RECEIVED GARRETT AT Pro

Have only performed bench......then Test-Garden......with the new Garrett AT-Pro.

On the bench......the AT Pro is astonishing. . . . both in the department of overall depth. . . . and with tiny gold jewelry (not micro-jewelry). This unit....on the bench....... is nearly identical in performance (in many respects)......as compared to the F75 LTD.

BUT.......in the test-garden.......some problems encountered. Actual 'acquired' depth performance.......the unit will only acquire a dime to a max depth of 10" in Florida inert soil. Same performance as ACE 250.

Three problems encountered:

1. Same problem as Keith Southern. Holding coil in the air.....detector is silent. Sweeping coil in the air......detector is silent. Rotating wrist....'wrist wiggle'.......and unit falses (quite a bit). Tapping coil......detector is silent. Tapping coil wire......detector is silent.

2. Bumping coil on small sticks......and unit will 'false'.

3. Responses to a 8" deep dime.
a). When coil has a 2" - 3" air-gap above the ground..... the AT Pro will acquire the dime.....and with very good ID.
b). When coil is on the ground.....with minimum air-gap......this 8" deep dime will ID as 'iron'.

It is my initial speculation that 'coil shield paint' is at fault. It appears that it is indeed 'applied' to the coil............yet, may be of the wrong type.......and/or improper/inconsistant application. ---- This would be congruent with ALL of the errors incurred. In other words.....if this ONE problem were to be resolved.......I believe ALL problems (thus far) would be corrected.

So far......there are TOO many attributes to this unit so as to NOT 'write-it-off'.....thus far. The shield paint issue may (currently) be a show-stopper; BUT.......once resolution acquisition is ascertained.......it'll be a formidable performer in the real world; allbeit......not quite up-to-par with T2/F75......but a VERY serious $600-range unit.

One feature immediately in the forefront; the high end of the iron range......gives a dual-freq audio response (vs a single low-tone - or - single high-tone). Important for unmasking.....and important for relic hunters.

Unit gives typical/expected tripple-beep......whilst passing coil over shallow targets. . . . just like T2/F75 elliptical DD coil.

MUCH more testing to follow.............with expectations of coil shield paint to possibly be a show-stopper.

Will advise.

Tom

As always, thanks Tom for your analysis. Look forward to more evals in the future.
HH,
Bunker

Keep us in the loop Tom.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

everywhere I hunt is overgrown to some extent and the falsing causes a lot of headache's....

Glad someone else has seen the issue,,,I think everyone is seeing the twisting false so it's a universal problem...

You are the first to see what I see on the twig falsing..

Check some small nails close to the coil and see if they High tone....lay them N/S and Sweep E/W...could it be the shield causing this?

I hope it is something like the shielding that can maybe be resolved....

The audio is in a league of it's own for sure in a digital machine....

good report Tom

Keith

Good report Tom and also Keith.
Tom, have you made Garrett aware of this issue, and if so what was their response.

Thanks again
Tom

Tom did you ever notice this with the F75 LTD?


b). When coil is on the ground.....with minimum air-gap......this 8" deep dime will ID as 'iron'.

It seems to me that Garrett needs to fix all of these problems and respond! Fisher had its problems but always took care to them. It just shows how you can shoot yourself in the foot if you are not careful. I saw how fisher started to sell their new units to new users and how the LTD and their other machines did more then we thought could be done. But Garrett may be making a big mastake and their sales may never take off. I will read more of Tom's testing to see how it compairs to the LTD but for me right now the LTD and the G2 are my main hunters. We have different ground then Tom so I always think of that when I read info on this forum. But Tom can test like no one else and he knows in is area what works to find him even more history or is just another machine with a new twist..

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

"Rotating wrist....'wrist wiggle'.......and unit falses (quite a bit)"
I'm not sure why this would be a problem. I assume you are noting it as a symptom, along with other symptoms, to ascertain a problem.

"Bumping coil on small sticks......and unit will 'false'."
This would certainly be a problem for me...

"3. Responses to a 8" deep dime.
a). When coil has a 2" - 3" air-gap above the ground..... the AT Pro will acquire the dime.....and with very good ID.
b). When coil is on the ground.....with minimum air-gap......this 8" deep dime will ID as 'iron'."
That is just weird and I do not like the sound of it because I am not going to remember to hold the coil 2" off the ground all the time and this charistic may change with different size targets of different metals at different depths as far as I know.

"with expectations of coil shield paint to possibly be a show-stopper"
Could you give me a for dummies explaination of 'coil shield paint' ?

Thanks Tom for all your help!!

Julien

Mark; The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen prototype T2's had 'microphonics' with the coil wire....and a minor shield paint issue. Fortunately, the public did not ever see this problem; hence.....the definition of 'prototype'. There were...........for some reason..........a small handful of bad coils that were released to market......for both the T2 & F75. I believe.......by now.......all of these coils have been returned/resolved. With the 1st & 2nd Gen proto of the T2 with the coil microphonics.......the end resultant were exactly the same as this AT Pro is encountering. I seem to recall Troy Gallaway sending me a pair of X5's.......with shield paint issues. About 100 bad coils made it to market.......and......at the expense of Troy........they were warranty replaced.

The F75, F70, T2's.......do not have this problem with the coil scrubbing the ground. For that matter........very few......if any detectors have this problem........lest we disregard the first few prototypes.

In a nutshell; Shield Paint is nearly a requirement so as to prevent the detector from being TOO reactive to the ground. There's a plethora of other reasonings.......dealing with physics/electronics......that would bore you to death.

Yes; 'symptoms' help ascertain troubleshooting resolution. The more data input......the easier for resolution acquisition.

I still think there is a independent/solo problem......causing all of these symptoms.
I also believe that Garrett will instantly seek resolution. They have a proverbial new jet fighter fully ready......but has a flat tire. I don't think they will discard their new airplane........and their long-standing hard-bought customer base. They have been in business too long.......by no accident. The only thing 'new' is the fact that they 'happened' unto a epiphany of 'real-world' conditions; subsequently, culminating into the design of this AT Pro..........a somewhat dramatic departure from their traditional platforms.

I will perform a real-world hunt with AT Pro within the next 48 hours. Unbiased.......no-spin zone...fashion.

Tom

You know, when I win the lottery... I am going to have a couple of large dumptruck loads of N GA dirt sent to you so you can work your testing magic in both Florida ground and in red clay without driving far. I will go buy a ticket tomorrow. It would be money well spent IMO. I appreciate all the work you do, it benefits ALL of us! No doubt.

Thanks Tom!!

Julien

It would certainly appear that any potential purchaser of the AT Pro would be very well served waiting till Garrett addresses these issues that Tom & Keith are talking about.-----Really appreciate you guys input & Tom, we will be looking forward to your further tests/evaluation of this detector.------Del

tom!..this has GOT to be a different garrett!
unchartered territory with a "black" garrett!
keep an "open" mind,anything's possible!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Recently completed extensive field-testing. Shocking results......in my eyes. Took it to a nearly worst-case scenario iron infested relic hunt site. The unit is truly cross-between T2 and Omega. Hunted exclusively in Pro-Zero mode with no Disc. no notch, no iron Disc, iron audio and max Sens. Hunted behind F75 LTD. Unit is NOT deeper than F75 ...... due in part to (most probably) one engineering design flaw with coil shield paint. When/if this can be resolved.......this unit is a top-end unit.....at a $600 price range.

1) Pinpoint is extremely accurate.
2) Unit is very noisy in carpets of nails (as to be expected).....yet has extremely accurate ID of these nails......read = minimal falsing.
3) Although coil EM footprint is a bit wider than Fisher elliptical DD coils......giving the illusion that it will not separate adjacent targets quite as good as the Fishers.......it is in the audio that will make up for some lost separation.
4) Audio is completely different from Fisher/Tek units; yet, highly intelligible.
5) If good non-ferrous targets are at shallow and medium depths......the AT Pro will 'match' (but not exceed) the F70/F75/T2 in target separation abilities. This is what is the most surprising. Once the audible (foreign) language is understood.......the performance results are exceptional.
6) ID of non-ferrous targets in the iron is (not perfect)...... but exceptionally accurate........matching.......possibly exceeding the Fish/Tek units.
7) No plastic locking collar on the shaft to dry-rot and crack.
8) Pinpoint audio is difficult to understand...... because most targets go to 'full audio' as long as the target is somewhere underneath the coil.....regardless of being centered under the center of the coil; subsequently, requiring the operator to 'detune' each target.....in order to pinpoint. A 'climing audio pitch' (VCO) would remedy this problem.
9) Unit will not find targets behind a F75 beaten hunt field; yet, will 'match' target separation......as long as the good targets are not too deep.....unto which......the T2/F75 will 'trump'. Once again....... if coil issue can be corrected..... this will change the playing field.
10) Unit is nearly unhuntable in Standard mode.....due to TOO many iron/steel objects audibly reading 'good target' (ie high-tone...or mid-tone).
11) Unit may look toy'ish....or cheap.....but the electronic engineering is not.
12) The hair-splitting deliniation/differentiation "fine-line" between iron ID vs very small foil is exact. Very small foil ID's as '40'..... which is correct/exact.
13) Confidence factor of hunting with this unit is top-notch.
14) On this unit.......small/shallow nails did not report as high-tone. Plenty of very short audio duration high-tones whilst hunting carpets of nails......but easily ignored. F75/F70/T2 have this same nuance. In carpets of nails......pinpoint could never be invoked.....as to be expected; yet, short-stroke coil sweeps over desired target is prefered and extremely accurate.

Outta time......more to follow,

Tom

Superb report, Tom! Your analytical ability and thoroughness always makes your field tests the most anticipated of all. And your lack of agenda towards any manufacturer makes your observations unquestionably trustworthy.

If the coil shielding paint is causing the negative problems as you speculate, I'd be very surprised if Garrett doesn't address and correct the problem in short order.

A top-of-the-line detector priced under $600 is a potential market-changer. Add in the fact that it's waterproof as well as its reputed audio ability to accurately ID bottlecaps with a DD coil, and this detector looks very promising indeed.

Regardless of hunting locations, anyone like me who hunts in the drizzle and light rain should be able to appreciate the advantages of a waterproof detector. Control box cover-ups are a pain to use.

Jeez Tom, couldn't Garrett have saved themselves a lot of problems and unnecessary expense by just sending you a prototype unit in the first place?

Thanks Tom, appreciate that you are looking into this unit. Its flat iron tone ID interests me a good deal for searching iron-ridden mining camps.

It would be interesting to learn what kind of sensitivity this unit has on gram size and less targets. Say as compared to the F75 original model in JE mode. Thanks for anything you might advise if you can find the time to test some small targets. Right about now I imagine your time is at a premium.

Its been an enjoyable, interesting year following the forum Tom.

Merry Christmas and all the very best in the New Year to you and everyone here.

Jim.

Tom,

Some referenced this forum and this coil problem on another board. I cannot quote verbatim but someone replied that this behavior is charteristic of Garrett coils, that the GTI coils will also false if scrubbed along the ground, and that they are designed to be swung an inch or two off the ground. I took it with a grain of salt. I don't remember who said it but i'm sure someone will or I can probably find it.. in any case from their "Garrett user" POV this coil behavior is correct.

It will be interesting to see how Garrett responds if the issue gains momentum.

Julien

You're right about the GT Garretts, Julien. When I had the GTP1350, the manual and the cheesy instructional video said to swing with about an inch air gap.

I feel as if I am not articulating my words enough........mostly due to; lack of time. Here's a bit more:

I am a coil scrubber. Albeit lightly; yet, it is paramount to follow the contour of the ground. If you do not follow the contour of the ground......many different types of soils would require a 'pf' mode (ploughed field). This is not a concern in inert dirt Florida; so.....the primary reason would be to get the coil closer to the deeper targets. Irrefutabily CRITICAL! ... Suffice to say; I would not have 70% of my relics......if I were to lift the coil 2" above the ground and miss the 2" deeper targets. Most areas we hunt.... are beat to death by other hunters (requiring deeper technology).......in addition to the fact that the older targets are deep. I cannot accept..............nor am I physically capable of precisely articulating the coils altitude-and-3D-attitude......to/at a specific height above the ground.....at all times.

Right now, my intent is NOT to teach you how to set up....or hunt with the AT Pro; rather, present a as-close-to-perfect real-world "capabilities/limitations" data log. Brent Weaver and Vaughan Garrett may wish to use this as 'data input' for shield-paint application paradigm shift. With confidence........if this one issue can be resolved (via paradigm shift).....Garrett would then have a world-class unit to offer......for the first time.......and in a $600 package. It would be neck-n-neck with Minelab Explorers, F75s, T2's etc...........

The AT Pro operates in such a fashion so as to have the iron handling capabilities of the Omega.......with all the features of the T2. Extremely/uncanny familiar. YET............it is in the audio presentation that is a dramatic departure..........a tangential differential.............that sets this unit into a different playing field. A welcomed playing field.

The oweners manual ALSO sounds 'uncanny' familiar. If you read it..........you will see why. Well written; well orchestrated.

Outta time again!

Tom

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel as if I am not articulating my words
> enough........mostly due to; lack of time. Here's
> a bit more:
>
> I am a coil scrubber. Albeit lightly; yet, it is
> paramount to follow the contour of the ground. If
> you do not follow the contour of the
> ground......many different types of soils would
> require a 'pf' mode (ploughed field). This is not
> a concern in inert dirt Florida; so.....the
> primary reason would be to get the coil closer to
> the deeper targets. Irrefutabily CRITICAL! ...
> Suffice to say; I would not have 70% of my
> relics......if I were to lift the coil 2" above
> the ground and miss the 2" deeper targets. Most
> areas we hunt.... are beat to death by other
> hunters (requiring deeper technology).......in
> addition to the fact that the older targets are
> deep. I cannot accept..............nor am I
> physically capable of precisely articulating the
> coils altitude-and-3D-attitude......to/at a
> specific height above the ground.....at all
> times.
>
> Right now, my intent is NOT to teach you how to
> set up....or hunt with the AT Pro; rather, present
> a as-close-to-perfect real-world
> "capabilities/limitations" data log. Brent Weaver
> and Vaughan Garrett may wish to use this as 'data
> input' for shield-paint application paradigm
> shift. With confidence........if this one issue
> can be resolved (via paradigm shift).....Garrett
> would then have a world-class unit to
> offer......for the first time.......and in a $600
> package. It would be neck-n-neck with Minelab
> Explorers, F75s, T2's etc...........
>
> The AT Pro operates in such a fashion so as to
> have the iron handling capabilities of the
> Omega.......with all the features of the T2.
> Extremely/uncanny familiar. YET............it is
> in the audio presentation that is a dramatic
> departure..........a tangential
> differential.............that sets this unit into
> a different playing field. A welcomed playing
> field.
>
> The oweners manual ALSO sounds 'uncanny' familiar.
> If you read it..........you will see why. Well
> written; well orchestrated.
>
> Outta time again!
>
> Tom

I understood you Tom. I too am a light coil scrubber and also would not physically be able to, for an entire hunt, hold the coil off the gound... nor would I care to.

I was just trying to add some input. I appreciate your honest and fair reports on your testing. I hope Garretts does too, in any case if the AT sells like I think it will SEF will be offering a couple of coils soon enough.

You articulate your words and meanings very well. I may not though... laff.

Julien

Great review Tom. I posted it over at finds, really with the intention that it will help in Garrett looking at the very few faults of the unit. Most of the guys over on Finds are just fans of particular detectors and very few of them get critical with their units. The policy of not comparing units at the sponsored forums at finds adds to that lack of criticalness.

Keep up the good work.

Posting Tom's input on Finds is like opening a can of worms I asked why the designer doesn't post an answer to some of the concerns that users have...and I didn't make a lot of new friends....Wow

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I was about to respond to one guys post bashing Tom's review and after considering the source, decided what's the use. HH jim tn

That thread turned pretty funny over at Finds. Tom gave the AT Pro a pretty damn good review and that one guy was talking about a lawsuit. LOL
It's really hard to believe some people are so attached to a brand like that.

If Tom had posted a tough review I wouldn't have posted it. My intention was to bring a problem to their attention. Most were receptive.

Some people are not reporting problems with coil wobble and the other things mentioned, and that is odd.
Something to consider is that perhaps Garrett designs coils like this as a person mentioned they recommended holding the coil 1 or 2" above the ground in their manuals.

To be fair, I'm sure there are some Fisher people on this board who would react similarly. Maybe not threaten a lawsuit, though. I've never seen that.

with Garret coil's....doing some sleuth work I have come across other instances of the same type problem on the other Garrett machine's...

Might be back down to having to reduce the sens down less than half in certain environ's...

I said from the get go it was a noisy machine and the reason was the falsing from vegetation ....Can you work around it? yes

But it could be so much more with a proper coil..

I remember getting a S.E.F. butterfly coil and it did the exact same thing on an MXT...and did it when hitting twig's and coarse grass....I worked with it but now that I have used other S.E.F. coil's I know it was a bad coil.. it ran but falsed when rocked or encountered vegetation ....

Keith

ALL detectors have pros & cons... that's just the nature of the beast. I for one appreciate the fact that Tom does a no non-sense report of any brand detector's performance. We need this to understand and gain knowledge of the capabilities that can be achieved while detecting in "real world" conditions. I admit that I am mostly a lurker here (and other sites) mainly due to being new to detecting and still learning the hobby. I understand that it usually leads to bickering and degrades the thread. I remember a thread here that was borderline reaching that point but Tom left it go in the name of "debate". I like that Tom's only real rule is be truthful with your findings. Everyone here has a mutual respect for Tom and his honesty and I think it shows by the respect in everyone's posts. So... Thanks Tom and thanks everyone for keeping this professional and fun!

Schultzie

If resolution is ascertained with (suspected) coil/shield-paint issue............Garrett will have another familiar problem; that being.......the AT Pro will sweep the sales of all of their top-end detectors they produce. The ACE-250 did this...... in somewhat similar fashion. A little (and easy to use) $200 detector that has such serious performance...... it gives the VERY expensive GTI-1500 & GTI-2500 a run-for-the-money...........and ................ for that matter...........MANY other detectors, regardless of brand. Once again; it MAY look "toy'ish"...... but it's a tremendous performer in it's class (and beyond)......for only $200. NEVER assume: "higher cost = better performance". And NEVER assume YOUR brand......is always the best. Always keep an open mind.

For my applications; it just so happens that the F75 LTD is THE trump-card for my types of Florida hunting. I own a Minelab Exp for dark red (lateritic/magnetite) soils just North of Florida............and I run a AquaStar-II for the beach. I am "PERFORMANCE" particular. . . . and NOT "brand" particular. . . . . to make a point.

Yes, I would like to see this one small problem corrected with the AT Pro. I "push" for excellence and ALWAYS promote technological advancements.......with welcome/open arms.

I still have more testing I want to perform with the AT Pro.

Will advise.

Tom

Tom, well you are on to something because they just posted some GTI-2500 depth numbers verse the AT Pro and the AT Pro won.

I wonder if they (and manufacturers alike) can still make a good profit (or maybe better) on the mid priced units anyway? That said, I do wonder if Garrett will come out with a higher priced unit next year, in part for the reason you mentioned and also because it's about time.

BTW - Cooler heads have prevailed over at Finds, it's amazing how many people came to your defense. Well, it's not really amazing! I'm glad that happened as my intention with the posting was just to bring to their attention a potential issue and of course share with them a review by a very experienced detectorist. Keep up the good work.

Fact of the matter is........................... This forum 'gets things done'. More than meets the eye. This is ..... in no way 'bragging'..... that's never the intent; yet, some end resultants (end products) are the true technoligical advancements ..... suaded from (collectively) ... all of our experiences and requests on this forum; a direct resultant of NO sponsors. This IS the intent. We can 'better the breed'......because: "follow-the-money-trail" is non-existent on this forum (ie sponsors).

I will (forever) be misinterpreted by some folks, creating bent-feelings. And if one persons view is not exactly the other persons view...... this differential is subject to criticism. And if 95% of a paragraph is 'positive'............ it's not uncommon for some folks to focus on the 5%... in question. I missed what other folks may have said...... yet, I wonder if anyone has test-garden tested Garrett units on somewhat fringe targets...... to see how these targets ID with the coil (nearly or) lightly scrubbing the ground.......then with the coil a few inches above the ground. If different types of Garrett units show ID accuracy differentials/deltas; then, the problem is/has-been a long-running issue.

.......Most companies like to know their anomalies.......especially the 'easy-fix' ones. If they can better the breed in short order....... more of the piece-of-the-pie (money on the table) can be had.

I speculate that the sales numbers of the GTI-1500 and GTI-2500 are not too good anymore. So.......this is to say...... the AT Pro should be a big hit..... and for a long bell-curve continuum. A well-deserving product will naturally pan out.

Jim H. = Do you..... by chance...... have a (very close to) 1.00 gram gold nugget that I can purchase from you for a 'test-standard' calib tool? It has become quite obvious that it IS a very necessary tool.

Tom

I'm double posting the following as I should have posted it hear to begin with.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Either way it's not the deepest and it's not the
> fastest but it's a good combo unit...

You know, they seemed to do a pretty good combo though. The early reports clearly show excellent depth. Now, what I don't think I've seen mentioned is that a bit of that depth is due to that new coil. It is bigger than it looks due to how they flattened the top and bottom of the DD coil. REALLY GOOD IDEA. The recovery speed (from watching videos and reports) seems to be moderately fast. The extra power of this unit (more than one person has brought up the T2) coupled with the new coil and decently fast recovery speed really seem to work well.

I think to get maximum depth you will have to be patient and learn the sounds. I really wonder how machines like the F75/T2 get such good depth while having such fast recovery speeds as usually the two don't go hand in hand. (Also that French Deus I mentioned gets excellent depth and also is lightning fast - but adjustable there). I think Tom mentioned before about the former machines having a lot of juice pumped into them. (Sorry for the non scientific interpretation.)

Will be interesting to see how the "problems" are resolved and what the competition releases next year. Clearly the AT Pro can take sales away from the f75 and T2 so I hope this is inspiration for Mr. Johnson ;-)