RECEIVED GARRETT AT Pro

that the newest off assembly Line At-Pro's are different from the first run's.....have they fixed the coil? Not sure but the next one that is available to my source I have gotten permission to check it out for the issue..

that's all I know as of now..

I do know I ham hearing report's of some unit's not falsing !!!

Could be good new's


Keith

Please do keep us posted ....Thanks, Jim

Jim - Being "smart" trumps being "right"

Although Tom inspired me to use the word trumps, I came up with that saying on my own some time back. And it applies so often in metal detecting as well as life in general.

Being "right" would be to continue saying that since Garrett doesn't consider this an issue, I'm not going to send in my coil for replacement.

Being "smart" would be to send the coil in and let Garrett replace it.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to send the whole detector in and risk having the detector desensitized in the name of stability, although by not sending in the entire detector you risk not getting any other stealth "improvements" Garrett might make to their original units that are sent in.

But there is very little downside to sending the coil in for replacement. Garrett is known for fast turnaround, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are willing to send you a prepaid shiipping label to send the coil in. The worst that could happen is that you'll get a new coil and still have the same issue.

Keith Southern has established his integrity in my book. His recent post reaffirms my thinking that there is a good likelihood that Garrett is going to quietly fix this issue on new detectors, and quietly fix the issue for those who send in their falsing units.

You could argue that Garrett should admit they have an issue publicly and offer to fix the problem for everyone, and you'd be right. But, in addition to economic considerations, Garrett is also in a position of needing to save face if they are correcting something that they said wasn't an issue. Hence, only doing the repair for those who say they have the issue... thus allowing Garrett to say they are correcting an isolated issue encountered on a small number of the early units.

From Garrett's standpoint, remember that most people on the forums are saying this isn't a problem for them. Or at least not admitting it's a problem.

Whatever happens, Jim, I wish you good luck. I appreciate your honesty on posting this problem and sticking to your guns despite the considerable heat you've taken from many who are less forthright than you. I have a strong feeling that you (and Tom's opinion as to what is causing the problem) will be on the correct side of "history".

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that the newest off assembly Line At-Pro's are
> different from the first run's.....have they fixed
> the coil? Not sure but the next one that is
> available to my source I have gotten permission to
> check it out for the issue..
>
> that's all I know as of now..
>
> I do know I ham hearing report's of some unit's
> not falsing !!!
>
> Could be good new's
>
>
> Keith


Keith - I know many detectors use the date of manufacture in some way on the serial number. If you find after testing that the new ATPro does not have the falsing issue, would it be possible (assuming Garrett utilizes the manufacturing date on the serial number) that you could let us know the manufacturing date of the corrected unit?

Marcomo ,

Thanks for your reply ....It's funny that I am reading this just after sending an email to a buddy in the UK ......I was telling him about Keith getting a newer edition but was not sure if it was a coil or an entire machine .......I told this gentleman that the newer edition is SUPPOSE to now not false ....I then commented to him that this would be a very smooth move on the part of Garrett as they would NOT have to admit problems, and for the folks like me who scream bloody murder , will get a machine or a coil that does not false ...... The thing that still bothers me is the fact that all the guys who fought me tooth and nail , and labeled me a trouble maker , have defended the old machine and will STILL be happy working with it , simply becuase they were told that it was the way the coil works and that it's normal .... Pretty much what you just said , and I said the same thing BEFORE I read your post !!.... I guess I shouldn't be too upset because actually , they are happy with what they have .....and hopefully so will I .....Just so you know , Garrett did offer FIRST to have me send in the coil , and then wrote back asking me to send in the entire machine .....THAT thru up a red flag to me ..... There is a manual ground balance and I don't see any reason why a GOOD coil that is designed for the electronics of all AT Pro's would need any type of work to be done to the control head ..... My thinking is that it could be one of two reasons that they want the entire machine ...
1) They might want to calm the machine's Sensitivity down ( dummy it down ) so that the coil does not false as much ......OR
2) By sending in the entire machine, they could say that their was an issue in the control box , and they coil was fine .....This religuishes any admission that the coil was in fact bad !!.....

In reality , the grounds that I am hunting , I could even afford to have this machine set up even HOTTER !!..... If I am in a noisy area ( highly mineralized ) all I have to do is to go down a couple of notches to quiet the machine down ..... I would LOVE to have this machine set up so that I would have to go down a good 1/2 way on the notches to quiet it down ....This way , I can run a much higher sensitivity on sand or ground that has great conditions and hope for even MORE depth !!.... A well built coil that does not false , will allow for this higher sensitivity !!...... and again , this will be the machine that everyone will look to !!.... I'm pulling for Garrett to do the right thing with this , and hope that they sell MILLIONS of them ....The machine has so much potential that it's not funny ....I'm not writing it off yet .....Thanks again for your post .....Jim

Keith ,
Are you getting an entirely new machine, or are you getting a new coil ? ......Thanks, Jim

You are on the right track......and........so far......it (appears) all is going in the (human predictable) direction.

I'll repeat this again: Garrett will have a World Class unit ....if this minor problem is resolved. This will have a revolutionary impact of extreme order-of-magnitude....for the corporate entity. Things like this can turn a 'small' entity.......into 'medium'.....(or larger).........possibly even NYSE status. It is THAT important....and far-reaching. Never underestimate.

As far as......detuning a detector when returned to factory; yes, this is possible......but doubtful. A corporate entity wants the 'mouths' of the product......to "profess/advertise".

And the new Fishers/Teknetics DO INDEED allow 'overdrive' with these new units. It is SO easy for Joe Public to get into trouble......by wanting to overdrive the unit......right out of the box. FTP realizes WHOM the target audience is....with their top-end units (usually quite skilled/seasoned detectorists).....and does realize that 'some' folks will get into trouble with the overdrive feature ((and some will not))........but they also realize that......in time..... the major attributes of having the ability to 'overdrive' a unit.....will eventually be publically learned. (and then 'touted'). Word-of-mouth is one of the best methods of PR.

((( Hence the importance of peer-reviewed///white-sheet accurate-data forum ))).

Great article guys! I really Like the "idea" behind the AT. Hope it gets fixed!. Could be GREAT!
Bart,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2011 02:36PM by Stoopstroop.

Stoopstroop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great article guys! I really Like the "idea"
> behind the AT. Hope it gets fixed!. Could be
> GREAT!
> Bart,
> [www.bigboyshobbies.net]

Is that your website? It says at the bottom "My sponsors" and lists FINDS! What a coincidence ;-) And Welcome...

Yes it is my site! Need a good Fisher or Tek?? lol.. glad to see you here too!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2011 02:34PM by Stoopstroop.

Stoopstroop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes it is my site! Need a good discounted Fisher
> or Tek?? lol.. glad to see you here too!


ehehe. I'm in Germany and still have to pay a hefty VAT tax. Then if it needs servicing I'd have to send it all the way back to you (and I've had my Omega in twice - needed the sensitivity board or something like that replaced. But the unit is VERY strong.) I had a T2 before my Omega and bought it used via Finds actually. Was like new and paid 500 bucks! That was shortly after they came out, but any problems had been resolved. (V6). Had that T2 for 3 year without a problem at all, but I sold it as after one weekend with the Omega I found the Omega to be better on coins (definitely not better on relics).

I have a feeling the AT Pro might be deeper than my Omega and the Omega is deep. Will be interesting to see Monte's deeper review, hopefully it's released soon but as of now I can't find it.

So, what do you think of those FTP rumors of a new machine? :-)

Rumor's are like butter..... Everyone likes to spread them! ha ha

I think its all people wanting it to be true. I cant lie..... I like new machines too!! But my guess would be NO. You never know though....

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 02:37AM by TerraDigger.

I wonder what impact the AT "if when right" will have on Companies like Detector Pro and Tesoro? Comparing the Wader and Tiger Shark to the AT. One has to wonder the impact.

I will be sending my AT Pro back to Garrett as soon as I get the OK from them ....I was hoping to hear something from Keith about the "newer " machines as to whether they false or not .....Out testing today and comparing

1) E Trac
2) Excal
3) AT Pro
4) CZ-21

It was not a scentific test ....It was a test to set up each of these machines that we own , and set them up the way would normally set them up for a beach hunt ......Ground balancing , Noise balancing , etc .....Whatever was needed to start hunting comfortably ...... There was a gold womans wedding ring with diamonds in it ...... Each machine was tested and would register this ring in an air test , so we knew that each machine was capable of hitting it .....The ring was tied to a string and pulled up and inch at a time to see how well the machines would hit it ...... Just for giggles , how do you guys think this test turned out ? ......Give me the order you think these machines hit this ring from the best #1 , down to the worst #4 ......Thanks, Jim

I'm moving this to it's own thread .....Thanks , Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 11:59PM by synthnut.

What machines get more than 10 inches on a dime?.........

In an air-test?

SECOND LIFE/RESURRECTION of GARRETT AT Pro.

Keith, I have received your AT Pro. Assembled unit, bench-tested and test-garden tested this ATP.

Looks like the shield-paint/shielding issue is resolved. The coil can (now) be lightly scrubbed......and deep targets no longer ID as 'iron'. This major issue is now resolved. I do not care what the original issue was; rather, the fact that it has now been corrected. Wiggling the coil in the air.......and there is (no longer) the chatter/feedback issue.....as before. Correcting this one problem seems to have resolved many issues. (((There's a catch))).

Next; It is quite obvious that IN-DIRT overall depth performance has also improved. It'll acquire (with max performance settings invoked).... a 11-1/8" deep dime and with correct ID......with very little air-gap forgiveness. This is to say.....the coil does need to be lightly scrubbed.

In the test-garden..........it is obvious that the performance of this unit is greater than a standard T2.......and nearly parallels the performance of a original/standard F75. Real-world testing will commence in the near future.

Some interesting notes:
There is a tremendous performance gain on HI conductors when Grnd Bal is lowered.
There is a tremendous performance gain on LOW conductors when Grnd Bal is raised.
The largest delta/differential that I have ever witnessed on any production unit.

Now...........with this unit in a (corrected status) high-powered/higher bench-mark..........the next err is exposed. I can not run the Grnd Bal below '70'.......otherwise ground chatter AND......MORE INTERESTINGLY......"AIR" CHATTER is excessive. Keith.............can you take your other (corrected) AT Pro..........lower Grnd Bal to ......say...........around 20 - 50 and wiggle the coil in the open air? I'd like to know if you incur the same err.

Now to answer your question...

I have tried the other corrected one in the past with Ground Balance way low like in the 30's and it would not false when twisted or pick up chatter..I will redo the test again...I am at work now so it will be after midnight before I can get it done..But I don't remember there being problem..

I do know when I move the G.B around I can start to pick up air chatter/noise if I am close to a source of such thing;s that create noise like Broad band...and I can manipulate it back out with the G.B..But in the wood's I have not encountered this...


Yes the machine has a strange Ground Balance system for sure....I run them at 72 G.B even in highly mineralized dirt...Seems to give the best depth on high and low conductor's at the same time at that range...

another weird thing is I dont remember seeing it ground grab lower than 70 in just normal type dirt even when the dirt is reading 50 on the F-75..now on the f-75 when the dirt read's like 85-90 the AT does too but when it drops low the AT will get in the lower 70's and settle out....


it will ground balance to large huge iron at 18-20 sort of like the salt water beach...

I am not completely sure this is a conventional G.B system?And believe it was more or less designed to run in the upper digit's or in extreme conductive environ's it automatically goes real low...





What does AT Balance at in your neutral dirt?

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2011 07:13PM by Keith Southern.

My test-garden dirt is SO inert........that NO detector will Grnd Bal. It is nearly the same thing as Grnd balancing to the air.

How deep will the F75 SE-LTD ID dimes in your test garden. Do you ever see up averaging where you hunt?

Thanks,

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

and here's my finding's... with iron disc set at 35...zero mode pro ...iron audio on....Sens Full...

At about 65 and below It will get some noise by twisting but I have to be very vigorous at it...it's not like it was on the first unit with a barely twist....
For the most part when it does make noise it's in the iron grunt ...with a high blip in the reversal of the twist....If I turn the iron audio off it is just an high blip at the same interval in twisting...

it will do this from about 65 on down to zero....

cant tell how it will run in my dirt...my dirt balances out at 92 so 65 it does bring in some ground falsing... 72 does not...




Are you getting ground feedback noise in you're inert dirt when G.Bal is below 70???? or just twisting???




Another thing....I noticed on the first machine before the coil issue was fixed is that the high conductor range was as hot at 80-90 G.B.as was the low conductor's

not saying the new machine is not very deep...But the first machine's before the fix was as hot on foil as a quarter as long as the target was the same size....

now to get the same depth you have to manipulate the G.Bal to get the same result's but then you are only super hot on one or the other conductor wise....thats why I like the 72 it a good trade off for high's and low's....


The Ground Balance system is unconventional for sure...

Not sure how it will do on the salt beaches since it has to be ran super low ??On dry ground as long as you stay above 65 -70 it is very stable...

very interesting Tom

Keith

I'm going to a salt beach today ....I'll report back tonight ......My guess is that to run a decent G.B. on this particular beach , I will have to GB somewhere around 18-20 in the wet sand ........ The dry sand wlll of course be much hiigher .....I'm going to run between 70 and 75 on the dry to see how I make out ..... If I remember correctly, I'm normally well GB'd in the 80's on this particular beach ..... As I said , I will report back ..... Jim

First real-world hunt with revised/2nd Gen AT Pro.

For the first time in history; Garrett finally has a 'professional' unit.....by today's standards. It is (technologically) generations beyond the GTI-2500.....or any other detector that Garrett produces. . . . . regardless of cost.

First and foremost; the most prominent/outstanding accolade of this particular unit ... that continuously presided...... is the fact that the unit is 'very confident'............IRT ID capabilities. In fairly trash-free areas......targets ID'd properly.....with high reliability. In highly (nail/iron) infested sites......the ID accuracy was still generations ahead of anything that Garrett has ever produced. In fact, it is one of the best I have ever witnessed....specifically in nail infested sites. My specific sites (due to iron decomposition status) dictated a Disc setting of '31' to 'just barely' handle/ID the iron. This is pushing it a bit......as......most folks would more-probably utilize a Disc setting of '32'. On several occasions......a non-ferrous target could be unmasked with a Disc setting of '31'. Raising the Disc to '34'.......and the non-ferrous target would go back to a 'masked' status. This is the exact same thing that happens with the F75, T2, MXT and plenty of other detectors. Welcome to the physics of Mother Nature.......of which.......is NOT brand-particular.

Off my chest:

I see absolutely no use for 'Standard' mode of operation. I tried to 'justify' all modes; yet, the best 'performer' mode was 'Pro - Zero' mode. Whilst in the 'Standard' mode.....that audibly elongated boing/bong coin-tone is disconcerting............especially when the coil is swept several feet PAST the target........and the elongated audio is STILL reporting.

This particular units pinpoint feature is much easier/better to use.....vs.....the 1st Generation. It may not be a increasing frequency audio report ... as you approach the target; yet, the increasing volume is a attribute. Pinpointing is extremely accurate.........as long as you are pinpointing one single/solo target..........and NOT a clump of close/adjacent targets......some of which may be Disc'd out. (Makes for a inaccurate pinpoint on the intended target).

The adjustable tone-break option is VERY beneficial.

Many times......in extremely nail-infested sites.......I utilized the 'iron audio' feature.............,,,,,,,,,,,,,turning it off & on many times. I developed a very high level of confidence in the units abilities whilst silencing the continuous iron audio output (yet, I prefer to know absolutely everything going on...underneath the coil).

In real dirt............on a real hunt.........I did not find this detector to be particularly deep ((certainly not a 'bp' boost-process mode)); yet, what was discovered........is.........as long as the good non-ferrous targets are within the 0" - 7" range..........in nail-infested sites............this AT Pro will 'match' the unmasking abilities of the F75; a major feat. Yes, there are a (less than 1%) few targets that the F75 will see.........that the AT Pro will not. On the contrary, the recriprocal also holds true; there are a few targets the AT Pro will see.......that the F75 will not acquire. ((( This was a major eye-opener to me ))). Considering the specific electromagnetic footprint of the AT Pro's' coil.......along with the microprocessors clock speed..........it's uncanny ability to adjacently separate extremely close targets.......is worthy of merit.

I question the AT Pro's operating frequency.......as it acts like a lower freq operating unit.......around the 6.8 Khz range.

Once the detector is set-up/config'd and ready to hunt...............the 'audio learning curve' is fairly rapid/easy. Yes, in iron infested sites........you will hear a fair amount of non-ferrous-tone snap/crackle/pop iron-falsing audio reports; yet, are fairly discernable from their more audibly elongated counterparts; that being real non-ferrous targets. Seems like this detector is somewhat desensitized to ferrous/iron targets (a welcomed attribute).

Never once did I run the Sens on any setting below max.

One particular area...............known for severe EMI.....................I deliberately hunted with the AT Pro. This specific scenario presented zero EMI issues with/to the AT Pro..........quite a welcomed/nice incursion. Yet...............(and truthfully ..to no surprise)..........depth capabilities were severely hindered.........unsuspectingly. A penny at 4" ... was nearly undetectable to the AT Pro. The detector was reporting a irratic target beyond 10". This is the worst type of EMI.....due to its UNSUSPECTING (blindsided) nature. The operator would NEVER know that his abilities are nearly 'ZERO'.

Still, I have no issues regarding the fact that the AT Pro is specifically designed without shaft (plastic) collar-locks. Shaft assy is not loose.

The amount, diameter and rate-of-twist of coiled headphone cord is good; yet a 6" - 8" straight-length of headphone cord could be added ....... on the headphone side........(NOT the connector end) of the cord; giving some additional length......unincarcerating the operator.

If Garrett were to make a $1200 version of the $600 AT Pro........it could easily surpass all others. This is how close to the top the AT Pro performs.

Yes, when Grnd Bal is adjusted to low numerical settings........the detector (in the air AND on the ground)........is audibly unstable.

I still have more testing to perform.

((( Side note for Tommy: The F75 LTD/SE will acquire a 12" deep dime in my test-garden ))).

Thanks Tom. I am also wondering if you are getting a correct ID on the 12" dime and if not, how deep can you ID a dime with the F75? I am asking because when hunting with the 11" coil I get some up averaging on a lot of targets that are fairly deep( 9" or more or really small target that are deep) but it could be the mild mineralization I have here.(consistantly 2 bars and sometimes 3)

Thanks again

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

It's a reliable high-tone......but VDI up-averaging is the case......on this 12" deep clad dime. It'll ID in the high 80's.

Would your test be different in bad ground? Would depth be better? How is it on small targets? The Freq is more like a 6.8Khz machine?

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I think tha one thing that we have to remember is that the soil is neutral where Tom is ....You can't even G.B. in soil like that ..... I'm sure that there is some added depth because of this, and the numbers will also change ..... I can't get anywhere near 12 inches on a dime unless I am at the beach , and even then it's a stretch ......if at all ...... The number that I will get when sweeping a dime is right around 81-82 ....... I know that many other folks were talking about smaller Gold being in the low 40's , where my smaller gold will start in the higher 40 's .....A small womans 14k gold ring with diamonds will read 53 on my machine ...... Mineralized ground SURELY chages the numbers as anytime you change your G.B. , your numbers will also change ...... Other than depth and numbers , so far I concur with Toms findings ..... Jim

Nice write up Tom, it's much appreciated and thanks for the unbiased testing, like you said in the other thread most of us are performance biased and it's refreshing reading both good and negative aspects of the machines when doing comparisons.

Great, detailed, informative information. Thanks!

Steve

Good read, thanks for the updated tests Tom.

I've been rearing to try a new machine, so far I think I'm going to get the Etrac. Nothing against the AT, but by all accounts it's not really doing anything more then the F75 I already have is (and is just as noisy apparently). Still I wouldn't mind taking one out for a weekend to see for myself