Public Perception Poll - White's Electronics & The MX Sport Update

Ok, big experiment here, so please take this seriously. I have the ear of a person at White's to whom I have expressed a few concerns. I am posting this here and on my forum [www.detectorprospector.com] only because both forums have knowledgeable, thoughtful members and no censorship of honest opinions. Let's live up to that here with some quality responses. Please, no bashing, and no people trying to sway things. Just honest opinions intended to be helpful to White's. If you have a problem, offer a solution.

The question at hand. Did White's do enough to notify people of the firmware issue? If you have an MX Sport, were you notified? if so, by who? White's directly? Your dealer? Or did you just hear about it on the forum or by word of mouth? Are you satisfied with how it is being handled? If you know about the issue, but are not sending in your unit, why not? Any other comments for White's?

I am going to point my contact at this. The goal here is to help White's with feedback via the power of social media. Let's show this forum has people worth paying attention to. Thank you in advance for any helpful feedback you may offer.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 02:21PM by Steve Herschbach.

I can't be of Help Steve I didn't buy one..

Maybe first time in along time I didn't ..LOL

Gut instinct..

But At least there Concerned about it !!

They Got the right Guy to do the Survery though!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Alright Steve,
Straight up,,I have never owned the MX Sport.

But before the detector was released Mr Howard was here posting talking about the detector-- which is all good btw.

But after this firmware problem reared its head,, and White's confirmed the problem in fact existed.

Where was Mr Howard or any other representative from White's --- to come here and give folks the straight scoop,, and maybe to answer questions folks had/have. Or to point folks to a central source of good information to help them. Granted a lot of this was linked here by me and others--- but would have been better had a rep from the company had done first hand.


Now I bring this up,,,Because the Makro representative Dilek,, she was here before Racer release,,,but after release and some coil ear and coil overload problems were being had by folks,,,she was here addressing,,,and many times even doing some of what I call in the weeds kinda work--- to get folks the help/ service they deserved.

I guess what I'm saying it seems White's could have been more "hands on" with this issue--- using metal detector forums.

Or maybe said this way,,if a rep is going to come here and talk when things are good,,,then they should come here and talk when things are not so good.

Did buy one new V3i detector once--- so do have stock in the company.

Cheers



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2016 09:15PM by tnsharpshooter.

I don't own an MX sport, however I was going to buy one... Was.... I've been a whites user since 1978.. Up until the last year or two I've owned a whites machine since 78.. But with what went on with the whites forum (moderator shutting down posts when you say there is a problem) .. The mx5 tone issues, putting new stickers on units saying new detector when really an older one with just new sticker.. Now the way they advertised the MX sport.. Dumb videos, never seen much real testing... Just the way things were handled with the issues ... They need someone to post on forums fairly regularly to ask questions and offer help.. I have no plans to buy any whites anytime soon.. My makro is awesome, customer service is amazing... My Fisher f75 is awesome and never an issue with FT customer service...

I heard about it reading your post on it. I was using it but had never used a whites, I may well had thought i was doing something wrong or it was suppose to work the way it was working. Im happy with it now it sure if a lot different, I payed to have it shipped but whites did take care of me on that end. took one day shy of 3 weeks to get it to them and back. Im fine with that.
I had said this in another post but or local dealer got 4 in the mail just a few days after all this came to light. I had said something to him he contacted whites about it and they said to him most people want notice a problem, I would of thought whites would of said send them back let me send 4 with the fix. why sell something knowing it could have a problem.

Steve I have one I bought used at a great price. Love the detector already and now is my only water machine, my other seven detectors are all land. I heard about callback on the forums also when transferring warranty with Mary at Whites, she said if I had any problems to let her know. ( SHE IS THE GREATEST ) I am waiting for repairs to slowdown at Whites before I send mine in. I was also hoping for a coil adapter as I have a M6 with all the coils. I know they have two new ones for the Sport but waiting for a 5.3" coil. I did buy the Whites waterproof headphones, sound not to bad.

Steve Herschbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, big experiment here, so please take this
> seriously. I have the ear of a person at White's
> to whom I have expressed a few concerns. I am
> posting this here and on my forum only because
> both forums have knowledgeable, thoughtful members
> and no censorship of honest opinions. Let's live
> up to that here with some quality responses.
> Please, no bashing, and no people trying to sway
> things. Just honest opinions intended to be
> helpful to White's. If you have a problem, offer a
> solution.
>
> The question at hand. Did White's do enough to
> notify people of the firmware issue?

No, I don't think whites has done enough to inform the people that bought one, what is going on.

> If you have an MX Sport, were you notified?

I have the MX Sport and no, I wasn't notified.

> if so, by who? White's directly? Your dealer? Or did you just
> hear about it on the forum or by word of mouth?

On your forum (Detector Prospector), I was doing a internet search to see if anyone else was having issues with the long tones, I thought
it might have been due to the large D2 coil, thought the smaller 6x10 coil might help, trying to find out before I ordered the smaller coil.

> Are you satisfied with how it is being handled?

Yes, other than a 3 to 5 week (or more) period that the machine will be in transit to Whites, get repaired and in transit back. Missing out on a lot of hunting time.

> If you know about the issue, but are not sending in
> your unit, why not? Any other comments for
> White's?

Constructive criticism, hard to say this as a long time Whites fan:

The last 3 machines that I bought from Whites all had issues new out of the box, V3i came new with a bad D2 coil, MX5 came new with pin point/tone issues, MX Sport now has tone issues.
Whites made each one right, but, 3 out of 3 new machines with issues? Whites needs to do better than that if they want to stay competitive.

Whites machines, when they have the bugs worked out are as good as any out there...
That is why I keep using them.

I will say Whites has the best customer service that I have seen, it is just that lately, I have been using it to often...lol

>
> I am going to point my contact at this. The goal
> here is to help White's with feedback via the
> power of social media. Let's show this forum has
> people worth paying attention to. Thank you in
> advance for any helpful feedback you may offer.

Just bought one. Haven't used it yet, it just came in so assuming it's got the later firmware. Very busy with work and kids, but just playing around in the yard I think I'm going to like it. Was aware of the update via forums and facebook. My dealer was completely unaware of the update, but that's not suprising.

The only thing I could suggest be done differently is make the dealers aware, but perhaps they did. Maybe notify people via email or something when they register about the upgrade, though with the exception of any sitting on shelves it shouldn't be a problem on future units. When time allows, I'll put it through its paces. Just sweeping over my test garden for a few minutes, its pretty deep, and I might add confindent on deep targets. It hits my 11", one year old minie ball. First machine I've had hit it in disc mode.

I did not buy one - There marketing was enough to put me off - let me correct that - their lack of professional marketing lacked professionalism - The product itself had issues & at this stage appears to offer nothing new to the metal detecting industry - I actually expected more from Whites considering their history however having a long and rewarding history in this industry appears to account for nothing except, loyalty from their existing customers -

" Any other comments for White's?"

My Whites history: My second detector i owned was a Spectrum XLT. Loved that machine but I was so young, I didnt know anything about detecting so i never used it to its maximum potential. I just recently sold a v3i which i had for a few months. It was the perfect machine if I didn't have a CTX already.

Mx Sport observations: I had my finger on the trigger and a pre-order in. I watched EVERY piece of video and read EVERY post about the Mx Sport, and I was ready, until...The mx5 vs mxt vs mx Sport video. As a detectorist, I have evolved so much so, I can tell what is what when metal detectors are concerned(Tooting my horn here) and I could tell that, this machine wasn't ready..

The tones, I believe you called it, "fruit salad"(a very appropriate term IMO), were such a turn off to me, that i was like, "no thanks". But it wasn't just that, it was the recovery speed that I didnt see, the field reports that i didnt see, and the display of it's features, that i didnt see as well. A product launch that was geared toward...IDK who, class clowns maybe?

A while back, I made a post about launching products in September to, "work out the bugs" before spring. No matter how you slice this, it would of been the correct choice as this would have been all history by now.

I do like the design of the Mx Sport. The display screen looks great and the water proofing is a great idea.

If it seems like I am bashing, im sorry but i am really not. As for what other type of feedback I could give to make Whites come out on top, that's a whole other post.

Steve, I do not own the MX Sport but decided to respond anyway. I have tried almost all the other White's detector and I purchased two V3i units because I did not give the first one enough time to learn what it could do.
I do not think that White's did anything that all the other major company's have as well.

Fisher did it with F75 upgrade. It took them a bit to realize that users had a real issue.

Garrett had issues with the AT Gold. I had a pre-release unit that was super hot and I was very impressed. Garrett contacted me and asked for the unit back due to a problem. The unit I received as a replacement was no where near as
hot as the first unit.

Now we have the new company's that are hungry for our business and they listen and respond. How they do in 10 years, we will have to wait and see. We judge all the rest by this new standard.

SO, sometimes they just need to wait and see... why respond if you do not have the solution.

I think that they are cutting the fat to stay competitive. The problem is the first to go is Quality Control. Why do you need them if you have a great track record? Well, they had something to do with that.....

I had rather have a slow response than the wrong or no response.

Tom in SC

I've been very interested in the MX Sport but have become weary of it because of problems discussed on all the forums. I see where old California had sent his in for upgraded and now has to send it in again I believe. For a lay person like myself, how do I know that I have purchased a unit that has the latest upgrades and I will I be notified in the future that something is not right.

Is there going to be serial number listing that shows which units have the latest upgrades and which new production units are free of defects.

It would be appropriate for whites to let their customers and prospective customers know what they have done to make sure all the defective units have been corrected and future production units are up to date.

I will never buy a whites

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I haven't bought an MX Sport YET. That was primarily due to seeing how they handle the tone issue and if it was really any better after the fix. I have seen a video or two of the new firmware version and I like what I saw and heard with it. I'm actually hitting some dealers up now to see if they have any of the new firmware models in stock. If so I am probably going to buy one in the next few days.

I will use the F75 DST upgrade as an example of what NOT to do. I and a few others here were some of the guys that had the bugged version after the upgrade: The weak all metal mode and the "momma" pinpointing bug. When we first started calling and emailing Fisher about it, they flat out refused to admit there was a problem, and if anything, they said it was a bad coil. I honestly believe if it hadn't of been for a few of the more vocal people on the forums and social media, making posts and videos, that they would still to this day be be denying there ever was a problem with it. I ended up speaking to 3 different people on the phone and got told 3 totally different things. Nobody out there knew what was going on and they for sure didn't have their ducks in a row. I THINK they eventually fixed the problem as a whole. I really don't know...that whole ordeal left a bad mark on them for me and I am very very hesitant to even consider another FT product for purchase because of this. If I do, it will be long after they have been on the market and any potential bugs already found and dealt with. In this case, some of the bigger Fisher dealers only found out about it through the forums and YouTube videos instead of from Fisher or their distributor.

As someone else said, Garrett has had its share of troubles with the AT series machines. Two of their bigger and well known staff members...Aqua Chigger and Nugget Noggin have both had several failures of their machines/products in the field and documented in their videos. In fact, it happened again in AquaChigger's recent video from the Thames River. His AT Gold went out on him and he had to resort to eyeball surface hunting. I'm sure they took good care of them but that doesn't help when people can watch the videos and see stuff like that.

The old saying holds true: the best customer service is the one you never have to use.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 10:09AM by Daniel Tn.

i just want to ad to what i said... yes all manufacturers have had some issues when releasing new detectors... alot of us were so used to whites having the best customer service that when whites started making some mistakes and losing employees and such made alot of us step back and think.. as long as i have used whites i felt like i deserved to be listened to when i had an honest problem.. instead i was told over and over that my mx5 was normal and there was no problem. calling whites customer service over and over,posting on the whites forum and having the forum moderator shut down threads and delete posts left a question with me as to why i buy whites machines.. then i went over to first texas products... my f75ltd2 had a momma bug... i called fisher customer service and he said post a video of what it was doing..i did and he called me back and sent me a return label... he also asked if i wanted mine fixed or a replacement and i chose replacement he said fine we will send a new machine out.. now i cant remember if anything was posted from fisher but im pretty sure news traveled fast and everyone got their machines repaired or replaced. i also had a slight issue with makro over a 5x10 coil ear breaking..i sent pics in and they emailed back that it was user error.. i was instantly mad.. knowing the stock coils had many ear issues and for them to accuse of breaking the ears on my other coil..not happy..my first thought was the whites issue and how difficult it was to convince them that there was a problem has come full circle to another company.. i did not want to go through that again.. But makro quickly made it right with me..they apologized and took good care of the situation.. plus i read alot of posts online and see how others are treated. i base my decision to buy on my experiences along with others experiences.. my feelings are if you send in a new but faulty unit for repair you should have a choice to receive a new unit or your repaired unit and if the repaired unit comes back still not right then it should automatically be replaced with new....

" I honestly believe if it hadn't of been for a few of the more vocal people on the forums and social media, making posts and videos, that they would still to this day be be denying there ever was a problem with it."

Excellent point!

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " I honestly believe if it hadn't of been for a
> few of the more vocal people on the forums and
> social media, making posts and videos, that they
> would still to this day be be denying there ever
> was a problem with it."
>
> Excellent point!

That's about the way I see it from everything I have read.
First time I saw the new MXS on line, sparked my interest.
My interest went downhill after that.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

I had one but got rid of it already. I did not like how the modulation worked or should I say didn't work. I know this point was brought up to whites but their answer was it don't work good in low mineralized soil. Really? The modulation on my CZ sure seems to work good in my soil.

Any other comments for White's? Yes, I think you need to get some more (different) testers. I know it was said you have your pros but maybe you should also let Tom or other people who are serious detectorist give you some feedback. I don't know how the MX Sport ever made it to release with the issues it had. Did the testers not notice these things? On a positive note, Whites does have the best customer service and you know if you have an issue they will get it resolved.

"I had one but got rid of it already."

Jeopardy style. Ready?

Death, taxes, and Bill S. selling detectors quickly.

Answer? What are three things you can count on in life?

I don't have one, was thinking about it but went for the R2 instead...

just a thought for White's....
apply a sticker to the unit/box that states the update was applied and when....
that would make it easy for a potential buyer to ask the dealer and
make sure he/she is getting an upgraded unit....

for folks in Canada it's an important point because of potential cross-border export/import issues
when detectors are returned for repair....like being forced to pay for import duty and taxes
for the unit in error....painful time consuming fight to get your $ back with the gov.....not fun...

This poll started because of perceptions. Specifically, mine was decidedly negative. I started with a negative perception and so I mentally filtered and focused on negative issues and reports supporting my negative view. In my mind White's had a major public relations issue they needed to be aware of. I gave a person at White's considerable heat over it in various ways.

Now, I am not so sure. I think most everyone is happy that White's is addressing issue. I still am not seeing much that tells me people really are getting notified efficiently, but how people are taking that seems mixed. There is of course the perverse "but everybody else does it" defense which strange as it seems does take the edge off it all. Seriously, how much heat should White's take over this given what we see in other quarters?

I don't know, but I do know one thing. Due to my long history with White's I think I am too emotionally invested in this whole thing, putting way too much time and effort into it, and seeing a trivial thing in life in terms far outweighing its true importance. Your comments have been very helpful in making me realize this, and I seriously think at this time I need to just walk away from all of it - and go metal detecting. That was my intent when I sold my MX Sport, and I need to follow through on it.

To the folks at White's I wish the best and hope that these threads provide some helpful insights. Do yourselves and us a favor however. The next one needs to be 100% right on release or have an ability to update via the internet. Preferably both.

I bought my first Whites in the last 1980's and have always thought the world of the company and their products. I personally don't have much trust in Whites these days and I am leery of buying their new products until I see a turn around. One of your original points is about how Whites is communicating and handling the issue. If someone does not frequent the correct forums and was not aware of the issue I think there is a very good chance they would never know about it prior to purchase. If I go to the Whites web site and look at the home page or the product page for the Sport I see nothing about the issue. I have zero information on knowing how to determine whether a given unit has been corrected and apparently neither do some of the dealers. I have to drill into their support forum to find a blurb from the "Super Moderator" (gag) which also includes the official response from Whites. In other words I do not think Whites is being very proactive in the issue. This is not a $200 detector so that also factors into the customer expectation. Like others have said I just think they have grown out of touch with the enthusiast customer base and are more concerned with mass marketing. I just think the company has already turned that corner. Good luck to them.

From Whites support here is the notice for those people that may not have seen it.





MX Sport Owner Firmware Update

We have updated the Sport firmware to address a concern related to audio on targets in close proximity. In some programs closely spaced targets will lock on as one long tone. This issue has been addressed and the resulting audio now sounds off for each target separately.

While the update will be especially helpful to experienced users, the current version's long-tone "lock-on" audio may be preferable for some users. Updating is at the user's discretion. If you aren't experiencing any problems with your MX Sport, no action is needed. All MX Sports manufactured after 3-24-16 will automatically have the latest firmware.

If you would like to have your Sport re-programed, here is how to return to White's at no cost to you:

•First, box up your Sport, preferably in the original box. Send the control box and search coil. Please include a note that says “FIRMWARE” in the box.
•If you have e-mail and access to a printer, e-mail sales@whiteselectronics.com and we will e-mail you a printable label. If you don't have access to e-mail, call us at 1-888-666-6121 and we will mail you the label.
•Affix the label to the box with clear tape. Drop off at a UPS Store or other UPS shipper.
•Once we receive your detector, we will reprogram it as quickly as possible and return via UPS to the same address. Normal turnaround is expected to be 1-2 weeks.

White's is handling this like the automobile manufactures "silent recall". They don't take a proactive approach and go looking to fix the MXSport. They wait until a customer has a complaint and only fix those. If everything was fine and dandy and may only be noticed by "experienced users" then why do ALL detectors manufactured after 3/24/16 have the new Firmware? Sure sounds like the detectors manufactured before 3/24 have a problem. And speaking of problems, how about the White's Forum moderated by that guy who has all the answers (you know who I'm talking about). That's not a forum it's a - You ask and the Moderator will answer, question and answer web page where nothing negative about White's is ever allowed so White's never gets to see a true picture of what the customers are saying or thinking about their detectors. That "forum" is a joke. The Moderator has over 47,000 posts. Where's he get the time to detect?

I will admit I Was all hung go until I heard the Modulated audio was almost non existent. And then the tone issue, so glad I waited. But I have a feeling there is something else down the road and will be waiting. Now if FT can ever come out with a updated CZ I would be dancin' in the street's!

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will admit I Was all hung go until I heard the
> Modulated audio was almost non existent. And then
> the tone issue, so glad I waited. But I have a
> feeling there is something else down the road and
> will be waiting. Now if FT can ever come out with
> a updated CZ I would be dancin' in the street's!


In my very limited testing Harold I think this may be part of the trade off with it being so confident on deep targets. I think they were trying to push the depth limits on this platform (again I've yet to actually hunt with it yet, Ive read some of the modes may behave a bit differently) Certainly understand your appreciation for the way modulation communicates though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 07:06PM by deadlift.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman,Ms. Lewensky".
Bubba

Tom Slick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> White's is handling this like the automobile
> manufactures "silent recall". They don't take a
> proactive approach and go looking to fix the
> MXSport. They wait until a customer has a
> complaint and only fix those. If everything was
> fine and dandy and may only be noticed by
> "experienced users" then why do ALL detectors
> manufactured after 3/24/16 have the new Firmware?
> Sure sounds like the detectors manufactured before
> 3/24 have a problem. And speaking of problems, how
> about the White's Forum moderated by that guy who
> has all the answers (you know who I'm talking
> about). That's not a forum it's a - You ask and
> the Moderator will answer, question and answer web
> page where nothing negative about White's is ever
> allowed so White's never gets to see a true
> picture of what the customers are saying or
> thinking about their detectors. That "forum" is a
> joke. The Moderator has over 47,000 posts. Where's
> he get the time to detect?


We'll,
Da fox,, where he lives,,,he starts about every response with, "In my sweet soil....

White's should consider having a mixed bag of mods,,,mods who live in areas with varying amounts of minerals in their soil.

A better overall picture can be painted by doing--- and certainly would,reduce the confusion some folks have,,, about why their detectors are doing what they do--- in the different locations around the country and the world.

White's also doesn't take advantage of the digital world enough,,, they need more videos,, like live digs,, and videos of their detectors being used in different venues.
Customers can help here,,, but manufacturer needs a lead role.

And I'm not talking about that little sand box it seems they have behind their shop either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 09:08PM by tnsharpshooter.

The MXT Sport was intriguing initially because I'm interested in waterproof beach/water detecting. But the White's company-produced videos that I saw initially appeared ad hoc, thrown together, focusing on things I don't care about (e.g., MXT or MX5). They failed to set the machine apart from the competition. If the strength(s) of the machine had been focused on and clearly demonstrated, honest testing performed, and serious in-depth look given to the functionality in different detecting scenarios, highlighting those strengths - then, assuming positive user reviews - I could be swayed to buy.

But, it appears a marketing ploy with detector companies is to show only silly bits and pieces of their new model. This is a big mistake. It is a failure to properly analyze your purchasing audience in terms of their likely detector usage and sophistication/knowledge level. Playing musical notes with the MXT Sport's audio is meaningless. Throwing a waterproof detector into the ocean is meaningless. Waving coins in front of the coil is meaningless. Doing a nailboard test in the only direction/orientation that is likely to work and/or unrepresentative detector testing is meaningless (and deceptive).

If White's (but not them only) want to better market detectors (beside doing more substantial testing by enlisting experienced detectorists before releasing their new model) it will be by treating their prospective customers like mature adults - assume they are talking to veteran detectorists whose particular detecting needs are very precisely understood. The condensation companies appear to have for the detecting community - that they are dealing with simpletons who are happy just to see the operating menu and a penny being dug up, is offensive.

It always comes down to a few brave experienced detectorists who buy the first units and take it out in the field and actually put it through its paces before anything concrete can be learned. I find White's (and Garrett and ML) marketing videos and flyers/materials purposely designed not to be useful for anyone, but perhaps the newbie with no clear idea what to look for and is just hoping to find coins. But basic functions aren't going to sell detectors. It is marketing suicide to leave serious questions unanswered and especially those questions skilled, veteran detectorists need to know (about specific extended functions) unanswered/ignored by the company. In the world of sales when you fail to answer the buyers spoken/unspoken concerns - you get no sale. Doing that, you appear to be hiding weak areas or shortcomings with the product. You then appear dishonest; all very hard to recover from, even if it is unintentional.

In any case, White's and some other companies don't seem to take the hobby seriously (or their customer base) - which I find insulting.

john

I should also comment on this.

After getting and reading a few responses to a post I posted here as of late.

It seems there is a central theme running with some folks,,,, like if a detector was updatable ,, a manufacturer could supposedly save face.

When I read some of these responses,,, I get the feeling they think a manufacturer can be sloppy with their soft ware/ firmware and get away with it.

I am not so sure about this.

We can look at Xp,,, now I'm not about to say they are without their mistakes,,, but when you look at Deus and the different versions,,, really only one was a version I think to fix a glitch-- with charging indicators reading inaccurate,,,,,I don't think any new version was introduced with actual performance faults.

So companies should be thinking about this--- should they decide to try and drive down this yellow brick road.

uh, White's....you state:

"All MX Sports manufactured after 3-24-16 will automatically have the latest firmware."

so, how do we know the boxed unit was mfg'ed after 3-24-16?

will the mfg date be on the box?