Public Perception Poll - White's Electronics & The MX Sport Update

Steve Wrote :


""""I don't know, but I do know one thing. Due to my long history with White's I think I am too emotionally invested in this whole thing, putting way too much time and effort into it, and seeing a trivial thing in life in terms far outweighing its true importance. Your comments have been very helpful in making me realize this, and I seriously think at this time I need to just walk away from all of it - and go metal detecting. That was my intent when I sold my MX Sport, and I need to follow through on it. """"


True words and excellent way to view it Steve..

I at times have to catch myself and say its just a metal detector..

I have problems with Laptops..Smart T.V. 4K not working out of box Reload of firmware did nothing.....Even My Keurig was broke out of the box...and man what I could tell you about Vacuum cleaners..LOL

The more modern things get (DIGITAL) the more problems I see...like one glitch and we are in Limp Mode..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

" The condensation companies appear to have for the detecting community - that they are dealing with simpletons who are happy just to see the operating menu and a penny being dug up, is offensive. "

"It always comes down to a few brave experienced detectorists who buy the first units and take it out in the field and actually put it through its paces before anything concrete can be learned"

"In any case, White's and some other companies don't seem to take the hobby seriously (or their customer base) - which I find insulting. "

Strong statements. All of them true because i felt/feel the same way.

"It seems there is a central theme running with some folks,,,, like if a detector was updatable ,, a manufacturer could supposedly save face. "

This was the case with the CTX 3030 shut off bug, which i had. It would just shut-off with no rhyme or reason. Minelab put out an update, I downloaded it, and that was that. SO how often do people bring this bug up? I bet you can't find a post about it in the past 6 moths or even year. Why? Because updating via internet works! TnSS has a great point. Make machines updatable via the internet and they can make as many mistakes as it takes as long as we can fix them for free via the internet. Now as for features, Minelab really screwed that up. They should of been updating with new features every two months. They would have sold twice as many 3030's.

You see,,, if I didn't know any better,,, the Deus being wireless is what some of the manufacturers were gazing at,,,instead of the updatable part. Shiny things can do this to people.

And they get caught with their eye not on the real ball,,,they should be staring at.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 11:20PM by tnsharpshooter.

Keep some of those blue pills around for Limp mode Keith.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Here is a suggestion to improve public perception. At one time Dave Johnson wrote an engineering report on the MXT and it was posted to their web site. Pretty awesome stuff. There are similar essays on the Tek and Fisher sites. As for the one on Whites, I can do an internet search for "whites mxt engineering report" and get a link to it at Whites. If I just browse the site from the home page, then go to The Hobby-Knowledge Base, nothing is there. They removed the link to the report but not the page itself. So copy it while you can before it's really gone (lol).

So my suggestion to Whites is to produce the same sort of essay from whoever did the design and testing work on the MX Sport. That should be easy. I really think a lot of people may find that interesting.

Report=
[www.whiteselectronics.com]

KB page=
[www.whiteselectronics.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2016 01:35AM by TabWhisperer.

It may have slipped my mind if there was one but I don't ever recall a pre-release video for any detector that wasn't anything more than a glorified infomercial or something to generate talk/interest. Back before social media and forums, all we had were detecting magazines. And those magazines would sometimes have a page or two ad for a new detector in them. They might have a picture of the detector with a few bullet note features and then of course...the piles of coins, jewelry, and relics laying on the table or photoshopped in around the detector to insinuate that all that stuff was found with that particular detector. Then at best, you might eventually have a "field test" published in one or two of the bigger magazines...which pretty much only contained the good stuff about the detector and never anything bad.

The ONLY time we have ever had good honest reviews, field tests, and breakdown reports of detectors have been with individual consumers that buy them and take the time to do so and post them on forums; or as the trend has been in the last several years, to make a video about it. Manufacturers have never really dabbled into that area. And it's no wonder why. Every time a manufacturer tries to do something with a video, the people that are genuine sticks in the mud come out in full force and gripe and whine about how it was done or how it should have been done this way instead of that. I get asked a lot on the YouTube channel of mine about why I don't do videos any more...and that right there is the answer in a nut shell. There are too many arm chair directors/critics out there that no matter how it is done, they will gripe and whine about it.

I saw the newer Whites video with the MX Sport and the musical notes. I thought it was a cool way of showing off the new firmware version and recovery speed, while having a little fun too. I liked what I saw enough that I am ordering one tomorrow.

Daniel----If you would----let us know how this detector does (compared to the FORS Relic) at the site you earlier talked about.-----Would be interested to hear your opinion in that regard.----Thanks------------Del

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It may have slipped my mind if there was one but I
> don't ever recall a pre-release video for any
> detector that wasn't anything more than a
> glorified infomercial or something to generate
> talk/interest. Back before social media and
> forums, all we had were detecting magazines. And
> those magazines would sometimes have a page or two
> ad for a new detector in them. They might have a
> picture of the detector with a few bullet note
> features and then of course...the piles of coins,
> jewelry, and relics laying on the table or
> photoshopped in around the detector to insinuate
> that all that stuff was found with that particular
> detector. Then at best, you might eventually have
> a "field test" published in one or two of the
> bigger magazines...which pretty much only
> contained the good stuff about the detector and
> never anything bad.
>
> The ONLY time we have ever had good honest
> reviews, field tests, and breakdown reports of
> detectors have been with individual consumers that
> buy them and take the time to do so and post them
> on forums; or as the trend has been in the last
> several years, to make a video about it.
> Manufacturers have never really dabbled into that
> area. And it's no wonder why. Every time a
> manufacturer tries to do something with a video,
> the people that are genuine sticks in the mud come
> out in full force and gripe and whine about how it
> was done or how it should have been done this way
> instead of that. I get asked a lot on the YouTube
> channel of mine about why I don't do videos any
> more...and that right there is the answer in a nut
> shell. There are too many arm chair
> directors/critics out there that no matter how it
> is done, they will gripe and whine about it.
>
> I saw the newer Whites video with the MX Sport and
> the musical notes. I thought it was a cool way of
> showing off the new firmware version and recovery
> speed, while having a little fun too. I liked
> what I saw enough that I am ordering one tomorrow.

When you order, if it is dealer stock on hand, make sure the serial number - first 4 digits should be over 6087 for updated firmware...

See tboykins post:

serial number



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2016 11:57AM by cadman.

Well just to rest my mind I ordered a new MX sport. I wanted a water machine and said heck with it.. Even though I hated the videos I did like the tones on the last song video/separation video.. My buddy and I were both interested to a point.. He was so interested he went ahead and ordered a new....... Etrac lol

Didn't jump when I found out my existing coils would not work with it.

HH
Mike

TabWhisperer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a suggestion to improve public perception.
> At one time Dave Johnson wrote an engineering
> report on the MXT and it was posted to their web
> site. Pretty awesome stuff. There are similar
> essays on the Tek and Fisher sites. As for the
> one on Whites, I can do an internet search for
> "whites mxt engineering report" and get a link to
> it at Whites. If I just browse the site from the
> home page, then go to The Hobby-Knowledge Base,
> nothing is there. They removed the link to the
> report but not the page itself. So copy it while
> you can before it's really gone (lol).
>
> So my suggestion to Whites is to produce the same
> sort of essay from whoever did the design and
> testing work on the MX Sport. That should be
> easy. I really think a lot of people may find
> that interesting.
>
> Report=
> [www.whiteselectronics.com]
> ge-Base/field-reports/mxt
>
> KB page=
> [www.whiteselectronics.com]
> ge-base

One of the best pages on the White's site was the Field Reports page - it is still there but no links from elsewhere on White's site that I could find. Still there via Google.... [www.whiteselectronics.com]

"Every time a manufacturer tries to do something with a video, the people that are genuine sticks in the mud come out in full force and gripe and whine about how it was done or how it should have been done this way instead of that. I get asked a lot on the YouTube channel of mine about why I don't do videos any more...and that right there is the answer in a nut shell. There are too many arm chair directors/critics out there that no matter how it is done, they will gripe and whine about it."

Everyone has a right to make an observation about anything posted online. Making a video displaying your product is not rebuilding the pyramids. It is a very easy and also profitable thing to do. Bill S. does a lot of videos and he does a better job than they do showcasing their products and doesn't make a dime from doing this. It's his passion! So a multimillion dollar company can't do what he does? THAT'S where a lot of frustration comes from.

Putting qualified individuals displaying products is a win-win situation for everyone.

Am I a harsh critic? You better believe it! As a consumer, I expect to get maximum value for my money. As a guy watching a video done by the average detectorist, I expect maximum value for my time.

According to White's this morning, any serial number beginning with 6081 or later will be new firmware. These were in the second batch that were made AFTER the glitch... That is March 21st or afterward..Richard Backwoods Detectors



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2016 06:27PM by RichardnTn.

Good to know Richard .. Once I get the MX sport I will put it to work..

Let me know how it does. I used one of the first ones out and it did fine. I didn't have any issues but truthfully I only used it a few minutes.............

I never had a huge interest in the MXS but it was interesting. I like facts and details though and the marketing/social media turned me off. I love that they are tapping social media as most detector companies are pretty mum in that area but it was very...young? immature? 18-28 demographic? Not the detecting market. I really like what Russ has done for first Texas marketing and social media. Lots of stores and finds, some contests, good information video shares. And an occasional funny to mix things up.

All that said. Whites is a good US company and their products are solid with support second to none. They are just having evolution issues at the moment. But they are trying. Tesoro just seems dormant and dead. Garrett seems to let popular youtube channels, tv show, and the public do the talking. Not much from them directly besides standard manufacture demos and guides. which is good.

These "evolution issues",,, funny thing,,,a lot has been said on this forum over the course of the last few years.

Like,,why did it take so long to answer with waterproof general use Vlf detector.
Lose the tin can look.
Straighten up their forum
Reduced detector weight
More power efficient detectors --like running on 4AAs vs 8
Lighter stock sized coils
Consider pre release testing releases to public

I'm sure there is more,,,but all these are really old recommendations actually from quite a few folks..

Some folks, including myself even tried to compare the detecting industry here in the USA,, to what foreign manufacturers did with autos and how it affected American auto manufacturers.

One thing,,, I'm not this kinda person,,, where if a person or group comes up with a good idea(s),,, to dismiss it because I didn't think of it,,,,or to wait down the road and then grab ahold of the once dismissed idea(s) and then try to make their own.

This is called being selfish and dumb at the same time,,,and in business-- will bite you in the arse most times.

Now some might call as this I posted armchairing
Call it what you want,,,but look around and watch what is happening,,, before you criticize too much.
A lot of this is factual and if heeded,,, will go a long ways to making a better more appealing product for the public to purchase.

And here's the kicker---This is FREE advice or recommendations,,,,there are some who charge for such advice.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2016 09:08PM by tnsharpshooter.

Making a video displaying your product is not rebuilding the pyramids.

Ha! But you'd think someone was asking the manufacture to produce Citizen Kane.

Some more free advice. All I want to see is 1) a demonstration of the features 2) examples of the detector in use 3) details on how this detector excels - what is it's big selling point (show it in action doing that special thing it does). Not really that hard to do. A dozen videos covering various detecting dilemmas and how this new detector deals with/solves the problems answers the buyers questions before they ask (don't wait for user reviews to trickle in, don't wait for detectorists to ask - show them upfront).

If the features are ordinary, the detector doesn't really excel in any area, and has no market-shattering selling points ... then go with musical tunes created from audio tones or heave the waterproof detector into the water. Entertain rather than inform, if that's all you've got. But it is likely to be a pig to sell and recouping R&D dollars probably will never happen.

When a manufacture cannot find enough to say/demonstrate about its newest detector's great features to fill a thirty-minute video, that detector probably either hasn't got much going for it OR the company has limited marketing skill, or both.

I really like the White's engineer reports they had been doing ... didn't know it was there, since the link was removed from their site. Why hide the data? That is the kind of information that discriminating detectorists need to know (read: crave). If the manufacture can't be bothered to do a similar report for the MXS, that says volumes (just removing the link avoids future detector models from receiving the same level of detailed discussion and scrutiny - that is a big negative and a marketing no-no).

White's (if you are listening, I bet you are!) sell your detectors on the engineering prowess that is in them, don't hide from it. Don't let consumers (only) sell your detectors by word of mouth - you should be so excited about your marvelous invention that no one can contain you (videos describing its great features, highlighting them under different detecting scenarios, should flow like water - inform, entertain, demonstrate, but get out in front of your invention and prove to us just how good it is). You've got to come out of your Sweet Home Oregon turtle shell and be so proud of what you've created that you make everyone sit up and take notice!

Anyway, if those who bought the MXS find it works well, especially at saltwater beach recovery, then I may go for it (got to see it against the CTX first).

Just remember, word of mouth (this forum) is great for continued excitement as good reviews arrive and the end-user praises your good work. But you've got to be out there (YOU the manufacture) from the very start taking the lead. You've got to be blowing the trumpet as you release your newest detectors. Come on White's - get excited and get busy convincing us to buy!

john

For all intents and purposes, a metal detector is still just a toy in a small niche hobby. $600 toys are not really that expensive. I have suits that cost more than that. Heck I just built a fence for my goats that cost twice that. A guy I work with just spent $20,000 on one of those Rayzr ATVs to go ride trails with every now and then...a $20,000 toy. The automobile industry is a multi billion (with a dollar industry and you don't have 30 minute videos show casing the newest models of any of them. You get a series of 30 second ads that don't really go over any of the features or options of the vehicle at all. To get anything like that, you have to look to third party sources like Motor Trend magazine tests or for home appliances, you look up the Consumer Reports, etc. For metal detectors, you have people like NASA Tom, Keith, or Gary from the UK that give more complex and complete run downs and tests of each machine. Heck I remember a commercial for Mtn Dew where the guy runs down a cheetah and tackles it for the Dew. Or the Pepsi/Coke commercial where the two truck drivers are in a little diner and get into a brawl over the drinks. All of that has nothing to do with the product but sure is entertaining to watch.

Manufacturers are not going to present their stuff to you like they do on Shark Tank hoping the investors will buy their company.

Dang Daniel, You must be a sharpe dressed Man! I have one suit In my closest collecting dust that don't cost 600.00.

Harold is that the suit you are saving when you are collecting dust? Do fell bad my suit does not fit anymore.

Dan. I am just debating here, not being personal so please understand that this debate is meant in good taste and respect:

The idea you are really pushing here is, because the people involved in the hobby are a small amount comparatively speaking to the automobile industry, that metal detecting companies should try LESS to make a promotional video to sell their product vs car manufacturers? That doesn't make ANY sense to me. I would think BECAUSE it is such a small market, that metal detecting companies need to try as hard as possible to get our dollars.

Also, we are comparing metal detecting companies to metal detecting companies. Apples to apples.

"Heck I remember a commercial for Mtn Dew where the guy runs down a cheetah and tackles it for the Dew. Or the Pepsi/Coke commercial where the two truck drivers are in a little diner and get into a brawl over the drinks. All of that has nothing to do with the product but sure is entertaining to watch."

This example is talking about soft drinks. How many features do soft drinks have? Who doesn't know how to use a soft drink? So how do you sell them? You make it entertaining so the customer might relate in their subconscious mind that, "those people are having fun drinking it, I will too".

"$600 toys are not really that expensive."

$600 dollars is two weeks work and is a HUGE hit to my budget. If I am going to spend it, there better be a good reason behind it.

"Manufacturers are not going to present their stuff to you like they do on Shark Tank hoping the investors will buy their company."

True. But, IMO, we aren't asking for Manufacturers to tell us the marketing and potential sales of their products. We just want a demonstration(a reason) why we should buy.

I understand the core of what you are saying. But it doesn't make sense to me. Thanks Dan and others, for reading.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2016 04:48PM by Beyonder-Pa.

Ole' Daniel is livin' High on the Hog! LOL!

bump - just so people can review what was being said three months ago. Four months now since I first reported firmware issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2016 10:21PM by Steve Herschbach.

Bottom line is Whites are in Denial, and the Dealers have been encouraged as to what to say and are still prepared to sell Faulty equipment and the Customer has to buy a Broken product and then get it repaired,

At present Whites are the most embarrassing thing that has ever happened In the Detecting World, and it's Very Sad to See.

John

You can lead a horse to water,,but you can't make it drink.

Horses for courses.

In time,,,we'll see who was right here.

I have a feeling I know.

Market is way too competitive to be playing reindeer games.

All folks have to do is look around on the road when they are driving,,,see any Nissans,,Toyotas,, KIAs, Hondas, etc ???

This show I think we are about to see here,,,actually a rerun.

When you think about it.

Actually the rerun may have already started (In Progress) ..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2016 07:59PM by tnsharpshooter.

I knew there were issues but afraid to post in the Forums for fear of being banned and told I didn't know how to use a Metal Detector.
I finally had enough and did a search leading to Steves forum where he was complaining about the same things I have seen with the MXS.
I wasn't happy having to send a 3 day old Metal Detector back for Upgrades which took 3 weeks of prime Metal Detecting weather and with the fix Audio MOD still didn't work right.
I took a loss on the re-sale because people knew there where issues which stinks.
And I still haven't got a call from Whites or EMAIL about the issue.

Another fried detector- from Whites forum today--


Mxsport trouble

I took my mx sport out in the river for the first time and I am thoroughly disappointed! I have fell in love with this machine until today. To start out I went through the pre water hunt checklist and then double checked it, got in the water I have been studying about for years and the first target was great then the machine went stupid the display went crazy the sound went crazy then it shut off. I dried the machine with a towel opened the battery box it was dry. I opened the headphones dry and the same with the coil. What is going on?



I should have read some post before I wrote my post. The screen is cracked at the corner.

Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
Today 04:49 PM #3
deolslyfox
deolslyfox is offline
Super Moderator
deolslyfox's Avatar

Join Date
Jul 2008
Location
Central Florida
Posts
44,410
Detectors
V3i / VX3 / DFX / MXT Pro / MX Sport / M6 / 6T / CM GT / XLT / BH 300 / SURF PI DF / IDX Pro / 6000D S2

Sorry to hear that .... As other posts indicate, just send 'er in for repair / updating. I have one of the first production units. No cracking. It has been in hot sun, hot car, air conditioned house .... As Howard noted - there doesn't seem to be any correlation between manufacturing date and cracking ....

A pain for sure, but not to worry. Whites will take care of you !!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will this guy have to pay to return the machine ? It seems he will be getting a screen consisting of the same material if he gets it serviced there.

Yes,,,and just think,,,when I posted on their site a few days ago about cracks with pic of my unit,,,,no info present on the site period about cracks in faceplates.

A bulletin should have been noted on their website concerning this.

And they definitely knew about the cracks,,,because Howard responded with guidance.

So this person has had a bad expereince,,,,didn't have to be this way.

Had he known about the possible cracks ( they are not really obvious btw) due to location,,,maybe he would have dry land hunted until he could get his unit sent in.
Now White's has to do even more repairs here besides a face plate change,,which cost more loot.

Think about this,,,has White's noted anywhere,,,where a manufactured date or serial number batch,,,where these cracks for owners should be a non issue.
Which units in fact have this noted non flawed face plate installed originally at the factory??



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2016 02:56AM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes,,,and just think,,,when I posted on their site
> a few days ago about cracks with pic of my
> unit,,,,no info present on the site period about
> cracks in faceplates.
>
> A bulletin should have been noted on their website
> concerning this.
>
> And they definitely knew about the
> cracks,,,because Howard responded with guidance.
>
> So this person has had a bad expereince,,,,didn't
> have to be this way.
>
> Had he known about the possible cracks ( they are
> not really obvious btw) due to location,,,maybe he
> would have dry land hunted until he could get his
> unit sent in.
> Now White's has to do even more repairs here
> besides a face plate change,,which cost more
> loot.
>
> Think about this,,,has White's noted
> anywhere,,,where a manufactured date or serial
> number batch,,,where these cracks for owners
> should be a non issue.
> Which units in fact have this noted non flawed
> face plate installed originally at the factory??

Whites just recently said on this forum--

Out of a few thousand sold, the legacy forums like DP, Crankowski, and a few threads on FM and TN are the source of most of our negative feedback.


This forum currently has 5 registered users online and Tnet has 2. Not billion. Or million. Single digits.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whites has already figured out that the money is to be made off the gullible people. They aren't going to send out any information to all those that purchased the MX Sport. Their online support will also come from gullible people that don't have the best interest of the purchaser on their mind. Some Friendly forum members are not a big fan of you and that is obvious. Some Friendly forum members haven't the foggiest idea of what is going on with this machine and their ignorance shows. They are not looking out for their fellow detectorists.