Fors Relic and square nails

some other thoughts I want to pass along to some of the hunters who have picked up a Relic..

First off congrats..

Second Off its not a regular detector..

Its a hyper powerful unit and things you may expect to see on most detectors don't seem to exactly adhere to a Amped up unit..

Especially when you get them in trash...and especially when you get them in lot sopf iron and Tin and such...

Spark for real is hard to determine at first..

I was afraid of Concerns when I asked for it to be hotter on field testing.. because it was already HOT..Now it's in hyper Hot gain mode...BUT its something a True Relic hunter will appreciate in time..if he does not already.. maybe a coin hunter or a such may find it a bit overwhelming in terms of NOISE..But I promise you the noise will make sense and will make finds ..

Its a Amped up world your in Now..

It takes years or even over a decade/Decades or more to learn all the traits of a Hyper gain unit it will not happen overnight...

Its the type machine that were meant to be used for looking for smaller targets in isolated areas like say gold Nuggets but they have been adapted to work in iron trash and behaviors will be different..

I actually don't like running a coin unit myself because its to behaved and predictable..I like a unit that's running on the edge of explosion..

There could be a legitimate problem with ones unit. for sure..BUT also remember its a different type unit...its a steroided up F19..

If anyone wants to send me a control box they have I would be happy to check it out and see if it's got problem or if its PROPER..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

almost all my machine do not like the burnt cut nails it does help to turn in a different direction you may get it to break

Curantly own a Mirage P.I made by sven , and a silver Umax with ground balance mode, and a Tesoro Tejon

Keith, just to be clear.....are you saying that you will check out a Fors Relic control box? ...Or 'any and every' control box?

A Relic Box..



Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I air test my machines out on my gold claims far, far away from interference.
I already sent my machine back. It had other problems like target separation. I could put a nail and quarter 4" apart and they would blend. As soon as I saw this ID smearing, I packed it up. My Au gold finder/gold racer can separate targets no problem.

I don't need to air test mine. I'm more than happy with it. It's hot and works perfect. I didn't try it with the 5" coil on the nails. I will though. I know Tom was digging square nails with it and some were deep.

Tom, post a photo of the nails you dug.

Here a square nail I dug.

[i1053.photobucket.com]

Don71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would hope that Nokta/Makro can chime in about
> why there are large discrepancies (in DEEP mode)
> in their Youtube posted air tests vs our air
> tests.
>
> Nokta Fors Relic Air Test.
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> Makro Racer 2 Air Test.
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> Or Keith's Whopping 21" (Deep Mode) Air Test on a
> Quarter for the Racer 2:
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> I communicated this information to Dilek at Nokta
> 5 days ago via email but haven't heard back yet.
>
> My machine had lack of depth in all the air test
> diagnostics.
> It also had some target ID problems. (including ID
> smearing problems)
>
> -Don


Hello Don...air tests are just for reference and different results may be obtained based on a lot of different factors. We have no directly reported issues with the detector so far. All detectors sent to USA belonged to the same shipment and you can read other customers' comments and feedbacks. Ragarding the ID problem - can you please explain that further? Or better can you send us a short video so we can verify whether the detector is behaving as expected or not?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2016 02:07PM by Nokta Detectors.

I just returned from a four day turkey hunting/relic hunting trip in Central Arizona. I took the Fors Relic, the CoRe, and the Minelab X-Terra 70 with the 18.75 DD coil.
I was able to hunt three different home/cabin sites that all dated back to the late 1800s. One of the sites is still standing on my BILs ranch. Dug some cool stuff.
It really gave me the opportunity to spend a lot of time with the Relic. It is nothing like the CoRe. Much hotter! I really love the CoRe but I'm loving the Relic more now.
I didn't have any trouble with square nails using the Relic. I hunted mostly with the small coil, DI3, gain 45-50, ID Mask 5, iMask 0. The places were absolutely littered with square nails and other iron trash.
In fact, I really liked the way the Relic handled the nails...they were the least of my frustrations. Pulled many good targets from holes that had nails in with them.
My observations about the Relic were this:

Loves rusty tin. IDs it as non-ferrous but so does every other machine I own.
Loves round objects...especially round rusty tin.
Loves copper, brass, lead.
Most modern shell cases ID much lower and sound different than older cases like Spencer or Henry.
At times, a simple boot scrape would disqualify the target after an initial "good" hit (or make it better). Same goes for other detectors.
Very, very fast recovery.
Very mineralized ground so no deep recoveries but the ground at these places gets so hard after six to eight inches that nothing is deep anyway.

My thoughts are that I need to learn how to deal with the rusty tin.
I think from my experience thus far that Keith is correct...It's a very hot machine and that there is more of a learning curve as such. BUT, once learned, it will out perform less hot machines.
As for the OPs square nail issues, I didn't experience that problem. There are many variables but I hope you get to the crux of the problem and let us know what you found.
HH
Dean

Well as we've seen with the advent of the Turkish machines coming into the country over a year ago. The originals were very hot by the standards then. A lot of people had a hard time with them, being very hot. A lot of people did not even take the time to understand what they could do and were digging ghost signals, crackles and pops being used to machines that couldn't see what these could anyway, but those machines they were running before and are still very mundane running machines compared to these new detectors. Then along came the Racer after the CoRe and buddy it was calling overhead aircraft just about. Then the Gold plus and it "is" wide open sparky beyond that, only if it had 3 tone me being a coin hunter. Than the R2, lawd what a machine. Wide open and worked better than anything I've ever used to unlock very hard hunted places. With that last sentence said, read it again. You want to unlock a place, 3 tone will do it on all these machines with it. In trash/iron/garbage you do not need to run 2 tone. You're not going to get deep anyway per the trash so.......... Learn 3 tone very well then delve into 2 tone "if" you feel you need to. And now we've got a Relic pumped up even higher. I don't have one, yet, but I'll buy one from a user who can't handle a wide open machine. A lot of people are going to see what all these machines can do if they stick with them and learn them. If and if you are not an audio nuance hunter you're gonna dig a LOT of stuff. Once learned you'll dig less than any machine available imo. These are conductive metal locating giants in the metal detecting world. There's stuff you did not even know existed in places you have pounded. So, anyone have a Relic they can't handle pm me... and as Dean mentioned, I didn't even know rusty tin existed in my spots I hunt but there's a way to alleviate that I'm working on. A little more time.......I'm digging it too!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2016 09:24PM by Jack Flynn.

Nokta Detectors Wrote:

> Hello Don...air tests are just for reference and
> different results may be obtained based on a lot
> of different factors. We have no directly reported
> issues with the detector so far. All detectors
> sent to USA belonged to the same shipment and you
> can read other customers' comments and feedbacks.
> Ragarding the ID problem - can you please explain
> that further? Or better can you send us a short
> video so we can verify whether the detector is
> behaving as expected or not?


Hello Dilek,

I sent the Relic detector back to Kellyco last week for replacement so I will be unable to make a video to demonstrate for you.
My detector had what seemed like a slow recovery speed or signal lag.
For example, I can take two coins and put them 3-4 inches apart on my Gold Racer and hear both coin signals very easily. (Beep-Beep)
On my Fors Relic, it would only sound off on the coin it hit first and then nothing unless I went really, really slow with my coil sweep speed.
I tried various settings but still had the same problem. This is how I came to the conclusion that something was not right with my detector.
(Also, the cable was falling out of the handle where I could see the individual wires under the jacket but all the buttons worked. I repaired it with some glue so it wouldn't pull out of the handle.)

I hope to have a replacement Relic detector from Kellyco soon.

Thanks for responding.

Best Regards,
Don

I agree with Jack on the subject of depth. It's not happening in hot or trashy ground. I would much rather have faster recovery speed and separation abilities from a relic detector than big depth. But, then again, I live in AZ where the ground is very hard just a few inches down and nothing seems to sink very deep like in other, wetter, parts of the country. Not much farm field hunting here either. It is certainly nice to have a machine that can do deep when needed though.

In trashy spots DI3 is where it's at! The adjustable tone break in DI3 makes this mode even more slue-thy (to steal Keith's word) as you can customize the mode/tones to the site. I didn't use DI2 much as these were very trashy sites and I needed more tonal info to help separate the good from the bad. I really didn't use DI2 much with the CoRe either this past year. I prefer more tonal information.

Did the OP use DI3 much?

Dean

I got a new Relic machine and tested it out this weekend. The new one is a lot better than the old one. I get much better depth (air tests & in ground) and target ID's are more stable. Emi chatter is a lot less.

It's DI3 that identifies rusty nails as a high tone in the nineties for target ID. DI2 works fine and calls them iron. Deep mode works fine too. I am not sure if this is a bug or just my machine. I was using the small coil at an old home site.

-Don

Don71,
Glad you got your machine back!
I'm surprised that it IDs them in the 90s in DI3. Does it ID them in the high 90s? Do you think that it may be attributed to "wrap around"? Any possibility of it being site specific...like some strange square nail made from a different type of iron alloy at that particular spot (grasping at straws here)?

I have yet to dig anything non-ferrous that IDs at 97 or above. Keep us posted. HH

Dean

It would ID them from 92-98. I will continue testing it on more nails in DI3 later this week.
They were not square nails, just rusty old modern nails...maybe 50 years old or close.

It's a unit that if you got your digging cap on and don't worry about numbers you will grab a lot of tricky targets.... VDI is for parks... Audio is for the fields so get digging it all.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to dig it all. I am a cherry picker for sure. (Mostly hunting old silver coins) Those nails make nice sweet high tones in DI3 anyway.
I am considering the Minelab CTX 3030 since it has the most accurate target ID possible. I will keep the relic for when I find an area worth a 2nd pass with that sort of detector.

These machines are extremely hot and not really for silver coin hunting cherry picking..

they will do great things if you want to dig non ferrous out of ferrous..


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2016 01:39AM by Keith Southern.

Keith,

I think I would be more into digging all non-ferrous if I lived on or closer to the East Coast. Here in Washington State, the relics are not as good. I thought about the Racer 2 over the Fors Relic but is there much difference for a coin hunter?

Yes I would never use the Relic for coin hunting unless it was the type coins Hiding in 150 year old iron pits..

Use the right tool for the job..

When the Deeptech's hit the scene I was blown away by them but soon found out by talking POSITIVE/ for what I was doing with the lead some people to buy them and use them in the wrong locales.Then some bad and or negative things were said about them when actually the machine was not to blame its doing its job it's the arena it was trying to be used in..

I knew the Relic was going to be a SPECIFIC unit when I tested it and Yes we the testers kept asking for more AMP's and we got it but it's at a cost to the other hunters...that's why if you read on the website..I called it a Relic machine in the PUREST sense of the word...




Heads up..

If I was after Silver on a budget It would be a Omega

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Hmmmm....seems strange it would suck at coins. The F19 is also at 19 Khz and does very well with coins. Fisher marketed it as a relic detector. The air tests on coins are incredible with the Fors Relic matching the Racer 2. It's just that the relic is so darn noisy with ghost high tones that it wastes too much time.

All of these machines are high gain machines. The relic obviously is cranked up a little more sounds like. All of them do the same chattering and crackling and such a lot in heavy trash the Turkish machines. But they will pull the goods, no mistaking that. Once learned you will be very pleased. However it will take some time.

Its deeper than a F19....yet therein lies some of the problems..

Anything at depth the F19 hears the Relic will hear I have found in my testing...but its a more amped up unit and with that comes a longer learning experience..

It doesn't 'suck' as you say at coins just doesn't 'suck' high coins at depth..

It will 'Suck' Nickles and Bronze indians at good depth even on edge 3 centers and Dimes and half Dimes..

I run alot of 19Khz units heres some I ran today in a site

F19/Relic /Warrior


the F19 was is actually the weakest on depth of the three units..the warrior is the deepest but comes at the cost to obtain it instability in terms of falsing from twigs and such..not an issue really but just requires more patience and KNOWING what to expect when and where and how to combat it for the extra depth that a Ground reactive machine will offer a user..

Of the 3 here the Relic is the best blend of the Two that's why it's in the middle...

By the way the Warrior is very much like a GMP...almost hard to separate one from the other in the field performance wise..

Yet if I was a silver hunter i would pursue that with other units ..not these if that was my MAIN quest..


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2016 04:26AM by Keith Southern.

Thanks Keith, do you get the sporadic high tone false signals on your relic?

I know the F19 is not very deep. That's why I have been in search of a new detector.
It does well in the first 4-5" of depth. I wish it punched deeper.

Maybe it's my ground or my experience with the CoRe for a year before I got the Relic but I don't have problems picking out coins with this machine. I've found a handful of old copper, some clad, no silver coins yet. It locks on to coins or any other non-ferrous metal for that matter in a carpet of iron trash. I am not a park hunter/coin hunter but I am tempted to take it to the park because I think it would be great on small gold jewelry. I don't get false high tones on targets that any other machine wouldn't also give a false high tone on (rusty flat tin, large flat iron, 12" aluminum can, etc.). That's relic hunting. Of course, I get fooled and dig garbage that the machine was indicating as a good target (or I interpreted it as such). Although it's getting better, discrimination still sucks, especially in trashy environs. VDI #s are just a rough guide... even on a CTX. I hunt with a very experienced detectorist who uses the CTX and he digs his share of false positives on old iron infested sites. The Relic and CTX are both great machines though, for sure.

I don't THINK that I get the "sporadic high tones" that you mention. At times, I will get a one way high tone that does not hold up as a high tone at different angles/directions on the target. Upon digging, these have yet to be a good target for me.

I hope you find the machine that works for your needs. Don't give up on the Relic just yet! I think the best way to make a great machine even better is to spend some time with it and learn it's language. Good luck.

Dean



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2016 04:31AM by bado1.

Yes I do..I get alot of false signals on a good bit of my units..the F75 especially..

Any Sparky unit will hit those nail tips with a high hit...

The best thing to do in my opinion is go three tone slide tone break to 95..concentrate on all mid tones and those High tones that are legit real targets will sound good. those pippy high tones will be more noticeable as falsing..

that's one for the great things the Relic offers is the three tone...its a different process..

It will yank coins out of trash and iron in that mode once you learn the target trait's..

Its a full force power unit...those nail falsies are flat sounding the goodies are round sounding..

Field time=Field time=Field time..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I will give the Relic some more field time.

Dean, What are your favorite settings for coin hunting on the Relic?

Keith, I will give your 3 tone setting a try.

I am also going to buy a Racer 2 so I can compare them side by side and satisfy my curiosity.
You can never have too many detectors!

Thanks,
Don

Ziggy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a unit that if you got your digging cap on
> and don't worry about numbers you will grab a lot
> of tricky targets.... VDI is for parks... Audio is
> for the fields so get digging it all.


Lol

Amen zig man

There is a slight problem when dealing with audio only on a hyper sensitive detector. In a nut shell, the Relic would have been considered a gold prospecting VLF machine just a few years ago. In fact, it's cousins are the Fors Gold and Gold+ that are marketed at gold prospecting. It is hyper sensitive to small low conductor items. There comes a point when being too sensitive to small things becomes counter productive when dealing with coins and relics. I'll be honest with you, there are some non ferrous items that aren't worth the time and effort to dig, and a machine like the Relic will bring those to your attention.

I'm talking about things like fired .22 LR bullets, and lead and copper BBs from shotgun shells, small shards of aluminum or pie plates, lead buck shot. You get the idea. There are approx 340 BBs in a SINGLE shotgun shell of #5 shot size. The Relic will pounce on those things with a VDI in the 40s-60s depending on whether they are copper or lead. Since the tone break features work off the VDI numbering system, you have a slight problem even when doing audio only and not going by numbers.

I bench tested a lot of my finds that I have, such as flat buttons, military buttons, various US coins (particularly the smaller ones), and things like that. All of the cuff buttons and 15-20 mm size buttons that I have, will read in the 50s and 60s on the Relic. $1 gold coin that is 12.7 mm diameter, reads in the low to mid 40s. Half dimes of different wear; in the 50s and low 60 range.

So you have all these small undesirable targets that are coming in the same number range as the good low conductor targets that we want to dig. The problem here in my area is...there are literally thousands, if not millions of fired .22 bullets and shotgun shell BBs in every site I go. Heck, I have sat in one sitting and shot 550 rounds of .22 LR just by myself.

It really doesn't matter how or where you set the tone breaks, as you are still going to have to dig some of that stuff if your intended targets are the low to mid conductors. Having used the Deus for a while in the GMP program at 18khz, you would think it would also be bad about hitting on those smaller things. I'm not sure if it is the coil sizes being different or if it's the Relic is just pushed to the edge for gain/sensitivity...but the Relic will see those small 4 to 6 mm size trash targets that the Deus and other machines just wont hit on, or wont hit on well. Oh, they'll be non ferrous targets come out of the ground but it would almost be as productive to take a pulse machine into a park. Some people might like digging that sort of stuff and gleaming every last piece of non ferrous items out of the site. But not this ole boy. I want something that starts to be decently sensitive to things in and around the 10 - 12 mm diameter range, and not so sensitive to the small things. I can handle digging the occasional buck ball or shotgun shell. But chasing #4 and #5 copper shotgun BBs around in the dirt is not fun.

Don71,

Like Keith had mentioned I go DI3, Sens 85 or so, ID Mask 4, iMASK 0, and I slide the the tone break up in to the 80s so that it mainly reports targets as mid tones unless it hits on a "legit" high tone target. I want the machine to really alert me to a high conductor. As Keith said it reports nails and junk more accurately in mid tones. High 90s targets are, most likely, trash due to the wrap around effect.

As to .22 shells and small lead- .22 shells always bounce around in the low 50s and have a very "quick-short" audio report and usually have friends in concentrated areas. once you dig a couple and learn what they sound like you wont dig them much. Usually, They reveal themselves with a quick boot scrape anyway. Small lead is another 40s/low 50s target and sounds, well, "small". I haven't dug any bird shot as of yet as in AZ. quail hunters hunt with the really small stuff #8. Not a lot of turkeys here so not much in the way of lager bird shot like #5 or #2. Big lead like 3-ringers come in mid to high 60s here. I have yet to dig a desirable target below 60s. Again, I use VDI#s as rough guides- just another piece of the puzzle.

Hope this helps some. Good luck.

Dean