Recovery speed don't necessarily mean more find's in the poke

I see alot of emphasis on youtube videos of people testing out Detector X against detector Y in terms of recovery speed..

You know lay the pennys down about 4 inches a part then scan them and show how they can all be heard Beep----Beep----Beep ---Beep...well you get the picture..they speed up faster and faster and you still hear each individual coin....then show another one and as you speed up they become one single BEEEEEEEEEEP...

Now that would make you think wow!!! if it can recover like that it will kill it in the trash...!!!!!

Not so EVERY TIME as we know...

Look at a say Fisher F75 ...LIghtning quick...look at a AT-PRO no where near the recovery speed of the F75...yet the AT-PRO can report co-locates better than a F75 in certain scenarios ...Certain target orientation..


Different ways of REPORTING and also ability to break the tone helps immensely...

That will lead to the phrase separation.

Separation does not have to be fast it just has to alert the user to SEPARATE targets,,

Fast recovery is Nice to a point but the closer the Co-Locate's become the Recovery reaches its breaking point ..that's why in the videos they have the coins a certain distance from each other for the speedy unit...it has to stop and report then start again...So while it's fast to recover its not exactly fast enough to Seperate extremely close..Especially if say its going from one conductor to another conductor..penny penny penny is pretty easy...all the same so not alot of tone flopping...but say a Nail and a penny and it gets tougher...two different conductors to jump from one tone to the other..and with start and stop audio Separation starts to suffer even though the unit is blazing fast..Exact tone break like on a F19 tighten's that up..lighting fast and less travel for the tone if it's set at nail the tones already at the teeter spot.....Yet say the At-Pro can still see some things even the F19 cant..Why???

The AT while not extremely fast has the ability to break tone's like say the F19 but it also has the ability to change its mind midstream on a targets conductance..As it reports its real time feed...this is open audio gate....the F75 and even F19 is timed audio gate..


So recovery speed is awesome and start up shut down time gated reports are great for more accurate I.D's But in Co-Locate scenarios you need MORE advantages as time goes on..

DTVG--GMP---R--R2---CoRe--Relic---Deus etc has taken the Speed and allowed for the Recovery and also the Separation or as I like to call the bleedy blendy reporting..

They can change their minds mid stream and keep doing it...it's up to the user to decipher the changes...

How much can Our ears process???

A LOT if your listening...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2016 02:00AM by Keith Southern.

Keith

What about the older model Tesoros, I have used the ED-120 Bandido and Toltec models for years with great success. I even do well when comparing with my friends XP Deus or E-Trac and X-Terra. We hunt some old abandoned houses, old church and pic-nic groves/ camp sites with an abundance of square nails in the mix. The Tesoros, without any magic tone breaks, just plain old school analog mono tones tell me plenty about an un-dug target.

Very true...the old single tone analog are tough to top..

I like the Full picture that Tones allow ...more like an all metal disc hunt...

and they are just Now coming into there own..

Another good modern Tone unit I forgot is the MX5...It does thing with the tones that are along the lines of the Racers and Deus..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2016 05:17PM by Keith Southern.

What about the MX Sport, Keith? How is it with the tones - blendy bleedy thing?
It also has the mixed audio in Relic mode.
Have you had your hands on one?

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Wouldn't a detector like a f75 offer the same advantage in single tone as a tesoro plus more notch and many variables?

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Loosely used term these days,,and can actually mislead folks into what they think they are actually getting detector wise from a performance standpoint.

Term is interrelated to things like,, tonal recovery speed,,depth loss with faster recovery, machines ability to perform in higher mineral soil, coil's ability to not saturate as easily with unwanted targets,,detector's ability to just how low a disc setting can be actually run-- and still discern ferrous from nonferrous targets.

One company it seems has the lead in cracking the code here,,I won't say who.

One thing to note here,,,most times when recovery speed is talked about,,,seems is more related to separation in and around iron and nails,,,,,detector industry needs to focus more on detector's performance when it comes to nonferrous modern trash--- big difference here vs say ferrous.

Whomever can crack the code here---or at least make a little stride towards-- more than what we have and see today,,,,will be a popular seller.

Folks use things like discrimination and notch to hunt modern sites,,,but make no mistake using these is more tom foolery when it comes to not leaving worthy finds behind.

So as the cogs turn in the metal detector manufacturing facilities we'll see which manufacturer is able to make this leap.

For me on the deus sometimes recovery 3 chops the tone so I say only use it when you need it even 1 is very fast.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

keith i have heard alot of good things about the at pro ,just wondering if the tejon will keep up with the at pro and the other metal detectors in unmasking in nails?i really need to learn the tejon in iron ,because it has dug me to death in iron!!!! thanks for any info

My aim was not to say one machine was bad and was was good so please understand that I was just using the ones I stated as examples since they are well known.

Yet all of them will see different items at the end of the day and a lot of the same items..

Yes The F75 does better on a single tone using disc at nail for co-locate recovery's..I believe Tom did a write up on that exact set up on the intitial release of the F75....

And Over the years I have used Mono tone and disc 7 myself..but its still the type report of once its committed it stays committed..in other words its digital on/off feed.. not like a analog Tesoro ..and not quite as precise as the Knob offers in the nail range on a Tejon for instance...the Tejon allows Bleed through and can be NOISY so things to consider..

Noisy bleedy disc's are useful tools for unlocking targets as long as it stays some what intelligent...once the intelligence is gone from the Noise its over with..

And I might point out some people will decipher jambalaya noise better than others ..especially the more you have become accustom to it over the years...

Haven't used a Sport yet IN THE FIELD...I will eventually but was waiting on the Proper version to arrive..maybe its has arrived ?? Waiting it out a bit more..

AT-PRO I have the highest respect for it in unlocking co-locate target scenarios..Here's the thing the Tejon is a true beast in recovering the hardest of targets to obtain in iron...Yet its only reporting through audio I would ascertain less than 10 Percent of the targets in the soil at any given time in say a site full of ferrous..I like to hear what I dont want to dig as much or even more than what I want to dig..I have the highest respect and success with a Tejon but I can see where a user can have difficulties with telling a false from a legitimate goodie..The AT series offers more sonically and in doing that allows for more intelligent decisions to be made...

The AT-PRO to me is the perfect balance in terms of not too much gain on the front end but not anemic either and has awesome audio and Blending..not a lot of bleeding from the low gain but a lot of blending all the same...and yes its a viable choice for entry into tones hunting on a modern platform..

There's alot of great units out there use what does what you need...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2016 09:34PM by Keith Southern.

The one MAIN factor overlooked in "recovery speed" (especially to those who think they need the latest/greatest/fastest machine out there) imho

is

it doesn't really matter if detector x beats detector y by a minimal margin of "speed" (ie) say deus VS F75 or F19 or R2 VS T2 or Relic or AT, etc. etc. (or any combo thereof) and/or insert ___ << detector brand/name,

the reason being is

the human brain can only process the information any given machine is reporting up to a certain point as to "speed"

take the deus for example = after recovery speed of 3 you may as well forget it because the machine is so fast at that point that you (the human brain) can not decipher one target from the next in a site full of co-located targets as the machine is recovering so fast and reporting the next target so quickly that your brain just can't keep up with how fast it's separating and reporting from one target to the next

therefore

as you say = recovery speed doesn't always equate to more finds (and/or) just because one machine is slightly faster than the next doesn't mean it's automatically better and/or will find you more targets.

I'm a big fan of the machines we've been given in the last 10 yrs (especially in the last 4 or 5) but it still comes down to the user and how he/she interprets what the machine is telling them via audio feedback

separation/recovery speed has only helped us to hear co-located targets a lot better/easier than say 10 yrs ago and beyond but as you also say = it has it's limitations

thanks for the info i understand now

Theres NO chance I could've done 5 years ago what I can do today with the same machine. There's NO chance I can do today what I'll be able to do in 5 more years with the same machine. To ME,there are enough targets in the ground that haven't been found yet because of the USER,not necessarily the machine. Can different characteristics of a machine such as speed X or Y make a difference? Surely. As big a difference as EXPERIENCE? I doubt it. But I have some slow machines....

Something else here needs to be mentioned.

Minelabs,,,are a strange creature,,granted their recovery not as fast as some but here is one thing they do very well.

They don't seem to need much coil movement of a fast coil movement to get depth-- this attribute IMO offsets their slower recovery and makes them definitely more competitive in the field when around trash and iron.

Many typical VLF detectors need a little speed or coil movement t it seems to get to at least their near max depth capabilities.

What we need is good co-locate ability at Depth! As signal responses get lower with depth iron dominates! I still think Fisher/Tek make some darn good units.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very true...the old single tone analog are tough
> to top..
>
> I like the Full picture that Tones allow ...more
> like an all metal disc hunt...
>
> and they are just Now coming into there own..
>
> Another good modern Tone unit I forgot is the
> MX5...It does thing with the tones that are along
> the lines of the Racers and Deus..
>
> Keith


yes! the mx-5 tone "reports" are very 'distinct",,very sharp and clear!
with excellent separation,and recovery speed!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Yes Experience goes a long ways for sure with any unit..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Maybe one Day Tom!!

Or at least ability to Tell there's more than one target at depth in some sort of Visual screen readout.CAT scan type look into the ground..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe one Day Tom!!
>
> Or at least ability to Tell there's more than one
> target at depth in some sort of Visual screen
> readout.CAT scan type look into the ground..
>
> Keith

We need help from the Defense Industry! LOL The advanced radars systems in use show what can be done with what is basically a simple technology.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

Hey Tom maybe the Russian's will hack some ground penetrating radar technology and then build us a cheaper version !!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Tom maybe the Russian's will hack some ground
> penetrating radar technology and then build us a
> cheaper version !!
>
> Keith

They could probably get most of the info from Hillary's emails.....that's what you were alluding too, huh Keith?