Blendy/Bleedy Blendability/Bleedability

I have read and re-read several posts regarding blendy bleedy audio as well as the thread on blendability and bleedability. Below is what I think each of these terms mean. I hope that you guys will correct me if I am wrong.

1.) Bleedy = when you hear say an iron tone and during that report you also hear a mid or high tone "bleed" into the audio resulting in your hearing two tones simultaneously.

2.) Bleedability = a detectors ability to give the audio report explained in number 1.

3.) Blendy = I'm not sure if this refers to:

A.)the averaging of the audio frequencies of two targets into one tone or;

B.)the smooth transition between the audio report of one target to the audio report of the next co-located/adjacent target. In other words the first tone doesn't end before the second tone starts. In musical terms the two notes/tones are slurred rather than separated.

I lean toward B more than A but its just a gut feeling.

4.) Blendability = a detectors ability to give one of the audio reports explained in number 2.


Am I even in the right neighborhood about these terms or am I completely lost in the fog?

If I am right and blendy is the smooth transition from one targets tone to the next targets tone, is the "Smooth" audio setting on Minelab's FBS machines considered to be blendy?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2016 04:12PM by Neugene.

I guess I'm the biggest user of those words...I guess I'm even Somewhat responsible ...SORRY !!LOL..

And I use them as a way to easily convey an understanding of the Sounds your hearing in the headphones..

For me Blendy is the way the audio transitions from one tone to the next or even creates a sort of calliope report ..No strata stop tones but a merging and BLENDING of the tones..

For Me Bleedy is the rejected target that should be say a low tone on a 2 tone machine giving a high tone sporadic report...So there's some BLEED through ..the reason this usually happens is less filtering of the disc circuit and or high gain units that can overpower the disc circuit...

How can these two things help you..??


Blendy can leave the audio gate open and allow for the free flow and transition from one tone to the other without boarders or timed reports...So i can hear say a nail and a coin in close proximity by the transition of tones from lowest to highest and even back to lowest ans your coil goes across the the co-locates or intermingled's..

Not all machines are Blenders...But it's coming more and more popular in tone machines..


Bleedy can allow for the disc circuit to not be so aggressive in terms of say I want to reject a nail...that on a disc setting of lets say 20 on a 2 tone machine...so I set it at 20 for the tone to break...yet there's parts and pieces of the low tone that can overlap into the high tone side even though the I.D on the machines is constantly showing 20..By allowing this BLEED Through the tone gives some MAKSED (I Use that term Loosely) Targets to have a fighting chance to report...if it's bleeding enough and there's a target that may be able to show just part of its conductance to the coil it can have a fighting chance to break through and report in the bleed..

The bleed also is huge in terms of Bad Soil performance...instead of keeping the soil quiet it allows for the soil to be sort of poppy and splattery on the Disc side and by doing this deep and or small targets that usually get Nulled by the filter of the disc circuit because their not strong enough to overcome the filter can now have a fighting chance to Bleed through..


Now combine those 2 traits Blend and bleed and it offers Performance in terms of Audible clues in some of the sites that regular snapshot units with Strong filters are limited once the sites have been hammered on for years,,,these type Blend Bleed units cna offer an advantage usually at the cost of more audio?noise to the user..as long as it stays intelligent enough it can help to recover co-locates/intermingles and even helps to get more in bad soil..


Clear as mud now??LOL

To answer you Explorer question..By nature the Explorer is Blendy...not very bleedy..it's pretty sure of its tones...and yes the Smooth enhances the tones and takes the roughness off the edges of the already blending tones...so you have a more elongated tone transition from one tone to the next ..more pronounced each tone will be be even though there barraging at you..


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2016 03:56PM by Keith Southern.

Got it, thanks Keith.

A lot of the changes for the good actually,,,tone wise with certain brands/models detectors,,,,got away from the ole beep and dig concept. And this not all directly tied to recovery speed,,but can be.

To see how some detectors,,it seems will time out tonal wise on one target (ferrous) and time in on the nonferrous.

But detectors trying to do such when it comes to moving from a nonferrous to another nonferrous--- even the detectors that do possess bleedy blendy audio,,,they are not so good here in this department.

And trying to employ something like notch to pick out the good vs junk nonferrous targets---- things like chopped audio and such come into play.

A lot of folks thought the F75 was very fast at reporting targets while separating,,,but was it really???

And don't forget,,there in fact was another newer company who was making a truly faster detector across the pond,, and now the cat is out of the bag,,and it seems even other manufacturers are following suit developing detectors with faster(better) reporting of targets tonally.

On second thought I'm gonna go further than "got it, thanks Keith".
Grammar and vocabulary are two things that have driven me nuts since childhood. We all try to use words and punctuation correctly and effectively. However, growing up in East Tennessee the interpretations/definitions of both "correctly" and "effectively" are pretty loose and largely based on who you're conversing with. I don't mean to offend anyone that may hail from or presently reside above the Mason-Dixon line but given the influx of Yankees around these parts, if there are more than two people involved in a conversation, the meanings of "proper grammar and vocabulary" can vary depending on the person speaking at any given moment.

Einstein said "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." With that in mind, you're use of blend and bleed as well as blendy and bleedy (which I'm pretty sure are Keith Southern originals) is brilliant. When I read your post explaining your use of the word bleed I immediately thought of how, when the weather conditions are just right, I can listen to radio stations that are normally out of range and lost in static much in the same way a properly adjusted iron break will allow a co-located/masked non-ferrous target to "bleed" in and raise the conductivity of the ferrous target your hearing just enough to add a squeak of "dig me" to the signal.

In the end I guess this is just a long winded way of saying that your colorful and easy to understand manner of explaining things that are actually very complex enables us mere mortals to remember and apply them when needed so again I'll say "I get it" and "thanks Keith."



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2016 08:32PM by Neugene.

Dial in individual hearing and experience with a unit and we have audio variances no matter what we call them...and yes some guys just have an experienced ear...

Very Good analogy Neugene!!

And thanks for the kind words...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

The short lived new-toned Golden Micromax was the best example of blendy and bleedy audio I have ever used, Keith. When you moved the gold tone's lower edge down into the ferrous range you could identify the flat steel from the nails pretty easily based upon the amount of gold tone that mixed in with the ferrous. It also identified the large iron pretty easily. I took the golden and a xterra to a old mining camp and the xterra was useless in all the big iron and flat steel. But the Golden had no trouble with it.

Another model that has a form of blendy audio is the Bounty Hunter Tracker IV in Tone mode. The break between the low tone and high tone that you moved around as a tone notch did the same thing, it mixed the low and high tone together and you had to listen to which tone was more prominate to help id targets in the blendy range, only it was not as refined as the Golden.

The AT Pro's rolling audio is good. I get some of that with my EuroTek Pro prototype but it is not as pronouced and requires a lot of coil control.

TNSS...it is my experience with the F75 in FA mode that it brings to light non-ferrous targets in heavy ferrous that are invisible in any other operating mode. It is just amazing to me. The F75 with the 11" BiAxial coil in FA mode on 99 sensitivity is an amazing tool in spots with extreme iron. It is my experience that it actually locks on with tone and ID number non-ferrous targets that would otherwise be missed in hot ground. Its not just the FA mode itself, it is also the 11" BiAxial coil characteristics that lend to this ability. The two work together.

HH
Mike

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The short lived new-toned Golden Micromax was the
> best example of blendy and bleedy audio I have
> ever used, Keith. When you moved the gold tone's
> lower edge down into the ferrous range you could
> identify the flat steel from the nails pretty
> easily based upon the amount of gold tone that
> mixed in with the ferrous. It also identified the
> large iron pretty easily. I took the golden and
> a xterra to a old mining camp and the xterra was
> useless in all the big iron and flat steel. But
> the Golden had no trouble with it.
>
> Anollther model that has a form of blendy audio is
> the Bounty Hunter Tracker IV in Tone mode. The
> break between the low tone and high tone that you
> moved around as a tone notch did the same thing,
> it mixed the low and high tone together and you
> had to listen to which tone was more prominate to
> help id targets in the blendy range, only it was
> not as refined as the Golden.
>
> The AT Pro's rolling audio is good. I get some of
> that with my EuroTek Pro prototype but it is not
> as pronouced and requires a lot of coil control.
>
>
> TNSS...it is my experience with the F75 in FA mode
> that it brings to light non-ferrous targets in
> heavy ferrous that are invisible in any other
> operating mode. It is just amazing to me. The
> F75 with the 11" BiAxial coil in FA mode on 99
> sensitivity is an amazing tool in spots with
> extreme iron. It is my experience that it
> actually locks on with tone and ID number
> non-ferrous targets that would otherwise be missed
> in hot ground. Its not just the FA mode itself,
> it is also the 11" BiAxial coil characteristics
> that lend to this ability. The two work
> together.
>
> HH
> Mike


I witnessed some pretty good performance with F75dst unit in FA mode,,,but hot ground???,,, that is the F75s weakness,,don't like mineral,,not like some other detectors...
And Bp mode in hotter ground,,,,big mistake,,Je mode seems to give much better performance generally.

FA mode using it on F75,,, is more near Makro Racer,,but still not there...

It seems the folks in the north east and Midwest do much better with DST F75 units depth wise generally,,,but in coin sized targets here in my neck of the woods,,Not so good.
Now 3 ringers here in my area, you can strike them sorta deep,,,but coin size,,nope.

Now some folks do,,hunt with F70/F75 in some rather hot ground,,and do dig some nice finds,,,,but based on my experiences I would be more likely digging on the whim,,,and in say an old park,,,I would tend to dig on the whim moreso,,,but in other areas not likely.

Granted not all worthy targets provided textbook signals ,,,no matter what detector a person is using--- although some fair better depending on the actual target detecting scenario.

If the F75 handled mineral better,,and had a different setup for how the tones roll in and out-- would be definitely more of a showboat detector,,,but I'm currently taking my chances with a Deus, Makro Racer 2,, White's Mx Sport and the Nokta Relic detectors.

As far as mineral,,,F75 vs MX Sport,,,advantage MX Sport-- based on my tests and hunts,,,did get rid of my F75 though,,but my little test garden,,I remember how the DST F75 responded to my targets.

This Nokta relic detector,,,,I am really liking it.

Had a real short hunt this morning,,,will wait till this evening to post comments,,as I plan on hunting some more additionally late this afternoon.

Cheers



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2016 06:02PM by tnsharpshooter.

Sounds Good Mike on the Golden!!

And yes you are correct on the FA mode on the the F75 it retune so fast Mineral is not looked at long it seems in those first inches and that's awesome in nail and Mineral...I know you hunt that nasty black sand...

Im also Using the SWIFT mode on the Relic in such situations ..very similar to the FA on the F75...I like it on exposed iron in red dirt..

Depth's not everything in machine gun iron just some sort of way to hear what's just below the surface intermingled in bad dirt is ...

Side note Still to date the F75/T2 has gotten me SOME of my deepest button's out of this Dirt I hunt..Just need to listen to the ROUND Burp/Beep...Deep goodies in bad dirt have a different language yet still intelligent....

Good info!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla