MX Sport Audio Modulation, VCO, Iron Grunt, slight hum from backlight

I started to take the newest (3rd one I've tried) MX Sport hunting today but it's too dang hot, so I opted to try it on some surface targets in the driveway.

The results are not wholly acceptable to me but until and unless White's receives enough pressure from MX Sport owners or decides that they are not going to sell enough units until they fix its problems, I think this is where we all stand.

I placed all sorts of targets on the ground. Nickel, clad dime, silver dime, buckle size brass plate, rusted square nail, ihp, clad quarter, minie ball, brass flat button.

Using the supplied headphones, I tried the various functions while in Prospecting, C&J, Relic, and Hi-Trash programs.

At first I thought VCO and Audio Modulation were not working at all. What I found after further testing is that they do affect the operation of the detector. JUST NOT IN A GOOD WAY!

Audio Modulation (option) is supposed to change the volume of the target signal proportional to the distance between the coil and target. Closer, louder; farther away, softer.
What it does on this particular unit, is that as you raise the coil away from the target while swinging over it, a point is reached where the tone goes from a fixed volume and clear to a splattered tone of nearly muted volume. It is not a gradual change with distance. It is an abrupt change at a specific distance. A perfect example, one might say, of how NOT to implement audio modulation in a metal detector. A user of this machine in its present state has one clear choice: DO NOT implement Audio Modulation. It's not just worthless; it is actually detrimental to the operation of this particular MX Sport.

VCO (option); Voltage Controlled Oscillator/Oscillation/(change in pitch) of the signal produced by the target as the distance between the coil and target changes. Closer, higher pitch (frequency); farther away, lower pitch (frequency).
What I describe here is pretty much what everyone familiar with VCO expects in a detector so equipped. My findings, with this MX Sport, is that the actual tone does not change. Rather, there is an accompanying sound, call it a tail or tail out that changes in pitch, but the tail/tail out has a buzzy/noisy aspect to it that could affect one's comprehension of the actual target tone. Again, I have to say that this seems to be a terrible implementation of VCO.

Iron Grunt (option) is suppose to confirm iron targets as iron. I'm still not quite sure how it is suppose to work so I honestly cannot say if it works or not. If it's as bad as Audio Modulation and VCO is on this machine, I may never be able to tell if it does anything or not.

While cycling through the options, I noticed a slight hum in the headphones and traced it to the backlight. When the backlight is on, its circuitry emits a hum that can be heard in the headphones. Only position/selection 5 under the backlight option stops the hum.
If you turn on the backlight while detecting (by tapping the power button), the hum returns and continues until the button is tapped again to turn off the backlight.

Pinpoint function. There is not a lot of frequency range to the pinpoint tone, nor is there a lot of spacial range either. It doesn't reach out and grab the target like some machines/coils do. You pretty much have to get the center bar of the stock coil (that runs from nose to tail) directly over the target for it to pinpoint. Most of the length (from front to back) of that bar is max pinpoint volume, but move the coil left or right just an inch and the target pretty much disappears. This is for targets laying on the ground. It may respond somewhat differently to in-ground targets.

Having said all of the above, I am not convinced that this specific unit has been updated. Mary in Customer Service sounded a bit frazzled when I talked with her last evening. Maybe White's record keeping (or not) is getting the best of her.
If this machine has been updated, it still has issues. My dealer let me listen over the phone last week to a demo unit he had as he tried out the VCO and Audio Modulation functions, and his machine sounded like it was working much better than the machine I just received.

So, it seems there MAY be some machines that check out perfectly fine. The problem, as it appears to me, is that (1) White's can't tell a good machine from a bad one, so you may get a good one or you may get a bad one. Or, (2) White's knows which machines are good and which are bad, but they send them all out, hoping many of the bad machines won't ever come back to them. Personally, I thinks it's some of both.

I'm going to try to speak directly with someone at White's who repairs MX Sports and tell them how the VCO and Audio Modulation sounds on this machine, and mention the hum from the backlight, and see if they can tell me that yes, they CAN and WILL fix the issues if I return the machine to them.

Knowing what I know now, would I repeat my decision to buy an MX Sport? That's a really tough question to answer because I think the MX Sport has a lot to offer, but I think I'd try to wait 6 months to a year and hope some of the known issues are resolved. Will they be? Who knows?

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

I had high hopes for this machine. I am sorry to hear that your machine has these issues.

I had high hopes to for it to, I sold mine, took a bath on it.

Nothing but a total disaster for White's. It sounds to me like their present Engineers haven't a clue.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

Hope White's can pull it together. I was hoping to see them do some kind of updated V3i in a lighter package. A friend of mine uses the V3i and does very well with it.

Bad News......thanks for the well written report....well done!

My main problem for me was the iron grunt in all metal and prospect not working right in all the sat settings. The modulation and vco I didn't care about I just turned off. This detector has great potential. I really liked it. What tipped me over the edge was the cracking and Daniel's was starting to work intermittent after 3 mon. I want this detector to be perfected and all works. I pray White's gets everything worked out.

In the meantime as much as I liked it I decided to move on and got a T2se.

Rick

There are too many detectors out there that kick butt. Forcing yourself to like an inferior product just isn't worth it. I grew up a Whites guy. I would love to see them succeed.That starts with that old Whites quality.

Jackpine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing but a total disaster for White's. It
> sounds to me like their present Engineers haven't
> a clue.

Tell us what you really think

We had a meeting about the screen issue earlier in the week - we're working on it. The thing is there seem to be a lot of machines out there with NO issues. But should have an update for you next week.

tboykin Wrote:
---------------------------
>
> We had a meeting about the screen issue earlier in
> the week - we're working on it. The thing is there
> seem to be a lot of machines out there with NO
> issues. But should have an update for you next
> week.


I hate to say it, but someone is going to start a class action lawsuit.

Machine should never have been released until it was working and built correctly.

I just got mine back and did some testing. I think the problem is relic mode being disc and all metal audio together. Now i havent tested with stereo phones yet but the two audio channels seems to be in battle instead of independent.

So if you go in all metal or prospecting modes vco on and off works great as does iron grunt. Another machine besides at gold with 2 tone all metal! Those options are only available in modes with all metal channel. The modulation only affects disc audio. It does abruptly go from full volume to nothing in 2 inches.

Now if you use relic mode with iron grunt and modulation and/or vco the audio just has too much going on and it crackles cuts in and out etc. Sounds horrible.

tboykin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing is there
> seem to be a lot of machines out there with NO
> issues.

That is the root of many of the problems Tom. This idea that just because casual users do not know what constitutes a properly operating detector means those detectors are ok. The fact is every metal detector manufactured before the latest firmware was applied has the original firmware problems, unless they have been returned since. Just because people are not using the detector or have not noted the problems do not mean they do not exist. Every MX Sport made prior to the May switch in the faceplate material all have faceplates that may develop cracks. Just because the problem has not exhibited itself yet does not mean it does not exist. I personally doubt that the so-called final firmware fix completely addressed all the issues anyway but was simply deemed "good enough".

I sold a lot of detectors in 35 years, more personally than just a handful of others who are alive today. I always figured something like 80% of the detectors I sold only got used a few times if that. Most people buying detectors have never owned one before. And for most it is not the hobby they thought it was, so after a time or two the machine goes into the closet or garage. Others use the machines only a few times a year due to busy lives and competing hobbies. Huge numbers of people buy detectors and never really learn them. These people do not know what a detector is supposed to act like, never having owned one before.

The MX Sport at its worst detects metal. Anyone can take one, go out and it will beep and stuff get found. To those people all is well. They never read the manual, and do not know what half those functions do. To assume all is well because most MX Sport detectors are getting sold to people too uninformed to be aware of the problems is a huge mistake. Leaving these units on dealer shelves knowing a customer is going to get a substandard detector - that is not customer service. It is simply a bet most will go to people who won't figure it out, one less detector to fix.

You seem like a really nice guy Tom, and you have been doing a great job diving in to take the heat and offer explanations where possible. This is not a criticism of you personally. I have tried my best to also continue to give White's the benefit of the doubt. The situation however, as illustrated so well by ncwayne, is that even given multiple chances White's is failing at the job, and it is not just one or two grumblers either. I have never seen anything so bad in my 40 years involvement in metal detecting. Not even close. Yet people seem strangely calm that they are paying White's for the privilege of being beta testers. Me, I get angry just reading about it! I am thankful I spared myself the nonsense by ditching my MX Sport as soon as possible - to a fully informed buyer. I knew the machine was a hot mess that was not going to get fixed anytime soon, but even I had no idea it would progress as far as it has.

tboykin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jackpine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nothing but a total disaster for White's. It
> > sounds to me like their present Engineers
> haven't
> > a clue.
>
> Tell us what you really think
>
> We had a meeting about the screen issue earlier in
> the week - we're working on it. The thing is there
> seem to be a lot of machines out there with NO
> issues. But should have an update for you next
> week.

Is this what you are referring.

This is actually a pic of my unit.

Bought new,,used 5 hours.

Not exposed to any super temp differences,,,maybe 30 degrees tops.

Looks like a material problem,,or a stress problem.

Mine also has crack on lower side as well,,smaller crack.

Unit never exposed to water,,even rain.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2016 12:15AM by tnsharpshooter.

tboykin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jackpine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nothing but a total disaster for White's. It
> > sounds to me like their present Engineers
> haven't
> > a clue.
>
> Tell us what you really think
>
> We had a meeting about the screen issue earlier in
> the week - we're working on it. The thing is there
> seem to be a lot of machines out there with NO
> issues. But should have an update for you next
> week.
There's a lot of machines out there that are not running at their full potential - the operator may not even know it? But I and most everyone here has been swinging all sorts of machines for 30 plus years. We know when a machine isn't running well. FYI - I also found the heart of the creaking sound when you swing. It's the battery/cuff area. It's either the Torx screws are not tight enough or the design is too loose.

tboykin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jackpine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nothing but a total disaster for White's. It
> > sounds to me like their present Engineers
> haven't
> > a clue.
>
> Tell us what you really think
>
> We had a meeting about the screen issue earlier in
> the week - we're working on it. The thing is there
> seem to be a lot of machines out there with NO
> issues. But should have an update for you next
> week.

Sat 8 hasn't cured all the problems. Seems to have created more on some machines? I just don't get it Tom.

Tom Z

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

TNSS -- That's the cracks we are referring to. If I read the above correctly, the problem batch was supposed to be from May. Mine was bought in April though and had the cracks....although they didn't show up til a few months of use.

Has anyone with all the updates able to run modulated audio that works right? I'm talking a totally smooth linear tone from soft to loud. Not in 3 or 4 crackly steps..

Also while I'm at it. IF this MXS was supposed to be an ATpro killer then why doesn't it have at least 40 points of iron disc or more? That is one of the big advantage the Atpro has over a lot of machines. We all saw you had an Atpro in one of your vids and nobody saw that? The Atpro has sweet modulated audio in Pro mode. Did nobody notice that? The Atpro is over a pound lighter. Did nobody feel that? Also out of the 3 MXS's I have in my hands and used the split plastic hand grip were pretty tight on the right side but real loose on the left. This left the grip wide open for sand and plus it just felt bad. Also I don't remember the exact difference but the MXS's 10 inch stock coil is heavier than my 11 inch coil on my etrac. Why? My etrac coil doesn't float.... Also the coil cover has a big gap around it that quickly accepts trash like dirt and sand. I do however really like the big display.

These are the kind of issues I would have brought up if you had sent an MXS prototype to me. Others here would have even done even better!

In addition about 2 years ago Whites said they were flying metal detecting experts to Sweet Home to talk about new machine designs that would help in the advancement of superior machines from Whites. I believe the people in this video were the experts they flew there? One couple admittedly said they just started detecting on their YT channel. I sent this video to Whites in Sweet Home right after it's release and asked if this was their panel of experts? No reply.... If you haven't watched this before I think the MXSport was designed this day.... [www.youtube.com] Some in this video may well be experts but it's obvious some were not.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2016 02:56AM by khouse.

I bought mine 7/7/16 and it had 7 cracks. Everyone is marked for their inspection.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

yep kenny... big issues at whites...steve same thing i said worst release ive seen in almost 40 years detecting for me.. i get mad reading everything about the problems with this MXSPORT.. whites is NOT the same company they used to be.. these machine should NEVER have been released.. no way am i even the slightest bit interested in a whites machine.. i used the mxsport for a day and could instantly tell it was a mess... shame on whites for the horrible early release.. this will learn ya.

Well,
Having a "supposed" waterproof detector with cracks really anywhere--- doesn't make good sense.

I wonder how many of these units in total were subjected to testing,,,or maybe better ask,,how many different units were thrown into the lake.

There are things I really like about the detector.

But for a company to compete---- they need to do better here overall.

Personally,,I think a buy back program should be started and followed through with.

Really this is the only way if done,,,,I would even give the slightest thought to buying another one of their products in the future.

Am I being overly critical???

Don't think so.

I submitted a warranty card for my unit.

Has my phone rang,,asking questions about these cracks??
Nope.

And why hasn't this crack issue,,,what is the holdup for fix.

Daniel has reported on this for a few weeks now.

Andwhy didn't the White's rep here start his own thread talking about the issues with this detector???

I feel like a tester in a way,,,except I paid vs getting paid.

Time to pony up White's,,,get this show on the road.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2016 04:43AM by tnsharpshooter.

Well, while we are piling on I have a few things to mention. First, I would like to say that I do not own an MX Sport nor do I ever intend to. My issue is there seems to be no statements from Whites. I hear crickets. One issue on the Whites forum in March about the blending issue. Whites needs to step up and take responsibility. Why am I commenting? Because I need to be able to trust a company and their desire to stand behind their products. The forums are full of confusion concerning this detector. Well, all but the Whites forum. It seems to get a regular White washing. Show your customers you want to make things right.

I am not piling on.

Just stating the facts,,,with I think some reasonable actions the manufacturer should have already took.

How did this detector get to be such a mess to start with????

I hope all the other manufacturers are taking notes.

So this doesn't happen to them.

it kinda makes the Racer Coils ears 'mountain' seem so insignificant in comparison -

yet, there was Dilek, restoring confidence in their products and customers -

Where is the White's Rep please?

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

No dog in this hunt but comment I must...it us a shame a company held in such long standing regard and respect seems to be in a put out a few fires but whitewash the rest, mode.
TS just put a pic of his cracked unit over there on the White's forum, I wonder how long it will stay in this suspiciously cheerful MX Sport specific forum or will it even be acknowledged.

I believe this is a big part of the problem right here...a quote from the super moderator about the 3-24 firmware update...


"We have updated the Sport firmware to address a concern related to audio on targets in close proximity. In some programs closely spaced targets will lock on as one long tone. This issue has been addressed and the resulting audio now sounds off for each target separately.


While the update will be especially helpful to experienced users, the current version's long-tone "lock-on" audio may be preferable for some users. Updating is at the user's discretion."

Since I have been in this hobby there are many subjects discussed but two things that are the most refered to, mentioned, and compared when talking about detector performance.
Recovery speed and target separation.

I couldn't believe this statement when I read it.
Who are these not so experienced users that would think that one long tone over closely spaced targets would be any kind of advantage?
A gold ring or a silver coin next to a piece of foil giving off one long mixed tone...yea, that is useful.
Not logical for anybody with any amount of experience I would think...or common sense.

Does this company think the not so experienced are that clueless, or is this a planned response to head off a few units from being returned from the hopelessly uninformed?
As Andy said many don't know how a detector is really supposed to work correctly but this is really pushing the credibility button for those that do know a few things.

"No sir...the bumper falling off your new car in your driveway is a feature, not a defect.
Those bumpers are usually only installed at the factory to protect the vehicle during shipping."

The AT Pro had many problems when it came out, the Racer had some too, but after an initial period of confusion and a tiny bit of denial they both manned up, admitted there were problems and got programs installed to fix them and satisfy their customers.

It is not the amount of issues that seem to be wrong with this thing that is the most shocking to me, as much as this seems so out of character for a company with such a great track record, it is the way they are behaving.
Someone who has had three different units sent to him and has been assured every time that all issues had been corrected but it became immediately obvious they were not is not the way to run a business...any business if you want to keep your customer base and grow it.
Head in the sand behavior, denial and obfuscation are not taught in any business school I know of.

I hope it all gets worked out.
A good working problem free unit of this type would probably be a great addition to the marketplace.
If they let this continue on and become an Albatross around their necks this could really hurt them.

We will see.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2016 11:43AM by diggwr27.

Well after sleeping on this issue,,,the only right thing to do is offer to those who want to accept is a buy back program.

If White's doesn't offer one,,,,I think the dealers should boycott them with their products.

This will send a stern message.

This detector I feel definitely should fall under lemon laws.

I mean just how many times does a manufacturer feel is too many times for a detector do go back and forth for problems-- it seems different problems too.

And we are not it seems talking about isolated instance here either.

On another forum,,where I posted pics,,sure enough another person posted a very similar pic with guess what?? Cracks very similar to mine.

I am also begging to wonder,,,just how much shipping costs have been (Wasted) on these units.

There has been some good points and recommendations made on this forum concerning this manufacturer.

I posted my pic of the crack over on the White's forum,,,let's see how long it takes before it is even acknowledged.

I was the one who originally posted what Steve had discovered on their forum,,,they locked my thread,,,and started one of their own to begin putting out the flames.

It seems though,,there are not enough fire extinguishers available to quell this fire.

It is tremendously apparent,,,this detector DIDN'T go through enough rigorous testing.

I will speak to the rest of the manufacturers here.

If you are building a detector,,,one that is designed to operate in an environment that your normally previous manufacturered detectors would not operate in--- go the extra mile,,take the extra time,,TEST the unit in the environments for which it is being marketed.
Don't overlook the obvious.

And by all means,,,don't always pick YES men or women to test your units.

Maybe now we know why it took White's so long to answer with a detector to compete with At Pro!!

Hey diggwr27 you sure had a rough time with forum etiquette last night over at a forum. Using terms such as -- " Put up or shutup. " " .... I should just ignore this idiotic behavior.... " " So Nectar, by the way, are you insane? " " Your ignorance, however, I do find hilarious. " " Man you love to fight, like you are the truth and bullc##p police around " "...your little mind deems unworthy, " " Quit drinking and go read all my posts... " Idiotic, just look at your behavior and failure to grasp the obvious.
Dyslexic...most certainly. "


I didn't respond to your unprovoked attack on me the other day here and there are no hard feelings. Before you give any lessons in forum etiquette to me, please show you have some experience. Best to get things squared up to avoid any future problems.

Getting back on topic here--

I know you guys have been pretty critical of Whites lately in regards to the MXsport. Being a member of the forum there I have been keeping up with all the latest developments. If you receive one there are a few hings you need to do so you know if you have a good working detector. First of all you need to inspect the package when it arrives. Make sure it has not been tampered with.
Whites has no control over what happens between the distributor and you mailing address. If the box seems to be in good shape that is a plus. Next you need to shake the box and see if it was packaged properly to prevent any damage during shipping. Whites can not stress these initial steps enough as they are very important to make sure you receive a detector in the utmost condition. If the initial test were done you are ready to open the box and inspect the unit. There are certain letters and numerals that you need to be aware of to make sure you have a detector that will perform to the standards you expect and need out in the field. Look closely at the detector and if it says ACE 250 you should be good to go.

[forums.whiteselectronics.com]

[metaldetectingforum.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2016 01:24PM by tnsharpshooter.

Hey Kemper...bite me.

more discussion re MX Sport here:

[www.findmall.com]

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [forums.whiteselectronics.com]
> ?76122-My-MX-sport-has-cracks
>
> [metaldetectingforum.com]
> 4506

I am sorry but i cannot understand what they are going on about over on that forum -

They all appear to be singing praise's for the MXS and it appears people are a little gun shy of actually highlighting the issue's for fear of upsetting White's - Oh what a culture - No wonder they missed the boat on the MXS -

It appears they live in fairyland over there, when reality is what's needed -

Sorry no disrespect to White's owners but come on, talk about polishing a turd -

[www.earthscan.co.nz]