Need Help with PI Detector Choice

Looking to add a PI detector for hunting jewelry in and out of water. Want it to be sensitive to small, emi resistant, rugged and dependable. Have been looking at the Garrett ATX, the Minelab SDC 2300, and Whites Dual Field. Are there other choices I have missed that might be better in one way or another? It seems to be a lot to ask to get what I want all in one detector.

Anyone got any thoughts?

ATX--plus Garrett probably has best customer service in industry. IF White's had any foresight they would have made the TDI PRO waterproof and had the best,but----- so they built the waterproof MXT Sport instead and?????

Garrett Infinium

Simple, powerful (sensitive), rugged.

Mine found a light wire staple, as used for stapling a couple sheets of paper, about 6 inches deep in the dry sand at VA Beach a week ago. It found several nickels and other coins searching in the lip of the surf under 2 to 8 inches of water.


Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2016 12:06AM by ncwayne.

EMI - Detectors and Electro Magnetic Interference
Posted by: steve herschbach [ Send a Message ]
Date: September 15, 2013 12:18PM
Registered: 10 years ago
Posts: 2,159
This is getting to be a big problem, one that basically did not exist for me years ago. Cell phones, Bluetooth, wireless this and wireless that, EMI is everywhere and getting worse.

Detectors are radio receivers and so how to pick up that very faint target signal while excluding this blizzard of EMI is a chore for the engineers. Some detectors seem very resistant, others not so much.

I let three detectors I very much liked go away because of EMI issues. The Fisher F75, Garrett Infinium, and White's V3i. The Infinium was less an issue as it is not so much intended for urban use. The F75 I did use a lot out of town, but finally the fact it was useless in town made me let it go. The V3i in particular irritates me as I love the detector and really want to own one and use it, but I just got tired of turning it in, trying all the tuning tricks, then putting it back in the truck. It just is not worth the battle when I can just grab another detector that works just fine where the others will not.

From now on the ability to ignore or easily tune out EMI is tops on my list of requirements. I do not care how great a detector is in theory - if it will not operate in my own front yard then the heck with it. The only detectors that I give a pass are those made and marketed solely for prospecting as extreme sensitivity and remote areas define that category. But even the prospectors know about EMI and the days when you may as well turn the detector off.

All machines have EMI issues in certain times and places. But what detectors were so bad you just gave up and got rid of a detector you would otherwise have kept? If you had a detector you liked, but let go solely because of EMI issues, please take this opportunity to let people know. My goal here is not to bash or otherwise beat up on any detector or brand. But this is a serious issue and time we start making notes on it. Telling people they are not tuning their detectors right is not the answer either. I do not have to tune my cell phone properly to eliminate EMI and I am not going to fight detectors any more on this issue. They need to be designed with easy means for dealing with EMI or go back to the drawing board. At the very least, offer an anti-interference coil for models prone to EMI issues.


Minelab GPZ 7000, CTX 3030; Makro Gold Racer, Racer 2; Garrett ATX; White's DFX/BigFoot; XP Deus

Reply Quote Report
avatar
Mine ..........
Posted by: Elton [ Send a Message ]
Date: September 15, 2013 01:14PM
Moderator
Registered: 10 years ago
Posts: 15,269
F75 standard ............Issue some places

F75 LTD Camo ..Could not operate it in the city at all...TERRIBLE

F75 LTD BLACK....operated most places ok..Near a cell phone tower or having a cell phone on my belt really hurt it bad...
Most schools were out due to all the new electronic communications for the student.. Dish networks just drove it crazy.

V3i. I'm new to this machine but see right off EMI is a factor........ Hope it can be set to eliminate most EMI. If I see no improvement soon I will move it on..I am in a big city

T2.No EMI Issues

Coinstrike NONE

SePro..........very few places caused it to fluctuate in sounds. Worked almost everywhere with no problems Noise cancel usually solved the problem in all but extreme places.

E-Trac..No Issues at all..........

There really isn't a perfect all in one detector. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. A PI will drive you nutz in many hunting situations. I have three and I know all about nuts. Spend some time talking and watching and get what the most successful people are using to find what you want to hunt. Excal is king where I beach hunt. Jewelry is much easier with a top vlf, again see what the successful hunters are using. That said, one is better off learning one machine well and most machines can be used most anywhere- they just won't be the most effective one for the job in all circumstances. Glad to have cleared that up for you.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Thank you all for chiming in. As noted, no detector is perfect of course. Of the three I am looking at, the ATX appears to handle EMI best while maintaining superior sensitivity. It has a most unfortunate non-ergonomic package, but the guts look good to me. The Minelab has the most sensitivity, but not as good with EMI and has some peculiar go nuts moments and some battery box problems that Minelab never sorted out apparently. The Dual field is a decent option at a better price, but the future of Whites is an open question and the Otter box thing that exposes the guts to change batteries is not appealing.

So, there will be a compromise. Of course there will be, no detector does it all. Why American manufacturers refuse to put good detectors into ergonomic packages is beyond me, but the choices are what they are.

As to the VLF vs PI, this is not either/or for me. I have VLFs I am happy with and want PI for special applications where VLF falls down.

William Monday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EMI - Detectors and Electro Magnetic Interference
> Posted by: steve herschbach [ Send a Message ]
> Date: September 15, 2013 12:18PM
> Registered: 10 years ago
> Posts: 2,159
> This is getting to be a big problem, one that
> basically did not exist for me years ago. Cell
> phones, Bluetooth, wireless this and wireless
> that, EMI is everywhere and getting worse.
>
> Detectors are radio receivers and so how to pick
> up that very faint target signal while excluding
> this blizzard of EMI is a chore for the engineers.
> Some detectors seem very resistant, others not so
> much.
>
> I let three detectors I very much liked go away
> because of EMI issues. The Fisher F75, Garrett
> Infinium, and White's V3i. The Infinium was less
> an issue as it is not so much intended for urban
> use. The F75 I did use a lot out of town, but
> finally the fact it was useless in town made me
> let it go. The V3i in particular irritates me as I
> love the detector and really want to own one and
> use it, but I just got tired of turning it in,
> trying all the tuning tricks, then putting it back
> in the truck. It just is not worth the battle when
> I can just grab another detector that works just
> fine where the others will not.
>
> From now on the ability to ignore or easily tune
> out EMI is tops on my list of requirements. I do
> not care how great a detector is in theory - if it
> will not operate in my own front yard then the
> heck with it. The only detectors that I give a
> pass are those made and marketed solely for
> prospecting as extreme sensitivity and remote
> areas define that category. But even the
> prospectors know about EMI and the days when you
> may as well turn the detector off.
>
> All machines have EMI issues in certain times and
> places. But what detectors were so bad you just
> gave up and got rid of a detector you would
> otherwise have kept? If you had a detector you
> liked, but let go solely because of EMI issues,
> please take this opportunity to let people know.
> My goal here is not to bash or otherwise beat up
> on any detector or brand. But this is a serious
> issue and time we start making notes on it.
> Telling people they are not tuning their detectors
> right is not the answer either. I do not have to
> tune my cell phone properly to eliminate EMI and I
> am not going to fight detectors any more on this
> issue. They need to be designed with easy means
> for dealing with EMI or go back to the drawing
> board. At the very least, offer an
> anti-interference coil for models prone to EMI
> issues.
>
>
> Minelab GPZ 7000, CTX 3030; Makro Gold Racer,
> Racer 2; Garrett ATX; White's DFX/BigFoot; XP
> Deus
>
> Reply Quote Report
> avatar
> Mine ..........
> Posted by: Elton [ Send a Message ]
> Date: September 15, 2013 01:14PM
> Moderator
> Registered: 10 years ago
> Posts: 15,269
> F75 standard ............Issue some places
>
> F75 LTD Camo ..Could not operate it in the city at
> all...TERRIBLE
>
> F75 LTD BLACK....operated most places ok..Near a
> cell phone tower or having a cell phone on my belt
> really hurt it bad...
> Most schools were out due to all the new
> electronic communications for the student.. Dish
> networks just drove it crazy.
>
> V3i. I'm new to this machine but see right off EMI
> is a factor........ Hope it can be set to
> eliminate most EMI. If I see no improvement soon I
> will move it on..I am in a big city
>
> T2.No EMI Issues
>
> Coinstrike NONE
>
> SePro..........very few places caused it to
> fluctuate in sounds. Worked almost everywhere with
> no problems Noise cancel usually solved the
> problem in all but extreme places.
>
> E-Trac..No Issues at all..........

If you have copied that post from the D&P forum you might want to ask the owner first as he request that people ask first,

Slag,
The TDI would be perfect for a PI if waterproof. Too bad it is not. Handles EMI very well. My favorite is the Mirage PI built by Sven, who uses this forum. Check out his site at Treasurelinx.com. Machine can be set for small gold or normal beach hunting. Control box is wrapped in copper sheeting to help control EMI issues. Sven only makes a few units a year, but having the ability to set the pulse rate as low as 10 Us is awesome on fine gold items. I would never consider letting mine go...Stuart

I would go garret infinium or whites df....or tdx if you don't mind spending the cash. Too bad whites won't create a waterproof tdi...it would be in my arsenal. I know Eric foster is working on some new stuff I wonder if he will release a new pi?

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC

Another possibility is the Garrett Seahunter with the 8''Mono coil,nice machine for jewellery hunting on the beach,i use both the Garrett 8'' and 14''x10 coil on my Crossbow PI as well,for a general all round beach machine that is non waterproof the TDI Pro is a hard machine to beat.

Finding a machine that ticks all your boxes could well be a tough task,no one machine does it all as they say,good luck anyway.

Wayne,
It was fun having you and your wife stay with us at Va. Beach. Gravediggermax (Tuffy), got us on a YouTube video. Although I got a little gold and silver, you had the best find with the returned ring. Nothing feels as good as returning an item to someone that it means so much to them. Congratulations...Stuart

Thanks, Stuart.
Always a pleasure getting together with you for some detecting. You and Shasha were very gracious hosts and we enjoyed our visit. Thanks for the comments on the returned ring. Yes, it was a very moving moment for all of us. I was actually feeling I was letting them down until the moment I found it. That was a wonderful feeling!

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Thanks to everyone for a nice discussion and some good ideas. Going to take some time with the decision, there is no particular hurry at the moment. I wanted to throw it out where some good water hunter hang and see if there was anything missing. The Mirage would be a wonderful choice as well, have talked to Sven about this. A great guy who is always happy to answer questions, and gives some of the most intelligent answers a person is likely to find anywhere. The Mirage is a detector I hope to buy no matter what else I have whenever one might become available. I just really like the idea of it and the guy who makes it.

Slag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks to everyone for a nice discussion and some
> good ideas. Going to take some time with the
> decision, there is no particular hurry at the
> moment. I wanted to throw it out where some good
> water hunter hang and see if there was anything
> missing. The Mirage would be a wonderful choice as
> well, have talked to Sven about this. A great guy
> who is always happy to answer questions, and gives
> some of the most intelligent answers a person is
> likely to find anywhere. The Mirage is a detector
> I hope to buy no matter what else I have whenever
> one might become available. I just really like the
> idea of it and the guy who makes it.

I own a non waterproof version of the Mirage and its a really lovely PI machine too use,i mainly use it with the 5'' coil and deadly on small gold jewellery when running in SG mode,if Sven has some available which he does occasionally grab one as they are that good,the waterproof version is the one that i would go for especially if you are hunting for jewellery.

Check out a Detector Pro, less money, deep ,sensitive, water proof light weight and the best kept secret in detector using. I don't water hunt any more but when I did its what I prefered.

In the water and I assume salt water how deep can you really dig a hole? In the mid Atlantic area where I hunt mother nature is creating turmoil and filling in the holes as fast as you can dig them sometimes. I have a dual field which is on the cheap end of PI units and it is more than capable of any water hunting. Fresh water would be a nightmare for a PI. Too much trash and junk.

If it has to be a water PI then the ATX is good, but if not then the TDI Pro or the SL gets my Vote The Pro has killer battery life and has a faster sweep speed which doesn't matter that much when water detecting,

But remember that you get more depth on the TDI Pro with the GB off and on the SL you get more depth with it On,

hope this helps,

John.

Thanks John and Goodmore and Hobo. Of that bunch the ATX looks especially interesting. I have been wondering how accurate the low/high high/low tone id and iron check are and if that capability is worth the cost difference from the Dual Field as suggested by Goodmore which comes so highly recommended by many. The ATX looks heavy and clunky and expensive, but if the performance value is there then the poor ergonomics could be worked around in interest of increased efficiency. But the Dual Field is a proven performer and reasonably priced by comparison, it might take a long time for the ATX to recoup the price difference. The Otter box thing and battery placement of the Dual Field are an old design that could use updating to say the least, but seems to work.

For what I want it for, it has to be PI, and it has to be waterproof. That limits the choices of PI for sure, but it will amount to a compromise in any case. I am keeping an eye on the used market too, and it may eventually come down to a bit of luck finding a good deal as well and just get something inexpensive to use for now with an eye to the future. For where I want it to go, even the Sea Hunter would probably work well enough for a while.

The resistance to EMI is important though too, which adds another layer of complexity to the choice. There, it appears the ATX shines according to some video I saw on YouTube where they were using it under power lines in Australia. Here is another instance where the Mirage is also a very good choice. It is a lot to ask for all in one detector. It may come down to needing more than one to make it all work the way I want.

As of lately I'm a bit into PI units myself.

Just fell in love with the SDC2300 for the word go.
Recently aquired a Dual Field and seriously thinking about a TDI.

We can only get the TDI SL here in Europe, sure would like to know if the threshold and VCO tone is as buttery smooth as the vids on youtube of the TDI Pro.

The Dual Field really likes the swash zone, it seems to totally ignore seawater. Makes for quiet stressless hunting.
However on the wet beach I'd like a unit that responds to the ground. I like hearing the mineral. Makes it easier to get your coil control and sweep speed spot on for the deepies.

HH
Johnb

scoopjohnb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As of lately I'm a bit into PI units myself.
>
> Just fell in love with the SDC2300 for the word
> go.
> Recently aquired a Dual Field and seriously
> thinking about a TDI.
>
> We can only get the TDI SL here in Europe, sure
> would like to know if the threshold and VCO tone
> is as buttery smooth as the vids on youtube of the
> TDI Pro.
>
> The Dual Field really likes the swash zone, it
> seems to totally ignore seawater. Makes for quiet
> stressless hunting.
> However on the wet beach I'd like a unit that
> responds to the ground. I like hearing the
> mineral. Makes it easier to get your coil control
> and sweep speed spot on for the deepies.

The TDI SL is smoother than any PI or VLF when you run it flat out even in the City, It is very good. I got a friend to post my Video on his channel.

Try this Video I did when there was bad EMI on this Day,, Using the TDI Pro and the TDI SL and the MXT All Pro just to show how bad the EMI was,

[www.youtube.com]

Hope this helps, John



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2016 11:49AM by auminesweeper.

Thx a bunch.

Mandatory viewing this evening :-)

TDI Pro sounds like my minelabs, steady threshold, but the occassional waver. You get use to it.
I guess the TDI SL will be next on the list to try out, it just sounds SWéét.

HH
Johnb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2016 07:51PM by scoopjohnb.

scoopjohnb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thx a bunch.
>
> Mandatory viewing this evening :-)
>
> TDI Pro sounds like my minelabs, steady threshold,
> but the occassional waver. You get use to it.
> I guess the TDI SL will be next on the list to try
> out, it just sounds SWéét.

Sorry about how loud they are but I recorded it with my phone and everything is either a whisper or blasting your ears off, The Video was shot in the City and there is a Subway Train line directly below where it was filmed along with Infrared Alarms and Cell Towers etc, so it could not get any worse and yet Both TDI's were pretty Good,

John.

auminesweeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The TDI SL is smoother than any PI or VLF when you
> run it flat out even in the City, It is very good.
> I got a friend to post my Video on his channel.
>
> Try this Video I did when there was bad EMI on
> this Day,, Using the TDI Pro and the TDI SL and
> the MXT All Pro just to show how bad the EMI was,
>
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> Hope this helps, John

Thats TDI Pro that you own is a very nice looking machine,infact it looks brand new,would make a very good hoard hunting machine especially with some big Mono coils on it.

Junk and Disorderly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> auminesweeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > The TDI SL is smoother than any PI or VLF when
> you
> > run it flat out even in the City, It is very
> good.
> > I got a friend to post my Video on his channel.
> >
> > Try this Video I did when there was bad EMI on
> > this Day,, Using the TDI Pro and the TDI SL and
> > the MXT All Pro just to show how bad the EMI
> was,
> >
> > [www.youtube.com]
> >
> > Hope this helps, John
>
> Thats TDI Pro that you own is a very nice looking
> machine,infact it looks brand new,would make a
> very good hoard hunting machine especially with
> some big Mono coils on it.

Yeah I am sure that if it's there it will find it, I am amazed just how smooth That TDI Pro runs when it runs flat out and it does have some serious power, It is the Nice PI ever made, Every thing about ticks all the boxes, I would go as far to say that It is about the best detector I have ever owned, The Battery life and the power output is great and it is a very flexible machine, It is like a Giant MXT, and the Balance is a work of Art..

John