What did I do? I bought a Tesoro Outlaw ><

All this talk about Tesoro's lately, plus seeing Monte demonstrate one at his WTHO ghost town trip last year, and a friend that does pretty well with his, made me take in interest in trying one. I've been keeping my eyes out for a deal on a Bandido 2 umax, but instead got a good deal on a Tesoro Outlaw with the 8" Coil.

Aside from my old Sovereign (which had the Sunray DTI2 meter), I've never used a machine without a display/meter, so this will be different. Will test it at that western frontier site Tom and I detected with good success, and see how it does.

Any tricks or tips anyone wants to share about this machine would be greatly appreciated.

hh,
Brian

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this talk about Tesoro's lately, plus seeing
> Monte demonstrate one at his WTHO ghost town trip
> last year, and a friend that does pretty well with
> his, made me take in interest in trying one. I've
> been keeping my eyes out for a deal on a Bandido 2
> umax, but instead got a good deal on a Tesoro
> Outlaw with the 8" Coil.
>
> Aside from my old Sovereign (which had the Sunray
> DTI2 meter), I've never used a machine without a
> display/meter, so this will be different. Will
> test it at that western frontier site Tom and I
> detected with good success, and see how it does.
>
>
> Any tricks or tips anyone wants to share about
> this machine would be greatly appreciated.
>
> hh,
> Brian

Well Brian, I did the field test on the Outlaw for Tesoro. One tip is to use the 3 position toggle switch instead of the red retune button until you get a better understanding of using it. I use the Auto (all-metal) switch position when I turn on the detector, if left in Disc position it is detuned and will give poor results in air testing because of the stupid retune button. Just leave the retune button alone, or do as I did and learn it's quirks. For instance...if you turn on the detector in the Disc. position and do not fully depress retune button or do a reset of the threshold by toggling to the Auto position then back to Disc....it will give poor results air testing. Run the ground balance as directed in the manual, I have mild ground and run my GB neutral where the is no change in the threshold sound level as coil is pumped toward the ground. In more mineralized soil a negative GB is better suited, read Monte's "power balancing". I have been getting great depth in my soil using the 8" coil, exceeding the coil diameter measurement by several inches.

What's the difference, if any, between the Outlaw and Bandito 2 umax?

Quote
Detectorist
What's the difference, if any, between the Outlaw and Bandito 2 umax?

First, the "umax" is not a 'u' letter but a 'µ' symbol for the electronic term 'micro' so the description is pronounced 'microMAX' to refer to the smaller-size housing. The Outlaw uses the same housing and shares essentially the same basic circuitry with a few little differences. They also share the same search coils.

The main differences between these models are that the Bandido II microMAX has two toggles on the control face-plate. One is a 3-position toggle to select the silent-search, motion-based Discriminate mode, a Threshold-based All Metal mode, and a momentary position for Manual Retune to restore the Threshold audio. The other toggle is 2-position to select either a 'Normal' function in All Metal mode so the operator can manually 'Retune' to restore the Threshold audio, or 'Auto' to select a fast-speed Auto-Tune in the All Metal mode to continuously restore the Threshold audio hum.

In place of these separate functions, the Outlaw uses a 2-Position push-button, activated with either a full firm press on the button as one position, or a partial depression to activate the other function. These presses can work for manual Retune or activate the Auto-tune. Personally, having used a few Outlaws and then buying one to try and learn it, I just didn't care for the Pushbutton over the tried-and-true toggle switch design of the Bandido II microMAX.

Also, with the Bandido II µMAX you can toggle back-and-forth between the two search modes or just use the All Metal mode to quickly Pinpoint a target, then switch back to the Discriminate mode and continue searching without any impairment of operation. This isn't true with the Outlaw due to how the circuitry was tied in with the 2-position Push-button. When completed with any use of the All Metal mode or Pinpointing a target located in the Disc. mode, before you can switch back to Discrimination and continue searching, you mush pause and hold the search coil in the air/away from the ground or metal, and press-and-release the Pushbutton to restore the full performance and Sensitivity function in the Discriminate mode.

Another notable difference between the two is that with the Outlaw I hear a slightly lower-pitched audio response compared with the higher-pitch of the Bandido II µMAX which I happen to hear better due to my hearing loss. Otherwise, they both feature the same ED-120 range of acceptance in the Discriminate mode and, as I stated earlier, they work essentially the same. It is just a matter of preference, and I know that I prefer the earlier offering, and most of the detecting folks I meet who have, or have had, an Outlaw feel the same way. The generally disliked feature of the Outlaw is the darned Push-button requirements. I only know, personally, maybe three people who like the Outlaw enough to keep it and occasionally use it, but not as their primary-use detector.

Monte

Thanks for the info Randy and Monte.

I read about the Outlaw prior to getting it, and basically the only difference between the Bandido II µMAX & the Outlaw was the retune button. I'll have to play around with that to see how it works and what benefits it has. As Monte said, some like it, some don't. I'd assume that if you'd used Tesoro's before, you might not like it as you're used to the original way, and if you haven't, then perhaps you will. I think if I use a DD coil on it, then I won't care about pinpointing as it's easy enough to drag & wiggle the coil past the target to determine where it is, but that wouldn't work on the concentric coil.

Monte regarding the audio, this is what I read about it prior to the purchase:

"The audio is what gets me on this machine. A stock or low tone Vaquero has an audio of 293HZ.
The Outlaw has an audio with 630HZ, the same as the silver µmax which by the way sounds great to me, probably the nicest pitch/tone I have heard in a Tesoro.
Not only that, but remember all the guys (including myself) that moved up to a Vaquero from the silver and discovered that the HOT technology just doesn't relay target info like the µmax seies?
The Vaquero has treated me very well with many nice finds, but some days I feel like I am listening to a duck on it's death bed when I listen to it.
In the future I can see myself trying this machine out for sure. "

Audio is pretty subjective, but it seems more inline with what I'd enjoy listening to, and being that it only has one tone, I assume there's no blendy/bleedy audio conveyance.

Also it has the infamous ED120 disc circuit on it, which I've read is stellar in iron. For detecting in iron patches, on my Racers and F75 for example, I run almost zero discrimination as to hear the iron and not miss any targets. What's the general consensus for running the Tesoro in heavy iron, disc it out, or run near zero disc? I was thinking perhaps just to disc out small nails, but then again it can be valuable feedback to hear nails so you know you're in an area with human influence, and hopefully human drops.

Looking forward to putting the Outlaw through it's paces when it arrives.

HH,
Brian

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the info Randy and Monte.
>
> I read about the Outlaw prior to getting it, and
> basically the only difference between the Bandido
> II µMAX & the Outlaw was the retune button. I'll
> have to play around with that to see how it works
> and what benefits it has. As Monte said, some
> like it, some don't. I'd assume that if you'd
> used Tesoro's before, you might not like it as
> you're used to the original way, and if you
> haven't, then perhaps you will. I think if I use
> a DD coil on it, then I won't care about
> pinpointing as it's easy enough to drag & wiggle
> the coil past the target to determine where it is,
> but that wouldn't work on the concentric coil.
>
> Monte regarding the audio, this is what I read
> about it prior to the purchase:
>
> "The audio is what gets me on this machine. A
> stock or low tone Vaquero has an audio of 293HZ.
> The Outlaw has an audio with 630HZ, the same as
> the silver µmax which by the way sounds great to
> me, probably the nicest pitch/tone I have heard in
> a Tesoro.
> Not only that, but remember all the guys
> (including myself) that moved up to a Vaquero from
> the silver and discovered that the HOT technology
> just doesn't relay target info like the µmax
> seies?
> The Vaquero has treated me very well with many
> nice finds, but some days I feel like I am
> listening to a duck on it's death bed when I
> listen to it.
> In the future I can see myself trying this machine
> out for sure. "
>
> Audio is pretty subjective, but it seems more
> inline with what I'd enjoy listening to, and being
> that it only has one tone, I assume there's no
> blendy/bleedy audio conveyance.
>
> Also it has the infamous ED120 disc circuit on it,
> which I've read is stellar in iron. For detecting
> in iron patches, on my Racers and F75 for example,
> I run almost zero discrimination as to hear the
> iron and not miss any targets. What's the general
> consensus for running the Tesoro in heavy iron,
> disc it out, or run near zero disc? I was
> thinking perhaps just to disc out small nails, but
> then again it can be valuable feedback to hear
> nails so you know you're in an area with human
> influence, and hopefully human drops.
>
> Looking forward to putting the Outlaw through it's
> paces when it arrives.
>
> HH,
> Brian


Don't get too wrapped up in that Outlaw, Brian.---You're going to be busy testing the Impact for us!!-------Seriously---the Outlaw was/is an "ok" machine---except for that crazy red re-tune button.---You can get around that "problem" though.----------Del

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Also it has the infamous ED120 disc circuit on it,
> which I've read is stellar in iron. For detecting
> in iron patches, on my Racers and F75 for example,
> I run almost zero discrimination as to hear the
> iron and not miss any targets. What's the general
> consensus for running the Tesoro in heavy iron,
> disc it out, or run near zero disc? I was
> thinking perhaps just to disc out small nails, but
> then again it can be valuable feedback to hear
> nails so you know you're in an area with human
> influence, and hopefully human drops.

The ED 120 disc circuit is knocking out small nails when set at MIN, my suggestion is to start there. Larger iron like cast iron pieces the size of a silver dollar are harder to disc. out, generally coming in at dime to quarter. This is a good trait as larger iron in some places equal guns, knifes, bayonetes etc. Like I said in my prior post, use the 3 position MODE switch instead of the retune button, set it to rum a little bit negative ground balance and you will do fine with it.

HH
Randy

Hey gang, I've used the Silver Sabre for ghost-townsy see through needs. And .... sure .... they see a coin under a nail oft-times that power machines might miss. But of course that comes with less depth, and less bells & whistles TID's that are sometimes fun to hunt with . But yes: Those 2-filter mono-tone machines have their place in some hunting environments.

But in my experience, they tend to be weak on larger iron. Things like larger (domino sized and larger) caste-iron chunks. Or soldered can bottoms, etc... So if Brian were to increase his iron disk, to try to combat some of that, I'm assuming this going to start to negate his iron-see through objective, right ? Because the "western frontier" site that he alludes to does have a lot of such larger iron there.

In other words: Let's say that someone sets their disc. knob to where it JUST starts to knock out individual nails. Then it would seem that this would allow him the most opportunity to get the most out of "averaging", to allow a coin underneath it to "bleed through". Right ? However, if he ups his disc. more to help eliminate pesky larger iron, then logically he risks missing coins under nails now. Right ?

Have I sized this up correctly ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2016 08:32PM by Tom_in_CA.

Tom, You sized it up exactly. You can run the disc at minimum on the Bandido or Outlaw to eliminate nails but as you increase the disc, you also increase the chance of missing another target being masked by the iron.