What New, High-end Machines are Expected Next Year?

Whatever is coming down the road,,,,,I certainly hope detector " weight" is taken seriously.

No need for " heavy" detectors.

Detectorist Wrote:
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> I'm more concerned with finding good sites. We've
> had plenty of rain....


X2 on more sites.. Just about ready to cash in my chips on detecting,will keep a couple though.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

lytle78 Wrote:
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> Over on Steve H's forum, there was a post about
> how Minelab spent $10 million on development of
> the GPZ7000. I did a few guesstimates of how this
> could be broken down. Below, I have copied what I
> came up with and posted at Steve's place.
>
> Think about what it takes to design and build a
> truly NEW platform. These only come along every
> decade or so. No disrespect to XP, Nokta and
> others with innovative packaging and fine-tuning
> of existing VLF IB detecting platforms, but these
> are not radically new - they are improvements
> (even significant ones) of existing technology.
>
> New breakthroughs like the GPZ take multi-year
> efforts by dedicated teams of top engineers. Guess
> how many companies have those kind of resources
> and are willing to "bet the farm" on something
> which, in the end, might not live up to
> expectations and flop in the market - hint - there
> are at least two.
>
> About the $10million number. It is quite credible
> in my view. An engineer probably costs somewhare
> in the neighborhood of $150,000/year - based on
> salary, benefits, facility, equipment, it support,
> etc.
>
> if you subtract some number from the $10m for
> material, supplies, specialized equipment etc -
> let's say $2m.
>
> the remaining $8m - divided by 5 years - gives us
> the "burn rate" per year - $1.6m
>
> Divide that number by $150,000 and you get 10.66
> engineers.
>
> Someone (not in ML) recently told me that ML
> likely had about 20 engineers in metal detection.
> Using about half of them full time for five years
> in GPZ development and pre-production seems highly
> plausible.

But I am positive that they can do this quite easily by reducing their costs incurred by off-setting a good portion of their manufacturing in Malaysia - With all the problems recently experienced by Whites and their MX Sport, perhaps they too should up their game and manufacture off-shore as well -

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

Manufacture is not the problem. With parts pick automation and automated test, touch labor is a tiny part of the fiinal cost,

It's the $ 2-10 million up front - for something which might not sell at all - that is the killer. Just check With Minelab, their Go Find debacle is a prime example - millions gone and you can't give the darmed things away - their sales figures for FY 16 look OK because they crammed tons of them into the distribution chain - where they sit. Supposedly their North American Chief was the guy behind the idea. He doesn't work there anymore - I'm told.

Not picking on ML - everybody gets it wrong sometime, but it's the huge investment in "non-recurring engineering" which is the killer.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2016 01:58AM by lytle78.

If Xp tried to launch a gimmick,,like the go find--- would be another belly flop.

There is something in a name,,once a manufacturer makes some great performer(s) ---- and manufacturers need to realize this.

Trying to expand market base with gimmicks--- taboo.

Successful manufacturers always need to remember how they got to where they are---- and stay with it.

Companies can either seek cheap manufacturing of their products, 'pile them high and sell them cheap' flood the market and incur all the warranty costs/ issues etc and hope for a profit.
Or manufacture a top quality item (if you have found a niche then even better) which, will cost more to produce but with a higher ticket price and better return per unit sold, and little warranty returns.

Well designed products can be manufactured cheaply out of high quality materials and can prove reliable and long lasting. The key is WELL DESIGNED. For a metal detector, this includes good electronic engineering, good mechanical engineering, good purchasing of quality components and a rigorous quality system which ensures that the whole process yields products that meet specifications.

A high rate of warranty returns is a sign that the product design is flawed.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I thought I read in the same article that the Go Find series is Codan's current #1 selling machine? If that is the case, I don't see it as being too big of a flop. I personally don't know anyone that has one and was surprised to read there in there. I did take note of the lower priced gold machine they spoke of though; to be offered to the African market. Maybe that will find its way outside of Africa and be a pretty good machine. Looking at their statement though; doesn't look like we can expect anything else from Minelab until at least 2018.

It will be interesting seeing what other models come out this coming year, but I've already decided that getting on new and different sites is where it's at. I made excuses for far too long and if anything, these Facebook groups have put my feet to the fire for wanting to get out. Cause the other folks aren't making excuses....they are getting out there and finding stuff. Every day. Every weekend.

Codan (Minelab) - like most companies, reports sales as "sell in" this is when they ship to a distributor or dealer and bill them for it. "Sell through" is when a customer buys from a dealer. Codan's annual report cited high sales of the Go Find. This was most likely on the basis of "sell in".

Here's a link about the difference if anyone is interested.

[smallbusiness.chron.com]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I am also wondering why the Minelab Go Find series is regarded as a flop?

No disrespect to you Rick as other respected members have also called them Go Flops & white elephants BUT I disagree that they are as bad as they have been made out. - A Minelab at that price was previously unheard of until the Go Finds came out - Sure its not everyone's cup of tea but Minelab introduced an affordable option designed for the young and those entering the hobby.

Did they fail? - Personally I don't think so

They brought a compact unit that could be easily folded for transporting/storing (new concept)

It also incorporated blue-tooth to work in with smart phones (new concept) - making it easy to assist newbies on a hunt

The general performance for the money was a lot better than most expected

If the Minelab Go Find is a flop then the Whites MXS must be close to being a turd on a stick, but yet we do not here about how big a flop that high end unit has been

Why is the Go Find such a flop? - It could have been a lot worse for Minelab if they paid top dollar to have them manufactured in Australia, so their R & D took a spanking if anything however manufacturing costs would have been a lot less than having them made at home.

Finally, have I missed a software issue or a design fault with the Go Find series? - I have one and my 8yr old daughter loves it and its the only one I have ever managed to get her to show some interest in when it comes to the hobby, so IMHO its done what it was designed to do. Attract the younger ones to the hobby & its not too shabby for the older ones on a budget

Cheers

Vincent

[www.earthscan.co.nz]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2016 01:27PM by rustic charm.

Only the Europeans seem keen on adding a hodograph ,all others seem scared of hodographs

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
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> Whatever is coming down the road,,,,,I certainly h
> ope detector " weight" is taken seriously.
>
> No need for " heavy" detectors.

Exactly a telescopic carbon fibre stemis favourite ...but why do we still have the sections of metal tubing with holes and spring catches around ..??makers can buy in CF tele tubes .must be cheaper than fabricating bits of metal tubing

Yep, my 'european' detector came with a telescope carbon shaft, wirless headphones, covers, 2 coils, charger and batteries, 5yr guarantee on the electronics, switchable khz-8khz/18khz and so far no 'return to base' issues or firmware repairs etc, deep and fast and at under £400 it was a steal !







diggers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Whatever is coming down the road,,,,,I certainly
> h
> > ope detector " weight" is taken seriously.
> >
> > No need for " heavy" detectors.
>
> Exactly a telescopic carbon fibre stemis favourite
> ...but why do we still have the sections of metal
> tubing with holes and spring catches around ..??ma
> kers can buy in CF tele tubes .must be cheaper tha
> n fabricating bits of metal tubing

Gh, is the Nexus credo you're referring to. Sounds great, but details would be intreesting.

Regards

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

lytle78 Wrote:
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> Gh, is the Nexus credo you're referring to. Sound
> s great, but details would be intreesting.
>
> Regards


Sounds like a Golden Mask to me

Yes it's the little Golden Mask 5, handy wee detector.
They also sell the carbon shaft separate for folk wanting to convert there existing detectors, it costs €90.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2016 08:03AM by ghound.

diggers Wrote:
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> Only the Europeans seem keen on adding a hodograph
> ,all others seem scared of hodographs


Isn't USA machines like the Spectrum, XLT, and so forth a type of hodograph ? And personally, I don't see what benefit they add anyhow. It's a gimmicky fun things to see your targets on graphs, with smears, bars, etc.... But in the final analysis, it's not telling you what the object is Well, I mean, no better than the simple up/down left/right axis of a machine like the Explorer series offers, for instance (such that you can tell penny vs quarter vs tab, and so forth).

Ghound you caught my interest, what machine with all these features did you pick up for under £400?

HH,
Brian

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, my 'european' detector came with a telescope
> carbon shaft, wirless headphones, covers, 2 coils,
> charger and batteries, 5yr guarantee on the electr
> onics, switchable khz-8khz/18khz and so far no 're
> turn to base' issues or firmware repairs etc, deep
> and fast and at under £400 it was a steal !
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> diggers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Whatever is coming down the road,,,,,I certain
> ly
> > h
> > > ope detector " weight" is taken seriously.
> > >
> > > No need for " heavy" detectors.
> >
> > Exactly a telescopic carbon fibre stemis favouri
> te
> > ...but why do we still have the sections of meta
> l
> > tubing with holes and spring catches around ..??
> ma
> > kers can buy in CF tele tubes .must be cheaper t
> ha
> > n fabricating bits of metal tubing

A GM5 Cal.

Quote
diggers
Only the Europeans seem keen on adding a hodograph

Anyone have a pic of a hodograph as used on a detector?

go-rebels Wrote:
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>

Quote
diggers
Only the Europeans seem keen on a
> dding a hodograph

> Anyone have a pic of a hodograph as used on
> a detector?


Bingo. I was wondering the same thing. I took this to mean a graph display of one type or another. If you do a google image search on "hodograph", you'll see what I mean.

So if that's the case, then .... why hasn't that been fulfilled in machines like the Whites spectrum, XLT, and so forth ? Or the Minelab's fancy smanchy screens on their CTX, Explorer's etc.... ? Which is all fine and dandy. But no, they don't tell you the difference between targets (aluminum and gold for instance). Nor are they showing "shape".

Nor do any of the European machine's Digger alludes show shape or tell metals apart from one another. So I'm still waiting for him to elaborate on what he meant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2016 10:58PM by Tom_in_CA.

Just need to make the cz3d a real three dimensional imagining machine. I will then part with all my machines except my cz20 to buy the new version.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2016 07:22AM by supertraq.

Dave Johnson posted this on another forum about 18 months ago.

The good news is that I'm designing the perfect detector. The bad news is that almost nobody will like it.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

supertraq Wrote:
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> Just need to make the cz3d a real three dimensiona
> l imagining machine.....


What information do you think this will provide to you ? If/when this is possible, what targets do you think it will aid in telling apart from each other ?

It is expected the release of Golden Mask 6, Tesoro with touch screen, the new detector from Minelab.

( We are waiting for January 20 conference in the US distributors )
/IMHO/

GM6 with 30% more depth, that would be nice....

I could be wrong but I have feeling that Tesoro is going to surprise us with a new detector or maybe more than one & that would be great.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> supertraq Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just need to make the cz3d a real three dimensio
> na
> > l imagining machine.....
>
>
> What information do you think this will provide to
> you ? If/when this is possible, what targets do
> you think it will aid in telling apart from each o
> ther ?

Tell a ring from a pulltab or can slaw or a coin from a piece of rusty metal etc. Technology may be there but cost would be to much anytime soon.
Also a little late in the game for an investment like that.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

They like to tease us !