Hey Keith would you do a vid. trying this.........

The nail board test in a different way. Take a piece of wood. Transfer the nail board templete to it .Tape the iron and target in place. Dig a six inch square plug in the red dirt and place the Test Templete in the ground. Place the plug over it and tamp it down. Now lets see if it validates! Thanks

Sounds like an idea.

How about taking a piece of wood,,,make some spots in it for the targets (like using Dremel),,,then take a piece of plexiglass with holes drilled,,,secure the 2 pieces together using nylon screws and bolts and washers.

Then you can handle a lot rougher,,,even move and adjust depth if you want.

Items would remain in place when handling.

Could make a few,,,using different targets,,,,like nickel,,,dime, IH penny.

Should also have one,,,with just the nails in place,,,,so user can set/verify disc setting,,and folks can see detectors response on nails ONLY.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2017 11:47AM by tnsharpshooter.

You will be assigned that project!

woodchiphustler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You will be assigned that project!


I already have my own project.

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

But,,,,if a person tested a lot of detectors making videos,,,,,my suggestion in the long run,,,could save a person a lot of time.

And keep the test more ideal/consistent.

Nice!

George,,,,,we really need to be thinking about adjustable fixtures for testing.

This obviously would be better used for head to head detector comparisons.

Even using the current nail board template..using bigger nails,,,and

Even a double nail,,nail board test needs to be considered.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2017 12:02PM by tnsharpshooter.

When you get all that figured out---gimmee a call!----------Seriously----I think you two are onto something!-------Keith made the statement sometime back that the (current) nail board test is obsolete--I tend to agree with him.--------Let's take it a step (or two) further!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2017 02:19PM by D&P-OR.

Something else here.

Very apparent nonferrous target conductivity plays a part.

Would be nice to see,,for instance an object like nickel,,,,cut to size of dime.

Nickel being bigger,,,and with its lower conductivity vs dime,,,,sorta skews results of separation/unmasking test.

Maybe,,just maybe the $1 gold coin should be included in tests.r

Bigger/longer nails should be considered/used as well



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2017 01:58PM by tnsharpshooter.

Reality Test Scenario: This would be when a 'Test Sample' or 'Testing Device' is an absolute duplicate of an actual in-the-field good-target/bad-target(s) encounter.

Reality, just as it occurred, and capable of being duplicated by anyone with any metal detector or search coil, anywhere in the world. Perhaps the best example I can offer here is my 'Nail Board Performance Test' which was an actual encounter on Memorial Day Weekend in 1994 in the ghost town of Frisco, Utah. It was both a detector find and a visual find as it comprised an Indian Head 1¢ laying on top of the ground in plain view surrounded by four (4) rusty iron nails.

The nails were not of the same diameter and length, all being different from the others, and they were not purposefully placed in an orientation to the coin for a demonstration, such as exactly vertical or exactly horizontal to the coin. The location was on top of the old 'school hill' and the hilltop was covered by a lot of discarded nails or those remaining after fire destroyed the ruins. A scattering of iron nails, with four of them spaced a reasonable distance from others so as not to cause a problem, and a more than a century-old Indian Head laying on the surface, roughly centered among the four surrounding nails. I was evaluating a now defunct detector manufacturer's detector and coils, and taking notes and gathering some test samples while on my way to Prescott Arizona to give a week-long class at the college on 'Recreational Metal Detecting.'

Since I had my clipboard with me I was able to use a sheet of paper placed over the set-up I encountered to make an exact positioning of the four rusty nails and Indian Head 1¢, then pick them all up to be able to duplicate an exact Nail Board Test piece. I used it while in Prescott and countless times since in seminars, when set up at sportsman's shows, gold and treasure shows, club and group meetings and outings, and as a dealer when demonstrating detector performance, or lack-of, for challenging iron plagued hunt sites. I also know that my Nail Board Performance Test is in the hands of at least four metal detector design engineers, and also that four or five detector manufacturers have one for their use.


Random or an 'I wonder if ....' Test Scenario: This would be when someone uses one or more unwanted (trash or junk) test samples and a desired object, such as a coin or button or jewelry item, and thinks of an assortment of possible in-the-field encounters, then moves the various objects around in different configurations or orientations to see what effect it might have on a metal detector and/or coil, and what makes or models might be able to produce an acceptable response compared with different search coil or different makes and models.

Generally, these types of creative ideas might produce some useful comparisons and/or show some weaknesses of some detector designs or performance, but most frequently they are not an absolute duplicate of an actual field encounter, and are not done in a manner so that others can copy or produce an exacting duplicate for testing elsewhere. They might make an interesting You Tube Video, but viewers are still not fully aware of settings used and other unknowns.


An Absolute 'In-The-Know' Test Scenario:This can only be accomplished when two-or-more detector users work a challenging site, each armed with two or more makes and models of detectors and really beneficial when two or more coils are used on each detector. Together, the pair or small group work an area and when a 'digable' signal is made of a potentially desired target, all people STOP.

All persons gather together and the target finder or let's say primary searcher (for fun let's just say seven or eight people get with Keith S.) are all armed with different makes and models and having 2 or more coils for their detector. There is absolutely no effort made to recover the signaling target, and no disturbance of the ground or removal of any nearby object. A note-taker can keep a record of everyone's efforts and also the comments made by all present about any results seen or heard.

Keith, in this example, would sweep across the target in the exact direction of sweep he used when he first located the target. He would explain the mode and settings used and coil used ... all jotted down in the note-takers log. He could then sweep across the located target from four directions, just as I did on my NBPT, with one sweep from the left and one from the right making a possible 8 audio responses. The note-taker would jot down the results, such as his detector/coil set-up and settings used produced 7-out-of-8 hits.

Then the others, all assigned a number to keep the order or progression and detector and setting descriptions consistent, would take their turn. With no headphones used so everyone could hear, they would use their detector and coil and settings, make the same left-and-right sweeps over the four different directions, and document the results in the log along with anyone's comments about what they heard or saw. Any extra coils could be mounted and tested as well.

No stacking books or using boards to vary specimen locations, or twisting nails or other junk targets in various positions. No hiding quarters in bananas or doing other unnatural things to try and show of some intended performance, just actual real-life, in-the-field, side-by-side comparisons that could be made into a very interesting video. Not just one person trying to make up a new imaginary test, but a small group of knowledgeable detector users, putting a good assortment of detectors and coils 'to-the-test' in some natural hunting and comparing all makes and models w/o any target or ground disturbance.

That would really provide an 'Absolute 'In-the-Know' Test Scenario' that could be made available for anyone interested in watching a worthwhile video. I am sure some in that testing group might walk away satisfied that their detector selection is a 'keeper' for them, and that others would walk away to a dealer's shop or get on their phone to contact a dealer and upgrade their existing detector arsenal after seeing what works or works much better. Some manufacturers might not like to see the results, but others would be grinning with pleasure as their product passed a 'Reality' test and left some lasting impressions.

Here's a thought. Gather up eight to ten knowledgeable detectorists and the different makes and models and accessory coils. Don't forget to take along a note-taker with excellent penmanship and spelling skills to capture everything, and maybe someone to operate a live-action camera. The group can spend a full-day Relic Hunting a very iron littered and challenging site. Then the same group and detector & coil assortment can go Coin Hunting at a worthwhile older park and do exactly the same thing. A Primary searcher, then the rest of the 'crew' take their turn, in order, to compare performance on shallower targets, mid-depth targets, deep targets, good targets partially masked by trash that might be deeper, shallower or on the same plane as the desired target.

Just some of my thoughts because it isn't easy to make an imaginary test sample and try to duplicate it in real life hunting. I know that on the Welcome-to-Hunt Outings I host each year, several of us will get together and do some side-by-side performance testing on undisturbed, just-located targets. It's always educational, for some more than others.

Monte

Suffice it to impose on an existing test Nail Board the opportunity to deepen coins.
It's enough to place nails on a transparent plexiglass plate and precisely to raise over a coin. (Or lower coin, no difference)
You can complicate the test by creating rectangles of plastic or similar containers height of 1 cm and filling them with ground.
These containers with soil underlay under the plate with nails lifting it over the coin.
But then arises the difficulty with uniformity test conditions of this repetition, as the ground will vary.
ps: even the current test Nail board is preferably carried out at the plate lying on the ground, to account for the signal ground ...

Well guy's these thought's pop into my head after one to many Bookers! Since I just joined this forum I have little clue as to what has been tried! Comparing my detectors is what I need to see below the surface. I live in the red clay iron belt. Gonna dig a hole!

I'm waiting to see what Ziggy's round 2 tests will entail.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

in Addition to the nail tests with nice nails, how about using some of the larger 150 year old rusted blobs of iron, some of which started out as nails and have morphed into nasty zombie type nails. one of the reasons I have been turning into a "dig most things" guy in some locations is that the endless variety of scrap and odd iron blobs is so very different than nice nails.

in Addition to the coin/nail tests with nice coins, how about using buttons/nails with the shanks side up, which contribute their own iron to the tests? i fooled around with that for a bit the other day...was quite interesting. I might have to find someone's old gopro and work on those too.

Even better yet put the coin at 4", 2 nails at 2" and 2 nails at 6" and watch every detector fail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2017 04:11PM by detectingMO.

You know,,,,I'll bet a detector manufacturer could devise a fixture (fully adjustable both 2d and 3D) and they would sell well.

A lot of folks would be buying just to learn their detectors,,at least part ways.

As long as it wasn't too costly.

Surprised one hasn't been made and sold commercially.

I'm with detectingMO on this experiment. A simpler test is to use your favorite machine with small nail rejection dialed in and find a good mid depth to deeper non ferrous target. Then place your square nail on the surface above the target and see just how far away you have to place the nail to pick up the target.

An example of failure of the detector if the coin below the iron level:
/ Focus on the hodograph! Coil AKA 6" 14 kHz /

Example masking signal

Although this test is Nail Board detector passes:

Nail Board



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2017 09:39AM by vfp7.

"An example of failure of the detector" As soon as I understood that it was an indoor test, I just turned it off.......Long lost and buried In ground targets is a good way of understanding iron mask... experience in the field is where it counts. You can use a common rusty nail to do field experiments with, it ain't rocket science, find a real target and have fun with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2017 06:09PM by Hombre.

I could do that George...might be easier just ot get a tub odf my red dirt and pack it out to about 6 inches and set it on top of the nail board..

I can already tell you the outcome..LOL..

Not very good..

I fully know that nail test are just that and to be honest I like to see which machine can do what but in he soil is where its at..the DEUS proves that..it cant pass the nail board completely..especially the test I Like to call "Down the Barrel"...( take 16 penny nail ..place a zinc cent to one side in the middle of the length...set machine to reject nail sweep length wise and see if you can hear the zinc)

most all the good passers when there's a gap. will stall out...


One of the best unmaskers at reasonable 6 inch depth I've ever encountered to this day is a Tejon with 5 concentric..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Well my red clay is not good so I will do it here! Thanks for the info. I got a 280.00 machine I believe can. Will see!

Hey Ill get it done Woodchip..

Burying iron in iron so to speak !!

Give me a day or two..

Slammed right now .

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Thank you Great One!

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something else here.
>
> Very apparent nonferrous target conductivity plays
> a part.
>
> Would be nice to see,,for instance an object like
> nickel,,,,cut to size of dime.
>
> Nickel being bigger,,,and with its lower conductiv
> ity vs dime,,,,sorta skews results of separation/u
> nmasking test.
>
> Maybe,,just maybe the $1 gold coin should be inclu

I have a one dollar gold coin I found. I have never done a nail board test. It would be interesting to use a VDI reading above ground then compare in ground! How much VDI loss was determined!
> ded in tests.r
>
> Bigger/longer nails should be considered/used as w
> ell

Your Funny George!!

Early tonight LOL..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I have two wits. One is dry the other is dim!