White's V3i running in 3 freq,,,, ground balance

I don't currently have one of these units.
I did a few years ago.

The ground balance system used on the unit.

I am a bit puzzled,,,,what exactly was it ground balancing to,,, while running in 3 frequency??

Seems each frequency would have their own "ideal" ground setting for performance.

Maybe besides the alternating freqs,,,,this was one reason depth was less vs single frequency operation.

I have never had or used a cz3d,,,,how does it work??? Ground balance wise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2017 12:57AM by tnsharpshooter.

The ground balance subtracts out the ground minerals and adjusts the phase values. It is not frequency dependent it is coil dependent.

Alan - Retired in Omak, WA

Tn...did you ever happen to look up the videos on Youtube of Mark Rowan explaining the way different frequencies react to different targets and how the DFX ( 3 kHz and 15kHz frequencies) happens to discriminate out ferrous ground and salt. Pretty interesting.

I copied and pasted the 2 video URL's if you want to look them up.

First video...start around 4:00 minute mark. [www.youtube.com]

Second video..start at beginning: [www.youtube.com]

I have never seen them until now.

Thanks for sharing.

I did see something in one of the vids,,,,explains a lot of things,,unrelated to the topic here.
Won't say what though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2017 04:34AM by tnsharpshooter.

Each frequency is nulled to the ground. The V3 does this pretty easy and fast. The V3i takes quite a while.

In three frequency mode, when you start ground balancing, you can pinpoint and see which ones are nulling and which ones are not. That one last frequency will keep sounding off until it nulls. My experience has been that 2.5 can take a minute in hot ground. Most of the time in the real hot ground I'll just throw in a offset to help 2.5 along so I don't stand there forever pumping the coil. 2.5 behaving that way is opposite of how you think it would work, but thats what it does.

V3i is pretty sucky at ground balance. I wished Whites had added the other features and left the ground tracking system alone cause they screwed it up. The V3 is a much better operating unit over the V3i. My opinion.

HH
Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2017 08:56PM by Mike Hillis.

Mike,,

Have you done head to head testing with V3 and V3i??? Depth wise

If my memory is correct here,,,V3 models were converted to V3i,,,,yes they added some things by doing,,,but the real reason seems had some thing to do with noise.

When I heard this,,,and saw what White's did with changing the detector,,,and giving new model number,,,,,was the V3 detector neutered,,,to make it quieter,, turning it in to a V3.

And really when this started bugging me some,,,is when I saw what happened to the F75 units when DST was added.

TNSS.
I love love love love love love love love love DST on the F75. There were very, very few places where I could use the F75 prior to DST. Now I can use it almost anywhere I want to. And a stable F75 is something to use. So to me, DST gave me back a detector I really liked but could never use. I'm a huge fan of Fisher's DST.

I have never had both a V3 and V3i in my hand at the same time. I've always had a V3i, or had a V3 that I upgraded to a V3i shortly after I obtained it. So I can't give you any head to head information. But I can say that after spending time with the V3 this go around I have no interest whatsoever in updating it to a V3i. Ground balance is TWO pumps in most ground vs 20 or 40 with the V3i. No lockups while fooling around with settings, and the Analyze screen works every time, and I am happy with the depth and target id responses.

HH
Mike

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TNSS.
> I love love love love love love love love love DST
> on the F75. There were very, very few places whe
> re I could use the F75 prior to DST. Now I can u
> se it almost anywhere I want to. And a stable F75
> is something to use. So to me, DST gave me back
> a detector I really liked but could never use. I'
> m a huge fan of Fisher's DST.
>

Mike...thanks for stating that. I had a F75se without DST and could not use it in a lot of places as well (and I liked that unit a lot). Had to sell it off. Now in the market for another and I want DST so I can use the machine to its fullest. I understand others stating they don't want a DST unit but I have a feeling they aren't in high EMI places like a lot of the sites I hunt. I could not settle my only unit down. Frequency shifts, lowering sensitivity, using different modes...nothing worked at some sites. The thing would just go nuts and the VDI's all over the place. Good to hear you love DST.

to add, I think the noise thing was due to people wanting to run the gain and disc threshold sensitivity like the DFX and it isn't a DFX. Once you have your gain raised to 9 or 10 you pretty much have it maxed out. Those last 4 or 5 numbers are just soliciting noise.

HH
Mike

Rover61,
You will love a having a DST F75 in your environments. Its much different hunting with a stable F75 as using an unstable one.

I predict DST will give the F75/T2 a run life akin to the CZ series. They will be with us for years to come.

HH
Mike

Mike...I agree.

My dilemma is should I get a Gold Edition or LTD. I don't hunt stubble/high grass areas or larger targets (so not sure if the added modes would be of value) as I mostly would use the unit in iron infested and trashy sites searching for coins and jewelry (not much of a relic hunter either). Lots of times in the dry sand so getting the coil close to the ground is not a problem...hence me thinking more the Gold Edition.

I hope no one took me wrong,,,I like DST unit much better.

Site for site on average,,,,more useable depth.

As far as what the future holds for F75 model detector.

It will IMO,,,be moved down in the hierarchy,,,by both competitors as well as First Texas.

I also expect to see some price reduction too.

Something else to mention,,,IMO some of the other manufacturers actually brought us some better detectors (in some detecting scenarios) because of the F75 series detectors.

The F75 series,,,sorta had a target drawn on its back....shows really how good it is(was).

Tn...I would love to see a new CZ platform in an F75 type package. Lighter, dual frequency (with the ability to hunt in single like the DFX), ability to use concentric and DD coils, etc.

But that wish has been stated numerous times by lots of hunters for years and nothing has happened so who knows.

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tn...I would love to see a new CZ platform in an F
> 75 type package. Lighter, dual frequency (with the
> ability to hunt in single like the DFX), ability t
> o use concentric and DD coils, etc.
>
> But that wish has been stated numerous times by lo
> ts of hunters for years and nothing has happened s
> o who knows.


I agree with you here.

Take the best of both F75 and CZ3d,,,and improve and produce a detector.
Concentrating on both of these detectors weaknesses when doing..

Even a light weight CZ3d would sell. With more digital settings,,,no knobs,,and switches.

Some would be surprised at juat what looks has on a person's overall impressions of a unit.

And before someone here tries to attack me,,,,yes,,I know some of the older more experienced folks have used similar units,,have had good to great experiences with them,,,but this group of folks is getting smaller,,not bigger.

Folks want the new eye candy to drive around,,,,not the boxy look,,with manual switches and a bunch of knobs.

Manufacturers sure can't maintain solid footing by making ,,,,, I'll borrow the terms..... niche and niche-cubed units.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 12:26PM by tnsharpshooter.

I still love the analog design and knobs on the CZ but I do wish a new one would come out that would incorporate some of design features of the F75 along with the ability to use DD coils.

I know it's a stretch but a guy can still dream....we still can do that right ?!

With the advent of the Teknetics Tee-Square (T2)....... one of the targeted intents was to be a single-freq "old coins" CZ-3D......... along with improvements/advancements in the relic hunting department. . . . . . with 'relic hunting' being the slight trump-card. Then........... a couple of years later....... came the much more powerful F75. And again, the F75 targeted CZ-3D "old coins" coins hunters....... and relic hunters alike; yet............... the slightly tilted scale would swing a bit in the other direction.....whereby ...... the F75 somewhat more-so targeted "old coins" hunters...... with (now) relic hunting capabilities being slightly reduced (((as can be witnessed by the 00-15 ID iron-scaling))). Then came the 'boost process' F75.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., which did not enhance the "old coins" hunting ability; yet/rather....... a large boost for the relic hunters........,,,,,,,,, especially smaller low-conductor targets. And AGAIN......... the the scales then tilted back to 'somewhat more-so' to targeting relic hunting. The 'boost process' T2 was to (properly) appease the Teknetics crowd........... and a good job it did. Sooooooooo............ in a nutshell:

T2 = ..............................Revolutionary
F75 = ............................Evolutionary
F75 boost process = ......Evolutionary
T2 boost process = ........Evolutionary

For us fallible humans........ it is MUCH more difficult to generate/create a "Revolutionary" product............ whereby ......... you are creating/inventing something that does not yet exist. Not only does the brain NOT think about things it does not know......... it also innately RESISTS 'change' ..... about the 'unknown'. Revolutionary conceptual notions (with subsequent 'new' inventions) have a greater time-lag between each of them.

My opinion is diametrically opposed by relic hunters (and Dave Johnson) when I say that the F75 boost-process is a better relic hunter over the T2. The lessor iron scaling of the F75 (00-15 ........ vs the T2's 00-40) turned out to be inconsequential/not much of a hindrance whilst relic hunting.............and............. the 'boost process' can be applied to more modes/options of the F75. . . . . with the end resultant being: greater artificial intelligence.

Dave/John/Carl/Jorg/and crew .......... are not sleeping. The Revolutionary time-lag......remains intact. (((We are just simply (humanly) impatient!)))

tnsharpshooter, thanks for bringing up this topic. The V3i doesn't get talked about much here on this site, so I was happy to see this topic.

The V3i is a good detector. I've hunted with one on and off since 2012 and have hundreds of hours on it. The one thing that really bugs me about this detector is the auto ground balance is not very good. I was wondering what I must be doing wrong sitting there pumping away for 20-30 pumps with people around me thinking I must have lost my mind and that maybe they should call the funny farm people to come take me away. I've had 20+ ground balancing detectors over the years, lots with manual balance, and teh V3i is the worst of the bunch. I could never seem to get it properly ground balanced compared to every other detector I've ever owned. MXT: 1-2 pumps and it's perfect. 6000: 2-3 pumps as I adjust the manual GB control and it's perfect. XL Pro: a bit slow, and much maligned compared to the previous manual GB models, but even IT is far better and easier to GB than the V3i. CTX: don't even worry about GB. But the V3i is a real pain in the arse to GB. Now I just manually GB by getting it in the ballpark and then "manually" adjusting with the offset control and leaving it in loctrac. I've pretty well concluded the autotrac is useless.

So I'm glad to hear it's not just me or the three units I've owned since they came out.

What's even more maddening, is that the V3i is very sensitive to having a proper GB. If it's out, you will have all sorts of problems, like jumpy ID, chattering, and reduced depth. I think this sensitivity to having just the right GB, is why so many people have trouble with the V3i.

Mike Hillis, you know a lot about the V3i and are one of the only on this forum who haven't given up on it. A couple questions for you: 1) Can you elaborate a little on: "In three frequency mode, when you start ground balancing, you can pinpoint and see which ones are nulling and which ones are not." Do you mean since the V3i is in pinpoint mode anyway/trigger pulled when you are ground balancing, that you just watch to see which frequency bar stays to the right last as you pump the coil? I never noticed that before and it would useful to know which freq was having thr biggest trouble balancing out. And 2) If I hunt in loctrac and use offset as a poor man's manual ground balance, am I not getting a good 3-freq balance since they all balance at different points and by using offset, I'm simply moving the balance point up and down equally on all three freqs when maybe only one needs balancing and thus not getting them all properly balanced simultaneously? If so, maybe I need to go back to doing the full initial balance (all 20+ pumps!) and then when the balance starts to go out later, do a full 20-pump balance again to get all 3-freqs in balance rather than just using offset. Any thoughts on this or tips on how you get your V3i to properly balance?

A few of my thoughts about the V3i.

This not meant to be a bashing either.

But I do question a few things that transpired with this detector.

First,,,the coils for the detector,,,for entire proper ops,,,need to be so-called v- rated.

So why in the world did the manufacturer allow (connector wise) non v- rated coils to even be plugged in to the detector??

Next,,stock coil,,,is there a reason they stay away from an elliptical coil here like 7x11" coil,,,,would have sure saved some weight.
Could overall separation have been made better???

Color screen
Was there a way,,,staying away from the color,, to show folks respective frequency information while using detector.
Would have made for better battery life.

Frequency operation
Like said above,,,should have allowed 1,2 or 3 frequency ops.

Weight
Could the brains of detector,,,if designed as such,,,could they have been placed elsewhere,,,getting away from their more traditional design.
Detector weight and balance here could have been improved.

Settings access
A much simpler and faster way to access what needs to be changed,,,and the proces for changing,,,,needed to be incorporated.

Settings themselves
A lot of settings have a wide allowable span here to be used,,,,was for example to have a span of 100 digits even necessary??

Ground balance
Should have stayed with the tried and true.
Did DFX have problems in this area??? (I honesltly don't know),, but it was alternating multiple freq,,,,so if it worked,,,they should have stayed with it.

Ground minerals readings/calculations
The system used on the detector,,,too complicated,,,needed to be simpler and this info should have been able to be readily seen on screen for operator.

Pinpoint switch
As good as they come

USB connection for possible firmware updates
This should have happened....I read I think someone high in the food chain,,said it was considered,,but was not done for fear of scaring off some folks maybe less computer savvy.
Been a long time since release of this detector,,,,,even if it was not done at release,,,,it could have been designed,,,and folks for a reasonable price would have I think sent their units in to be configured with USB port.

This is what I see with the unit.

Cheers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 10:29PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few of my thoughts about the V3i.
>
> This not meant to be a bashing either.
>
> But I do question a few things that transpired with this detector.

Since I was there, I'll take a little time to answer some of these questions. They deserve to be answered.

> First,,,the coils for the detector,,,for entire proper ops,,,need to be so-called v- rated.
> So why in the world did the manufacturer allow (connector wise) non v- rated coils to even be plugged in to the detector??

The same connector goes back to even earlier analog detectors, and it's common for detector companies to do this. Not a big deal. But originally, the mandate from above was that the V3 had to use the same coils as the DFX and MXT. Only they didn't work for 22.5k, unless tweaked up a bit. So the 'tweaked up a bit' became the V-rated coils, and all coils were brought up to that standard. Honestly, this was still a huge mistake, as the Eclipse coil design has too much RX inductance. I argued to ditch the Eclipse and design a proper coil for the V3, but I lost. When the V3 was released, the 10DD coils were failing at an incredible rate, and some people got 3 or 4 replacements before it got ironed out.

> Next,,stock coil,,,is there a reason they stay away from an elliptical coil here like 7x11" coil,,,, would have sure saved some weight.
> Could overall separation have been made better???

Maybe, but White's wasn't very forward thinking. They originally wanted to put the 950 on the V3, so it's a miracle it got a DD at all.

> Color screen
> Was there a way,,,staying away from the color,, to show folks respective frequency information while using detector.
> Would have made for better battery life.

The color screen is a wonderful way to make spectral plots. The plans for the V4 expanded on this considerably. It would have been impressive.

> Frequency operation
> Like said above,,,should have allowed 1,2 or 3 frequency ops.

V4

> Weight
> Could the brains of detector,,,if designed as such,,,could they have been placed elsewhere,,,getting away from their more traditional design.
> Detector weight and balance here could have been improved.

Metal Box Technology was still the mandate at that time.

> Settings access
> A much simpler and faster way to access what needs to be changed,,,and the proces for changing,,,,needed to be incorporated.

It was.

> Settings themselves
> A lot of settings have a wide allowable span here to be used,,,,was for example to have a span of 100 digits even necessary??

Sometimes it was overkill, sometimes not.

> Ground balance
> Should have stayed with the tried and true.
> Did DFX have problems in this area??? (I honesltly don't know),, but it was alternating multiple freq,,,,so if it worked,,,they should have stayed with it.

The problem with the V3 GB has to do with the fundamentals of the MF design approach. It's a flawed system, and adding a third frequency really shined a light on the flaws. There was nothing more that could be done, short of scrapping the hardware and starting over. That was to be the V4.

> Ground minerals readings/calculations
> The system used on the detector,,,too complicated,,,needed to be simpler and this info should have been able to be readily seen on screen for operator

Agreed.

> Pinpoint switch
> As good as they come

Agreed.

> USB connection for possible firmware updates
> This should have happened....I read I think someone high in the food chain,,said it was considered,,
> but was not done for fear of scaring off some folks maybe less computer savvy.
> Been a long time since release of this detector,,,,,even if it was not done at release,,,,it could have been designed,,,
> and folks for a reasonable price would have I think sent their units in to be configured with USB port.

From the get-go management said "NO" to USB upgrades. They were afraid of it, much as they were reluctant to adopt any new technology. "If it's something we don't already know how to do, I don't want to do it." Well, we did it anyways. Or at least partly did it. A wireless USB dongle was designed to transfer programs to/from a PC, and it could also be used to load firmware updates. But then Minelab sued, and White's didn't consider the feature worth fighting for. Ironically, White's had quite a bit of prior art and could have won easily.

So there ya go, more than you ever wanted to know.

Thanks for responding Geotech.

Every single detector I operate,,, I always try to think when using.

Using other detectors helps sometimes to shine a light on any particualr detector.

Had I never run any other detector besides the V3i,, I wouldn't have been able to draw the conclusions I have here.

In a way,,,now my conscience is a bit cleaner with your response.

I have had conversations in person with a few folks owning the detector,,, and the discussions overall were not overly pleasant.

I look forward to seeing what White's can do in the future with new models.

Rover61, you can get the Gold F75 and update it later if you want. It looks like Fisher may offer the updates every spring.

Wayfarer, If you watch the screen when you are ground balancing the V3i you can see the frequency that is hanging you up. Offsets are applied to all three frequencys so you don't want to use a lot of offset points to achieve a ground null. If 22.5 and 7.5 are nulled and 2.5 is hanging up, when you apply negative offset to bring 2.5 to null, you have also driven 22.5 and 7.5 negative by the same amount. Offsetting 1 or 2 points normally doesn't hurt a lot in many places but if you are having to use too many offset points you are affecting performance.

That said, once all three frequencies are nulled without the use of offsets, then any offset points applied will affect all three frequencies equally. So it is best to get that first ground balance in place before using offsets if you can. Once you are dialed in with that first ground balance and have it locked, you can use offsets to stay tuned if you want instead of manually balancing all the time. By that I mean when checking your ground balance with the the pinpoint mode and you see that you are out of balance, you can apply an offset to bring you back to null instead of stopping and pumping forever again.

The un-updated V3 doen't have this issue execpt in very hot ground. Most of the times, even with a 9.5 concentric coil, it only takes couple, three pumps to null all three frequencies to the ground.

HH
Mike



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 03:44PM by Mike Hillis.

Wayfarer, One more thing.

If you find that it only takes a single offset point to bring your last frequency to ground null, you could leave it like that and just run that one frequency as is, which translates to two frequencies nulled, and one frequency slightly positive.

HH
Mike

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A few of my thoughts about the V3i.
> >
> > This not meant to be a bashing either.
> >
> > But I do question a few things that transpired w
> ith this detector.
>
> Since I was there, I'll take a little time to answ
> er some of these questions. They deserve to be ans
> wered.
>
> > First,,,the coils for the detector,,,for entire
> proper ops,,,need to be so-called v- rated.
> > So why in the world did the manufacturer allow (
> connector wise) non v- rated coils to even be plug
> ged in to the detector??
>
> The same connector goes back to even earlier analo
> g detectors, and it's common for detector companie
> s to do this. Not a big deal. But originally, the
> mandate from above was that the V3 had to use the
> same coils as the DFX and MXT. Only they didn't wo
> rk for 22.5k, unless tweaked up a bit. So the 'twe
> aked up a bit' became the V-rated coils, and all c
> oils were brought up to that standard. Honestly, t
> his was still a huge mistake, as the Eclipse coil
> design has too much RX inductance. I argued to dit
> ch the Eclipse and design a proper coil for the V3
> , but I lost. When the V3 was released, the 10DD c
> oils were failing at an incredible rate, and some
> people got 3 or 4 replacements before it got irone
> d out.
>
> > Next,,stock coil,,,is there a reason they stay a
> way from an elliptical coil here like 7x11" coil,,
> ,, would have sure saved some weight.
> > Could overall separation have been made better??
> ?
>
> Maybe, but White's wasn't very forward thinking. T
> hey originally wanted to put the 950 on the V3, so
> it's a miracle it got a DD at all.
>
> > Color screen
> > Was there a way,,,staying away from the color,,
> to show folks respective frequency information whi
> le using detector.
> > Would have made for better battery life.
>
> The color screen is a wonderful way to make spectr
> al plots. The plans for the V4 expanded on this co
> nsiderably. It would have been impressive.
>
> > Frequency operation
> > Like said above,,,should have allowed 1,2 or 3 f
> requency ops.
>
> V4
>
> > Weight
> > Could the brains of detector,,,if designed as su
> ch,,,could they have been placed elsewhere,,,getti
> ng away from their more traditional design.
> > Detector weight and balance here could have been
> improved.
>
> Metal Box Technology was still the mandate at that
> time.
>
> > Settings access
> > A much simpler and faster way to access what nee
> ds to be changed,,,and the proces for changing,,,,
> needed to be incorporated.
>
> It was.
>
> > Settings themselves
> > A lot of settings have a wide allowable span her
> e to be used,,,,was for example to have a span of
> 100 digits even necessary??
>
> Sometimes it was overkill, sometimes not.
>
> > Ground balance
> > Should have stayed with the tried and true.
> > Did DFX have problems in this area??? (I honesl
> tly don't know),, but it was alternating multiple
> freq,,,,so if it worked,,,they should have stayed
> with it.
>
> The problem with the V3 GB has to do with the fund
> amentals of the MF design approach. It's a flawed
> system, and adding a third frequency really shined
> a light on the flaws. There was nothing more that
> could be done, short of scrapping the hardware and
> starting over. That was to be the V4.
>
> > Ground minerals readings/calculations
> > The system used on the detector,,,too complicate
> d,,,needed to be simpler and this info should have
> been able to be readily seen on screen for operato
> r
>
> Agreed.
>
> > Pinpoint switch
> > As good as they come
>
> Agreed.
>
> > USB connection for possible firmware updates
> > This should have happened....I read I think some
> one high in the food chain,,said it was considered
> ,,
> > but was not done for fear of scaring off some fo
> lks maybe less computer savvy.
> > Been a long time since release of this detector,
> ,,,,even if it was not done at release,,,,it could
> have been designed,,,
> > and folks for a reasonable price would have I th
> ink sent their units in to be configured with USB
> port.
>
> From the get-go management said "NO" to USB upgrad
> es. They were afraid of it, much as they were relu
> ctant to adopt any new technology. "If it's someth
> ing we don't already know how to do, I don't want
> to do it." Well, we did it anyways. Or at least pa
> rtly did it. A wireless USB dongle was designed to
> transfer programs to/from a PC, and it could also
> be used to load firmware updates. But then Minelab
> sued, and White's didn't consider the feature wort
> h fighting for. Ironically, White's had quite a bi
> t of prior art and could have won easily.
>
> So there ya go, more than you ever wanted to know.

So there were plans for a V4, but it isn't being made? Curious because the way you worded that was strange, unless it was a project they abandoned. Which would be rather disappointing as I really like my V3i. I'd just like that clarified.
Thanks, Seth



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2017 02:21AM by coinhunterseth.

coinhunterseth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So there were plans for a V4, but it isn't being made?

Everyone who worked on the V3 has left White's. I doubt there's anyone left who would know how to do it.

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wayfarer, If you watch the screen when you are gr
> ound balancing the V3i you can see the frequency t
> hat is hanging you up. Offsets are applied to al
> l three frequencys so you don't want to use a lot
> of offset points to achieve a ground null. If 22.
> 5 and 7.5 are nulled and 2.5 is hanging up, when y
> ou apply negative offset to bring 2.5 to null, you
> have also driven 22.5 and 7.5 negative by the same
> amount. Offsetting 1 or 2 points normally doesn'
> t hurt a lot in many places but if you are having
> to use too many offset points you are affecting pe
> rformance.
>
> That said, once all three frequencies are nulled w
> ithout the use of offsets, then any offset points
> applied will affect all three frequencies equally.
> So it is best to get that first ground balance in
> place before using offsets if you can. Once you
> are dialed in with that first ground balance and h
> ave it locked, you can use offsets to stay tuned i
> f you want instead of manually balancing all the t
> ime. By that I mean when checking your ground ba
> lance with the the pinpoint mode and you see that
> you are out of balance, you can apply an offset to
> bring you back to null instead of stopping and pum
> ping forever again.
>
> The un-updated V3 doen't have this issue execpt in
> very hot ground. Most of the times, even with a 9
> .5 concentric coil, it only takes couple, three pu
> mps to null all three frequencies to the ground.
>
> HH
> Mike


Mike, thank you very much for that explanation. You perfectly answered my question and have solved one of the great mysteries of V3i operation, the proper ground balance technique for the V3i in 3 frequency operation. And even more interestingly, how that darned system works behind the scenes. I've long struggled with getting a proper ground balance on the V3i, as I'm sure many users have struggled too. Knowing how the system works is very useful to know how to properly adjust it. The White's manual is not very good, and the forum posts are mostly just "how-to" (and not always correct), but knowing the actual engineering is the key information.

So from an operator's point of view, getting a good three frequency ground balance by pumping until all freqs are balanced, going to loctrac, and then applying offsets as the ground changes, *is* a workable technique. Again, they key bit of information to understand that this is true, is that the offsets are applied equally to all three frequencies. So that if you start with a good 3-freq GB, then the ground changes and you apply an offset, all three freqs will come back into balance.

I wonder if the V3 was so much better at ground balancing than the V3i, then isn't the hardware capable of better performance and the possibility exits of significant improvement though software alone? It's disheartening to hear that all the engineers who worked on the V3i are gone from White's, otherwise we probably would have seen a firmware update or two by now to address the ground balancing problems as well as clean up a few other areas like the laggy audio. <sigh>

Most of the really knowledgeable guys seems to have moved on from the V3i and there's not much intelligent discussion going on about it anymore, especially the engineering aspects. So thanks again for sharing your knowledge about the V3i.

Darren

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coinhunterseth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So there were plans for a V4, but it isn't being
> made?
>
> Everyone who worked on the V3 has left White's. I
> doubt there's anyone left who would know how to do
> it.
That is LAME!!!!!!!