Where are the new machines?

They will come from Russia /eastern Europe ...

"Could people not feel the need to 'Cut n Paste'.....it just makes for too much scrolling and a senseless waste of time!!!!

It's OK - we get it - you want to make a Comment on the Thread in question.
Do that but why attach comments from others!!!!
If we're following [ which we are ] then we KNOW what's going on!

OK rant over!"

Des D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Could people not feel the need to 'Cut n Paste'..
> ...it just makes for too much scrolling and a sens
> eless waste of time!!!!
>
> It's OK - we get it - you want to make a Comment o
> n the Thread in question.
> Do that but why attach comments from others!!!!
> If we're following [ which we are ] then we KNOW w
> hat's going on!
>
> OK rant over!"


Yes I agree

New detectors out next year.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

The question should be where are new locations

guvmore Wrote:
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> The question should be where are new locations (
> )


X2

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are better, proven ways to scan the dirt, but companies still want you
> to waste money on variations(they save money on R&D, production ETC).

What are the better, proven ways?

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are better, proven ways to scan the dirt,
> but companies still want you
> > to waste money on variations(they save money on
> R&D, production ETC).
>
> What are the better, proven ways?


Dowsing rods?

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Vision I've had for years,,big fronted loader and a giant sieve, progressively finer steps in the sieves.
Have big ole tailing pile of pure dirt when done.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

My vision a 4" dredge for swimming holes. Wonder how long I could get away with it?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are better, proven ways to scan the dirt,
> but companies still want you
> > to waste money on variations(they save money on
> R&D, production ETC).
>
> What are the better, proven ways?

X-rays, microwaves, ground penetrating radar, soil analysis, ground pattern recognition using vibratory harmonics, and whatever else is out there. If someone can bounce a laser off the moon to communicate with someone on the other side of the globe, then all types of things can be accomplished.

BP -

You mentioned five specific "better proven ways". I was familiar with a couple of these, and in looking up info on the rest, pretty rapidly found that most of them are approaches which have been explored for landmine detection - although, with the excpetion of ground penetrating radar, so far none of them have been developed and fielded.

The problem with all of the novel developments for landmine detection is that the central problem there is the exact opposite of our problem as detectorists.

Landmines are relatively large, but modern ones are completely non-metallic except for one or two components in the trigger mechanism. This fact, plus the "false alarms" generated by metallic trash, projectile fragments, etc make metal detector-based mine detection difficult, thus driving the search for other means.

The other means explored are all based on detection of the entire mine, since they don't depend on metal detection for their operation. The whole aim is then the detection of relatively large non-metallic targets.

The systems developed so far all share the disadvantages of high unit cost and high power consumption.

Our problem is the detection of relatively small METAL objects - coin sized and smaller mostly. We need systems that are light, portable, have low power consumption and cost less than a couple of thousand dollars.

Even if any of the ways you cite could improve the detection depth or discrimination from metallic junk of valuable metallic targets - where would the many tens of millions of dollars and the many man-years of top engineering effort come from. I seriously doubt whether the world-wide annual sales of "top-end" metal detectors exceeds a hundred thousand units. At an average ex-factory price of $1000 ($1500 end-user sales price) - that is a total market of $100M. If a radical new technology captured 25% of that (an awfully optimistic estimate) it would get $25M in sales. Figure a 20% NPAT (net profit after tax) and you are down to $5M/year. Not an attractive proposition to risk $10 - 20 million in up front costs on - for something which might never reach production.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2017 06:25PM by lytle78.

Rick, please do not think I am insensitive to our vets that lost their lives/limbs to land mines(meant with sincerity). I am only trying to get some info/ideas moving along in our hobby.

As for power consumption and high cost, I agree that this would be the initial stumbling block.

High cost: As we all know, the first few home computer were in the range of 5-7 thousand and now, you can but them at a fraction. I understand that the motivation for creating such items would be low, but there must be someone, or some corporate entity that can see beyond the "bottom line". The applications alone for counter terrorism would be worth it.

Power consumption: This is the real monkey on our backs. Maybe a solar li-on battery combo with also a kinetic generator(like in a kinetic watch) im not sure. Maybe one of those great batteries we used on the LEM to air condition it while on the moon back in 1969 .

Jackpine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My vision a 4" dredge for swimming holes. Wonder
> how long I could get away with it?


X2

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> X-rays, microwaves, ground penetrating radar, soil analysis, ground pattern recognition using vibratory harmonics, and whatever else is out there.

GPR is available right now, you can take it for a test drive.

GPR has a long way to go before it's even close to being commercially viable for us park hunters. We have a $20K state-of-the-art GPR unit here in my office that we use for archeological research. It's basically like a big push lawnmower that you struggle to push across the ground that sends data to an attached laptop. It's very tricky to use properly and even when you know what you are doing, it's only good for very large objects that are identifiable by rough shape. The resolution is not very good, maybe about an inch. There would be no way to tell a small stone from a coin, for instance, or even a helmet from a larger rock. It's useful to identify old foundations, graves, and track underground utilities. Maybe 30 years from now the technology might be good enough to use it for locating coins and rings and such, but the technology is going to have to come long way before that happens. It's fun to think about, though.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe one of those great batteries we used
> on the LEM to air condition it while on the moon back in 1969 .

LEM (asc and dec) used total of 6 silver-zinc batteries weighing total of 256 pounds.
(7th battery added after Apollo 13)

It's been recently demonstrated that rechargeable silver-zinc cells offer (up to 57%) greater capacity and energy densities over equivalently sized rechargeable Li-on and Li-polymer batteries.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2017 12:08AM by Mike in CO.

Nice thread. Good mix of hopes and wishes and the various knowledge of us forum rats!

Exactly why I come here forst!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > X-rays, microwaves, ground penetrating radar, soil analysis, ground pattern recognition using vibratory harmonics, and whatever else is out there.
>
> GPR is available right now, you can take it for a test drive.

Wayfarer says 'no' to GPR. Can't even discriminate out rocks.

How about X-ray? That's an ionizing frequency. I'll defer to Marie Curie when it comes to exposure risks. Nevertheless, you can buy an X-ray machine right now and give it a try, but without film or a sensor buried in the ground I'm not sure what it would give you, other than worms with cancer.

Microwaves: that's what GPR uses.

Soil analysis: not sure what this refers to

Ground pattern recognition using vibratory harmonics: not sure what this refers to

Whatever else is out there: Terrahertz? Infrared? Ultrasound?

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Great stuff thank you all for contributing!

The newer machines? Been there done that. On to the next!

Well Beyonder,

That's 5 New detectors in the past few?

Tesoro Mojave
GM5+
Rutus Alter 71
Gold Monster
Impact...

Just in from the Big 5: "We have decided to join together, to share brains and cash to develop stuff you haven't even dreamed of!"

So, I guess I'll wait for that then! Lol...

Good! Im glad im lighting a fire under there britches!!!

If I had the skills believe me I would like to be involved with developing a detector and in the past I'd like to think I've had some influence with deeptech I've had some good conversations with them about machines and what I personally think would be needed in a machine for the US market.