Difficult targets?

Hi
While developing E Trac I have the following list of items that I noted were difficult for it to acquire accurate TID's, correct tones and in some cases an actual signal.
The items listed are actual targets both trash and good that were found during actual field work i.e. going out with the detector and digging all targets.
Some were poor in the audio stakes while others were poor target acquisitions from either the shape, metallic make up and their original orientation before I dug them out.
Here they are:
An Irish 6d (sixpence) of a strange low conductive alloy if cupro nickel
The metal from the top of a wine/champagne bottle
Hair clip
A bullett
A 1974 pre decimal penny
A small pistol ball
A Roman brooch
A Tombac button ( low grade grey / silver color )
A piece of jewelry ( not specified in my notes )
A blob of molten copper

My real Q. is: have any of you been finding these or similar items 'easily', or, are they missing from your finds bag?

Another Q. would be: those of you with CTX', are any of the above 'difficult finds?'

I'm sure I would consider many of them to be easy targets, though clearly every target has it's depth limit, which may be shallow for very low conductivity targets.
What's a '1974 pre-decimal penny'? 1964 maybe?
And the hair grip - is this a steel item?

Among the items I would say were 'tricky', are shotgun cartridge bases, the ones with very little, thin, corroded brass, and some iron in the igniter. They can fall in that nether-region between iron and non-iron, and are orientation-important.

Yeah, shot gun cartridge ' can be tricky!
Few weeks ago in woods, dug a load of them from well searched tracks and they were 'modern' with plastic pipe like bodies and metal ends that varied in size creating different TID's so couldn't notch them!

Hair clips are ferrous.

The 1974 pre decimal penny would be the equivalent of the Lincoln penny....
But why that particular coin was problematic, I can't say? Could have been a lower copper content compared to similar ones?

Roman broaches and Irish coins are elusive in the U.S.

Seriously though, bullets seem to LOVE my detectors, especially when I don't care about them (modern for example), but even musket balls (large and small), pesky camp lead, civil war era bullets and later love my machines, like it or not (usually don't - lol). This would include mainly R1, R2, F75, and ATP. Never had a problem with misc jewelry, albeit mostly costume. Coins, well that's a different story. R1 and R2 reign supreme at that, F75 is ok as long as it's not small silver, which just so happens to be mostly what is found at these old sites. It loves quarters and larger, but dimes and smaller have been tricky in mineralized California soil. Tombac and other flat buttons have been no problem at old Spanish era sites. We do find those in California from time to time

My Etrac would mis'ID many items in the woods, I took it and the MXT with a 12" concentric and I searched and marked all the Targets and the Etrac mis'ID 9 out of 14 targets, All the targets were within the 2 to 5" range which was a huge shock to the system because I thought it would have really cleaned up the place but sadly that was not the case, The area I searched you might of even been to, But it was ID'ing Silver sixpences as junk and crown caps as good targets, but to be honest The Etrac never was a trust worthy machine,

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2017 02:33AM by auminesweeper.

auminesweeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My Etrac would mis'ID many items in the woods, I t
> ook it and the MXT with a 12" concentric and I sea
> rched and marked all the Targets and the Etrac mis
> 'ID 9 out of 14 targets, All the targets were with
> in the 2 to 5" range which was a huge shock to the
> system because I thought it would have really clea
> ned up the place but sadly that was not the case,
> The area I searched you might of even been to, Bu
> t it was ID'ing Silver sixpences as junk and crown
> caps as good targets, but to be honest The Etrac n
> ever was a trust worthy machine,
>
> John


I surely don't agree with especially the last eleven words---NOT HARDLY!-------Everyone is entitled to their opinions I guess.-----------Del

D&P-OR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> auminesweeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My Etrac would mis'ID many items in the woods, I
> t
> > ook it and the MXT with a 12" concentric and I s
> ea
> > rched and marked all the Targets and the Etrac m
> is
> > 'ID 9 out of 14 targets, All the targets were wi
> th
> > in the 2 to 5" range which was a huge shock to t
> he
> > system because I thought it would have really cl
> ea
> > ned up the place but sadly that was not the case
> ,
> > The area I searched you might of even been to,
> Bu
> > t it was ID'ing Silver sixpences as junk and cro
> wn
> > caps as good targets, but to be honest The Etrac
> n
> > ever was a trust worthy machine,
> >
> > John
>
>
> I surely don't agree with especially the last elev
> en words---NOT HARDLY!-------Everyone is entitled
> to their opinions I guess.-----------Del

Del I am not looking for people to agree with me, I am stating the facts of what happened, I bought the Etrac because it was supposed to be the best machine on the market at the time, I spent a lot of time testing it out but due to the nature of the ground my Etrac could not ID targets, I will add that I also found quite a bit of Gold in the same area which I had missed using the Etrac,, Whether the soil was too acidic for the Etrac I don't know but something in the ground had a drastic effect on the Etrac, either way it should not of ID'd Silver coins as bottle tops and bottle tops as coins, But it did.

John.

John,

You're on the right track!

That is what I wanted to say / show.

Many times after digging the targets, they weren't what was expected to show up!

Lead pistol balls were "iffy" from loose soils.
Cupro nickel coins were 'terrible signals' and I had expected some junk to end up in my hand?

On gold, it's mostly very good as it can hit low conductors nicely if they are 'dense' and sitting right way up in the ground!
This I can say hand over heart because I used E Trac to search for lost rings for folks many times who called me up to do so.
Similarly, a few gold coins came up from open farmland with very positive indicators i.e. Tones, TID's as Fe 12 Co 20 etc and MID screen cursor placement.

ThanX for reading & contributing to my post.

Out of the box the ET eliminated the learning curve the Explores had. BUT...... i rarely used anything but tones and the smartscreen with the Explorer. They never really liked loose soil...... and recovery was slow, i dont believe that changed enough with the ET..... like it did with the CTX. You also lost that TINKLE deep silver gave on the Explorer. Ive been impressed with the CTX over the Explorer........ digging quarters at 12 to 14" on a beach and KNOWING the TID and tone was accurate is quite a change. I found the CTX to have a narrow difference between very low conductors and very high conductors. seems the wrap around is different. Id also say disc targets is a huge improvement over the other machines....... doesnt seem to be as much bleed. I will say however the CTX does NOT like broker rings..... open that gap up to far and a fairly good sized ring wont be found.

I never really notched out targets much..... i learned after digging a few to pass them up. A lot depends on what GOOD targets might fall in that disc range. IE on a CTX....... bottle caps. We didnt have the advantage of target smear the CTX has either. Its all about saving time digging..... and the willingness to MISS some good targets

Des...... there is still a common denominator of: ........ thin and/or low conductor........ detection difficulties.

Des D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John,
>
> You're on the right track!
>
> That is what I wanted to say / show.
>
> Many times after digging the targets, they weren't
> what was expected to show up!
>
> Lead pistol balls were "iffy" from loose soils.
> Cupro nickel coins were 'terrible signals' and I h
> ad expected some junk to end up in my hand?
>
> On gold, it's mostly very good as it can hit low c
> onductors nicely if they are 'dense' and sitting r
> ight way up in the ground!
> This I can say hand over heart because I used E Tr
> ac to search for lost rings for folks many times w
> ho called me up to do so.
> Similarly, a few gold coins came up from open farm
> land with very positive indicators i.e. Tones, TID
> 's as Fe 12 Co 20 etc and MID screen cursor placem
> ent.
>
> ThanX for reading & contributing to my post.

Des In all fairness to the Etrac the Leaf litter is made up of fine Rotting / Damp mixture almost like a peat based loam so whether that allowed it to create Air Pockets or not I am not sure, But like you found with musket balls in loose soil. Another issue I had was Getting ID numbers ranging from low FE numbers on Silver coins As listed below.

William 3rd Silver Shilling 08:39, 09:48, 10:42, 11:42, 11:43, 11:44, and 12:45

Small Roman Bronze, 11:11, 11:12, 12:12, 13:13, 14:13

I think that both of these Coins should have produced more stable numbers, The William III shilling is quite a large Silver coin so really I should not have got ( 7 ) Seven sets of numbers giving an FE of 08 to 12, and yet Crown caps produced better FE numbers yet a US Nickel produced a number of F 12: C 13 and pull tabs giving numbers between 12:13 to 12:25

Yet Hammered Cut Halfs give these numbers 11:07, 11:09, 12:09, 12:11, 12:13 which is quite stable really being pure Silver gave better results than the William III pure Silver Shilling, But when comparing the two sets of figure it makes me wonder how many good targets I walked away from leaving them in the ground.

Hope that helps,

John.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2017 02:49PM by auminesweeper.

My Deus is almost the complete opposite end of the scale to my previously owned Etrac and Explorer. Loves lead and thin copper/brass targets, including musket balls, shotgun cartridge ends, .22 shells, buttons, .303 shells, projectiles, thin lead sheeting etc - essentially any low conductors, not that it is a slouch on high conductors either. Gave away the multi-frequency detectors as they are not really suited to the sites I detect - simply too much ferrous & non-ferrous junk to deal with (poor recovery speed), with target ID's seldom being accurate.

Either way you would be a brave person relying on target ID's to "clean out" areas where older finds can be expected, especially if you get any target coexisting with iron or other junk. Simply too any variables exist to influence what comes up on the screen compared to what is actually in the ground. If you have, better go back and dig all non-ferrous and stick to tones for the important information, I think you would be surprised (or horrified) at what you ended up leaving in the ground.

That's just my personal preference, obviously won't be the same for all.

I did not take mine to any real bad sites because I learnt that lesson the hard way with the sovereign GT, Lol.

The Etracs are Great machines but you have to pick your places, It is no good swinging the thing hoping you will get lucky because the recovery speed they can't deal with items that are close to each other and running them wide open is not an option in junk filled sites, In compact ground they seem to excel and on the beach.

The up side of the way FBS ruled for a while until machines like the GMP etc came out is that many of those old site have come alive to single frequency machines, which is why people in the EU have found that the Deus and the Nokta machines and Racers give them the edge,

John.