Whites TRX

I bought a new TRX and it arrived today. It is the best pin pointer for me because it has great depth. When I hunt nice yards many times i can find the target from the surface therefor I don't need to cut a large plug. I still have my old TRX, but having a spare and not being able to resist that puke green color I had to take the plunge. The option of using two different batteries is great too. I always can find at least one type in the drawer to use. When I first purchased my original TRX I thought that Whites simply was in a hurry and never mentioned how to adjust the sensitivity of the TRX in the manual. I refer to Youtube for the info. So I get the new one in the mail today and still no mentioning in the manual. How to switch from vibrate mode is in there, but not the sensitivity. So what's up with that?

I read the instructions for the Garrett and still don't know how to change the sens.....one push, two pushes, hold this, wait for that, made me dizzy....I like the pp though, works well.

goodmore Wrote:
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> When I first purchased my original TRX I thought that Whites simply was in a hurry and never mentioned how to adjust the
> sensitivity of the TRX in the manual. ... So what's up with that?

Originally Management didn't want a sensitivity adjustment, but Engineering added it anyway. A compromise was reached: we could leave the sensitivity adjust feature in, but were not allowed to document it.

[youtu.be]

Very good pin, but it is necessary to check the stability when buying.
ps: At me he already the second, the first has lost when has fallen in a ravine.

Thanks for the reply Geotech. I'll leave the politics or internal battles to Whites. I love the pin pointer and I'll leave it at that.

Geotech Wrote:
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> Originally Management didn't want a sensitivity ad
> justment, but Engineering added it anyway. A compr
> omise was reached: we could leave the sensitivity
> adjust feature in, but were not allowed to documen
> t it.


I was looking for a replacement for my old Garrett. I really liked this pin pointer. After a small modification to the wires it even stopped falsing, but after many years of hard use it started falling apart.

I bought the orange Garrett "Pro-Pointer AT", but it drove me crazy. The recovery speed was awful (no comparison to the older design). It still beeps with continues tone, while it's moving (far) away from the target. But the worse thing for me was the OFF-function. The switch had to be held down for 1s in order to turn it off (a little bit longer and it switched into the setting mode...). On top of that it couldn't be turned off with metal near by. When I pressed and hold the button ("too early") while already moving towards the sheath (where my knife was located), it started beeping and the OFF-process got interrupted.
I'm a fast hunter, I consider every unnecessary movement as a waste of time and interruption of my flow.

I gave my best, tried hard to adapt to this pin pointer, but I failed. I lost my nerves after a few weeks and now it's "broken"...

I considered the TRX as an replacement (because a few viewers of my YT channel recommended it to me). I also waited for the new Xp, to see what it had to offer. After a short research I realized that both pin pointers can't be turned off with one short (!) press of a button. This ruled both out. The switch on Xp's pointer was even on the "wrong" side (I'm right-handed).
I watched a YT review of the TRX, where a guy said that the switch has to be held for 2 seconds in order to turn it off. This really shocked me. I had no other choice than to buy the "black" non waterproof "Garrett Pro". It is very slow (which still drives me mad), but it can be at least turned off instantly.

My question: Why is it so hard to make a pin pointer that can be turned off with one short press of a button? People who design this kind of gear probably don't metal detect, but I'm sure, they have at least testers, right?...

They don't provide an easy "off" button as the quick press operates the instant retune feature on most pinpointers. Doesn't the newer propointer 2 which is weatherproof offer the quick on/off feature (with retune included in the on/off process)?

I heard that Xp's pointer has a reset function (when the switch is being pressed), but I think that this could have been resolved differently (by switching both functions - instant OFF after short press and release, 0.5s or 1s for a reset - if it has to be there).

The newer (black) "Pro Pointer 2" offers the quick ON/OFF feature, but it isn't waterproof (just "weather"proof I believe).
I bought it only because of the quick OFF function. The problem I have with it - it's very slow (like the orange one) and the "beeping" range is not defined very well (it starts with a constant beep even when a (relatively small) object is not at the tip yet).

The sensitivity to real tiny objects could have been better too (much better).

I also have a problem when I'm activating it "too fast". That means, I take it out, press the button while I'm moving my hand towards the target. If there is not enough time between pressing the button and "arriving" in the range of the object (with still some room one might think), the pin pointer jams and doesn't detect anything.

This can be dangerous. When I realized this behavior for the first time, I was investigating a hole with a bigger target. I pulled the pin pointer out, pressed the button, moved it towards the object and got no signal. I was surprised and thought: "was I off with my coil?" I started stabbing with my knife and realized that the object was there, where I expected it to be, but the pin pointer was completely mute. The object turned out to be a hand grenade...
It could be worse - a nice, large silver coin for example, but still.

P.s. Sorry for bringing the "wrong" pin pointer into this thread.

x2000 Wrote:
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> My question: Why is it so hard to make a pin pointer that can be turned off with one short press of a button?

It's not hard, but it's a trade-off with usability. On the TRX there is a single button, and that single button has to be used for on, off, and changing user preferences. User preferences are typically set once and never again, so it is still possible to make the single button perform a quick-on and a quick-off. But the TRX is a full-blown VLF design, and a retune function was genuinely needed. This either requires a second button, or elimination of the quick-off feature.

An alternative question might be:

Why is it so hard to press the button for 1 second to turn off a device?

This may sound like a snarky question, but it's not meant to be. I'm working on another pinpointer right now that behaves in a similar way: one button for quick-on, retune, and hold-for-1s-turnoff. The press-n-hold for turn-off is also used on regular detectors like the AT-Pro, and is commonly used with other electronic devices like my Garmin GPS. In any case, I've used both types of pinpointers and found the ratchet-retune feature to be more valuable than the quick-off feature. In my new design, I've thought about adding a double-click for quick-off but I'm concerned that folks with jittery fingers will get frustrated that the things keeps turning off when they meant to retune.

I have arthriseis in my hands so bad some I have trouble just to push the on-off button. I don't know how much a water proof on-off button cost, but I would pay a little more so I don't have to push so much to changing settings. Try and come up with something like that. flintstone

Geotech - Thank you for the answer. I wanted to use the Garmin GPS receiver as an example too (because I track my hunts with this device).

In my opinion there are 3 types of devices.

1. Devices where your life could get in danger, when you turn it off accidentally.
Example: a phone, GPS (where you can't follow your route back etc.). I have absolutely no problem holding the switch of my Garmin GPS receiver for 1s.

2. Devices or functions that can couse loss of data.
Example: Safety questions/confirmation before deleting a picture or formatting the card in a camera.

I will split the next one into:

3a. Devices that have to be turned off instantly.
Example: flashlight, radio etc.

3b. Devices that have to be turned off instantly and very often.
Example: A pin pointer, a picture camera.

To built an delay into these devices doesn't make them "user friendly".

A metal detector like the Garrett AT-Pro can't be compared to a pin pointer, because you turn it off only once after a few hours (in most of the cases). I have no problems doing it with some of my metal detectors.

Your question why I can't hold this button for 1s is valid too. Of course I could do it (at least I tried). I'm sure, when a Garrett III comes out and it has to be switched off by turning the battery cover by 360°, some people would probably think, "there is nothing wrong with it, I just take my time and turn...". But if you give them the possibility to turn it off instantly, I'm sure they wouldn't like to spin the cover.

I just don't want to repeat something that shouldn't be neccessary in the first place. I try to improve the way I hunt. If something slows me down, or disturbs my movement (and when there is an alternative to it), the weakest link in the chain has to be replaced.
Metal detecting is (at least for me) not just a robotic process. I have to feel good, while I'm doing it, because in the end it has a big influence on the decisions I make and the outcome of the hunt (it's all psychology out in the woods).

I really wanted to give the TRX a try, but I decided against it (only) because of the switch function. It would be great to see it being changed some day...

P.s. Maybe it would be possible to implement a retune function that can be activated, after holding the button for 0.5s - 1s, while an instant press and release would turn it off.
I'm not sure, but I can imagine, that a double click could be a little bit problematic, if the timing isn't right (an old person with not enough feeling in their hands, or someone with cold fingers during the winter - it's just a thought).

X2000,
I understand what you're saying, but I think you've built a "mountain out of a mole hill" based on incorrect data.

One of the unfortunate problems with trusting YT videos, is that a large percentage of them are BS.
Perhaps I should say, "They may contain slight inaccuracies."

Such is the case where the guy said that it takes 2 seconds to turn off the TRX.
It does not.
It takes less than a second.

I just timed mine;
Both of mine appear to take aprox 0.75sec from the time I press the button to the time it's completely off...that's close enough to 'instant off' for me.
Of course, I don't know if all TRX's are that way...I only have 2. I suppose it's possible there are individual differences and/or differing production runs.

I have the opposite problem that you think the TRX has...I have trouble accidentally turning it off when I'm trying to do a re-tune or 'ground grab'.

I suggest perhaps finding one to try first, before deciding it won't work for you...perhaps a fellow hunter might let you test one.

There are things that simply can't be shown on a YT video, such as the fact that the button requires significantly less pressure to activate than the competition.
(Much easier on those of use with arthritis or nerve damage...like Flintstone was alluding.)

You might actually like it...I like mine.
Either way, good luck and have fun.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2017 10:08PM by Mike in CO.

Two comments:

First, I love this forum - the vast majority of posts are relevant to out favorite hobby. Most of the folks remember that we're among friends here - and keep it thoughtful and polite - mostly. Add to that the fact that folks like Carl Moreland, Engineering Manager at First Texas feels comfortable making detailed posts about technical stuff and it adds up to a good thing.

As far as my second comment.......oh yes, now I remember - did Carl just say something aboutmFT finally making a decent pinpointer??

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

lytle78 Wrote:
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> did Carl just say something about FT finally making a decent pinpointer??

Hahaha I said no such thing as far as you know. Move along, nothin' to see here.

My opinion (and not only mine) is that a good pin should speed up the process of locating the find.
That is, it should quickly turn on and just as quickly turn off.
That is, took a pin from the holster, briefly pressed the button on, localized the find, again a short press on the button and the pin should be turned off ...
The detachment from the ground is best fixed by long pressing of the button, and the change of settings is made when the button is pressed for a long time when the pin is turned on.

The xp pointer is fast on/off, it's really speeded up my target recovery. When i used the makro pointer in a noisy area i had to remove my full earcup to hear the beeping of the pointer (didn't much like the vibrate mode) the xp sends it straight to the headphones.
It's a bit more expensive, but it has a few neat features especially the one where you can set it to sound off from the control pad if you drop/lose it, the holster is crappy though, a bit of a fumble!

The best thing about the trx is the quick press ratcheting. The ability to pick up a coin at 4" out the the tip to within a frogs hair of the target is something folks just dont seem to appreciate as much as they should in my opinion. If youre strictly a coin shooter and need precision in the hole with valuable coins or want to leave as small a recovery foot print as possible, its a great asset.

It seems my buddies that had the quick press pro pointers for years didnt like the TRX and Carrot long presses.

Now if I had quibble, it would be that when its in silent mode, it still makes an extremely loud "bee-boop" when powered on. The carrot doesnt.

Regarding:"... if I had a quibble, it would be that when it's in silent mode, it still makes a loud "bee-boop" when powered on"
When I first heard of a certain pinpointer doing this, I though the guy must've got a faulty one. Clearly a product designed by someone who never uses it. Silent mode is SILENT, it seems simple enough. If I'm low-key detecting, perhaps where I 'shouldn't be', I don't want anyone wondering what the heck that beeping noise is.

And regarding the "1-second hold to turn off", I guess you could learn to live with it, but it IS somewhat inconvenient. The power-on self-cal delay of the original black Garrett pp is similarly bearable. But if you've ever used the budget Sherlock/Scanmaster pointers (for example), with a push-and-hold button, all the high quality machines seem cumbersome in comparison.

I like the TRX that only points at the end, I have used the Carrot and think I found the target and it is in the side. The TRX puts you right on the target, if you miss it in the side, you don't dig deeper thinking it is deeper. I use the Carrot a lot in water, I know the TRX is waterproof also but like to lay the Carrot on its side and hunt. Broth are good pointers. The Fisher I had just didn't get depth, a guy gave it to me because of that and I gave it to a friend. I like Fisher detectors, I just got a new F75. They just need to make a good pointer. flintstone

Flintstone Wrote:
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> I like the TRX that only points at the end...

The tip-vs-side detection preference depends a lot on how you hunt. In manicured lawns where you want to dig the smallest hole possible the tip-only is best. A relic hunter in a plowed field is likely to be dragging a decent shovel and will plop out a big pile of dirt he wants to scan rapidly; side sensitivity helps speed that up.

Ironically, tip-vs-side isn't something you design, it's a fall-out of the design. The TRX has a true coaxial IB coil (just like the Sunray probes) and that results in tip-only. Most other pinpointers are energy-theft designs (a variant of BFO) and have a mono coil that is side-sensitive. A mono coil PI probe is also side sensitive.

Try this. I only use the vibrate mode. It works on either the TRX or carrot for me in parks. Turn on the pinpointer in the air. Lower the tip to the target and find the center of the target. Push the button quickly and the pinpointer will ratchet down automatically it's sensitivity to just barely vibrate. Now you know where it is side to side within 1/4". With a little experience you can determine if a another quick button push is needed. Do air testing using this method and you will understand quickly what is happening. Owner's manual not needed.

Geotech Wrote:
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> Ironically, tip-vs-side isn't something you design
> , it's a fall-out of the design. The TRX has a tru
> e coaxial IB coil (just like the Sunray probes) an
> d that results in tip-only. Most other pinpointers
> are energy-theft designs (a variant of BFO) and ha
> ve a mono coil that is side-sensitive. A mono coil
> PI probe is also side sensitive.

So, Carl, since it has an IB coil/circuit, wouldn't that mean it would be relatively simple to add basic discrimination to the design?
I would find that much more interesting/valuable than quibbling over turn on/off times.

I spent 20 minutes last night digging and locating about 13 old rusty square nails in the bottom of a 12"+ hole hoping to find a non-ferrous target that turns out wasn't there.
I like the Sunrays, but don't like the weight...and I have several detectors (not nearly as many as you, but a lot) so it's not practical to get a Sunray for each.

mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2017 12:20AM by Mike in CO.

Mike in CO Wrote:
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> So, Carl, since it has an IB coil/circuit, wouldn't that mean it would be relatively
> simple to add basic discrimination to the design?

Yep.

@Mike in CO,
it must have been one of these "table reviews" from people who get stuff for free, just to make a video (or they buy it and sent it back without ever having used it in the field). I was looking for this specific info and the guy was the first one, who mentioned the amount of time that it takes to turn it off.
I guess I should have asked on this forum instead, but I got this misinformation and now it's too late. I don't know any detectorists in my area, that's why I have to rely on "experiences from the internet". 0.75s sounds indeed much better than 2s, but it's still a compromise for me.

Could you please tell me what happens, when you press (and hold) the OFF button, while moving into the range of a metal object? Will metal interrupt the OFF-process, like it was with my orange Garrett?

What happens when you turn it on (let's say 20" away from the target), while moving the tip (at "normal" speed) towards a larger object (tennis ball size, or maybe a bullet shell)? Will it jam and remain silent like the black Garrett II?


@ghound,
I was looking at the Makro pointer too, but as far as I remember the ON/OFF button was located at the rear end. I knew that this is going to be a problem for me.


@vfp7,
this is how I see it too. Everything else is just annoying.


@Pimento,
Garrett's old pro pointer model was my first metal detector. I used it for months (searching in "all metal" mode around trees etc.), before I bought the Vista Gold. I guess I got used to the instant switch off. The short time with the orange Garrett was a nightmare... Maybe I should give "Sherlock/Scanmaster" a try and come back with a smile .

From your description it seems the retune feature that exists on most pinpointers is the source of your issues, and the feature that hinders any sort of quick on/off process.

You either have the ability to retune via a quick press of the on/off button (trx, AT, MI-6), or in the case of the propointer 2 it occurs on startup to tune out mineralisation/salt. Obviously if you turn on the PP2 too close to a target, there is the possibility of tuning out the target all together during the startup process.

I also work fast whilst detecting, and have never found it an issue on either the TRX, AT propointer or MI-6 hindering my rate of recovery. Between the Deus and either of those pinpointers, you can work extremely fast, cover plenty of ground, and accrue an impressive number of finds in a short space of time.

If you require a simple on/off pinpointer with auto tune (and momentary switch), maybe something like the older Whites Bullseye II will better suit your style of detecting - the Mars MD Pinpointer also looks to have a quick press on/off process. Unfortunately as with any product, you are not going to please 100% of customers on what features to include or leave off a product, nor on suitabilty to an individual's style of detecting.

x2000 Wrote:
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> Could you please tell me what happens, when you pr
> ess (and hold) the OFF button, while moving into t
> he range of a metal object? Will metal interrupt t
> he OFF-process, like it was with my orange Garrett
> ?
>
> What happens when you turn it on (let's say 20" aw
> ay from the target), while moving the tip (at "nor
> mal" speed) towards a larger object (tennis ball s
> ize, or maybe a bullet shell)? Will it jam and rem
> ain silent like the black Garrett II?

x2000,
Glad to help...just tested now.
Test performed with fresh 9v battery and sensitivity set to 3 (out of a max of 4).

1. Metal proximity does not appear to interrupt the off process, or affect it in any fashion.
In fact the off button interrupts any target signal from any distance (even held directly on big metal) and does a normal shutdown.

2. I could not get the pinpointer to act like the G-II. While moving 'normally', and turning on from approximately 18-20" from a very large metal object (my metal desk frame) didn't appear to even de-tune much.
If I started to power-on within about 7", and moved the pinpointer fast enough to touch the metal before the pinpointer had completely turned on, It interrupted the power-on tones with a slight pause followed by a low-high-low triple tone, then finished it's power-on with noticeable but still relatively moderate de-tuning. (IOW, it could still easily detect the metal.)
Momentarily pressing the on button while holding the pointer away from the metal reset the tuning back to normal.

Hope that is of some value to you,

mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2017 09:13AM by Mike in CO.

@Mike,
thank you very much for this valuable information, I appreciate your help. It would be impossible to find it in any of the (so called) "reviews" on YT.

@Aurelic,
thank you for the answer too.
I will try to upload an example that shows one of the mentioned problems (if I find the footage).
Ps. I will take a look at the "Mars MD" pointer too.

Sensitivity level 4 overloads, level 3 is perfect, but the manual don't say any thing about having a sensitivity level 3 ?