Here's the new Minelab Equinox

I saw that video, Sod-buster. That should offer some tidbit of "hope" to those who have been wondering about the Equinox's performance in the wet...

Steve

wet sand dig

Yep, sanjuro, that one is quite impressive.

That's actually the one I THOUGHT Sod-buster had posted (just saw the "facebook.com" URL on his link, and assumed it to be this one that you posted, as I had just seen this one, with the buried coin on the beach).

Like I said, should give a tidbit of hope to all of those who have been wondering about the Equinox and salt water...

Steve

Dec 31

"I was detecting today with two old buddies.
They assisted years ago with some 'E Trac' preliminary testing...
When it was eventually released, the Boss gave them one each... Free Gratis.

Today, they still using very old 'Fisher 1266-X' and they very happy with them. They occasionally take their 'E Trac's for a spin but invariably revert to their 'Fisher's'

I had told them back in September sometime about a new release pending from Minelab
They didn't even mention it today or ask about it since I first mentioned it or have even googled it to my knowledge! These guys are experienced searchers. No obselescence here!"

"Happy New Year!"

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Faster processors are a given but faster processing means more susceptibility to EMI
> and greater analog-to-digital processing errors.

Why is that?

Is this the Equinox? Lots of internal pics and info here
[fccid.io]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2018 06:59PM by ghound.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this the Equinox? Lots of internal pics and inf
> o here
> [fccid.io]

Certainly is...nice find.

I'm a little surprised they test radiated emissions of a metal detector with the coil disconnected...seems counter-intuitive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2018 07:33PM by Mike in CO.

Agreed, good find, ghound.

The reason the machine has to pass the EMC emissions test is because they've designed their own bluetooth circuitry, as part of the main PCB. Some other products use off-the-shelf ready-built and approved modules. These can then be added to an existing product without getting expensive EMC re-testing done. (the Whites V3i has such a module for the headphone link).
Because the test is for the 2.4GHz transmitter specifically, and for higher frequency emissions in general, they can presumably argue the VLF coil is not radiating anything of interest. However, the coil's cable could act as an antenna, potentially allowing the control box to emit more noise, so I'm surprised they don't have it fitted. In my experience of product EMC testing, it's normal to replicate how the product would be used in real life, but cabling/wiring to other appliances isn't faithfully done.

I thought you tech guys would like it, way beyond me, but i hope to learn more as it's discussed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2018 09:58PM by ghound.

Should of made a new thread for that LOL.


ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this the Equinox? Lots of internal pics and inf
> o here
> [fccid.io]

Modern devices use higher frequency (more computations) and lower power (efficiency) and EMI now superimposes a relatively larger noise signal on the desirable circuit. More: [books.google.com]

And obviously, digitizing a weak analog signal that contains a relatively high error as a resultant from external EMI, or less than perfect circuit design, will only produce an erroneous digital output.

Does anyone know the bit-size of the Equinox A/D converter?

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern devices use higher frequency (more computat
> ions) and lower power (efficiency) and EMI now sup
> erimposes a relatively larger noise signal on the
> desirable circuit. More: [books.google.co]
> m/books
>
> And obviously, digitizing a weak analog signal tha
> t contains a relatively high error as a resultant
> from external EMI, or less than perfect circuit de
> sign, will only produce an erroneous digital output.

I read the book in your link, and I believe you are mis-characterizing what the book promotes.
It simply noted that faster & lower power chips that are made with tighter fab densities are more susceptible to Electrostatic damage...which is not EMI.
(And that is true with all chips, including RAM/ROM and other support chips...not just CPUs. It also allows for earlier chip failure due to continuous substrate crystalline migration.)

Additionally, the faster A/D sampling is done/processed, the more accurate the signal...especially if your slower processing gets you too close to, or below the Nyquist rate, and aliasing rears it's ugly head.
(Also newer A/D converters tend to be faster and have significantly lower noise than older/slower ones.)

I personally think that EMI has become more of a problem lately...not because the newer electronics are more or less susceptible...but because there's just a butt-load more EMI now.
And I've got this sneaking suspicion that Minelab is perfectly aware of this...and has designed the Equinox accordingly...

mike



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2018 07:24AM by Mike in CO.

Mike...... I think you may be correct.,.,.,.,.,., and on multiple fronts.

Regarding the A-to-D converter, it's quite likely to be 24-bit, there aren't too many bit-count options at this level of precision. However, just because the converter can theoretically do it, doesn't mean a real-world circuit will allow it. So the four least-significant bits might be 'lost'. From what I've seen, 18 to 20 bits is needed for this kind of 'direct' sampling.

Anyone know if the Equinox has multiple languages built in? (The CTX did I believe, but the E-Trac did not. I am in Germany, hence my question (I prefer English.))
I don't see a manual online and have searched Google but no results, outside of multi language screen protectors.

Thx in advance



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2018 05:27PM by earthmansurfer.

"Thought I read English, Spanish, German, French, Portugese, Russian (and others?) available!"
(hobby banned in Portugal but probably aimed at South America where Portugese spoken and possibly Africa?)"

Des D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Thought I read English, Spanish, German, French,
> Portugese, Russian (and others?) available!"
> (hobby banned in Portugal but probably aimed at So
> uth America where Portugese spoken and possibly Af
> rica?)"


What I mean is can you just select the language from the settings (like on the CTX) or do you have to order one in a specific language? (Well, not you guys in The States! lol)

Thx

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason the machine has to pass the EMC emissions test is because...

...it contains electronics. Nowadays just about everything has to go through EMI testing. Anything with an internal "clock" over 9kHz (pretty much anything with a micro) is tested as an "unintentional radiator," anything that "transmits" a signal over 9kHz is tested as an "intentional radiator." Europe is in the process of taking this all the way to DC, and the FCC will probably follow. I predict the day when even a AA battery has to pass EMI testing.

Concerning clock speed, faster isn't necessarily worser. As processors get faster the self-generated EMI moves up in frequency which is usually a good thing for detectors (farther away from the operating frequency). Plus, faster processors are usually fabbed in smaller geometry silicon which not only run faster, they run on less current, and that almost always means lower EMI. Faster ADCs and faster micros allow higher oversampling and more digital filtering, resulting in higher processing gains. None of this speaks to external EMI (such as power lines), which has nothing to do with processor speed or ADC resolution.

I will leave here a proposal for Minelab and other manufacturers.
Apparently in the coil is the main computing module of the detector, and because of this, the prices for the coils will be high.
I would suggest that this very computational module be made removable so that it can be attached to various coils.
This would allow achieving:
1. Reduction of prices for coils (sensors).
2. Involve in the manufacture of coils from outside manufacturers, which would raise interest in the detector from the buyers.
3. Modularity would leave the potential for further development of the detector, when it would be sufficient to replace only one module for increasing the power of the detector.
4. Such a scheme would facilitate the maintainability of the detector.

From myself I can add that the future in metal detectors for modularity and standardization ...
(I apologize for my English, I wrote while sitting at work)

I'm actually a bit surprised that the EQX is running a low end off the shelf general purpose 32BIT Cortex M3 CPU.

ARM® Cortex® -M3 32-bit RISC core operating at a 72 MHz frequency, high-speed embedded memories (Flash memory up to 128 Kbytes and SRAM up to 20 Kbytes), and an extensive range of enhanced I/Os and peripherals connected to two APB buses. All devices offer two 12-bit ADCs, three general purpose 16-bit timers plus one PWM timer, as well as standard and advanced communication interfaces: up to two I2Cs and SPIs, three USARTs, an USB and a CAN.

These features make the STM32F103xx medium-density performance line microcontroller family suitable for a wide range of applications such as motor drives, application control, medical and handheld equipment, PC and gaming peripherals, GPS platforms, industrial applications, PLCs, inverters, printers, scanners, alarm systems, video intercoms, and HVACs.


I guess if the EQX sucks, we can always load Android on it

It’s not just damage; it’s the creation of spurious signals. From my link:



I doubt many detectors are permanently damaged by EMI, no matter where they hunt. New detectors are more susceptible to EMI because their power consumption is lower. Older analog units are relatively power hungry and, by definition, less EMI susceptible.

Of course, the faster the A/D conversion, the more software calculations that can be made without the user (us) seeing a delay. And the faster the calculations, the more sophisticated the error reduction software can be employed. Many of Minelab’s recent patents primarily relate to methods of error reduction through software. I bet many of these techniques were patented years ago and sat waiting for improvements in hardware.

The theoretical Nyquist rate and aliasing aren’t going to be a problem with metal detectors; they operate VFL or between 5-50 kHz. The Equinox ARM RISC core operates at 72 MHz or 1000x the transmit frequency.

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone know if the Equinox has multiple languages
> built in? (The CTX did I believe, but the E-Trac d
> id not. I am in Germany, hence my question (I pref
> er English.))
> I don't see a manual online and have searched Goog
> le but no results, outside of multi language scree
> n protectors.
>
> Thx in advance

Minelab has updated the etrac to be selectable multi-language so I would assume equinox will be as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2018 12:49AM by detectingMO.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm actually a bit surprised that the EQX is runni
> ng a low end off the shelf general purpose 32BIT C
> ortex M3 CPU.
>
> ARM® Cortex® -M3 32-bit RISC core operating
> at a 72 MHz frequency, high-speed embedded memorie
> s (Flash memory up to 128 Kbytes and SRAM up to 20
> Kbytes), and an extensive range of enhanced I/Os a
> nd peripherals connected to two APB buses. All dev
> ices offer two 12-bit ADCs, three general purpose
> 16-bit timers plus one PWM timer, as well as stand
> ard and advanced communication interfaces: up to t
> wo I2Cs and SPIs, three USARTs, an USB and a CAN.
>
> These features make the STM32F103xx medium-density
> performance line microcontroller family suitable f
> or a wide range of applications such as motor driv
> es, application control, medical and handheld equi
> pment, PC and gaming peripherals, GPS platforms, i
> ndustrial applications, PLCs, inverters, printers,
> scanners, alarm systems, video intercoms, and HVAC
> s.
>
>
> I guess if the EQX sucks, we can always load Andro
> id on it


Apparently the main computing unit of Nox is in the coil.
And in the block are located only control functions, voice and interfaces.
So it's more important to pay attention to the coil ...
ps: Serious data processing requires a performance of more than 30 MFlops ...
IMHO

"Apparently the main computing unit of Nox is in the coil"
VFP, where did you obtain this info? It seems very unlikely to me. One reason is it makes the product expensive, and the Equinox is clearly designed to to sell for a low cost for it's technical specification. The main PCB also appears to have plenty of hardware on it, certainly enough for DAC's, ADC's etc.
I expect the coil contains quite simple electronics, though there is the possibility of a relay switching in different windings (like XTerra, Deus, Impact), mainly for the high 'prospecting' freqs. (I've not heard any mention of 'clicking coils' yet, anyone else seen anything?).

Don’t CTX coils have the A/D conversion within the coil such that a digital signal is sent up the wire?

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don’t CTX coils have the A/D conversion within the
> coil such that a digital signal is sent up the wir
> e?

+1



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2018 03:04PM by vfp7.

I’m not certain what, if any A/D conversion happens within a CTX coil. I understand that the coils have a pre-amp, an accelerometer, and a microcontroller to identify the coil and provide ‘security’ to prevent use of aftermarket coils.

Is this use of an accelerometer in the coil.
Is this patented?

Are any other manufacturers doing???

Was this what happened with CTX coil with electronics in the coil primarily due to accelerometer??
Vs say Etrac.

Or was the proprietary coil thingy the priority/goal, with accelerometer added since electronics are indeed placed in coil??

All things considered is CTX better than etrac for coil size for depth??
Is the use of accelerometer in coil actually tied to CTX's improved separation?

Or is this really- the smart coil thingy just a sham/scam (great marketing ploy) solely for proprietary reasons?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2018 03:47PM by Sod-buster.

M/L may use an accelerometer to determine direction of coil motion and coil speed. They may apply different software algorithms to the signal based on coil acceleration/speed, both of which may be inferred from an accelerator, knowing that the signal amplitude/phase/shape (?) is dependent upon coil acceleration/speed.

All I can say,
I pulled some hellacious targets out of polluted sites using Etrac with Minelab wiggle using 10x12 sef coil.

Maybe Minelab should make a CTX (not so smart ) coil disable the accelerometer and send it to some folks to compare to smart coils.
Then we might know something.

All speculation here from me as far as the smart coils.

Their detectors do work though, no question.

Maybe XP screwed the pooch here.
Wonder if.
XP would have made their coils proprietary.
So only originally bought coils would work.
And if a new coil was purchased, a buyer had to go in and download version program again with coil specific code for the new coil to work.

And codes coils of newer coils once loaded would actually time out, original coil codes too.

So no buying used coils to operate Deus period as far as link up with either or headphone module or remote.

Could we see in the future??



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2018 04:29PM by Sod-buster.