Here's the new Minelab Equinox

goodmore Wrote:
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> I personally don't think depth will be an issue. The Safari is every bit as
> deep as the CTX.

I believe the Safari was introduced before the CTX; so, I see this comparison as irrelevant.

Whenever Minelab introduces a machine with more features and/or better performance than previous models, the price goes up not down. In fact, the price often goes way up. Since the price of the Equinox is so low, unless Minelab has changed its entire marketing and pricing approach, I do not believe the Equinox will have better performance than the Etrac or CTX.

Cabin Fever Wrote:
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> The one area CTX and E-Trac might still have an ad
> vantage is target ID at depth.
> In my minerized ground there is no other detector
> I have ever used that can ID a coin at 8-10 inches
> with as much accuracy as the FBS detectors..
> I'm not talking just getting a signal at those dep
> ths. I'm talking proper ID at these depths.
> Can't wait to find out. I texted my dealer preorde
> ring my 800 at 3:40 this morning.
> Ya, I'm excited for this one!
> Bryan


Cabin Fever, you nailed it. It is something that has been discussed here ad nauseum over the years. IMO, there is NOTHING out there that IDs at depth better than the FBS platform, consistently, in average across many different types of soil. Period. Are there deeper units? YES. No question. BUT -- are there units that consistently can give you accurate, usable ID info to the same depths as FBS, in the majority of different types of soil? NOT in my experience.

I ran an F70 for awhile, many years back. Many folks, in mild soil, say they get good ID with an F70/75 down to 8-10" or more. No chance whatsoever you are doing that consistently in my dirt, and my dirt isn't even all that bad. My F70 was limited to 5-6" with anything even APPROACHING a barely acceptable ID. MAYBE 7" on a quarter -- assuming "accurate" to you means an occasional number, on some sweeps, that bounces up to a number halfway to two-thirds of the way between "iron" and a "quarter ID". Beyond that, it assigned a solid, consistent iron ID to every target beyond 6-7" deep. Period. Too many hunts with my FBS-using partners saying "hey, I got one here, I think it's a deep silver dime, come give a listen..." only to have me swing over it, hear it just fine, but see a pure iron ID on my screen, is what led me to eventually switch to FBS. I've never looked back. Many people don't seem to get this. YES, there are MANY good machines out there. Much better ones, if you are going after iron-adjacent-to-good targets (i.e. partially masked stuff, in NASA Tom's "carpet of nails" scenario). BUT -- if you are a person who hunts mainly hunted-out turf, where many of the targets that are left (aside from those that are masked) are DEEP, the thing you need is a deep machine WITH THE BEST ID AT THOSE DEPTHS THAT YOU CAN GET. And the answer to that, in most US soil, is FBS. This is my experience.

I am not typing this to sound like a shill for Minelab, or to sound like a "know it all." The reason is I am saying all this, is because when I am trying to get detector advice from someone, I need them to know EXACTLY what I'm asking. I will buy a new machine the very second that two things happen...1 -- I can afford it, and 2 -- it is as deep or deeper than my Explorer WHICH MEANS, it can give ACCURATE, USABLE ID INFORMATION deeper than my current FBS-based unit, IN MY DIRT. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard someone tell me "this machine is deeper than FBS." And like I said, many are. My F70 was. Surprisingly, my Gold Bug Pro "DP," with 11" DD coil, was. I know these two for a fact, verified in my test garden. BUT, I have yet to see one COME CLOSE to FBS in terms of ID with depth. Again, surprisingly my Gold Bug Pro was the closest I have ever tested...it could fairly accurately ID a coin to a similar depth, not QUITE as accurate as FBS, not QUITE as deep, but at least respectable...but there were other things that made it a poorer choice. Bottle caps, for instance. I NEVER dig a rusty screw cap with an FBS machine. I will hear them register as a quarter ALL DAY on any single-frequency VLF machine I've ever used (even though yes, there are some halfway reliable "tricks" to figure them out...but you are still stopping to think about them, whereas you COMPLETELY IGNORE them on an FBS unit. Completely).

Anyway, that's awfully long-winded, but what will push me to switch from the Explorer/E-Trac, is an affordable unit that MATCHES, or hopefully, even slightly, EXCEEDS the ID ability AT DEPTH that FBS offers.

In light of that, will the Equinox do that? My guess is NO...

If that becomes a yes, a TRUE yes (not just an "is it deeper" yes), then I'm all in...

Steve



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2017 08:29PM by steveg.

Double Post



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2017 08:03PM by earthmansurfer.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
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> Junk and Disorderly Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cabin Fever Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Brandon Niece says the Equinox has relegated h
> is
> > C
> > > TX to his number 2 spot.
> >
> >
> > As he is part of the new machines promotional te
> am
> > he is hardly likely too say anything but that,it
> s
> > basically the same when any new machine is launc
> he
> > d.
>
> After watching the latest video on it, I don't thi
> nk he is over hyping it. It is indeed super fast
> and was air testing better than my CTX can. Tones
> sound great too; very similar to my ear, to the CT
> X. It's not like it is something brand new to Bra
> ndon either that he is just now laying eyes on for
> the show; he has been testing it for several month
> s. There's a lot of comparisons and testing you c
> an do if you've had a machine that long; enough to
> draw a good conclusion with.

Finally a new LIGHT Minelab to pull me out of the shadows. I had said here many times, if Minelab can build and E-Trac in a (close to a) Deus body / weight, I'm on board. It doesn't have color or that 2D screen I LOVE but it has them tones, or close enough. It would be a dream to get something like an E-Trac in a light body, but do give me slightly better depth, been many years and single frequency machines like the AKA Signum get more depth than the CTX (in my ground).
If the depth is indeed phenomenol as he stated in that video, then I will deal withe lack of 2D screen, BUT notice there are ONLY two models. I can't believe they either won't have a high end model with color and a 2D screen or won't make at least the 2D screen available in a (paid) update.

Now they are in Deus territory. USB updates, perhaps some high end paid ones. The CTX 3030 is old and bulky, top end for sure, but are they selling enough? Perhaps they can earn more selling lots of a Equinox Color Flagship for half the CTX3030? More like an E-Trac replacement.

Question - If the MF tech is different, perhaps the 2D is a technical problem or nah? (I guess you can get the feeling that I want that screen.) There are those Co and Fe numbers to consider...

Albert

earthmansurfer Wrote:

> Finally a new LIGHT Minelab to pull me out of the
> shadows. I had said here many times, if Minelab ca
> n build and E-Trac in a (close to a) Deus body / w
> eight, I'm on board. It doesn't have color or that
> 2D screen I LOVE but it has them tones, or close e
> nough. It would be a dream to get something like a
> n E-Trac in a light body, but do give me slightly
> better depth, been many years and single frequency
> machines like the AKA Signum get more depth than t
> he CTX (in my ground).
> If the depth is indeed phenomenol as he stated in
> that video, then I will deal withe lack of 2D scre
> en, BUT notice there are ONLY two models. I can't
> believe they either won't have a high end model wi
> th color and a 2D screen or won't make at least th
> e 2D screen available in a (paid) update.
>
> Now they are in Deus territory. USB updates, perha
> ps some high end paid ones. The CTX 3030 is old an
> d bulky, top end for sure, but are they selling en
> ough? Perhaps they can earn more selling lots of a
> Equinox Color Flagship for half the CTX3030? More
> like an E-Trac replacement.
>
> Question - If the MF tech is different, perhaps th
> e 2D is a technical problem or nah? (I guess you c
> an get the feeling that I want that screen.) There
> are those Co and Fe numbers to consider...
>
> Albert

Albert,

You are hitting on something, in your last paragraph there. I am NOT an electronics guy, so others will be able to confirm or deny what I'm about to say. But I don't think you CAN simply "stick" a 2-D display on a unit. I think the whole POINT of FBS is that it gets FE information, somehow, by some "magic," and can "separate it" from CO information. However it does this, it's not perfect, but it's good ENOUGH that it seems to me (just from using it for years and getting a "feel" for what must be happening based on my experience using it) that it somehow pulls out the GROUND FE, and "separates that" from CO information. The way it SEEMS to me is, a single freq. VLF reads a target, and if YOU have ground balanced (which means through ground balance you have accounted as best as you can for ground FE), it will give you the best read it can on the target, with FE and CO information "mixed into one number." My F70 might ID a dime at 6" as a 45-56-70-15-62 on successive sweeps...because the soil WHICH IS BIASING the conductive read of the target will yield an ID number that is "skewed lower" than an air-test number. That's what I saw with my eyes, and it's how my brain has interpreted what is happening. BUT, with FBS, somehow ground FE is not "balanced out," but is somehow separated out, and thus "displayed" within the FE number. The benefit though is -- with it being "separated out," somehow, the CO number is left ALONE, as a SEPARATE READOUT, and thus -- with the ground FE "stripped out" to some degree, the CO number is allowed to remain much more stable/accurate at depth. SO, on that same dime I described above, at 6", instead of my SINGLE DIGIT F70 ID being "biased lower" into a 45-56-70-15-62 number, as I sweep over that dime, the main "bias" happening on my Explorer is CONTAINED MOSTLY WITHIN THE FE number. Thus, instead of that dime at 6" reading the same as the airtest ID (03-29), it will read 05-30, 07-29, 03-28, 01-30, 14-28, 17-29, 11-29 02-28 on successive sweeps. LOOK AT THOSE CO numbers...all ranging from 28-30. ALWAYS a target you'd dig (and the rich tonal sound information just COMPLEMENTS the ID readout...it confirms and verifies for your ears what your eyes are seeing). The "skewing of the ID" is largely confined TO THE FE SIDE OF THE EQUATION! (On the E-Trac, it's the same, it's just that they normalize the FE number to "12," but the "stripping out" of "ground FE" to leave a more accurate "CO" number, is still the same...)

Anyway, I somehow think that it's not just "add a 2-D screen." I think it is somehow the VERY FBS PLATFORM that ALLOWS all the "skewing of target info/ID by ferrous soil" to be SEPARATED FROM the conductive read, SUCH THAT you can display two different numbers. You can't just take, I don't think, an F-70 and say "give me a 2-D screen." You CAN'T, I don't think...the information is NOT THERE in a single-freq. VLF unit to DO that, in the first place. Will this multi-frequency Equinox work that way, in other words, have that ability? I don't know, but I suspect not. I think it is MORE than just "multi-frequency," it's something specific to FBS that allows it. I don't know for sure. We shall see.

Thoughts, anyone? Does my "speculation based on what I have experienced and see on my screen, in different environments on different targets" match up with the technical, electronic, how-does-FBS-actually-work truth?

Steve



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2017 08:35PM by steveg.

Great post Steve (steveg)!!

Daniel Tn Wrote:
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> I just spoke with my normal Minelab dealer about t
> he time frame on when to expect it for purchase.
> He said from what he was hearing, Feb 2018 but tha
> t could change.

That's very generous of Minelab. They will give us time to sell all our other machines .

screenshots from Brandons facebook

I love the E-Trac for all of the reasons previously stated. It won't be going anywhere. I have an AT- Gold with small coil to go where the E-Trac can't (heavily infested iron and water environs). Looks like the AT is going and I'm going g to be a E-Trac and Equinox guy. The Equinox may not have it over the FBS units (although that remains to be seen) but I'm willing to bet it certainly has it all over the other single freq units...especially the ones that aren't waterproof. I'm also happy that Brandon Niece tested it, as he lives and does most of his detecting out here in the Western US. Many units that perform well in the East don't do so well here in the mineralised West.
The AT-Gold, for example, gets half the depth in AZ soil as say the examples I see on the Hoover Boys and Stealth Diggers ...but it separates well in the iron. I have only ever seen one other AT machine out in the field here in all the years I have detected yet they are very popular back East so I take notice when a machine is tested by a Western US tester and he likes it.

What machines have "2D" screens? What is the benefit...if any?

Dean

My friend is at Detectival he tried the Equinox on the test bed there this afternoon it failed to get 2 of the targets but said it air tested really well.

sanjuro Wrote:
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> My friend is at Detectival he tried the Equinox on
> the test bed there this afternoon it failed to get
> 2 of the targets but said it air tested really wel
> l.

Probably missed the wooden nickel and 3 foot half dime.
Future software updates will probably fix that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2017 09:16PM by Cabin Fever.

Russians - you can always count on them... While everyone was partying, they took the Equinox to a quiet place...

[www.youtube.com]

I don't understand much, but I think that one coin is made of iron.

P.s. What is this place? Why is there loud music in the background? Is this a disco event? How is someone supposed to test anything at a place like this.

bado1 Wrote:
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>
> What machines have "2D" screens? What is the benef
> it...if any?
>
> Dean

Bado, 2-D screen is just meaning two numbers -- FE and CO. You have a 2-D screen, on your E-Trac (you just didn't know it!! LOL!)

If you read my post prior to this one, I lay out what I feel is the "benefit" of 2-D -- but really, it's a benefit of FBS more than anything, I am thinking. Because I don't think you can really do 2-D (FE and CO numbers both) with a single-frequency VLF...I think it is the FBS platform that ALLOWS the FE and CO information to be separated into two numbers.

"I'm not into reading Leeeeeeeeeengthy posts right now 'cos they're all speculation!"

Maybe when the machine comes from a store in a box... then I'll read those lengthy posts!

In the meantime, we're learning nothing!"

Well this turned out to be a lot better release then I was expecting, it's actually got everything in a machine that I've been wanting. Selectable frequencies and the ability to run simultaneous tones at once is a big deal, only other machine out there now that can do this AFAIK is the White's V3i, but this also has the HF options and looks feather light, I like it. I hope it does not disappoint when it's released, I suspect the classifieds boards will be pretty busy for a while - lol

Will buy this with out a doubt but will keep the E Trac. Just a couple features that I just need for certain beach hunts. Being water proof to 3 meters is one and the weight is another. I will also spring for the FTP product when it comes out as long as its not heavy. Sounds like both could be what a beach hunter wants in certain conditions.

Des D Wrote:
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> "I'm not into reading Leeeeeeeeeengthy posts right
> now 'cos they're all speculation!"

Sorry, Des. My posts usually are on the lengthy side.

I'm just a dinosaur; I can't roll with the twitter generation. My brain doesn't work in "tweets."

Steve

My comparison of the Safari to the CTX was for one reason. Paying more for a detector does not mean more depth. People in their posts are saying that Minelab will not make a cheaper detector that out performs the CTX. I say BS.

The at pro vs the gti is a good example

Maybe I missed it but how will the multi frequency work? I mean is it preset or can we run 2 or 3 or all at the same time?

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

khouse Wrote:
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> Maybe I missed it but how will the multi frequency
> work? I mean is it preset or can we run 2 or 3 or
> all at the same time?

YES

ozzie Wrote:
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> Fisher out flanked again. I can picture the Fisher
> engineers throwing their hands up..... scrapping t
> heir latest design.....back to the drawing board f
> olks.
>
> Deja Vu.

My thoughts exactly -

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

khouse Wrote:
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> Maybe I missed it but how will the multi frequency
> work? I mean is it preset or can we run 2 or 3 or
> all at the same time?


You can chose between 5, 10, 15, 20, and 40 one at a time or chose multi freq. which has more than just those 5

FE and CO readouts.


possum mo Wrote:
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> For those of you who have the CTX, what does that
> detector have that the Equinox does not have?

GreenMeanie Wrote:
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> FE and CO readouts.
>
>
> possum mo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For those of you who have the CTX, what does tha
> t
> > detector have that the Equinox does not have?

GPS and target trace

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bado1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > What machines have "2D" screens? What is the ben
> ef
> > it...if any?
> >
> > Dean
>
> Bado, 2-D screen is just meaning two numbers -- FE
> and CO. You have a 2-D screen, on your E-Trac (yo
> u just didn't know it!! LOL!)
>
> If you read my post prior to this one, I lay out w
> hat I feel is the "benefit" of 2-D -- but really,
> it's a benefit of FBS more than anything, I am thi
> nking. Because I don't think you can really do 2-
> D (FE and CO numbers both) with a single-frequency
> VLF...I think it is the FBS platform that ALLOWS t
> he FE and CO information to be separated into two
> numbers.

Oh, got ya! Yes, I love the 2D screen as well! Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Dean

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bado1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > What machines have "2D" screens? What is the ben
> ef
> > it...if any?
> >
> > Dean
>
> Bado, 2-D screen is just meaning two numbers -- FE
> and CO. You have a 2-D screen, on your E-Trac (yo
> u just didn't know it!! LOL!)
>
> If you read my post prior to this one, I lay out w
> hat I feel is the "benefit" of 2-D -- but really,
> it's a benefit of FBS more than anything, I am thi
> nking. Because I don't think you can really do 2-
> D (FE and CO numbers both) with a single-frequency
> VLF...I think it is the FBS platform that ALLOWS t
> he FE and CO information to be separated into two
> numbers.

NASA-Tom might want to comment here.
Seems I remember him saying some thing about this involving F75 some time back.
For instance, ever notice the mineral strength meter on F75 when bigger iron is swept??
The meter usually moves.
What is being measured?
Now I think Minelab's patent is the reason why we don't see this (ferrous number) being measured numerically.
So if I remember correctly single freq Vlf can indeed measure ferrous.
I could be wrong.
Hopefully the host will comment.

There's probably a lot more people ready to let go of $800.00 for a very good detector than $2000+ detector that I can come in behind with a CZ5 and still make good finds . !! HH Tony

My understanding is it uses the same tech that ML sold to Whites...... thus a DFX. I believe some determined the Explores ran around freq 3 and i see the lowest is 5 for this machine..... which is designed for a smoother running machine but may lack a bit of depth. The DFX didnt like to GB on some of our beaches and went into a factory setting. It lost a couple of inches over the Explores on dry sand. BUT..... it really liked jewelry. So as a recent drop machine and the added freqs hitting some dry sand is a plus over multi freq machines. In the water........ it just has to be capable to replace the Xcal for me as a beach machine. BUT..... i dont see it as a better all around machine like the CTX.

Will it be better than, or the equivalent to the CTX/Excal/eTrac? It's all speculation and guessing right now. You can argue that it will. You can argue that it wont. Bottom line...it's all speculation and guessing at this point in time. I imagine in the coming week(s) the testers will be coming out with videos here and there to keep the fire kindled. I hope they do anyway. If that February date for availability is correct, nearly half a year is a long time to keep inpatient people like me interested. When I have money burning a hole in the wallet, I get very inpatient. lol Not to rush them but if they get the timing just right on it, they could have it out before Christmas and that would be on a LOT of people's Christmas list. But then again, February is tax return time too.