New Whites TDI model

For those who have an PI units, apparently Whites is coming out with a new TDI model, the TDI SL. Steve Herschbach has posted information here:

[www.akmining.com]

Now we need a low-powered 8uS TDI...... for the next Generation.

Tom,

The new TDI has the potential of detecting small gold just as if it had the delay set at 8 usec. The key is a simple internal mod.

Drop down on this link and watch the video and see the SL detect a 1 grain nugget.

[www.findmall.com]

Now, I believe that digger bob's detector has that mod and that is why his unit will detect a one grain nugget.


Reg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2011 05:44AM by Reg.

Reg,

What timing...... I was intending on sending you a PM yesterday....(I believe it's been over a year). Yes, very interesting mod to the TDI (now a SL version available). Interesting (typical characteristic) that the unit will detect a nickel to only about 12"; yet, detect a 1-grain nugget to about a inch (of which most PI's will not do this). Yes, this is also characteristic of 8uS pulse delay. Larger deeper targets detection is reduced somewhat, whilst tiny target detection is enhanced. I would be very interested on how the unit would perform on "jewelry gold" (vs. natural gold)....... as.... the alloys in jewelry gold severely alter it's detection abilities.......... especially white gold.......(and in a wet salt environ). Reg, THERE'S HOPE YET!

" I would be very interested on how the unit would perform on "jewelry gold" (vs. natural gold)....... as.... the alloys in jewelry gold severely alter it's detection abilities.......... especially white gold.......(and in a wet salt environ). Reg, THERE'S HOPE YET!"

just what i needed!! i will be purchasing a pulse in the near future and i would like to see this tested on small and micro "jewelry gold"......please?

There's a tremendous amount of 'potential' on the Whites TDI platform. I'm not certain if the Whites engineers are 'fully aware' of this. A couple more of additional Rev's/Generations ........ and this unit could 'sweep' the market.

Hi Tom,

The mod that allows the SL to detect small gold such as the 1 grain nugget is something I came up with and was initially added to the SL. Actually, it was added to my SL prototype initially and I was really surprised how well it performed so I passed the info on to Whites. They were also impressed and added it to digger bob's unit, I believe.

Unfortunately, there were a bunch of what I call whiners who complained about the improvements that showed up on the SL because they believe they should have been on the TDI initially. Then they began criticizing the SL because of certain issues, mostly caused by failure to use properly.

So, now I don't believe the SL has the small gold mod any more and my guess, and this is a guess, it was decided against at least partially because of those people and their whining.

Will that mod show up in the future on the TDI??? I am sure it will. A pc board change is required so it won't happen over night but I do expect to become available in the future.

Now, initially I considered making the small gold mod instructions available to all TDI owners because it is something that could be installed reasonably easy, but after being called a bunch of names and some truly derogatory posts, I have decide against that. Personally, I will do my best to see that those certain people never see it available as a mod. I am considering making the mod available through Mr. Bill if he is interested and if he will agree to not make it available to those certain few people.

In the mean time, the SL is still the quietest production model PI that I have ever used. BTW, for those interested, the noise reduction mod is evolved from another idea I submitted last year and was installed on my PI a year before the SL or any other unit had it.

I wouldn't listen to me though because some legend in his own mind thinks I am just an old arm chair blowhard. So, people should listen to him because he has actually used the TDI. DUH. Now that is funny because I used and even came up with the idea of the single tone feature now found on the TDI and used it actively in finding a bunch of silver with it. As the result of finding a large gold ring, the feature was added to the TDI. Check the Find's PI technology forum going back to 2008 before the TDI was actually first introduced to see the ring and some of the coins I initially found from my arm chair use. I added the single tone feature to the GS 5 which is the detector the TDI was patterned after when it first came out.

So, you better listen to him and his buddies because they all there is to know about the TDI and forget what I say.

Reg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2011 11:14PM by Reg.

Sorry to hear some people are causing some stir toward's you....


Glad to see white's is moving along with the TDI....

I believe with the ability to run in the all mode now without the noise of the earlier TDI's it will make it alot better on I.D.ing iron.. by the tonal change...

I know on my TDI the all mode really helped on iron but just to dang warbley ( Is that a word?)

I cant believe the SL is running so dang smooth.....Kudo's for you Reg!!!!Heck of an enhancement....

What is the reason for the higher power consumption on the AA's....I notice the Infinium runs on 8 AA's and seems to have better run time....

is the TDI SL just pushing more transmit power....

I know my infinium did not seem as deep as the TDI on certain conductor's...especially like the .58 caliber bullet's...but the infinium had pretty decent actually great depth in red clay dirt on civil war eagle button's....Seems the infinium favor's lower conductor's over higher....

Thought the TDI seemed to like higher over lower to some extent ...but it might be the way I ran them....

One thing I know the infinium with the iron check switch would tell you if it was a low conductor pretty dang easy but high conductor's was iffy....

Any how....Glad to see work evolving on the TDI platform......Do you see in the future some sort of easier iron I.D. system...don't care about full disc just iron I.D. especially the small iron....I know by principal's of design it seems impossible to get an I.D. system to work on a pulse unit...But even something as useful as just having a check switch to say re-manipulate all setting's momentarily would be better than nothing....You know readjusting the g.b. and pulse delay setting's while in the all conductive mode to at least swap tones or something....I believe this is what the infinium does to some extent ???.....might loose the deeper item's or loose certain conductive object's but in my area stuff is not that deep just masked by ground...they are usually loud and clear item's that vlf's are just calling iron at 8 inches....


Keith

Reg,

For as much as you know about the TDI, I would almost bet you COULD find coins and jewelry from an arm chair with it !! Thanks for all the info you have provided over the years. I learned a lot from your posts and suggestions. Unfortunately I got rid of my first generation TDI because most (about 90%) of my hunting is on salt water beaches. I have used the TDI there and it worked flawlessly, but I was just too afraid of the salt air and water effects that may cause havoc on the unit at some point, that I ended up selling it. Plus, I would have hated to see my face if that TDI got swamped by a wave !

Using your info and the smaller 7 inch coil, I had several successful land hunts with it as well.

All I wish for, is a water proof version of one some day to hunt the beaches with. There are some nice water proof PI's on the market, but a water proof TDI with the current features it has, would trump them all. It's probably not feasible for Whites to make one though, since their Dual Field PI works very well for that application. Still, not only would it be a killer salt water beach unit, but a killer fresh water unit too since you can set it up to knock out certain ranges of iron.

Hi Guys,

I suspect you will see a water version before it is over. I foresee lots of other little changes and maybe a few larger ones as part of the TDI future also. Unfortunately, all of this takes time and the TDI isn't the only detector being made at Whites, so it has to wait in line like all the others.

The SL version lets you know that the PC board for that model is considerably smaller than the original one. So, it will be easier to make the move to a waterproof housing much easier now.

Believe it or not, the SL is still or should be considered a high powered PI. That is why the AA batteries don't last very long. Because of this, the depth loss is really not that much when compared to the regular TDI. Now, with that said, I have a few ideas I need to test out that may allow the SL to operate longer on the same batteries without any loss of depth at all.

So, I can see a great future for the TDI regardless of the version.

Keith, don't worry about me, I am having fun now. I used to try to be diplomatic when dealing with asses but decided to toss that by the wayside and give them a dose of their own crap instead. I guess that comes with becoming a grumpy old man. The hard part of this old grumpy thing is dragging my arm chair to the mountains about every other week to nugget hunt. Unfortunately, I don't get the local park as much because of personal issues but I do have that armchair tied to the back of my vehicle at least once a week when I am not in the mountains. Fortunately, the temperature is dropping down so I will be able to hit the parks more often. Maybe I will motorize my armchair so it is easier to get there.

You know, iron ID of some sort does seem like a good idea. So, guess I should finish up the one I was working on before losing so many family members. I may have to get a bigger arm chair but that is ok. I will say that losing a brother, a dad and a significant other in just over a year does take a lot out of a person, especially since I am not a kid any more.

Back to the new TDI version, lets hope that people are happy with the fundamentals such as the super quiet threshold. Personally, I would like to see the ability to switch from the normal noisy threshold to the super quiet or back when desired. Also, I hope to see the ability to switch in or out the small gold feature and maybe even make it more radical with a third choice. Doing this has some real advantages for both nugget and relic hunters. How do I know this? Simple, that old armchair design work has been at it again. Better yet, this new idea adds some decent depth capability to certain nuggets that normally are not detected as deep as one would expect.

So, there are still lots of ideas to be tried, one of which is a decent iron ID feature and another is to use a different technique to reduce the noisy threshold by other means. This would allow for an increase in depth of detection without having to add more power. Yes, it is possible.

Reg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2011 02:30AM by Reg.

Reg,

I'm disappointed that you've been 'burned' by a few whiners. I would NEVER want to see a conceptual leading-edge technological advancement.... be shunted by a few 'emotional mouths'..... and 'steer' your direction. What a set-back.

If the platform/advancement is well-founded....... has major attributes (and most-probably some 'negatives' that can be learned or mitigated)..... it is something that needs to be pressed forward. This presents the full .... legitimate justification as to the criticality of "EDUCATION". Giving the race-car keys to a average-bear.......... and having him return with the complaint: "The rear wheels spin too easily"..... is NOT justification to shut down the project. If folks can be educated on the correct application AND usage of the concept..... this is a good start. Also equally as important is ..... if the folks understand that "without" the education..... the unit serves no purpose. This should cover all bases.

I am............ all about .................... and all for............... betterment of humankind ... to include; technological advancement(s). If you feel your product has merit....... and you can convince my "in the blood" ..... and I...truly... from my heart..... can 'buy-in' to the product......... you can rest assured that there would be no 'failure' option. "ALL" would be kept above-board. . . . . and posted on this www public forum. Just holler....... and (time permitting)..... I can help.

Hi Tom,

White's is moving forward just fine and I have no doubt most people will be very pleased. It is me and only me that is fed up with the clowns. Your analogy of the race car and the wheels spin to easily fits perfectly. My way of stating things is for every action there is a reaction and people need to realize that. Nothing is perfect and never will be.

As for the SL, this detector has a very simple fundamental design that establishes a super quiet threshold. If you watch the SL video, this is very obvious when compared to typical PI's. What doesn't show in the video is just how effective the ability to smooth the threshold really is. As an example, I tested my prototype directly under some high voltage lines and was stunned just how quiet the detector remained. These particular lines were feeding a mine somewhere and not the typical power lines we see in the city. My guess is they were probably 34KV or more. Instead of having to deal with a lot of hash, the threshold was super smooth, just like the power lines weren't there.

Now, in the SL video, one can watch digger bob sweep slowly and smoothly in the worst of ground and not experience any adverse conditions. Change the sweep speed like you are using one of the older 4 filter detectors and then don't get the ground balance perfect, and the combination can give you intermittent false signals, something like happens on the older 4 detectors before the days of a ground balance offset. Shift the ground balance ( GB ) closer to perfection and the problem is reduced. Slow the sweep speed down also and the problem disappears.

The condition is the noise reduction circuitry works too well and sort of hides certain things. However, if the errors are great enough, they will come through at least intermittently. This condition is enhanced by a fast sweep speed.

Actually, one can minimize problems much like happens when a person uses the single tone mode and has the GB offset sufficient to eliminate nails. If selected to the high conductor mode on the TDI or the Pro, the ground offset is obvious in the all mode, but basically invisible in the single tone mode. Switch to the low conductor mode and the ground offset is more noticeable.

Now, on the SL, the same thing happens but the signals change a little and some of the time, the noise reduction minimizes the condition but at other times, the GB offset is pronounced. Same cause but slightly different effects. Slow down the sweep speed and the GB error signal is minimized. Set the GB closer to perfect and any error signal is further reduced. Simple solutions to simple conditions.

For those of you who have been around metal detecting as long as I have know strange things can happen. I remember when the Teknetics Mark 1 first came out and I tried it for the first time. What a shock I experienced when another new owner found an bunch of old coins and I found zilch. Why? Well, he was new to detecting and didn't have my habits that I was trying when I used the Mark 1. When using the old 4 filter detectors one needs to sweep 50mph but with the Mark 1 I was in a 10mph zone. The mineralization was really bad and my poor sweep speed habits simply didn't fit the Mark 1 design. The results, machine 1, me zero.

Wiping the egg off my face and watching the other guy search, I realized his slow technique worked and my 4 filter sweep speed didn't. Once I slowed down and used the detector the way it was required in bad ground, I suddenly found more than my share of good targets.

The point of my trip back in history is to simply point out that regardless of what we may want to do, the detector is far more stubborn and will win every time. Use it the way that is required and suddenly the same detector can be tamed and one will have much better results. Those new owners that try their best to train the detector to work the way they want rather than try to learn what the detector wants will find that in the long run, it will be easier to teach a brick to float than to have a detector change the way it works.

Now, because today we are in the age of technology and faster communications and we have a world full of "experts" because they have owned a particular detector for a couple of weeks. Such people will have everything down pat in a matter of days. Dumb people like me will realize there is no end to the learning cycle or techniques required.

A perfect example is the original TDI and what happens with very small gold. After a lot of practice and experimentation I found the detector did a whole lot better if I simply slowed down. Coin size objects didn't require this but small gold did. When I showed this condition to a new TDI owner he was shocked to see how easily it was to lose depth simply by trying to use his VLF sweep techniques on the TDI.

The SL and the noise reduction design works such that it tries to compensate for ground balance offset and as a result will not provide the exact same audio as the other TDI versions. So, the result is different responses to the same conditions.

The bottom line is the SL is different and needs to be treated that way. One shouldn't expect a super quiet threshold without other differences. In simple terms don't expect the SL to have that super quiet threshold and act exactly like their original TDI in all other aspects. The people that say my TDI didn't act this way should realize they are not using their TDI but are using a different detector.

This is like a farmer that has only driven a tractor all his life getting mad because his new car doesn't pull the plow like his tractor does. Now, if you are a farmer, don't take my way of putting things personal. I could have also referred to that the weekend homeowner and how he gets mad because his new jogging shoe didn't work as well as his dress shoe when using it as a hammer.

Once again, the point is, every detector is different so don't expect it to act like another model or brand. Instead, let it train you as to what works best. People have to use this idea when changing from the TDI to the SL. They are simply not the same.

Reg

Impartiality is paramount. For example; I have several CZ's. Even though they are all 'CZs'..... each one responds differently..... even when config'd the same. Find the 'niche' of each unit.... even if they are exactly the same model/brand...... at utilize it's attributes to maximize your advantage(s).

Yes..... I did watch the SL video and was quite impressed.

Understand. Whites is doing just fine and does not need my help. Yes.... understand...... Sometimes we let others 'emotionalize' us! Reg...... THEIR emotions; should not constitute OUR direction!