So what will Fisher announce tomorrow?

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All it was is the new pinpointer is included with
> the new f75+ and t2+.
>
> So F75/T2 LTD in gold/green, extra 2 year refurb w
> arranty transfer/extension, no 5" coil, digger, f
> -pulse/tek-point. $649/$549 MAP
>
> available 2 weeks


Really, seriously?

Won't be too much longer if the fisher prices keep dropping, they all can be Bogo detectors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 02:51PM by Sod-buster.

A marketing promotion?

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All it was is the new pinpointer is included with
> the new f75+ and t2+.
>
> So F75/T2 LTD in gold/green, extra 2 year refurb w
> arranty transfer/extension, no 5" coil, digger, f
> -pulse/tek-point. $649/$549 MAP
>
> available 2 weeks


That's it????? Boy, I'm REALLY glad I bought that 2nd F-19 now!

A year or so ago - the MAP prices for the F75 with boost and the T2 with boost were $1099 and $899 respectively. Included in the package was and extra 5” coil.

Now the same detectors in their new “+” package are $699 and $549 - and instead of the small coil, you get:

A transferrable 2 year segment of the 5 year warranty
A free factory overhaul once in the 5 years
A digging tool
One of the brand new and apparently excellent FT pinpointers

Is it disappointing that they’re not announcing new technology top of the line machines - of course.

Is it some kind of insult to us enthusiasts - of course not.

I have never had a T2 and plan to get one - it’s effectively a T2 with DST and Boost and a greatly improved warranty/service package for $420 (the PP is $129 by itself).

How can they do this? I suspect that a clue lies in the fact that they announced a while back that next month they are moving into a brand new purpose-built 100,000 square foot (9,300 square meters) facility in El Paso - just down the road from their present site. They have state-of-the art production and distribution facilities in-house. They are clearly planning to keep designing, building and selling a wide range of metal detectors in every corner of the globe. In order to keep doing that they clearly need new state of the art products to keep up with competitors offerings. They also need to present the best value for money at every level on the marketplace - this is an ongoing marketing effort involving every aspect of the product and its “place” in the marketplace. Re packaging, even re-branding (like the AmeriTek line) and above all dynamic adjustment of pricing and the “value package” are vital.

Here’s my take on things as they stand at the end of 2017 in “Detector Land”

Detector companies make vastly more low and medium range machines than top of the line ones. The steady sales of these machines through many levels of retail distribution around the world are what pay the bills, keep the lights on and fund new product development.

With the “brave new world” of agressively priced high performance detectors from the likes of Nokta/Makro and now (of all people) Minelab, no detector can command $1000+ prices without totally new capabilities. This kind of savvy marketing is what all the sector makers will need in order to still be around in the coming decade.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 03:31PM by lytle78.

Mine lab was thinking uh oh, we might be pricing ourselves out of the market.

So they have it seems devised a way to describe/market the Equinox and slide it in to their line up, hoping not to destroy Etrac and CTX sales.

Question is will/did it work?

Eventually I feel the cat will come out of the bag when they they release something to obsolete etrac and or CTX.

A bridge they will cross when they come to it.

Btw, these lower prices on like the f75 and T2 series detectors, seems folks were paying at least $350 too much for these.
First Texas was making loads on these it seems.

Just imagine for one moment, what an auto would cost if all we had to choose from in the USA during the last 30 years were autos for the big three??

We could likely say the same about if the detector market was more or less made up of Fisher, Garret, White's.

Imagine if Minelab when they rolled into USA market, wonder if the explorer series and following models would have been substantially cheaper than USA flag ship models?

It didn't happen, but could have.

USA detector manufacturers should still be prayin it didn't happen.

But then there is now the unreleased Equinox.

Does Minelab smell blood in the waters, realizing their earlier mistakes?

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A year or so ago - the MAP prices for the F75 wit
> h boost and the T2 with boost were $1099 and $899
> respectively. Included in the package was and ext
> ra 5” coil.
>
> Now the same detectors in their new “+” package ar
> e $699 and $549 - and instead of the small coil, y
> ou get:
>
> A transferrable 2 year segment of the 5 year warra
> nty
> A free factory overhaul once in the 5 years
> A digging tool
> One of the brand new and apparently excellent FT p
> inpointers
>
> Is it disappointing that they’re not announcing ne
> w technology top of the line machines - of course.
>
> Is it some kind of insult to us enthusiasts - of c
> ourse not.
>
> I have never had a T2 and plan to get one - it’s e
> ffectively a T2 with DST and Boost and a greatly i
> mproved warranty/service package for $420 (the PP
> is $129 by itself).
>
> How can they do this? I suspect that a clue lies
> in the fact that they announced a while back that
> next month they are moving into a brand new purpos
> e-built 100,000 square foot (9,300 square meters)
> facility in El Paso - just down the road from thei
> r present site. They have state-of-the art produc
> tion and distribution facilities in-house. They ar
> e clearly planning to keep designing, building and
> selling a wide range of metal detectors in every c
> orner of the globe. In order to keep doing that t
> hey clearly need new state of the art products to
> keep up with competitors offerings. They also nee
> d to present the best value for money at every lev
> el on the marketplace - this is an ongoing marketi
> ng effort involving every aspect of the product an
> d its “place” in the marketplace. Re packaging, ev
> en re-branding (like the AmeriTek line) and above
> all dynamic adjustment of pricing and the “value p
> ackage” are vital.
>
> Here’s my take on things as they stand at the end
> of 2017 in “Detector Land”
>
> Detector companies make vastly more low and medium
> range machines than top of the line ones. The ste
> ady sales of these machines through many levels of
> retail distribution around the world are what pay
> the bills, keep the lights on and fund new product
> development.
>
> With the “brave new world” of agressively priced h
> igh performance detectors from the likes of Nokta/
> Makro and now (of all people) Minelab, no detector
> can command $1000+ prices without totally new capa
> bilities. This kind of savvy marketing is what al
> l the sector makers will need in order to still be
> around in the coming decade.


Rick------FT oughta hire you as their P.R. man!------and---your "take on things" may well be "right on the button"!-----------Del

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More cheap plastic Bounty Hunter junk...

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Looks like FT serving up reheated leftovers. Microwave it, dump on some hot gravy..... come and get it boys. Cough.

I always like the turkey and dressing better the next day. The key is to start out with a fresh non-factory turkey, spatchcock it (take out the backbone and flatten it) - make cornbread dressing (I like Julia Child’s recipe) in a wide pan and bake it till the top is toasty, then finish roasting the turkey on top of the pan of dressing. Giblet gravy made with the “liquor” from soaking the dehydrated Arizona White Mountian Boletus Barrowsii mushrooms I picked this August, homemade mashed potatoes put through a ricer (mashing is so ugly - stiff potatoes with lumps) and not stirred more than necessary - to add a bit of evaporated milk (my grandma taught me that).

The next day you have lovely leftover turkey - even better tasting cornbread dressing, lots of the wonderful gravy - perhaps freshened with a bit of dry sherry - and even more wonderful if you add some fresh peach cobbler as the dessert.

Sometimes a “second helping” of something really good - turns out to be the best meal of all!

Metaphor for - F75, T2 (excellent turkey and dressing) - new stunningly low price (a refreshed gravy) add wonderful fresh dessert (the First Texas new pinpointers) - delicious!

I expect lots of folks will find the table set with this feast to be irresistible.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 06:57PM by lytle78.

I will buy one to have around..

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A year or so ago - the MAP prices for the F75 wit
> h boost and the T2 with boost were $1099 and $899
> respectively. Included in the package was and ext
> ra 5” coil.
>
> Now the same detectors in their new “+” package ar
> e $699 and $549 - and instead of the small coil, y
> ou get:
>
> A transferrable 2 year segment of the 5 year warra
> nty
> A free factory overhaul once in the 5 years
> A digging tool
> One of the brand new and apparently excellent FT p
> inpointers
>
> Is it disappointing that they’re not announcing ne
> w technology top of the line machines - of course.
>
> Is it some kind of insult to us enthusiasts - of c
> ourse not.
>
> I have never had a T2 and plan to get one - it’s e
> ffectively a T2 with DST and Boost and a greatly i
> mproved warranty/service package for $420 (the PP
> is $129 by itself).
>
> How can they do this? I suspect that a clue lies
> in the fact that they announced a while back that
> next month they are moving into a brand new purpos
> e-built 100,000 square foot (9,300 square meters)
> facility in El Paso - just down the road from thei
> r present site. They have state-of-the art produc
> tion and distribution facilities in-house. They ar
> e clearly planning to keep designing, building and
> selling a wide range of metal detectors in every c
> orner of the globe. In order to keep doing that t
> hey clearly need new state of the art products to
> keep up with competitors offerings. They also nee
> d to present the best value for money at every lev
> el on the marketplace - this is an ongoing marketi
> ng effort involving every aspect of the product an
> d its “place” in the marketplace. Re packaging, ev
> en re-branding (like the AmeriTek line) and above
> all dynamic adjustment of pricing and the “value p
> ackage” are vital.
>
> Here’s my take on things as they stand at the end
> of 2017 in “Detector Land”
>
> Detector companies make vastly more low and medium
> range machines than top of the line ones. The ste
> ady sales of these machines through many levels of
> retail distribution around the world are what pay
> the bills, keep the lights on and fund new product
> development.
>
> With the “brave new world” of agressively priced h
> igh performance detectors from the likes of Nokta/
> Makro and now (of all people) Minelab, no detector
> can command $1000+ prices without totally new capa
> bilities. This kind of savvy marketing is what al
> l the sector makers will need in order to still be
> around in the coming decade.


very good analysis! I think that sums it up...looking forward to what a $1000+ machine will actually look like in this 'new era'

tabman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jim tn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What ever it is, if anything, it won't be enough
> t
> > o satisfy everyone. I, for one, have had a good
> te
> > n year + run old coin hunting with a F 75 ( 3 of
> t
> > hem over this time span) and I still consider it
> a
> > mong one of the best detectors going today. Anyw
> ay
> > , everyone have a great turkey day, stay safe an
> d
> > hope you aren't to disappointed. HH jim tn
>
> The F75 works for me as well. Last year using the
> F75 for the majority of the 101 hunts that I went
> on, I found over 250 silver coins plus a lot of ot
> her good stuff.
>
> tabman

The F75 is a fine machine, especially in the right types of environments (mild dirt, low to mild mineralization, iron, etc). I put thousands of hours on my F75, and found it made lots of great finds, but it also struggled at a lot of sites that friends with different machines (Minelabs for example) had no problems with. For some of my challenging sites/dirt, there are better machines, if you know the F75 well, it's simply not the perfect, end all machine. If it works well for you, awesome I don't have a horse in this race, I simply use what works best for the types of sites that I like to detect. I've hoped for years that FTP would bring out the next great machine, but for years we've only been hearing rumors that something is coming. I'm not getting any younger, got to use what works best for me now, unfortunately it's not the F75.

Of all the machines I've owned in the last decade, I always seem to find myself coming back to an F75 or T2 for the workhorse of my hunting. I'm really liking the T2 Special Edition with DST. They just plain work. For me, hunting in 3 or 4 bar dirt, there's no better VLF machines to use. Pulse Machines...yes...but VLF machines get crippled too much in it. I could do some relic hunting videos for you guys between the T2 and CTX 3030 that would make the CTX look really really bad.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of all the machines I've owned in the last decade,
> I always seem to find myself coming back to an F75
> or T2 for the workhorse of my hunting. I'm really
> liking the T2 Special Edition with DST. They just
> plain work. For me, hunting in 3 or 4 bar dirt, t
> here's no better VLF machines to use. Pulse Machi
> nes...yes...but VLF machines get crippled too much
> in it. I could do some relic hunting videos for y
> ou guys between the T2 and CTX 3030 that would mak
> e the CTX look really really bad.

I would love to see some of those videos

Daniel, You could also Make some Deep Coin hunting vids in Moderate ground showing CTX 3030 giving the T2, F75 a good old fashion Ass Whuppin'! Ha.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of all the machines I've owned in the last decade,
> I always seem to find myself coming back to an F75
> or T2 for the workhorse of my hunting. I'm really
> liking the T2 Special Edition with DST. They just
> plain work. For me, hunting in 3 or 4 bar dirt, t
> here's no better VLF machines to use. Pulse Machi
> nes...yes...but VLF machines get crippled too much
> in it. I could do some relic hunting videos for y
> ou guys between the T2 and CTX 3030 that would mak
> e the CTX look really really bad.


Yeah, and the same could be said in reverse---depends on the situation.

Harold -- That would only be the case IF the site was loaded with crown caps as trash. Otherwise, the only place(s) I will even consider using the CTX is at the saltwater beaches and in the water. It truly is a niche machine for me. A high dollar one at that...which is why I am hoping the Equinox will be close enough to it in saltwater that I can part ways with the CTX.

D&P -- Nope. I would strongly disagree with that. Have too many hours behind them and know what they are and are not capable of. The CTX has too many short comings for the relic hunting world. I tried every which way in the world to "make due" with it and it just can't hold its own.

Sanjuro -- Those videos would break the internet for sure. There are too many fanboys out there that would cry and throw temper tantrums about the whole thing. I went through it with the Tejon vs F75 videos a long time ago, and the TDI Pro vs TDI SL videos I done too. Even the mention of such a video would cause the fan boys to go into defensive mode right out of the gate. I have kinda already did some of it with the CTX down at my 4th corps camp sites, along with the Sovereign machine.

As an added bonus, I will send you guys on a scavenger hunt. I recently found out another hunter is from my area and has quite a large YouTube channel. His name is Birddogg on there...has some good videos and he hunts the same general area and sites that I do. Go look up some of his videos; he does a couple of videos with VLF comparisons and also out in the field with the T2 and AT Pro...he is not a fan of either of them in his soil but he is also trying to use them in disc mode which is a no no.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 09:55PM by Daniel Tn.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harold -- That would only be the case IF the site
> was loaded with crown caps as trash. Otherwise, t
> he only place(s) I will even consider using the CT
> X is at the saltwater beaches and in the water. I
> t truly is a niche machine for me. A high dollar
> one at that...which is why I am hoping the Equinox
> will be close enough to it in saltwater that I can
> part ways with the CTX.

"Daniel, that's an interesting statement. I've heard reports that CTX sales are 'static or low' as people wait for the EQX
How true or false that is I cannot say, and I repeat, [ it's purely second hand hearsay ] But, if the EQX turns out to be the answer to 'a large percentage' of people, it would appear the writing is on the wall for the $2000 model? A grinding halt or a slowdown to 10% of buyers who would still buy it for the 'bells n whistles', while the vast majority of sales would fall to the [ cheaper option that does almost everything that people want ] in a detector!"

Ole' Birddog! He is a Nautilus Guy if not mistaken?
He has 2- 3 Nautys I believe. He is a Good Ole' Boy for sure. And not a half bad guitar player either. Ha.

Harold -- He was a Nautilus user but isn't anymore. He used to live up above Knoxville area but now lives down in my area closer to Chattanooga. He now uses the AT Pro and ATX for most of his hunting. If he is on land in mineralized ground, he runs the ATX...if in the creeks, he does the AT Pro.

And no joke about the CTX used market. I have had mine listed for sale in a few places, as low as $1,300 with warranty remaining, and not even a nibble. Everybody is waiting to see what that Equinox is going to do. I have been watching some on eBay but have not had any success with eBay as of lately. I set my auctions up for US only sales and somehow, people from out of country are bidding on them just for spite and winning, and thus I cancel the transaction. It puts me in position of not selling my item but still getting charged the end selling fee for it. I filed a complaint thru eBay about it but they haven't got back with me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 10:15PM by Daniel Tn.

Revenue is more important than margin in a slowing market. Sell more detectors faster. $2000 slow sellers with high incidence of warranty issues are something which just drags the enterprise down. I suspect ML will be glad to see it dwindle.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Daniel --

I respectfully disagree with you, with respect to the T2/F75 platform as a coin-hunting unit. In moderate dirt, in "modern trash," I believe very strongly that FBS units are better choices for deep coin hunting. I have used both (F70 and FBS), and for me, there's no comparison. And it's not about being a "fanboy;" at least not for me. I am a Minelab fan because I've learned through my own experiences that FBS is what works best for my type of hunting, in my type of ground. In other words, Minelab has earned my business.

Steve

I realise all this is off-topic, and I shouldn't encourage it, but:
The CTX costs a lot more than a T2, so doing comparisons isn't entirely fair, unless you factor this in.

I have held many detectors through my years in this hobby. The deepest machine I ever held was an F75. In PA dirt it just killed on depth. I just couldn't tame the beast. Too much noise and everything sounded good. Now I will freely admit that it was me and not the detector. I ran it too hot and never gave it the time to sink in my puny brain. But I traded it away and never looked back. Every time this discussion comes up I think about trying one again. But then Makro or Minelab release something new and the F75 falls on the list. I know back then I put out more cash then they are now. These prices are tempting. I will also say this. Out of every detector I ever used it was also the best Ergo design and weight distribution I ever had the pleasure of swinging. I liked it better than the Deus in that regard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2017 12:26AM by goodmore.

Pimento -- That's what would be so embarrassing to some...a $400 T2 curb stomping the $1900 CTX (street price) on relics. On my old YouTube channel I think I had a couple videos of the CTX relic hunting but had a lot more footage that I never posted when I was doing comparisons. The end result was simply...you can't dig what you can't hear and I quit taking the CTX with me on relic hunts. I know for sure I had one on there when I was marking bullets with the TDI and trying to see what I could do to get the CTX to respond to what I knew was there....real world targets and not planted or test garden targets. A Civil War minie will read in the zinc penny range on most detectors...the CTX included, when out of the ground. Put it in mineralized ground, and all bets are off. Edit...went back and found that video for those that might be interested in watching it: [www.youtube.com]
Some of the older videos feature the F75 there at that same location, so you can get an idea how it responds.

Now that I have a better camera and internet to be able to upload videos without taking all day, I could probably start doing some more if there is interest. You guys already have me wanting to do a T2 SE vs CTX video for sure.

Each detector has strengths and weaknesses. The key is to be able to figure out what is what, and use the strengths to your hunting. None of them are perfect. That's why I own at least 2. You can ask "what detector is best" and debate this til the cows come home. In fact there was just a HUGE argument/fight about this last night on one of the Facebook groups I go to, about the Deus vs AT series detectors. That one went on for hours til the mods deleted it. I didn't even step into that one. According to some, the Deus is the best and deepest seeking detector to ever be invented. Others were saying the AT Pro was the best, hands down. One guy even said that everybody else was wrong, that the Fisher 1266 was still king. All I can tell you is what I know, and that is the Fishers/Teknetics machines have put more relics in my display cases than any of the others I've used combined.

I will say this in regards to coin hunting. I am not into it like some of you guys are. All of my seated coins, large coppers, etc have came from relic hunting and not from actively pursuing coin sites. I do from time to time, venture to an old home site or such of a place in hopes of finding some silver. What I have found though, is similar to me relic hunting....in that you have to throw that target ID out of the window if you want to dig the goodies here NO MATTER WHAT MACHINE YOU ARE RUNNING. I found this out at an old home site near my house. I found what I thought was a reasonable amount of merc, rosies, and wheat cents out of the yards there. And a few Washington quarters that were silver. I had been hunting it with the eTrac and small coils, due to the amount of trash in the yards. When I got the CTX, I took it over there and hunted it with the stock coil and 6 inch coil. I thought I had it worked over pretty good for high conductor coins....like many of us do, as my last few visits had not produced a single coin or high conductor signal. The eye opener for me was when I went back to try and find some nickels. I came in with a new attitude and was digging signals much lower on the scale. I never got a single signal that alerted me to the possibility of digging a high conductor coin. All my signals that I focused on were mid conductor signals....nickel and tab range. I dug some nickels and a whole pile of trash but what opened my eyes was...I dug more silver coins and wheat cents that DID NOT give a high conductor signal, than what I had previously dug with both the eTrac and CTX while "cherry picking" those high conductor signals. Many of these were co located with trash or iron, or just deeper signals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2017 01:22AM by Daniel Tn.

Dst came about for F75 for a reason.
I think most folks know the reason why.

Coins can exist, relics too in some spots not so emi friendly.
Coin can exist, relics too in some spots with higher mineralized soil.

Both instances above FBS rule the roost.

Now introduce some iron, advantage suffers somewhat.

I used F75 in my proving grounds site. Found very little actually.
But using some other models I have found loads of nonferrous.

I cannot run a pinball sounding detector and expect to do well.
Maybe some here can.

No doubt and I experienced this with both non DST as well as DST model F75, great depth if conditions are primo.

But in my neck of the woods, these primo conditions are few and far between.

To add here.
Quietest detectors I have run, and running more towards the hot side.
Deus with elliptical HF coil.
Etrac with any coil really.
CTX with stock and 6" coil.
Rutus alter 71 with dd coil and concentric coil.
Deeptech warrior with stock and smaller coil.
F75 DST model with stock and small coil.

Out of the above here is my ranking for quietness on average when going from site to site.
CTX
Etrac
Deus with elliptical HF coil
Deeptech warrior
Rutus alter71
F75 DST unit

This is a nice deal from Fisher/Tek. Nothing really new for us though. My F75 remains my favorite machine to use. Its comfortable and fun. I do hope they can come out with a version with better mineral see through one day. Right now Im looking forward to some real world tests among Equinox owners.

I've no interest in FT leftovers, but Rick Kempf's sure sound good...