Deus HF coils - they deserve respect,Relic hunters gotta try gold field program

I had a gent respond to me over on the detector prospect forum.
He lives in England and got to telling me how dissapointed he was in the ellliptical HF coil performance in polluted sites with wet ground using the more traditional programs.
He said he had been doing well with gold field program.

Well today I tried the gold field program in my detector testing site.
Ran mostly the elliptical HF coil, but did run the round HF coil using gold field program a little bit.

Using gold field program is definitely an added weapon with Deus and HF coils -both of them.

I don't think I Have seen a comparison video here of the round 9" LF coil vs the 9" round HF coil.
Well anyway, I've got news for folks here, the HF round coil will it seems based on my testing best or tie the using 14.4khz vs running the 9"LF coil at 18khz.
Flip the freq to 28.8 kHz on HF coil and some things get even better.

Also of note here.
Gold field program comparing the 9"LF coil and the round 9" HF coil.
Again using 14.4khz seems to kick the 9" LF coils booty when using highest frequency. Separation and unmasking.

I don't know what XP did to the round HF coil, but believe me, they didn't just add higher freq bands and call it a day.

Thought I would share.
Gold field good for polluted sites, open field relic hunting. Both HF coils.

Strange thing happened today too.
Elliptical coil in gold field program giving tone,,Imauspected iron by the signature /behavior. Flipped to hot program, no signal,period. Spent a lot of time over this target. Even 0 disc full tones no signal. Reactivty settings the same between the hot and gold field program. Only way I could get a signal in hot program was dialing disc down to -4.2.. Tone pretty good here but adjusting disc down just a tad more -4.5 tone better. Turned out to be a sizeavle piece of iron. Will post a pic. Quarter in pic for scale. f

Running gold field program targets don't have to be so flushed sweep wise to locate.
A user can check targets using more typical program after locating suspect.
Beware doing though,,today when I checked a couple no way in high heavens would I have dug.
And both targets tuned out to be nonferrous. Button and piece of lead,,pretty big too.

Forgot to say, using elliptical a HF coil down the barrel testing using nail and higher conductive coin, coin can be slid in more from nail's end and give signal using gold field program compared to other programs.
IAR setting maxed for hunting today and for the test I conducted after getting back.
Cheers and happy trails.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2018 01:27AM by Sod-buster.

Not very easy to decipher - I tried twice.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Some nonferrous will be located using gold field program that will be tonally indecipherable using other more conventional programs and settings. And some nonferrous targets will yield overall more fuller, more intelligent signals vs using other more traditions programs with ideal huntable settings.

Some nonferrous targets will be detected by both gold field and some other programs with more ideal settings.

Would I consider using gold field program as my first choice in a site I have never detected before ? No

But for sites that have seen detecting action previously, definitely !!!

And me saying the above is based on just 3 hours of using gold field program in one previously hard hunted site. And yes I did do comparisons while over suspect targets.
So Deus vs Deus here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2018 04:33PM by Sod-buster.

Excellent summary - thanks!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Little illustration here to show gold field, what it might do for a user of Deus with elliptical HF coil.

Take a look at pic below, square nail with clad dime (high conductor).



Down the barrel sweep.

So using the hot program, using disc with different Reactivty using 14.4khz- good luck finding this dime sweeping down the barrel, no signal at all I can here to tell me to investigate
Switch to 28.8khz use Reactivty 3 and 4 - good luck too,,a user on their best day might find the dime sweeping down the barrel of nail, a very , very light glint of tone, I rate here as -- I know the dime exist as far as what I hear,, little to no coil height variation available here either,,,to hear the best possible although shoddy very coil,height and sweep speed critical.

Gold field,program Reactivty 2.5 and 3 sweeping down the barrel IAR setting to 5,, user will hear tone to investigate,,,sweep speed forgiving too, coil height variation good too to hear this dime. Reactivity 3 more forgiving sweep vs 2.5 setting.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 03:22PM by Sod-buster.

Another pic here same 2 things used. Notice dime has been moved more inside nail.

Here no huntable settings I can find using 14.4kh and 28.8 kHz (didn't try 74khz), using disc mode to give me signal down the barrel that dime exist.

Gold field IAR 5 Reactivty 2.5 and 3 using 28.8 kHz does give signal with level 3 giving more sweep speed allowance and level 2.5 giving me more coil height allowance.



Btw remove dime and sweep with IAR at 5 no tone provided on nail.

One more peek here.

h

Half dime and nail.
Again no settings huntable using disc mode freqs 14.4khz and 28.8khz to give me anything tonally half dime is there down the barrel sweep.
Gold field does using 28.8 kHz Reactivty levels 2.5 and 3,,, didn't try any other Reactivty settings.

Again remove coin no tone using gold field IAR 5 setting sweeping down the barrel.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 04:05PM by Sod-buster.

I lied one more pic here.

How do the 9" LF coil using gold field compare to the 9" HF coil.
One test to show.

This pic a nail and clad dime.



Down the nail barrel sweep.
HF round 9" coil using 14.4khz here outperforms the LF 9" coil while running 18khz.
Switch HF coil to 28.8khz signal gets even better.

In this test signal rating using 3 Reactivty for both coils.
LF coil in 18khz a shade above shoddy.
HF coil in 14.4khz decent.
HF coil in 28.8 kHz good.

The thing about using Gold Field.
We as detectorist need something to get us to stop, investigate.

And usually this investigating includes turning on a suspect target.
In the examples I used above, when a person does turn they will get even better signal and yes a use can examine these targets when turned using disc mode and appropriate settings and indeed get a better signal saying dig me.

Using Gold Field for 6 hours in the same site actually proved interesting and useful to me.

Some smaller items I found (nonferrous) using gold field, more coil height noted on these and fuller, longer signals vs more traditional programs with peak settings.

Everyone always seems to do these tests by laying the coin next to a piece of iron which doesn't really simulate in-ground conditions.

In the ground, the coin is more often than not, below the iron.

Try putting a 1" board over the coin. Mark the exact location of the coin on top of the board. Then lay the nail(s) on top of the board. You will see how it changes everything and better simulates a real world situation.

A good way to mark the location of the coin, is to drill a hole in the board and tape the coin over the hole. Try it.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 02:56PM by Badger in NH.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone always seems to do these tests by laying
> the coin next to a piece of iron which doesn't rea
> lly simulate in-ground conditions.
>
> In the ground, the coin is more often than not, be
> low the iron.
>
> Try putting a 1" board over the coin. Mark the exa
> ct location of the coin on top of the board. Then
> lay the nail(s) on top of the board. You will see
> how it changes everything and better simulates a r
> eal world situation.
>
> .


You are correct here.
3D scenarios do change the detecting equation.
But, odds are if a detector/coil/settings setup won't detect in a 2D scenario, you can hang it up for the 3D scenario. So like passing go here for passage of 2D detection.
Should add here, 2 of my best finds from 2017 came from a mere 4" deep. I had evidently been walking on top of these finds for around 6 years on and off, mostly on..
If I would have known what I was about to dig,,,I would have left these in the ground.
Why?
Would have been some good targets for testing detectors on.
Might have told me some thing valuable.

The Gold Field program being AM program, some folks thinking use for depth.
They may have overlooked at using as an unmasker/separator.

Maybe a question here for the "experts".
What other detectors actually have speed adjustable (recovery) all metal feature ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 03:06PM by Sod-buster.

What I was getting at is that 3D is the better scenario.

Had you used a 3D situation, the test would have much more meaning. Simply laying a coin next to a nail doesn't tell us much as far as masking is concerned.

Even laying the nail on top of the coin is not as good a test as laying the nail 1" above the coin.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 03:07PM by Badger in NH.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I was getting at is that 3D is the better sce
> nario.
>
> Had you used a 3D situation, the test would have m
> uch more meaning. Simply laying a coin next to a n
> ail doesn't tell us much as far as masking is conc
> erned.
>
> Even laying the nail on top of the coin is not as
> good a test as laying the nail 1" above the coin.
>
> .

I test 3D scenarios.
A roll of duct tape 2" and 3" wide will do.
Also one of those big sponges like you wash a car with works too, allows for nail(s) to be oriented vertically.

r

u

With this snow, detecting on hold for me, so I may try at least to get out and do some 3 d test wth gold field.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 03:28PM by Sod-buster.

Foam insulation board works well too.

.

Thanks for all the work Sod-Buster. very interesting. Gives us one more tool to try to find that elusive good target.

martygene Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for all the work Sod-Buster. very interesti
> ng. Gives us one more tool to try to find that elu
> sive good target.


You are welcome.

Folks also shouldn't forget, you can actually make a second gold field program with a different IAR setting.
So a user could hunt in one gold field program, check with another gold field program, and or check with non gold field program.

I was very satisfied with the stability of the gold field program, using both HF coils, elliptical HF coil a tad more stable though.

There is some tone nuance using gold field too. Now I am not about to say currently I have mastered or even gotten good with listening to it, but the nuance is there. A nice little hollow sounding tone,,iron makes a more robust yelling at you tone. Now this would be on coin sized and smaller targets. A hoard or car hood might sound different.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 05:10PM by Sod-buster.

Hi Sod Buster, That's COLD !!!! How can I search for (Dan Pa) I hear he is on this Forum ???
First time on this forum, If theirs a Question thread sorry, I will go their if I can find it,
wear do I go too get this response, Thank You. (Micfin)

Micfin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Sod Buster, That's COLD !!!! How can I searc
> h for (Dan Pa) I hear he is on this Forum ???
> First time on this forum, If theirs a Question thr
> ead sorry, I will go their if I can find it,
> wear do I go too get this response, Thank You. (
> Micfin)


Welcome to the forum.

Here is Dan's profile you can send him private message by selecting pm here.

You can ask questions here publically if you want and feel comfortable.
This forum unlike most others has no subforums. Just one main area to post, read.
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 05:28PM by Sod-buster.

You should know, you had one, the Signum lol
Can you do it with the Rutus aswell, i can't remember?

Sod-buster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------
> Maybe a question here for the "experts".
> What other detectors actually have speed adjustabl
> e (recovery) all metal feature ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 05:48PM by ghound.

Thanks Sod Buster 4R Dan,s PM , Is their a Help on how too Navigate this forum,
How can I get too the Fisher Question place,
Thanks 4R the Welcoming me, Micfin

Gent that put me on gold field using HF coils, has posted over on detector prospector forum.
In old Roman site, he used xy screen with gold field and had good results for IDing nonferrous.

I'll have to play with, when the snow melts.

Alright,
Some preliminary results based on test using clad dime and a few nails down the barrel. (Elliptical HF only for now).
My new friend in UK didn't lie to me.

Using xy screen and gold field,,tremendous asset based on my test.

Mr Southern if he chooses to do a video showing this, folks will definitely take notice.
Need to check using LF 9" coil and the round HF coil.

Gold field when set up right will defintiely alert user in nails of some nonferrous. And user will have a pretty good idea, target is nonferrous too.
You try to detect these same scenarios I did today with traditional programs,,and whatever huntable settings you think you can come up with- no dice for detection and be able to discern ferrous vs nonferrous.

One pic here. Nail and clad dime. Roll of tape used to reference my coil,height sweep.
Gold field 28.8 kHz 3 Reactivty gives good signal. IAR set to 5. Reactivity 2.5 hits the coin too.
Xy screen shows nonferrous target based on positioning of trace. Sweep nail solo you get ferrous trace on xy screen.

Nokta Impact wearing 4x7" coil 20khz -- good luck getting a signal when sweeping down the barrel, at least some thing to make you curious.
Deus using traditions programs,,I can't find a set of settings to hit the dime I could use hunting a site with nails.
One thing I failed to mention. Using xy screen you lose your fast ground grab function using pinpoint button.





Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 09:50PM by Sod-buster.

Some interesting tests done here, albeit all in 2D: [m.youtube.com] Can’t wait to see how the Equinox performs in this simple test.

Does anyone have tests of HF coils on deep targets in non mineralized ground?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2018 03:24PM by go-rebels.

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some interesting tests done here, albeit all in 2D
> : [m.youtube.com] Can’
> t wait to see how the Equinox performs in this sim
> ple test.
>
> Does anyone have tests of HF coils on deep targets
> in non mineralized ground?


Maybe not what you ask here.

I will be sharing some info in a few days.

Using 11" LF coil, 9"LF coil, elliptical HF coil, round HF coil on 3 buried clad dimes.
These dimes buried 19 months ago.
Depth are 8", 9", and 10".

Soil mineralization is hitting 7 dots in Deus strength meter.
I have done test twice, I want to do a third time for more validation.
Besides I have received excessive rain as of late, need to allow time for water to settle.

I can already say for sure.
Using HF coils, gold field Reactivty level 2 is where the depth starts coming in. Lower Reactivty settings a user will have some info although small and dependency on threshold is mandatory, not so much or at all with with Reactivty 2 setting.
And it seems IAR setting has no effect at all with depth. (Solo sitting target)

I may put the xs explorer over these buried coins for gee whiz, the deep tech warrior and Impact too..
And will definitely put Equinox over these.

I actually just relocated these as they were in a hay field. And I finally found them.
I know about how far they were buried apart and which dimes depth wise are which based on the order they are in.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2018 03:53PM by Sod-buster.

NASA-Tom, have you played with the new HF coils on the Deus using 4.0/4.1 software? I’m interested to know your take on this setup. Performance wise, it almost seems like a new detector.

I've been watching this....... more than just 'casually'. But....... no.......... I do not have a Deus. I still have a XP GMP.

This pic here.


I don't know if any other detector made can do what Deus does here using gold field program.

We see nail board test, and nail and coin down the barrel tests done and even videoed. But what we usually see is an Indian head coin used-not a higher conductor.

Both Deus HF coils react the same sweeping down the barrel here on this nail and dime combo. I like elliptical better for use of gold field application.
I have only compared the use of 14.4khz and 28.8khz, use of 28.8 kHz here mandatory.
I can rotate around this down the barrel sweep using gold field and Deus will ID dime.
I can get a stop me to investigate signal from around 6" height, going to Reactivty 2 setting more like 7". (Sweeping down the barrel of nail)
I used IAR setting of 5 when testing. IMO a user hunting a polluted site using gold field using IAR setting 5, once they learn Deus tendency, tone nuance they won't dig much iron. Shocking low numbers actually. Don't forget a user can always toggle to adjacent disc mode program and sweep their suspect target to maybe gather more info.

For gee whiz grounding the nail to dime, seems to have little to no affect on how Deus behaves here, even placing dime under nail and sweeping down the barrel little to no effect.
I will add some more info here, so as not to bump the thread.

More info. This info applies to HF elliptical, haven't checked round HF coil.
Gold field is supposed to be an all metal program.
I guess it may be fair to say not a true all metal program. Why?
Coin hunters or folks hunting areas where the mighty steel bottlecaps live.
Deus uisng Reactivty settings 2.5 and 3, I didn't try try 4 and 5, but using 2.5 and 3 levels Deus does a great job IDing bottlecaps via xy screen zoom at 4-6 levels. Screen paints a backwards C looking signature. A signature I sure haven't seen over any iron or nonferrous target thus far. Going to Reactivty 2 this signature on xy screen even with real low zoom setting, this backwards C signature disappears, so this leads me to beleive Reactivty setting going lower like 2 and lower settings takes some form of filtering away. Depth using Reactivty 2 seems to increase too. Maybe the reason why-filtering decreases.

Another pic

Applies to HF elliptical coil.
I compared hot program 0 disc full tones and gold field IAR 5 setting.
Sweeping down the barrels of these nails as shown, no tone in gold field, naturally you hear the iron in hot program.
But what if I turn 90 degrees and sweep what are the results?
I might be more tempted to dig what I hear using hot program vs what I hear using gold field program. I get a blip tonally using hot program with a tad of grunt. Gold field program I can hear the iron more in the background due to the way the tone ramps up on the edges. Maybe good description of what I hear, when turned and sweeping in gold field signal sounds more like sweeping down the barrel using hot program (with less grunt sound).

For gee whiz here for folks sweeping down the barrel of these nails, switch IAR to 4, with coil height you get pretty good signal, a signal Inwould investigate.

Another pic
j
Applies to elliptical HF coil.
This one is real challenging a double down the barrel nail test with high conductive coin (clad dime).
Sweeping down the barrel comparing hot program 0 disc full tone ps 28.8khz to gold field 28.8 kHz IAR 5 setting, Reactivtty 2.5 for both.
Down the barrels neither will yield a thing to investigate, gold field silent actually.
But if I rotate 90 degrees both programs yield a signal (good signal).
But rotating around 30 degrees off of sweeping across the nails comparing hot program vs gold field program, gold field the clear winner for tone produced quality/length produced. Actually here I would very likely not to pay attention at all to what hot program tells me tonally, would suspect iron.

Another pic.

Applies to HF elliptical coil.
Again comparing hot program (silencer is -1 btw) to gold field using settings mentioned above in previous pic.
A good ole piece of flat iron, not small either.
Sweeping lengthwise.
Hot program will nail this, a person might get fooled and dig.
Gold field program IMO exposes this for what it really is far better tonally and tone behavior.
I even swept from practically all directions gold field program the winner here. Btw, no reasonable amount of disc in hot program will expose this flat iron. I even went to 30.

Another pic

A gnarly looking piece of iron.
Applies to elliptical HF coil.
Gold field program IAR 5 28.8 khz tried Reactivty levels 2 and 2.5, no tone provided at all. Even at higher coil heights when sweeping. I even changed orientation several different ways, still no tone.

More data this not associate with gold field program.
Compared 9" LF, 9" HF, and elliptical HF coil all on a 11" nickel. Ground conditions WET.
Disclaimer: this nickel only buried for about 7 months, has has good amount of rain since buried.
Mineral strength meter hitting 6 ticks. Ground phase 14.4khz runs 77.
Elliptical coil gives a very nice smooth clean hit.
Checked hot and deep program, deep sparks the signal up a bit.
I can even run Reactivty 1 silencer -1 and get this nickel.
14.4khz and 28.8 khz signals very similar but at lower Reactivty 1 and 2 the 28.8 kHz smoother.

Round HF 9" coil signal is louder but has more iron twang vs elliptical coil.
Similar results as far as being able to run lower Reactivtty and acquire satisfactory signal.
Some noticeable coil height advantage witnessed and still get satisfactory signal to get me to stop hunting in the wild.

9" LF coil (only Tx Power 2 level used)
Can acquire signal, weaker signal vs round HF equivalent settings. Tried both 12khz and 18khz, with 12khz giving slight advantage for best signal achieved.
Lowest Reactivty to acquire satisfactory signal level 2.5. Level 2 getting awfully choppy.

Comparing round HF to 9" LF coil, to put this into perspective. LF coil with reactivity at 2 the signal,sounds the similar as round HF coil at Reactivty 0.

For those who want to hunt with default GB setting 88 using version 4.1, in medium mineralized ground, do so at your own risk. Applies to all coils above.

What about varying ground sensitivity setting, did it have any affect? I didn't think so, especially comparing levels 6,7.8.9 and 10. Lower levels 1,2,3 maybe just a tad. I am starting to think the ground sensivity's affect is more zonal as far as which targets it affects (shallower and midepth nonferrous). Still not ready to commit 100% on this though. Have checked some other deep dimes, noted the same. Plus the fact all hunting in the wild, all targets that painted better signal using level 6 ground sensitivty setting vs level 10 were IMO considered mid depth targets, a couple shallower. All nonferrous found was either flat and thinner or elongated and small in diameter. Remember this area done already had Deus action previously earlier versions.



Edited 20 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2018 01:24AM by Sod-buster.

Edited 20 Times? Really?

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Edited 20 Times? Really?


Yes, obviously you didn't read.
I continuously added info thoughout the day, and didn't want to bump the thread every time I added data.

I keep no notes, post everything from memory. Hence I post info generally in batches.

Some of the edits though were for some corrections.
Typing on iPad not the easiest thing to do well all the time. I tried turning auto correct off on my iPad, but didn't like what I saw when using. So iPad likes to change a few words to other words, hence I have to correct.

I wouldn't trade my iPad mini though for a tractor trailer load of PCs or laptops. I have those too, or I should say they are doorstops unless I need to update my Deus or Impact.
Even have a new badkup mini iPad, this one I use is a war horse, battery is getting bad but I'll use it till it dies.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2018 04:50AM by Sod-buster.

GF is a winner save it in 4 8 12 plus the 18 .its kinda miraculous for depth ..empty sites are suddenly alive with TIDs

One of our fine forum members stuck indoors with a foot of snow outside needs to ship Tom their Deus w/HF coil for testing. I’ve got $10 to help with shipping.