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28kh for relics?

Posted by calabash digger 
28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 11:41AM
I use a Deus and have a new HF coil on it which runs 14 kh,28kh and 56 kh. I have and others have been trying the higher freqs out on iron infested relic sites. We are finding that 28 kh unmask and is a relic killer . A few holes before I found my GW button a few days ago ,I popped a 1855 silver half dime too. I know the lower freqs hit silver better but 28 kh nailed this small coin which is not much bigger than a trime . Ok does anyone know the science of why the higher freq is unmasking in iron so well? I would have never thought of 28 kh for relics but I'm telling you theres something up with this coil and that freq for iron infested relic sites....
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 12:43PM
Calabash,
Seems the Euro engineers started this trend with higher frequency used with detectors.
Why?
Maybe because their sites older with history, more polluted.

You're right 28.8khz does work alright.

The rust and higher levels decomposed nails are blinding a lot of detectors and yes even detecrors with smaller coil setups.

I am finding mutilpe settings have to be used to determine if a site is indeed cleaned out nonferrous wise.

Like 0 disc full tones, followed up by ful tones and level 3 disc, followed up using pitch program and approx 6.3 disc.

But I have through conservation discovered this too.
Use of gold field program.

An example here.
Take a 4ft by 4 ft square in old site with nails, nail bits and rust.
What would be the fastest way to see if anything is hiding nonferrous masked in this small patch?
IMO using the gold field program Reactivty 2.5 and 3. IAR dialed to 5. Hit the patch gridding using, if no hits, chances are patch is "dead" so to speak (Deus dead) . This would be using both HF coils doing. Coil position and speed in this patch can be a whole lot more sloppy or in error using gold field program vs more traditional program use. Coil height advantage using gold field too, the $1 dollar gold coin gold field I think ups the odds of alerting, anything smaller nonferous really... During green up when we can't get our coils as close to the ground gold field might help a person.
Strange sounding here maybe for folks.
Gold field is All Metal actually, but it seems to unmask better than using disc in iron or allows a user to not have to flush a nonferrous target highly crippled to get a stop you signal to investigate. Seems the less filtering is allowing Deus coil to be more forgiving somewhat at unmasking/separating.
Now, if iron is bigger iron using gold field may pose some problems for folks.
Sites where nonferrous targets are sparse,,,gold field very good to run.
I do favor using elliptical HF with gold field vs round HF coil. Actually using elliptical HF coil gold field program I think a user will dig less iron when pushing the coil versus using disc .

Calabash a gold coin is in your future, gotta be. And your gold coin you find may be foreign IMO. Which would be even better.

I sure don't won't to overthink the Deus HF coils. All I know is they work !!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 01:16PM by Sod-buster.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 01:57PM
Hello calabash & welcome to the forum.----Yes, the 20(+) kHz freq. does work the iron better (or so I find).-------Hopefully Keith S. or Wayne (MRH) will be along to answer as to the "why"(s).------They are our local experts here.thumbs down------------Del
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 06:13PM
Thanks ,I know some who are running 54 kh and 74 kh. I found a Script I in 74 kh but I was only using that freq because emi was so bad next to a treatment plant. Others are hunting are infested Civil War sites and finding relics with those high freqs.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 06:32PM
Calabash Digger welcome to the forum. Love your videos on YouTube. Learned a lot from watching them. Looking forward to new ones in 2018.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 07:12PM
Welcome Calabash!!

I'm no expert on the subject ...Yet the higher the freqs in iron the better the machine is able to take advantage of being able to shut down faster recover faster between targets...Plus the higher the freq climbs up the Khz scale to a POINT it starts to see bits and pieces of targets better as its looking for smaller targets....Round no longer becomes necessary to excite the eddy currents like on lower freqs

Take your half dime...that's small and thin anyways..Place it in between some iron and maybe even on edge or partially covered with a nail and the amount of conductance it offers to a metal detector can be quite minuscule.So take the ability of the machine to offer exacting tone break form a small nall from low to higher tone and ability to have faster recovery and blendy bleedy audio and filters it can all combine to SEE the more severely masked SMALL or lower conductance items to begin with..

Basically the detector can take advantage of the higher freqs to see smaller..

Use it in the right site and it can re-open it to keepers use it in wrong sites You'll dig a ton of lightweight stuff off the surface to a few inches deep..stuff I call grass nap finds..

The best place to use the higher freqs is clean sites or heavily littered small ferrous surface sites..Use that freq to your advantage...USe ti for what it works for...On the cleaner sites if the dirt is good enough with no grassy air gaps you can take advantage of finding low thin non ferrous at depth like 6 or 7 inches that may have been overlooked before maybe even toa 20khz detector because of being of such low conductance..like ID pins thin silver etc...

The higher than norm freqs work best on depleted sites for sure..Don't expect belt buckles or silver dollars to show up on those sites..its a picker freq and needs to be used as a tool instead of a Universal hunter.

Hersa neat story...i dug a spill of Sharps one time at about 8-9 inches..theres was about 25 or so of them...I was using 18khz...got one more hit after I had dug them bullets and though for sure it was a nail..Well dug down about 11 to 12 inches about a foot to the side of the drops area and it was a Whole U.S Box plate lying flat..Sounded like a nail falsing..that was twenty years ago and since then I've seen it again and again..the Higher the freq goes the more it struggles to see higher conductance items..

Yet also with 18khz I've dug the skin of a U.S plat chopped in half..just the U piece....about 4 inches deep on edge that was walked over a hundred times with half a broken horseshoe in close proximity...

Horse for courses

Keith..

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 08:48PM
As I understand it a lot of mudlarks on the Thames foreshore use as basic detectors the

Compass 77b 100khz TR which -does- see through a certain amount of iron.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 09:19PM
D&P-OR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello calabash & welcome to the forum.----Yes, the
> 20(+) kHz freq. does work the iron better (or so I
> find).-------Hopefully Keith S. or Wayne (MRH) wil
> l be along to answer as to the "why"(s).------They
> are our local experts here.thumbs down------------Del

LoL = you're funny Del grinning smiley

Welcome aboard Calabash digger (love that GW button you dug) thumbs down

I wouldn't say I'm an expert as to the "whys" but many long time diggers know/understand that the higher freq. machines/coils sift through the heavy polluted iron sites of small nails/iron bits better than the lower freq. units by far.

In all honesty (as Keith alluded to & mentioned) your best bet with the high freq. coil is (as described above) in the heavy nails/small bits of iron type sites that have been pounded/depleted over time by others/many machines. That's where you'll see the most benefit with the high freq. coil as it will see/pick out the stuff left behind that the others just couldn't see. I personally don't like the HF coil for my style of hunting and don't like using it outside of the above described type site as you'll find yourself diggin small bits of scrap/tiny junk and chasing it to no ends. The coil was/is designed 1st and foremost for nugget hunting and that's the size of targets it loves/hits on the best (although) as a byproduct of running on such high freq/s. in iron = you'll hit some nice small/thinner coins, cuff buttons, etc. and a few other items here/there in the mix of Iron.

Personally I like the Deus with the 9" LF coil on 18kHz the best out of all the Deus coils, and I also love an F19/G2+ on 19kHz or one of the Nokta/Makro machines running 19 or 20kHz for sifting iron much more than the Deus with HF coil. I've found a LOT more good stuff in the iron using those setups than I have with the HF coil and since I don't like chasing/digging large amounts of tiny bits of scrap/etc. I sold the HF coil. There's a place for it but for me I don't have any gold nugget hunting here in Michigan and the few/far between times/places I could or would want to use one does not warrant the $$ spent on one.

Good luck on future finds and keep us updated thumbs down

Wayne
MRH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 09:29PM by MichiganRelicHunter.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 09:32PM
Wilci

Yes the 100khz BFO units like you mentioned are excellent on especially exposed sites ( the Thames scenario ought to fit that like a glove)..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 09:41PM
Thanks for the info. I love the hf coil and my lf has been retired pretty much. The sites I'm hunting are iron infested civil war and before home sites. I have been going over them in 14 kh first and then sifting thru them in 28kh. We cut a spot out in a field where the home was 30x30 . We blistered it in 7kh and 14 kh and dug 4 war of 1812 buttons and numerous flats. Its where the main part of the house was and loaded with square nails. I came back over it in 28 kh and dug another 20 or so non ferrous targets off it. I will give you this some of it was just small metal but 3 of those targets were buttons including a war or 1812 script a button. This falls right inline with what you guys said above. Thanks again. I dug that GW in 28 kh doing the same thing in iron at another site too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 09:43PM by calabash digger.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 09:49PM
Calabash ..yes the round stuff that's partially masked by most machines of lower freq will light up on say 20Khz..But the smaller weird shaped stuff that's not round and even the round stuff that's SUPER severely partially masked starts to have a fighting chance up at 30khz..

all the machine has to do is see a glimpse of it peeking out and then dissect...

that's one reason Gold machines are high gain and higher freqs..natural gold is weird and pitted and small mostly and the combo excites it better..

You'd like the DTVG gain 30Khz model..it has great punch on 30Khz even on larger items like quarter sizes..Yet hits small in ron too

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 09:52PM by Keith Southern.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 10:07PM
I'l have the elliptical HF tested on the Monte's Nail Board with 68Khz. I find it better than 28Khz.

I have searched this last half year along and in the river in the Netherlands with the HF elliptical. I found several very, and I mean very very small silver sceats coins from the 7th century. After the winter I definitely wil search the place again with 68Khz. The place is loaded with iron, cokes, basalt and other junk.

ps. I tested with the small coin (< 1 gr.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 10:13PM by wilci.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 10:12PM
Yes Wilci that sounds like a Good place to use HF..

A good tool to have..

that's detecting Getting the right tool for the job..

Kudos to you for getting the tools together for job at hand!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 10:47PM
Keith Southern stated - <I'm no expert on the subject ...

Keith "Humble" Southern.....If you ain't an expert, we have none,.... there aren't any..... there are a few that can hang with you, only a few though. Thanks for your free expertise.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 12, 2018 10:59PM
Thanks for the expertise.... I can always use another tool in the shed.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 13, 2018 01:12AM
ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keith Southern stated - <I'm no expert on the subj
> ect ...
>
> Keith "Humble" Southern.....If you ain't an expert
> , we have none,.... there aren't any..... there ar
> e a few that can hang with you, only a few though.
> Thanks for your free expertise.


Yeah Ozzie-----We're fortunate to have the likes of Keith & Wayne hangin around here.-------IF ONLY they was as good lookin as I is tho!!!!winking smiley
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 13, 2018 01:16AM
Good grief! yawning smiley HH jim tn
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 13, 2018 05:38PM
I never tried the HF coils when i had the Deus, are the HF coils set to ID as 18khz or at there real freq, is it possible that the larger silver coins or high conductors would read above 99 at depth or in poor soil?

When you read about the way the Deus uses the GB in goldfield, it seems to differ in that it accepts all the ground zone and cuts nothing out, but still offers ID and basic ferrous/non ferrous, so if using the HF coils in this setting it shouldn't miss anything?

Here's the bit from the user manual.
.
.
To go deeper in these difficult conditions, the "Gold Field" program uses
a true All Metal mode that allows you to accept a zone of ground that is
usually not available. Instead of rejecting all the ground values below a
predefined value (as on conventional detectors), it rejects only the
specific value of ground in which you are searching, which means you
have to adjust precisely.
Keith Southern Wrote
>
> The higher than norm freqs work best on depleted s
> ites for sure..Don't expect belt buckles or silver
> dollars to show up on those sites..its a picker fr
> eq and needs to be used as a tool instead of a Uni
> versal hunter.
> Keith..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 06:38PM by ghound.
Re: 28kh for relics?
January 13, 2018 07:01PM
Too Kind Ozzie!!


Beware of those who say they have all the answers

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
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