THE NEW MAKRO KRUZER SERIES!

It's what you Impact guys wanted in a waterproof detector at a lower price. If you like the Impact, the Multi-Kruzer will not disappoint. And you won't have to buy it from kellyco.
All I can say for now until they ship.

Nokta/Makro hears your wants, they aim to please.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect multi-frequency is getting pretty well s
> ewn up by Minelab's patents and the other mfg don'
> t have any intention of paying licence fees to Min
> elab to do multi-frequency operation. That being
> the case the only recourse available to them is to
> change the definition of multi-frequency to includ
> e user select-able frequency.
>
> Real multi-frequency operation is likely to remain
> a very small playing field for the foreseeable fut
> ure. Today we have, what, 4 mfg if you count the
> future AKA release: Fisher, Whites, Minelab, and
> AKA if the Intronik ever makes it to market.



>
> But select-able is a good thing too.
>
> HH
> Mike

I don't understand why a manufacturer can not make a multi frequency detector because of Minelab patents. Wasn't the older Fisher CZ5 and other CZ's running 2 frequencies at the same time, which is what I consider multi frequency. Not trying to bash any manufacturer just trying to understand.

Sven1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's what you Impact guys wanted in a waterproof d
> etector at a lower price. If you like the Impact,
> the Multi-Kruzer will not disappoint. And you won'
> t have to buy it from kellyco.
> All I can say for now until they ship.
>
> Nokta/Makro hears your wants, they aim to please.


I am very happy to hear that there will be other dealers besides Kellyco

ecris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great news. Thank you. Do you have an estimated de
> livery date for US availability?

Received this message from my distributor today -

Makro Kruzer (Shipping ETA February)
Makro Multi Kruzer (Shipping ETA February)
Makro Gold Kruzer (Shipping ETA March)

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect multi-frequency is getting pretty well sewn up by Minelab's patents and the other mfg don't have any intention
> of paying licence fees to Minelab to do multi-frequency operation.

No, Minelab patents aren't really a barrier. Most of their patents have focused on PI, the older MF patents have expired.

> That being the case the only recourse available to them is to change the definition of multi-frequency to include user
> select-able frequency.

Regardless of what Cambridge might have to say, in metal detector-land the term "multifrequency" has been defined to mean multiple frequencies at the same time. Selectable-frequency detectors have been around for a very long time and have never been marketed as "multifrequency," even by the King of Marketing Nonsense. Hopefully Makro will reconsider their selection of terminology.

Nokta Detectors Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello all… normally I prefer to answer questions r
> egarding our company and/or products only on forum
> s but I do chime in from time to time to clarify a
> few points:
>
> Yes the opening line of this post is referencing a
> ''claim'' made by competition that their new model
> will obsolete all single frequency detectors.
> Our response to that, with all due respect to ghou
> nd, is not coming from despair but rather from OUR
> respect for the end users and their choices.
> Manufacturers (including Nokta&Makro) CANNOT decid
> e on what will be obsolete... only the END USERS c
> an...and as long as customers like and prefer cert
> ain products, the only thing that will be obsolete
> are the claims made.
>
> The Kruzer series has 3 detectors in the line :
> 2 of them single frequency and one of them being m
> ulti frequency.
> Now, as this is an English speaking forum, it is n
> ot my place to explain the meaning of ‘’Multi’’ in
> the English language but as it is taken from the C
> ambridge dictionary as well as others, the word mu
> lti means ‘’having many, more than one or two’’.
>
> So multi Kruzer is a MULTI FREQUENCY detector with
> 3 selectable frequencies.
>
> Hope it is clear.. thank you all!

You 'Serve' like a Wimbledon Champion Dilek -

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

Multifrequency in MD:
1. Two or more simultaneously operating frequencies - AKA Intronik
2. Harmonics of frequencies - Minelab

Now the most interesting:
3. A frequency floating in a given boundary, changing over a sufficiently short time *.
4. Consecutive use of two or more different single frequencies, for a short enough time *.

* for a short enough time implies the time required for the analysis of the target under the coil as it moves over the target.

As you can see, points 3 and 4 are not used at all by the manufacturers of detectors ... and they are very interesting in terms of possibilities ...

That is, we can state that the use of multifrequency depends only on the desire of the manufacturer, but not on legal restrictions ...
(sorry for my English)

"Now the most interesting:
3. .....
4. Consecutive use of two or more different single frequencies, for a short enough time"

This is exactly what BBS/FBS do.

Sorry for encouraging off-topic chat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2018 10:33AM by Pimento.

Until they do more with a machines ability to operate and pick up small gold IN/NEAR salt water a lot of beach gold is going to be walked over. ML has done a lot with PI....... but do they have one for salt water? I think these newer companies have really moved along in the right direction........ but its going to take time to realize we are looking for gold... especially small gold. Just having a machine that CAN work in salt water ..... still falls short IMO.

Dew

Maybe already asked some where......Can the Impact coils be used?

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Hillis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I suspect multi-frequency is getting pretty well
> sewn up by Minelab's patents and the other mfg don
> 't have any intention
> > of paying licence fees to Minelab to do multi-fr
> equency operation.
>
> No, Minelab patents aren't really a barrier. Most
> of their patents have focused on PI, the older MF
> patents have expired.
>
> > That being the case the only recourse available
> to them is to change the definition of multi-frequ
> ency to include user
> > select-able frequency.
>
> Regardless of what Cambridge might have to say, in
> metal detector-land the term "multifrequency" has
> been defined to mean multiple frequencies at the s
> ame time. Selectable-frequency detectors have been
> around for a very long time and have never been ma
> rketed as "multifrequency," even by the King of Ma
> rketing Nonsense. Hopefully Makro will reconsider
> their selection of terminology.

Agreed. Now we will always have to specify "simultaneous MF" or "select-able MF".

I like Nok/Mak machines. Very capable machines. I've had three of them. I like the way Nok/Mak listens to their customers. Great company. But, waterproofing their already existing line of detectors is good but falls short (I think waterproof detectors should have been an industry standard for years now). They have just repackaged their old tech.... waterproof Impact/Gold Racer. These "new" waterproof units will, no doubt, "obsolete" the old non-waterproof units (Oh, come on! That was funny!). Considering what Minelab is launching in the Equinox, both select-able AND simultaneous MF in a waterproof package, this misses the mark IMO. Now, when Nok/Mak comes out with a true MF or a PI unit I'm all in!

Dean

Thank you, Carl. I'm glad to hear that information.

HH
Mike

"TO subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence" Sun Tzu

It seems,to some,that ML has Won the war without ever having to show their "secret weapon".

I thought the multi-frequency term argument was solved while ago.

Frequency-Shift (some manufactures marketed this as multi in the past and technically is multi)
Multi-Frequency (selectable like impact, deus, etc or changing with coil like AKA and X-terra)
Simultaneous Multi-Frequency (2 or more at once. CZ, FBS, V3i, etc)

For dry land hunters, I'll bet there are more aftermarket coils available for Kruzer and be cheaper than the so-called secret weapon most of us has never seen in the flesh. Actually if a pro package is available looks like a person might just pick one of them up for the price of Equinox 800 stock coil sized package.

Now, we don't know as far as grading service on Makro for defective waterproof units, but we have seen shoddy reports coming from the Makers of CTX. Granted it seems Minelab has moved their repair facility, but I certainly don't have enough data to rate good or bad.

Also, at least Dilek does show up in forums and addresses issues as far as their equipment and folks problems, I can't say I have seen this happen very often with Minelab.

I try to be objective and fair to all manufacturers.

Actually, think about this. Unless I am unaware. Has anyone from marketing, engineering, etc from Minelab posted anything at all on this forum concerning Equinox??
And no disrespect to Dr Tones but his comments/posting here not what I a referring to.

The real question is, is the world big enough for both this secret weapon and the Kruzer series detectors? I think the answer is YES.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2018 04:26PM by Sod-buster.

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought the multi-frequency term argument was so
> lved while ago.
>
> Frequency-Shift (some manufactures marketed this a
> s multi in the past and technically is multi)
> Multi-Frequency (selectable like impact, deus, etc
> or changing with coil like AKA and X-terra)
> Simultaneous Multi-Frequency (2 or more at once.
> CZ, FBS, V3i, etc)

Craig I think you hit the nail on the head, there is no "metal detector-land" de facto standard for these terms. Tom Dankowski commented a while back that an industry standard on the definition should be achieved, so when discussing these terms everyone's on the same page.

Not to knock Carl, BUT I do find it interesting that the company that appears to be one of the furthest behind in current detector technology advancements makes this statement, seems a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. I mean while everyone some companies have been advancing metal detector technology, FTP is touting ten year old detectors with PLUS signs as a new machine, and the only thing actually new coming out is pinpointers...ugh.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> detectingMO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought the multi-frequency term argument was
> so
> > lved while ago.
> >
> > Frequency-Shift (some manufactures marketed this
> a
> > s multi in the past and technically is multi)
> > Multi-Frequency (selectable like impact, deus, e
> tc
> > or changing with coil like AKA and X-terra)
> > Simultaneous Multi-Frequency (2 or more at once.
> > CZ, FBS, V3i, etc)
>
> Craig I think you hit the nail on the head, there
> is no "metal detector-land" de facto standard for
> these terms. Tom Dankowski commented a while back
> that an industry standard on the definition should
> be achieved, so when discussing these terms everyo
> ne's on the same page.
>
> Not to knock Carl, BUT I do find it interesting th
> at the company that appears to be one of the furth
> est behind in current detector technology advancem
> ents makes this statement, seems a bit of the pot
> calling the kettle black. I mean while everyon
> e some companies have been advancing metal det
> ector technology, FTP is touting ten year old dete
> ctors with PLUS signs as a new machine, and the on
> ly thing actually new coming out is pinpointers...
> ugh.

Point(s) well taken Brian.

vfp7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Multifrequency in MD:
> 1. Two or more simultaneously operating frequencies - AKA Intronik

Also Minelab, Fisher, & White's

> 2. Harmonics of frequencies - Minelab

Actually, Fisher is the only one I know of to have done it this way.

> Now the most interesting:
> 3. A frequency floating in a given boundary, changing over a sufficiently short time *.

In the olden days of "TR" detectors (another terminology wreck) there were designs that used a modulated transmitter that did just that. More recently, some work has been done on chirp-modulated detectors. In the end, if a target is analyzed at more than one frequency then I would say that justifies the multifrequency label.

> 4. Consecutive use of two or more different single frequencies, for a short enough time *.

Pimento is right, this is how BBS/FBS work.

> That is, we can state that the use of multifrequency depends only on the desire of the manufacturer, but not on legal restrictions ...

True enough. There is nothing to stop manufacturers from abusing terminology in any way they please. Other than to ask politely that they not do so.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to knock Carl, BUT I do find it interesting that the company that appears to be one of the furthest behind in current
> detector technology advancements makes this statement, seems a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

The company didn't make the statement, I personally made it. I rarely post on forums in any official capacity, it's almost always my personal views & opinions.

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not to knock Carl, BUT I do find it interesting that the company that appears to be one of the furthest behind in current
> > detector technology advancements makes this statement, seems a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.
>
> The company didn't make the statement, I personally made it. I rarely post on forums in any official
> capacity, it's almost always my personal views & opinions.

Understood, and we are appreciative that you do post here.

I'll have to wait and see if the Kruzer can replace my Racer 2 and Impact for ghost towns and iron infested sites. If it can then I see myself with an Equinox for hunting the saltwater beaches both wet and dry and old parks looking for silver, and the Kruzer replacing the Racer 2/Impact for hunting the iron infest sites, trashy sites, and freshwater lakes/rivers. Neither will replace my White's with the BigFoot coil for hunting clad and jewelry.

Pimento and Carl are exacting/validated.

SkiWhiz,
Thanks for clarifying.


SkiWhiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ecris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Great news. Thank you. Do you have an estimated
> de
> > livery date for US availability?
>
> Received this message from my distributor today -
>
> Makro Kruzer (Shipping ETA February)
> Makro Multi Kruzer (Shipping ETA February)
> Makro Gold Kruzer (Shipping ETA March)

Looks like a nice rig! Keep up the great work Nokta

I do not see a Freq Shift in the menu. Nice pics here ----->[www.facebook.com]

Dilek or Testers - Please elaborate

BTW Unit looks great. I assume it will sound and operate as the Racer's and Impact

thanks, Tim

Close up pics of Kruzer series line here.

[www.detectorprospector.com]

Tim H Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not see a Freq Shift in the menu. Nice pics h
> ere ----->[www.facebook.com]
> ype=3&theater
>
> Dilek or Testers - Please elaborate
>
> BTW Unit looks great. I assume it will sound and o
> perate as the Racer's and Impact
>
> thanks, Tim

Probably a pinpoint + arrow shortcut to shift

ok, that's good as long as it has that option

All you water hunters might look into whether the vibrate feature would allow hunting without headphones.

PH....... i have to ask, why would i want to hunt without headphones? I would have to assume their speaker responds better than say the audiosears speaker or a more responsive piezo. In most cases it wont plus it uses more battery. The muffs...... a good pair of muffs....also really keeps the noise down.

"Neither will replace my White's with the BigFoot coil for hunting clad and jewelry." Tom S. .... you might change your mind once you get the EQ for jewelry.