NASA Tom--more informatio regarding your silver rosette found at Ft. Meade.

I think it likely it had a "mate" at one time, given that the one you found bore half of the image of the Tennessee State Seal, namely the "Agriculture" portion of the image, which is what makes me believe the rosette was actually part of a pair of rosettes, and the other bore the image pertaining to the other half of the image--the boat with the sail, signifying the "commerce" portion.

It's intriguing, and I believe your rosette is literally a "one of its kind" find.


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Wow Greg! THANK YOU for your time/labor/research!!! Stunning data! Now I wonder if the other one (half) was also lost........ or may have been on the same horse! I remember (within inches) of exactly 'where' I dug it up........ a Decade ago. I may go back there with different equipment...... to see if I can find another one.

isn't it amazing how we can remember where and when we dug one of our great finds and we can't remember what we had for lunch yesterday? lol

Greg...... the more I look into this....... the more validity there is in your statement(s).

That look's like a Agriculture and Commerce Rosette Tom found...and Yes the Tennessee state seal is that...Although Separated into two distinct portraits..

If you notice on Toms rosette the sheaf of wheat/hay is I believe already on a boat/Barge???Seems the sheaf is sitting in a flat sort of vessel??...plow in background...that's the double meaning...Tennessee has it split,,, Toms is Combined as one maybe??..So his is the True Agriculture and Commerce symbol as a WHOLE ...Could very well be Tennessee but the Rosettes is the COMPLETE meaning of both..

Toms could also be a Person from Washington from the Federal Government ..Maybe down to OBSERVE the area for MONETARY reasons..

Nice detective work Greg...

Also that symbol I believe is used for a County in New York. Duchess county ??Also Pennsylvania state seal uses that too...If Tom KNEW where the troops came from he could maybe even link it to that area.although I almost WONDER if the PAYROLL could maybe of been brought to the fort by a Commerce representative???Its origins can go as far back as the 1830s in washington..

If it is the Tennessee state seal and it VERY WELL could be ...I think Toms has the whole motto on one rosette..If he finds the other one on the site I believe it will be the same Symbol.

So many questions about finds,, that's the fun part..

Glad you brought this up Greg..

Also on a side Note I have seen those Rosettes 'silvered' dug over the years with sheath of wheat in middle in books and magazine's but never studied them enough to notice if they have plow and or barge included..

Symbolism is EXCITING...Did you Know a sheaf of wheat can represent the body of Christ too??Although I'm sure Toms doesn't mean that or Maybe it did??LOL!!!!Back in the 1700s and 1800s there was alot of HIDDEN meanings only visible for the ones IN THE KNOW..


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2018 08:20PM by Keith Southern.

Yes I remember my first great finds also and don't remember what had for lunch , except probably not that great trying to remove salt from diet................but lately have not hunted much.
The NOX hype is still up in the air at this time, a good detector well lot of good detectors out there.

You might be right, but I believe the Rosette in Tom's display case clearly depicts the upper half of the Tennessee State Seal--the plow and the wheat sheaf. I think the Rosette was one of a pair (possibly matched like you suggested) manufactured for a specific individual, and probably only that single set was made. If it was a private commission, that might make it even harder to link it to the original owner. On the other hand, if it was a private commissioned article, that would suggest that the owner was a person of means, perhaps an officer.

I find it quite possible the Rosette adorned an officer's horse, and that possibility, coupled with the information about where it was lost, personnel data regarding those assigned to Ft. Meade and so forth, MIGHT actually lead to identification of the military man who lost it. I don't know if cavalry were assigned to Ft. Meade, but that's where I would start looking--with officers, then working on down, looking for someone from Tennessee.

Another possibility is the Rosette(s) were a hand-me-down, passed from a father/uncle who served in an earlier military field, like the Creek Wars, or War of 1812. Both occurred after Tennessee became a state in 1796, so the State Seal would have existed after that time.

The personnel roster at Ft. Meade should still be in print somewhere.

I do have one question for Tom, however: What is the earliest official US site occupation? My guess is the Rosettes are earlier than the third period of occupation.

I'll try to work on this a bit more from time to time, and see what I can come up with. I'm kinda curious now.

" Tennessee:

Aggregate: A total of 1,651 men from Tennessee served in Florida during 1836-1838.

Units:

Gen. Armstrong's Brigade of Tennessee Mounted Volunteers, 1836-1837. (including the 1st and 2nd Regiments of Tennessee Mounted Volunteers.)

Major Lauderdale's Battalion of Tennessee Volunteers, 1837-1838. "

Do you think toms Wheat is sitting on a flat boat barge???

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

It'd be a pretty rare thing that both were lost at the same time, and place.

The rosette was found on top of a hill. (Which.... there are not many hills in Florida). The rosettes location was almost dead-center of Officers Quarters. Ft. Meade commenced occupation on Dec 13, 1849. George G. Meade found the location to be ideal...... and Gen. Twiggs named it after George G. Meade. The 3rd Seminole War emanated from this 'hill'......... through 1858.

But.............. (I have a problem). No credit (nor accreditation) was given to this geographic/topographically-golden location PRIOR to 'famous' Meade 'discovery'. I have found more than enough implements in the dirt that irrefutably suggest prior activity....... on the top of this 'hill'. Approx 800-yards to the ENE was a Indian home site consisting of approx. 820 substantial log cabin homes. . . . . . . that was (2nd Seminole Indian War) burned down to the ground in April, 1834. I believe this Indian home site (at minimum) dates back to the 1790's. U.S. Presidents visited these Indians throughout history (especially 1817/1818). It was a Indian Hqtr's site. Today........ Ft. Meade High School is built on Top-Dead-Center of these remnants. This is why I'm certain that the top of this particular 'hill'....... indeed DID have plenty of activity PRIOR to "Meade Fame". I have found implements that were dropped within the span of years of 1831-1838.

All of this reminds me of the exact same politics of St. Augustine, FL. Oldest city in the United States. Founded in 1565. Which is "wrong". Catholicism "Founded" it in 1565...... which were the Spanish. BUT........ what/who was there BEFORE 1565. THE FRENCH!!!!! (( Of which....no credit is given to!! )) WHY!!!

" In 1837, General Jessup and the Secretary of War Joel Poinsett asked the Governor of Tennessee to raise Tennessee Volunteers to assist Gen. Jessup in the Florida campaign, but he refused because of the 1836 problems unless the government could give him assurances that the problems wouldn’t be repeated. Former President Andrew Jackson, now retired to the Hermitage, wrote to the Secretary that Major William Lauderdale would be the best man to raise the necessary troops to assist Jessup. Major Lauderdale, who had recently been convalescing in the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina, returned and raised five companies of 100 men each to make the trip to Florida and aide in the Seminole War. Major Lauderdale reached Florida in November 1837 and reported to Jessup. "

Perhaps, US officers involved in the earlier campaigns had reconned the terrain, and noted that it was suitable for a future base of operations, if ever necessary. They probably suspected future uprisings would occur, and I doubt General Meade rode straight to the spot without any prior knowledge of the terrain. I'll bet when he was sent there, he communicated with officers who had been there in the past, and one of them suggested that locale for his fort site.

I think the clue lies within the campaign that resulted in the Seminole Village which was burnt in 1834. After the village was burnt, do you know how long the soldiers stayed in the vicinity? There's a good chance they used the area as a base of operations themselves, especially since it was an Indian Headquarters, and there was probably a couple of very good reasons the Seminole chose it as such--good water, terrain suitable from a tactical point of view, lots of food, etc.. It must have taken a sizeable number of soldiers to burn a Seminole village of 820 cabins--potentially that would have been a village consisting of at least a couple thousand people. Could be, they stayed a significant amount of time after destroying the village.

Anyway, hope this helps.

HELPFUL!!!

Right now....... I have no evidence to suggest that the troops stayed..... after burning the 820 log cabin homes. I'm willing to bet....... there remained TOO many Indians at large. I'll continue to research; however! Thanks!