Has the Equinox made all single vlf machines obsolete??

It only obsoletes single frequency units that it can better in a given situation like depth, separation , discrimination, target ID but any unit that does anyone of these better is not obsolete i am quite sure there are many single frequency units that are deeper so they can not be obsolete as without these units we could not find those deeper targets, to truly make single frequency units obsolete the Equinox has to beat all of them at everything.

-------------------------------------------------------
> XRay,
> Nope, not a librarian. I would be an ugly girl.
>
>
> therover61,
>

>
> Dean

Librarians don't have to be girls, and I've never encountered a girl named Dean, so we have no gender issues here.

Same old argument since the Fisher CZ's and the Minelab's Explorers came out with multi frequency units in the 90's and single Frequency haven't gone anywhere. or are you talking about a detector that can change frequency's like the new Equinox? What got me the most is when I went to buy a new coil cover for my Excalibur 2 and it was 30.00 USD WTF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2018 01:11PM by u2robert.

For me, I recently had a Deus for over a year and a F-75 [and a Tesoro], I still used my Ace 400 more than any of them and the reason is simple - I keep it in my truck all season long, so any time I want to impulse detect I do, its there.
I would not feel comfortable leaving a $1K detector in my truck full time, never have and never will.
Also greatly prefer the 400 for tot lots and dry sand at the beach. Simple to operate, a coin/jewelry magnet down to 6" or so, and depth or even target ID not critical at those places.
Only thing I wish it had is a LED backlight, other than that to me it is a near perfect detector for casual detecting.

Now, when I specifically want to go out detecting, or when I find a potential hotspot with the 400 that I want to cultivate a bit more [or revisit one that has already produced], thats when I'll take a better detector for a ride with me.

I have no reason to suspect things would be any different if I had a Nox, so personally, my Ace at least will never be obsoleted - I love the damn thing.
The Racer 2 ? We'll have to see about that, I got it late last summer and barely have any time on it.
AT Pro I don't anticipate going anywhere, I use it exclusively for water and though I would certainly dunk a Nox when and if I get one, it would be an H2O backup unless it is dramatically better.
I'm not the kind of guy who likes to scoop a 2ft trench in the water or chase elusive micro jewelry, I don't want to be finding BB's and fish hooks 14" down [even if that means missing out occasionally] ,,, So even if it is more sensitive and deep seeking in the water, that might be a detraction to me.

Land, another story.

bado1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The word creates anger and resentment because few
> seem to know the definition of the word.
>
> Obsolete: No longer in general use, fallen into di
> suse, of an old kind or style no longer used, old
> fashioned.
>
> From reading their posts, many posters here, and o
> n other forums, are under the misconception that i
> t means their old detectors will no longer work th
> e same due to being made "obsolete". Nope. Not wha
> t it means. When something becomes obsolete its be
> cause you don't use it any more or use it as much.
> It's a users own actions (or lack thereof) that ca
> use obsolescence of an item. Usually because somet
> hing serves that particular function "better" came
> along. "Better" is, of course, subjective. Be it l
> ighter, faster, more convenient, more ergonomic, w
> hatever. It is you, the user, that decides whether
> or not an item becomes obsolete. It does not mean
> that the "old" item functions less than it did bef
> ore.
>
> I won't open threads that are titled, " My obsolet
> e XYZ detector just found this!" The ignorant pos
> ter(s) is being spiteful and is trying to instigat
> e a negative response while, at the same time, rev
> ealing their own insecurity in their equipment. It
> is the user that decides the fate (obsolescence) o
> f their equipment.
>
> In my case the Equinox did indeed make some of my
> machines obsolete to me. I just wont use th
> em anymore because the Equinox does it as good or
> better in a more convenient package. It is a one s
> top shop. No more lugging around two or more detec
> tors and multiple coils.
>
> A funny thing... without you even realizing it, ma
> ny of your new detector purchases, regardless of b
> rand "obsoleted" your previous detector. How many
> of you bought a new machine and your old machine w
> as relegated to "back up" (obsolete) status and sa
> w very little use after that and then got sold bec
> ause it had become "obsolete" (unused)? Food for t
> hought.
>
> Dean


Well Said Dean,

Rich -

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

There's just no need for any of us to debate the semantics of Minelab's advertising rhetoric--and that's all it is. Nokta said similar things about the Impact. Advertising puffery has a long tradition...

For at least the time being the Nox seems to be making sales of other brand detectors obsolete..
My dealer just sold his first non Equinox detector since the Nox release..
He gets several inquiries every day for the Nox..

Maybe sales for other Detectors will start up again after the smoke clears..
If not, this Nox release might finally light a fire under the rest of the company’s keesters to bring out something meaningful..
Either that or they will have to cut their prices in half or more..

Bryan

We got a sale going on here today folks ! We got a door buster special on all obsolete detectors marked down 75%.......

OK OK I just couldn't help it I had too say it......

All said and done, there will always be a large market for sub $500 detectors.
I'd like to see stats how much $$ is made by all companies with under $500 vs over.
Minelab is nearly an exception, they have been catering to the high end most of their existence.

I would bet the industry as a whole makes more overall with the cheaper ones, simply because guys that will lay out $1K+ [or close to it] for a metal detector are a relatively small segment of buyers.

Could be wrong, stand ready to be corrected.

My 1st detector [Ace 250] was no where near that, it took me a full decade to break the $1K mark with the Deus, and I found $1,000's with the 250, paid for itself multiple times and then some.
Would never consider a 3030, and have recoiled from the Excalibur even though I'm a big water guy because of the price. Not exactly hurting for $$ either I've spent probably $3K in disposable income so far this year, you just have to weigh out what you are likely
to get out of any investment, and I don't see my detecting finds growing by leaps and bounds if only I lay out 1,2 or 3 grand - For me, its more finding unhammered hot spots, and you don't need the latest and greatest to do that.

[but granted, once you do find a nice spot, you need a superior machine to get the most out of them]

When I started had the ace 250, 1 month later went to AT PRO ,4 months later bought a deus. Why ? 1. I knew I loved finding relics. 2 . I wanted a machine that could give me more performance to do so. So moral of the story is some move faster than others. I do agree with you a 1000.00 bucks for a detector is a lot of money.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2018 04:21AM by calabash digger.

Xray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All said and done, there will always be a large ma
> rket for sub $500 detectors.
> I'd like to see stats how much $$ is made by all c
> ompanies with under $500 vs over.
> Minelab is nearly an exception, they have been cat
> ering to the high end most of their existence.
>
> I would bet the industry as a whole makes more ove
> rall with the cheaper ones, simply because guys th
> at will lay out $1K+ [or close to it] for a metal
> detector are a relatively small segment of buyers.
>
> Could be wrong, stand ready to be corrected.
>
> My 1st detector [Ace 250] was no where near that,
> it took me a full decade to break the $1K mark wit
> h the Deus, and I found $1,000's with the 250, pai
> d for itself multiple times and then some.
> Would never consider a 3030, and have recoiled fro
> m the Excalibur even though I'm a big water guy be
> cause of the price. Not exactly hurting for $$ eit
> her I've spent probably $3K in disposable income s
> o far this year, you just have to weigh out what y
> ou are likely
> to get out of any investment, and I don't see my d
> etecting finds growing by leaps and bounds if only
> I lay out 1,2 or 3 grand - For me, its more findin
> g unhammered hot spots, and you don't need the lat
> est and greatest to do that.
>
> [but granted, once you do find a nice spot, you ne
> ed a superior machine to get the most out of them]

When I toured the First Texas factory in late 2016...there were dozens of pallets with F75...T2...Greek Series etc....all shrink wrapped and ready to load onto trucks. It was an awesome sight to behold seeing all those Fisher and Teknetics detectors being loaded up.

Then I saw the loading section for Bounty Hunter which was just mind boggling. There were 10X as many pallets of Tracker 4, Pioneer 505, and Gold Diggers ready to be shipped.

The people buying these $75-$250 detectors they saw at their their local Wal-Mart or Costco have no idea the Nox even exists.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

calabash digger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I started had the ace 250, 1 month later wen
> t to AT PRO ,4 months later bought a deus. Why ? 1
> . I knew I loved finding relics. 2 . I wanted a
> machine that could give me more performance to do
> so. So moral of the story is some move faster than
> others. I do agree with you a 1000.00 bucks for a
> detector is a lot of money.....

Granted, alot of guys make their upgrade path alot quicker than I did, and some never do.
I almost never did cause I was quite happy with the 250 for the detecting that I did, and I was content to only dig 6" deep holes.
When I finally sold my 250 [after getting a 400] on craigslist, ran into the guy I sold it to 4 months later at a beach and he had a 3030.

I like to see that kind of passion and investment in hope, but very few guys will rise to your level of commitment that it takes to master multiple machines.
I never will, I seriously doubt it. Never even gave the Deus half a chance - Not even sure exactly why, job/family commitments, other hobbies ect limits the time I can put into detecting, so I figured the time put in to learning a new detector could
better be spent swinging something I already knew very well, the 400. But bottom line for me, I enjoy detecting and I have had some great finds, and I have the desire to find more. So as far as that goes, the best detector for me is the one I will use the most, regardless of brand or capabilities.

If the bar indeed has been [or will be] raised on detectors across brands and lines with the Nox, and I hope that it will, thats a good thing for all as it can only spur competition and innovation for the next big thing.
I'm fond of Garretts but I never considered myself brand loyal, I think you can safely say the same. You [anyone] would be doing a disservice to yourself and passion if you handcuffed yourself to a particular brand for whatever reasons.

Xray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> calabash digger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When I started had the ace 250, 1 month later w
> en
> > t to AT PRO ,4 months later bought a deus. Why ?
> 1
> > . I knew I loved finding relics. 2 . I wanted
> a
> > machine that could give me more performance to d
> o
> > so. So moral of the story is some move faster th
> an
> > others. I do agree with you a 1000.00 bucks for
> a
> > detector is a lot of money.....
>
> Granted, alot of guys make their upgrade path alot
> quicker than I did, and some never do.
> I almost never did cause I was quite happy with th
> e 250 for the detecting that I did, and I was cont
> ent to only dig 6" deep holes.
> When I finally sold my 250 [after getting a 400] o
> n craigslist, ran into the guy I sold it to 4 mont
> hs later at a beach and he had a 3030.
>
> I like to see that kind of passion and investment
> in hope, but very few guys will rise to your level
> of commitment that it takes to master multiple mac
> hines.
> I never will, I seriously doubt it. Never even gav
> e the Deus half a chance - Not even sure exactly w
> hy, job/family commitments, other hobbies ect limi
> ts the time I can put into detecting, so I figured
> the time put in to learning a new detector could
> better be spent swinging something I already knew
> very well, the 400. But bottom line for me, I enjo
> y detecting and I have had some great finds, and I
> have the desire to find more. So as far as that go
> es, the best detector for me is the one I will use
> the most, regardless of brand or capabilities.
>
> If the bar indeed has been [or will be] raised on
> detectors across brands and lines with the Nox, an
> d I hope that it will, thats a good thing for all
> as it can only spur competition and innovation for
> the next big thing.
> I'm fond of Garretts but I never considered myself
> brand loyal, I think you can safely say the same.
> You [anyone] would be doing a disservice to yourse
> lf and passion if you handcuffed yourself to a par
> ticular brand for whatever reasons.


Well said. Up grading detectors kinda becomes a sickness. Like rifles...I now have (high $) rifles that shoot more accurately than I can shoot them. Yet, I have put more meat in the freezer over the years with a run of the mill Remington or Winchester than with anything else. Always the quest for something we believe to be better, I guess.

As you stated, Xray...finding new spots or un-hammered spots, and having more time to hammer them, would put more finds in our pouches then a new machine.

All that being said, though, the new tech sure is fun. So is learning it.

Dean

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pasttom Wrote:
Thanks fo
> r
> > the time and effort you clearly invested and shared with us.
>
>
> Agreed

> Shoveler shouldn't get his coil all puckered up and just watch the ding dang video.

Or just move on, don't understand the bring out the pitchforks villager mentality when someone makes a video? This ain't HBO, if you don't like it, don't watch it, no harm, no foul.

If you think they didn't do it they way you'd like to see it, make your own, simple as that.

Just watch and see how many on the bandwagon keep other VLF detectors, as well as the Equinox.

If they made VLF's obsolete there's no reason to own both.

Equinox owners would only own non-VLF machines in their "arsenals".

Unless they simply enjoy detecting, and find other machines a pleasure to use. Then it's OK

Those marketing guys did their job by coming up with the "obsolete" nonsense.
It's got customers and non-customers discussing their product ad nauseum.

dave_e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just watch and see how many on the bandwagon keep
> other VLF detectors, as well as the Equinox.
>
> If they made VLF's obsolete there's no reason to o
> wn both.
>
> Equinox owners would only own non-VLF machines in
> their "arsenals".
>
> Unless they simply enjoy detecting, and find other
> machines a pleasure to use. Then it's OK
>
> Those marketing guys did their job by coming up wi
> th the "obsolete" nonsense.
> It's got customers and non-customers discussing th
> eir product ad nauseum.

I no longer own any other VLF than the Nox... also have a E-trac (fbs), and GPX (PI). That's what works for me. The Nox 800 has 5 VLF channels which satisfies all of my VLF needs.

The whole idea of good marketing, from any company, is to have both customers and non customers discussing your product...ad nauseum. Whether you are in to ML or not, you have to admit it is pretty clever "nonsense".

Dean

Agree completely, analog audio with its subtle clues is hard to beat. Combined with good iron disc machines such as the LST, 1270 and even the little 1236 to name just a few are still viable today.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

It being labeled as what it was " the tech" not a marketing ploy.

Some may think so.

Some wonder IFs.

Wonder if we strapped 11" DD coils to all metered VLF detectors made today and compared ( using any all all each detector modes /settings ( huntable,) over a say 10,000 nonferrous targets in the wild located with Equinox and then give the other detectors a go.
Would would be the result?

I think I know.

On targets Now some of these other VLF metered detectors would definitely see a lot of the targets.
On targets Some of these targets Equinox would be giving clear dig me tone, and some of the detectors would be giving questionable dig me signal.
On targets Some of the detecfors would be giving nothing signal,wise to denote nonferrous exist period.

Now could another detector see a target possibly where Nox doesn't? Maybe
But percentage wise/trend wise I think Nox would be a clear leader.

And this above has nothing tondo with target ID, just tell me nonferrous exist.

If we add in target ID, Nox still ain't no slouch and would finish strong.
Those targets near ferrous, watch how Nox performs here in this department, and watch how the single freqers do.

A lot of the folks making statements about this topic, seems many have not used Nox.
I have.
It is for real.
One little scenario here to drive home my point. If using field 2 or park 2 detect modes using Equinox 800 at speed 7. If Imget a signal, and drop speed to 6 and target chops or speed 5 it disappears, put one of the single freq metered detectors over one of these and watch what happens, even the mighty Deus. Just one example. Would have to dig deep to find a single freq detector wearing 11" coil to hit one of those targets. Not an exaggeration either. Believe me.

Folks can use what they want. But credit must be given where credit is due too.
And that's my story and I am sticking to it.

Arm chair detectorist out. Lol



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2018 09:30AM by tnsharpshooter.

But is the Nox as deep as anything else out there ? Vista Gold Gain ? Vista Warrior ? Relic striker ? if its not then those detectors are not obsolete i would like to see how the Nox does on Keith's test pieces.

sanjuro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But is the Nox as deep as anything else out there
> ? Vista Gold Gain ? Vista Warrior ? Relic striker
> ? if its not then those detectors are not obsolete
> i would like to see how the Nox does on Keith's te
> st pieces.


Here is what was said.

This copied from first post in Equinox thread here on this forum. Keyword in sentence - potential, and notice it says VLF detectors folks have been using for decades.
So who has been using a Deus for decades? It ain't been out that long has it?
You see folks have read.
Seems some folks have misinterpreted what was said exactly.
And went into tirades and posting stupid stuff.

"EQUINOX, with Multi-IQ, has the potential to obsolete all the traditional VLF detectors that enthusiasts have been using for decades.” –Minelab Electronics
Pty Ltd."

I will say, if we look at even some of the more modern single freq detectors used today, in certain aspects of these even- they have been obsoleted with Equinox.
So a partial obsoleting is being done here.
But this is just my opinion.

To add here.
It is my opinion, the Xp Deus obsoleted some detectors too. Xp never told us though. But it did under certain detecting applications. When it first came out too with first version software.
For coil size 9" DD coil.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2018 12:36PM by tnsharpshooter.

So it 'MAY' obsolete my CZ6a ?

For me...I don't think so. But my CZ6a is like a family member at this point so that's the main reason it won't. The NOX will hunt better in lots of applications that CZ of mine will struggle in. That's a fact.

But you are correct tnsharp....the actual Minelab statement has been taken out of context.

Bottom line is, the statement is factual since it will make some 20 year old units obsolete...but then again, some were already 'obsolete' prior to the NOX.

Once the smoke clears, I can see one of the NOX 800's in my arsenal. I primary beach hunt so the NOX is most definitely at home there. I just hope I don't decapitate the control unit with my heavy sand scoop during a Noreaster !

I was just trying to add some sanity to this thread and to this subject and to this forum.

The eye candy evidently in the statement was the word obsolete.

But the word was used in a sentence with qualifiers.

Btw I copied this out of original Minelab Equinox thread here.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another thought; Is it a single frequency on the E
> Q that 'obsoletes' all other single frequency mach
> ines ....... or is it one of the multi-frequency o
> ptions that'll 'obsolete' all other single freq u
> nits?

Another nugget copied from original Equinox thread here.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the past/present...... Minelab has utilized a d
> ual-frequency triangular waveform with their Explo
> rer/CTX platforms........ with a somewhat semi/qua
> si-PI analyzation on the receive side of the house
> ............,,,,,,,,,,,,,, looking at only certain
> /timed/select/exacting snap-shot "portions" of the
> return/received signal. It is exactly this 'timed'
> analyzation (sequential......or otherwise) ......
> that would partially justify/qualify quasi-PI meth
> odology. In the present/future........ Minelab is
> accentuating/expounding upon this A-IP (ie Equinox
> ). Any time that you extrapolate your data (receiv
> ed and/or transmitted)..... in a time-domain......
> ...,,,,,,,,, you encroach/enter the realm of 'puls
> e' definition. In bad dirt........ it is plausible
> to see deeper ...and with better ID......utilizing
> this methodology....... than compared to single fr
> equency continuous-wave VLF.,.,.,., of which can o
> nly be attenuated by this bad dirt.
>
> Hence, my question; Why retain single-freq option(
> s)?

And one more passage copied from original Equinox thread.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With the Equinox nearing production-run........ (a
> nd subsequent product roll-out) in a few weeks....
> . (if all is still on-target)....... I retain one
> primary question: If the multi-freq option is the
> pinnacle performer; ........ What function/purpose
> /niche does retaining the option of single-frequen
> cy operation have....... other than a basis unto w
> hich to 'compare' ....and/or..... for old-school f
> olks?
>
> On another thought: Minelab has become substantial
> ly more 'interactive' (via social media resources)
> ..... as of recent. I applaud this paradigm-shift/
> 'awakening'.
>
> And yet on another note: Mark L/Minelab must prote
> ct their Artwork/Intellectual Property. Because of
> this ........ their graphs/charts....for explanati
> on purposes.... may appear to be 'broad/aggregate'
> (vs. exacting/precise). They are not perfectedly s
> pecific........ for this reason. I do not believe
> there is any malicious intent to 'deceive' or 'ben
> d-truth'. . . . . for the purposes of 'sales-pitch
> '. An engineer(s)...... most probably.....would no
> t do that. (However; a marketeer..... may otherwis
> e).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2018 04:54PM by tnsharpshooter.

Minelab actually said WILL obsolete

“EQUINOX, with Multi-IQ, will obsolete all the traditional VLF detectors that enthusiasts have been using for decades.” –Minelab Electronics Pty Ltd.

[www.minelab.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2018 06:07PM by sanjuro.

Two days ago my buddy found a 25 gram white gold necklace in a park. With an obsolete MXT!!!

calabash digger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We got a sale going on here today folks ! We got a
> door buster special on all obsolete detectors mark
> ed down 75%.......
>
> OK OK I just couldn't help it I had too say it....
> ..


Tried selling one of those obsolete detectors lately? Fire sale is about right

Two things that make older metal detector designs still a viable detecting option. One is the ability of a person to research and door knock to get on virgin or near virgin hunting property. This alone will get you a lot more good finds than buying the latest and greatest machine will. The other is the fact that people are still losing stuff even as we speak. The latest tech may give you more of a chance to make a great find, but you still have to put your coil over the target.

Shakydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Two things that make older metal detector designs
> still a viable detecting option. One is the abilit
> y of a person to research and door knock to get on
> virgin or near virgin hunting property. This alone
> will get you a lot more good finds than buying the
> latest and greatest machine will. The other is the
> fact that people are still losing stuff even as we
> speak. The latest tech may give you more of a chan
> ce to make a great find, but you still have to put
> your coil over the target.

I just brought that same point over on Friendly’s forum on the Hoover boys thread. I’m betting for a lot of people the Equinox will light up some of the same respective busted up parks they’ve been doing. Meanwhile a guy with an AT Pro that’s not afraid to do the Jehovah’s Witness and get permissions will constantly have fresh ground to hunt, so they won’t have to worry about unmasking when they can just move on. This is coming from someone that has an Equinox 800, it’s a good machine and I like it. But getting permissions is a way more valuable tool than an Equinox.

Why not just do both? Lets take a mediocre machine and run around and get all these great permissions. Why not just take a great machine and do the same thing? Metal detecting is a game of odds why wouldn't you want to increase those odds if your finances permit it?

calabash digger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not just do both? Lets take a mediocre machine
> and run around and get all these great permissions
> . Why not just take a great machine and do the sam
> e thing? Metal detecting is a game of odds why wou
> ldn't you want to increase those odds if your fina
> nces permit it?

+1

calabash digger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not just do both? Lets take a mediocre machine
> and run around and get all these great permissions
> . Why not just take a great machine and do the sam
> e thing? Metal detecting is a game of odds why wou
> ldn't you want to increase those odds if your fina
> nces permit it?

The answer is simple and you nailed one of them. Not everyone can afford one; half the people in my club are on fixed incomes and can barely justify buying a used AT Pro or other mid-range detector. And there will be some that can afford it but just won’t jive with it. The Deus is the perfect example of that. It has class leading performance but never reached any level of market saturation because a large portion of people that swung it wanted to wrap it around a tree.

Since I’ve gotten my Equinox 800, ive been marking all my hits with survey flags and then going over them with an F75+ and have yet to hit something with the Equinox the F75+ didn’t nail. On the flip side the F75+ has edged out the Equinox twice in depth running boost. I still think the Equinox is a bette4 machine for several reasons, but for $425 for a new F75+ with a 7 year warranty the price to performance can’t be beat. And I’m definitely not a brand loyalist, I’d swing anything if the price was right to performance.