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Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?

Posted by Shakydigger 
Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 01:33AM
In the distant past i used to beach hunt a lot with a CZ and did fairly well on gold rings in the wet sand but never found anything that I would call micro jewelry. I quit hunting in salt water when they started pumping sand out of the ocean to build up the local beaches. Now I have a Equinox and am wondering if working the towel line for micro jewelry might make beach hunting enjoyable again? Does anyone here have any experience hunting micro jewelry? Is there anyone out there who specializes in this type of detecting or is hunting for micro jewelry more of a theory?
Hunting for micro jewelry -
March 28, 2018 01:46AM
Tom's Beach Hunting video goes into it.


Rich -

_______________________________
Just one more good target before I go.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 02:21AM
I have tried this. I was spending the winter months in the Tampa area about 9 years ago. Read Tom's micro jewelry hunting article. Got a Gold Bug II (great machine) and in 4 different hunts I dug 367 targets and came out with no jewelry. Tiny shards of aluminum foil, metal etc. Nothing valuable. I was in the St. Pete area. That was my experience, someone else's may vary. Another problem is with your sand scoop. I had to line it with a small screen because the targets were so small.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 09:53AM
Recovery and patience..... lots of patience. Sifter really helps. You may want to change your term to small over micro. Even in beach mode ...... you get a lot of small foil and aluminum down in that 0-4 range. You really would have to do a pattern...... disc out a lot of the larger targets. You have to hunt for what you are hunting for. Ill tell you another problem ive found.

With the EQ ...... the term WET SAND may have changed. Its not longer close to the water. I noticed the other day we had one of those really WET foggy days coming off a high tide that came way up on the shore. I wanted to try the Field mode Tom recommended for dry sand....... it went nuts as did park mode. Seems the sand got LITE up with all that moisture..... until the sun came out and i was well away from where most of the people had been setting. A friend also noticed this and though he had a problem... maybe coil.

Dew
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 01:29PM
Lets face it one nice gold ring is worth mucho earrings and such.Large diamond earrings are far and few between...just too much small trash that imitates them...
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 01:56PM
Chains - even fairly large ones - are detected like “tiny jewelry”. Up to now, no wet salt beach machine has been very good at detecting them. The multifreaker machines from ML and Fisher loose these targets when they are balanced for salt. Available PI beach detectors have pulse delays too long (15-20 microseconds) to allow hearing the fast decaying response of the small low conductiors.

While the Nox should do very well on dry sand in various modes, I will be very interested to see if the Beach modes, especially Beach 2 can hear chains well.

The next possible solution to the chain problem would be a waterproof PI detector with very short pulse delay (less than 10 microseconds) and ideally, iron ID. Fisher’s new “Manta” project hints that this may be possible.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 02:33PM
When hunting the dry sand, you might want to not use beach mode and go with prospecting mode or field mode.

There is no point in using beach mode on the dry sand.

Prospecting mode would be the best choice for micro jewelry.

I made a tiny lightweight sifter with 1/4 inch mesh that clipped onto my belt. It made it a lot easier and faster to recover the target once it was dug.

I rarely hunt the dry sand anymore. I have much better luck on the wet sand and there's a lot less trash.

.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2018 03:00PM by Badger in NH.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 02:36PM
Blast from the past. Sort of

Pulse Devil

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 03:08PM
Let me tell you...... that really sounds great to just turn on 40Khz and go in the dry sand. But what im finding is ..... that sand isnt always as dry as you think it is. If it gets damp under the sun dried sand and stays damp..... it really lights the sand up in high freq..... as well as other modes. Park and Field can be real chatty sometimes. When we get waves the night before or a really high tide that creates a lot of mist or damp fog..... it can really wet the beach sand........ to the point you honestly are better off hitting it in beach 1. Im finding out there does seem to be differences in the modes... even when ran with all the same settings. I have dug enough foil lately to make quite a foil ball lol.

Rick..... beach 2 sounds like they turned down the sensitivity. You still hear the minerals and accumulation of very tiny foil/aluminum.... but its in the back ground. Switch to beach 1 and them come in clear. IMO you are better off turning down your sensitivity a little in beach 1. Cant say what will happen yet neck deep where you get more sediment or closer to the hard pan out there. You are right about PIs having that 15Us.... just to high..... but it makes um run smoother... again no one wonts to buy a machine that chatters a lot.....which makes the companies nervous about their investing in these type of machines even thou they know thats what its going to take.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 03:51PM
Reports posted on another forum a while back by a guy called LE JAG (who was a tester for Alexandre Tartar and the Manta team) spoke of Manta prototypes running smoothly in waves and backwash at 8 microseconds. If the Fisher machine does that, it will be a killer.

Here’s what he wrote in an ad where he had a Manta 3 prototype for sale - for $2000 - he sold it promptly!

P.S. he’s French English is not his First Language.

“Calibrated for low conductors, gold and platinum, among other
Delay 7us of 17 volts more sensitive, deeper and faster than Deepstar

Equipped with a coil, Manta, latest generation
she has one month, the quietest and most efficient on the market, all brands included.
(it will operate on TDI and Deepstar)

Connector Type TDI, it accepts all coils (mono) of TDI / GPX

Weight: 1.5 kg without battery that is worn at the belt
headphone jack and on / off switch on the battery pack (lipo) supplied charger
more than six hours of detection at full power.

Carbon Rod Anderson + extra cane down
braided nylon belt military style

All the possible settings and need a good PI
SAT speed, TX frequency, noise threshold, delay, volume,
sensitivity....

The delay was 7us , lets see gold ends
very thin rings, earrings, jewelry hollow that other detectors can not see
and of course, the wholesale jewelry it goes deeper

Ferrous recognition by a double beep well marked”

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 03:59PM
Here’s another post by LE JAG - detailing finding a thin chain in salt water....

“meanwhile, my last outing, a woman's bracelet
light, 4.2 gr 18 K
obtained in a compact and wet black sand, about 20/25 cm
a very light sound, 6.5 us !!!!!!!!!!
with a very slow sweep, gold digger mode

I do not know, if he saw the clasp 18k too
or one of the rings, since theoretically
on a bracelet or a chain the detector sees only a piece

on this specific case, I think there are only three detectors capable of taking this target
and not sure that the other two would have had

Many will be blown away by the performance of this machine
we get a sensitivity on gold that I have never seen
but again, we have to wait ...

I use detectors calibrate to less than 8 us
for several years, the modified 5c and the different version of Alexandre manta
if you have never used, a detector working at 7us and less
you have trouble visualizing what difference can make

I assure you, she is huge ...........:wink:”

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 05:39PM
Shakydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>..... Now I have a Equinox and am
> wondering if working the towel line for micro jewe
> lry might make beach hunting enjoyable again? Does
> anyone here have any experience hunting micro jewe
> lry? Is there anyone out there who specializes in
> this type of detecting or is hunting for micro jew
> elry more of a theory?

You're right: Machines like the CZ, and various other power-houses, are good for coin & ring sized objects. But will miss dainty earring hoops, earring studs, stick pins, fine chains and necklaces, etc....

My tests with the Nox on dry sand showed that it could find insanely small objects. That would be like, for instance , the size of an ant (smaller than a grain of rice). While at the same time having similar ability for coin-sized objects, as you'd expect from your power house machines. At least this was my thoughts after 2 hrs. dry sand comparing with a friends 3030 . Could still do more tests, but I have since sold the machine.

It was an interesting test in the dry sand at this beach. HOWEVER : The downside was: It meant having to dig countless teensy foil bits, that were no bigger than ant to grain-of-rice sized.

Where I'd REALLY like to test this out, is NOT at the "towel line" on dry sand , but rather: On the wet sand after erosion. Because that washes away all the light foil type objects. Thus any "grain of rice" and "ant sized" objects can not be foil. There have been times, in such erosion conditions, that we have seen necklaces RIGHT ON TOP OF THE GROUND (eyeballed). Yet when we sweep over them, they don't give us a peep. So it makes me wonder if there's not micro-jewelry in these coin pockets we're harvesting, that we simply don't see.

Did not get to test the nox on the wet sand yet. Perhaps the same dry sand trick I was doing, can not be replicated on the wet salt minerals ? I dunno.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 06:10PM
I am very comfortable with small but I've found that the move from Small to Micro is a big leap in any medium I am hunting in, be it sand, wood chips or turf. The limited ability of my G2 and F75 to hit on micro jewelry and my last couple of outings where I've focused on this has really emphasized that boundary. And I have questioned that focus myself. Do I need to find that tiny stud earring, if I did, would the stone be worth enough to cover the effort? In my situation, probably not. But the chains are a different story. The chain weight adds up to decent money pretty fast. My last little gold bracelet was a $100 bucks cash money even with the 15% cut the buyer takes. So the thought of a good chain or bracelet find is worth the continued Micro focus.

What I'm really wondering though, and what I've started looking at during my scouting trips to the jewelry counters is if most of these women's chains have a clasp or a clasp ring or a tag attached that might move it up into the small category when it comes to detection.

Anyway...

HH
Mike
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 07:11PM
Mike...... some of the even use SS springs which can help.

Thanks Rick for keeping us up to date. He confused me a little bit........ so the battery pack is worn on the belt? Is the machine WATERPOOF? So the machine is approximately 3 1/2 lbs its self coin included i wonder? Thats not bad considering the NOX weight is just a tad under 3 lbs..... which i assume is coil and shaft as well. It will be a very interesting machine Rick at that Us...... especially if its waterproof and we can distinguish a good bit of the iron. If he sold it for $2000 quite likely it will be in the CTX price range. BUT....... if its worth it salt worth every penny. Wet sand look out..... get you mucking boots one and start lifting those weights now. Hopefully Tom gets to play with this one too.....now theres a testing id love to read about.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 28, 2018 10:43PM
The production mechanical design is completely different - more Fisher. The power module is for sure different. Not sure how many feet the rating is, but it is a serious WATER machine and Iam sure it will be not only adequate but seriously foolproof.

Maybe it would be a Oddlaug idea to save any tax refund you get. Fisher might surprise us.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 12:21AM
Tot lots i will look for micro jewerly , everywhere else no........ just small jewelry solid foil targets

Beaches are to trashy and just to time consuming for me.

Fyi micro jewelry comes in at or near where salt comes in at



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2018 12:33AM by Rob in (ca).
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 01:02AM
Rob in (ca) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Beaches are to trashy and just to time consuming f
> or me.
>

Unless you're on the wet-salt beach after storm erosion has pulled out sand. Then there is zero of the small foil & light stuff. All that stuff gets washed out. Leaving only the more-dense heavy targets.

But you're right about the dry sand in heavily trodden zones up higher in the dunes: You can dig so much ant and grain of rice sized stuff, that starts to drive you crazy.

But as for the wet-salt surf zone: You're right: Those grain-of-rice and dainty necklace things might come in at the tuned-out salt range. So a person might not be able to use the dry-sand trick in the wet sand.

Hey Cal cobra, if we ever get some wet sand action, here's what we'll do: Get your nox set up so that we're reliably hitting regular coin sized items on the wet. Then , once those setting show us to be stable and non-chattery, then we will take ttteeennnssy bits of foil, rolled up so that they're the size of a pencil tip, & grain of rice, etc... Throw them on the ground and see if we get them.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 01:05AM
Tom,

I will be trying exactly that on Gulf and Atlantic beaches this spring - for 4 months or so. An comparing ther results with a T2, and a CZ.

Meanwhile, I will be hoping that ther real solution will appear before my Safari is over.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 04:20AM
Waste of time IMO, just hunt as usual and take it if it comes.
Why get a $1k detector and try to optimize it for the least valued items [outside of clad and junk] ?
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 10:43AM
Xray...... there will be people like you who feel that way. Hey just your style of hunting........ and yes it may be a waste of time for those who dont have the time to waste out there and want to cover more beach. By the way do you beach hunt and have you got a NOX? Most beach hunters knows there are chains and small stuff and lots of it we just miss and some of it has decent weight to it...... and believe it or not size......... finally we are getting there. We are curious whats there. This machine ISNT for everyone.... still takes a little more work i think than it could have.

Tom..... you are right at this point nearer the water and erosion are an excellent places to see how these machines do. Why jump into the trash and get frusterated...... learn how it reacts and what its telling you...... best test garden is found target where you want to look. Tom that stuff get washed out...... around me it then gets broken up into tiny pieces which concentrate in the low areas..... you can sure tell where movement has been with this machine..... she gets chatty a drop back in a little sensitivity helps and i dont think we are killing much depth. Its kind of like eroded areas on the beach...... all that light stuff gets blown right there.

Looking forward to more info Rick.... and hopefully Carl or Tom will pop in and give us a hint occasionally.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 12:47PM
Yep if you include gold chains worth the effort if you have the patience...once found a tiny expensive diamond tennis bracelet for a woman...actually came in a #2 on a whites spectrum so one can realize why they are so hard to pickup.....
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 01:28PM
I'm another beach hunter that is not into the micro hunting. If it falls through the scoop twice it is left as a sacrifice to the surf God's. Time vs coverage vs good finds. The closer to the water the better the good vs trash. The Sovereign and Excal are what I cut my teeth on. They do a great job of ignoring iron and caps and micro targets. The screen of the Nox is not needed by me either. Just my style.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 01:50PM
theres a guy who scrapes the gutters in new york for lost diamonds does that count
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 03:54PM
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 03:59PM
Xray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why get a $1k detector and try to optimize it for
> the least valued items [outside of clad and junk]
> ?

This is a very valid point. Because the dainty chains and earing studs and wire earings will have MINISCULE AMOUNTS OF GOLD. (ie.: very light). So what's the point ?? The only come-back line I can think of, is that sometimes there are diamonds mounted on a dainty earing. Or a diamond on a very dainty necklace pendant. However, the re-sale value of used diamonds is also not much. Unless they're approaching the half-carat size or more.

The bigger chains, that have more weight, begin to fall into the ranges that standard beach discriminators can pick up. Eg.: excal, sov, CZ, etc.... So a person might ask "What's the point ?" I guess for me, it's that if the cross-over can be done, in zones where no light stuff exists, WITHOUT compromising the normal coin-sized option ability, then .... might as well get some flitty stuff too.

Also: I hope to find out how well the nox does in nasty black wet salt minerals. There are sometimes sands where the regular machines are reduced to 0" to 2" depths.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 04:11PM
Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Xray Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Why get a $1k detector and try to optimize it for> the least valued items [outside of clad and junk ?
>
> This is a very valid point. Because the dainty chains and earing studs and wire earings will have MINISCULE AMOUNTS OF GOLD. (ie.: very light). So what's the point ?? The only come-back line I ca
> n think of, is that sometimes there are diamonds mounted on a dainty earing. Or a diamond on a very dainty necklace pendant. However, the re-sale value of used diamonds is also not much. Unless they'
> re approaching the half-carat size or more.>
> The bigger chains, that have more weight, begin to fall into the ranges that standard beach discriminators can pick up. Eg.: excal, sov, CZ, etc....> So a person might ask "What's the point ?" I gue
> ss for me, it's that if the cross-over can be done, in zones where no light stuff exists, WITHOUT compromising the normal coin-sized option ability, then .... might as well get some flitty stuff too.
>
> Also: I hope to find out how well the nox does in nasty black wet salt minerals. There are sometimes sands where the regular machines are reduced to 0" to 2" depths.


I haven't really been following this because I do very little beach detecting (although that will likely change now that I have the EQ800, BUT Tom Dankowski has repeatedly stated the reason for hunting micro jewelry isn't for the paltry amount of gold you'll dig, it's for the DIAMONDS. I thought he had an article on it, but this is the closest I could locate:

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]






Pretty sure he has an
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 05:04PM
dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Xray...... there will be people like you who feel
> that way. Hey just your style of hunting........
> and yes it may be a waste of time for those who do
> nt have the time to waste out there and want to co
> ver more beach. By the way do you beach hunt and
> have you got a NOX? Most beach hunters knows the
> re are chains and small stuff and lots of it we ju
> st miss and some of it has decent weight to it....
> .. and believe it or not size......... finally we
> are getting there. We are curious whats there.
> This machine ISNT for everyone.... still takes a l
> ittle more work i think than it could have.
>
Regardless of brand/model, my recommendation is its a waste of time, and yes I beach hunt else I likely would not be chiming in on a beach hunting thread.

I have found very small jewelry including studs and thin chains, nice when it happens but I wouldn't specifically go out looking for it ,,Which by nature would involve high sensitivity and other tweaks which might
alert you to every sliver of metal and also tend to cause alot of falsing.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 05:29PM
Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the reason for huntin
> g micro jewelry isn't for the paltry amount of gol
> d you'll dig, it's for the DIAMONDS.

Correct. The weights of intrinsic gold is a joke. A it would take 10 or 20 necklaces , or dainty bracelets, or dainty earings, to equal a single men's band. So that only leaves the diamonds as an objective.

But with all due respect for Tom D's article: I would think that would be a very small percentage of the micro-jewelry. Sure an occasional earring has a big stone in it.

And I have eyeballed a gold pendant , in a beach hole with a clad dime. That had micro-jewelry characteristics/weight. Which did indeed have a ~1/3 carat diamond in it. When I waived that in front of my Eagle SL II or XLT (I forget which I was using at the time) IT WOULD NOT EVEN HEAR IT. But I think this is a very small percentage of micro-jewelry , demographically speaking.

But if a person were in a beach erosion zone where all light stuff is gone, and where he wouldn't be compromising speed and depth on coin-sized objects, and can do-so simultaneously, then ..... what the heck ? Might as well investigate some of those flutters smiling smiley


Xray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ,,Which by natu
> re would involve high sensitivity and other tweaks
> which might
> alert you to every sliver of metal and also tend t
> o cause alot of falsing.

As for "every sliver of metal": This is true for most land hunting (where you'd be driven bonkers). And is true for the heavily trodden sand further back in the undisturbed dunes. You will be hearing teeennssy flecks of aluminum foil, etc... But for the wet sand erosion zone: There are times when all that light stuff is gone, but NOT the denser gold (whether it be micro, or not micro, they're heavier than aluminum foil dits)

And as for falsing: Yes: I question whether the dry sand trick I did (where it seemed to do everything simultaneously and flawlessly) could be replicated on the wet salt or not. Perhaps the setting changes , that allow that, will likewise start to knock out teensy dainty micro-jewelry.

Will someday hopefully hook up with Cal Cobra to test that .
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 05:54PM
I found a gold chain on the beach of a fresh water lake with my F75.

I forget the settings I used because it was years ago, I’m pretty sure I posted it here along with the settings.

It would only detect it with those specific settings/search mode, no other search mode and combination of settings would detect it, that I do recall.
Re: Hunting for micro jewelry, theory or reality?
March 29, 2018 06:05PM
Tom to be truthful if you’re beach hunting why even bother digging silver or coins higher then gold?

I mean who really cares about beach toasted coins when the objective is to dig gold?

We need a good erosion event.
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