Why is there a Tom_in_CA?

First with this post, I am not asking for anything. This is just a statement. Nothing more. I am not going into any specifics and I am not talking about behavior of certain individuals.

Speaking for myself, I have locked horns with Tom on different occasions. I don't always agree with his views either and sometimes, he down right irritates me. Then I thought, "Why is there a Tom_in_Ca? Why do we need skeptics?"

The answer I came up with was quite surprising. As I get older, I am noticing that, things in nature and life, tend to push and make thing "in balance".

For instance: If it gets too hot and humid, it rains. If it gets to cold and windy, the wind pushes a low pressure system into the area and things calm down. However man made items are designed with balance in mind to contend with the laws of nature. For example, we add a temperature switch to shut-off a motor if it gets too hot.

Tom, or a skeptic, is like this switch. If something gets to far out of line, a skeptic comes in to bring things back into balance. In a way, we need skeptics to bring us(as a whole) back to reality sometimes when our dreams get too big.

I'm not advocating nor condoning anyone's actions here, just adding a different perspective to things.

Tom-Dick or Harry lives in another state where conditions differ and may partially be an answer to your question...In military spent some time in Texas and was a different world from Pa. Keep this in mind when reading posts and opinions...not playing on a level field comes to mind...

Hey there beyonder. Yes, I'll admit I have a few bees-in-my-bonnet on forums. As it concerns our hobby. Almost to a fault (I admit).

Namely.: 1) The legalities issues (the psychology fascinates me). And 2) The treasure-legends psychology ( or dowsing, etc...)

And yes: It draws the skittish back to center. And yes , the skepticism of how ghost -story treasure legends start, draws those back to center perhaps ?

I suppose I should care less . I've got so many sites I don't even have time to pursue. So why chime in on those posts ? Why not: let the skittish stay home "lest someone gripe". Or let the dreamy legend chaser stay in their delusions.

But... for some reason, I get intrigued with "why do people think this way?" and "what do they say in the face of counter points?"

It's all a matter of perspective. I don't see Tom as a sceptic. He has his views based on his experience. He is a very accomplished detectorist.
Your observation is correct. The natural way of the world is to find balance.

Dean

I will always have a concern with anyone who encourages naïve tourists to break the law in foreign countries. Recognizing that things are different in other places works both ways.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
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> Hey there beyonder. Yes, I'll admit I have a few
> bees-in-my-bonnet on forums. As it concerns our h
> obby. Almost to a fault (I admit).
>
> Namely.: 1) The legalities issues (the psychology
> fascinates me). And 2) The treasure-legends psych
> ology ( or dowsing, etc...)
>
> And yes: It draws the skittish back to center. A
> nd yes , the skepticism of how ghost -story treasu
> re legends start, draws those back to center perha
> ps ?
>
> I suppose I should care less . I've got so many si
> tes I don't even have time to pursue. So why chim
> e in on those posts ? Why not: let the skittish
> stay home "lest someone gripe". Or let the dreamy
> legend chaser stay in their delusions.
>
> But... for some reason, I get intrigued with "why
> do people think this way?" and "what do they say i
> n the face of counter points?"

On the civil war gold thread, there's to be an almost "I told you so" attitude now that ur "timed-out". I felt it unfair so I posted this to try to show that, someone can disagree and they aren't exactly a monster for doing it.

I am rather proud to have someone point out the legalities of metal detecting and I hope you never stop and when you do, I hope someone with your same vigor continues to do so. As for your scrutiny of treasure legends, while I disagree with you on some, keep going!

I'm sure we will lock horns again, but as a potential sparring partner of the typed words go, you are quite the challenger!

Wow.must have taken that as a fictional Tom...in any case keep my post in mind when reading opinions tests and likewise..

Tom in CA has become my secret weapon. Whenever gold hunting comes up on some of the forums he comes onto the thread and shuts down the conversation. I cared at first. Now I don't. The more people he can talk out of jewelry hunting the better as far I'm concerned, so more power to him.

HH
Mike

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
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> .... I felt it unfair so I posted this to try to sh
> ow that, someone can disagree and they aren't exac
> tly a monster for doing it.
>
....

Yeah, I was bummed they stopped me from harassing Finder-keeper's make-believe civil war treasure. But in retrospect, I *was* sort of hard on him, haha

Mike Hillis Wrote:
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> ... Whenever
> gold hunting comes up on some of the forums he com
> es onto the thread and shuts down the conversation
> .

Hi Mike. You mean the "trick" for gold jewelry being to: Go into junky parks and dig low conductors till one's arms fall off ? Or the notion that some people have tried to advance: That a person can learn to tell gold and aluminum apart ?

Either one, Yes, those are other topics I find intriguing.

Brian cal-cobra says if I could have more time hitting our back-pocket sites, if I'd stay out of md'ing forum debates, haha (He's probably right, doh!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2018 05:34PM by Tom_in_CA.

I always enjoy Toms posts on this and other forums...as a matter of fact when somebody brings up a topic of detecting a place where theres no written laws about detecting or something to that effect theres always that guy who is like write a letter to city hall and ask if its ok. I just sit there and wait for his reaction. I also like his comments about us northeastern guys when we find a large copper meanwhile he has 2 gold coins for every largie I've ever found. I think hes an asset on the forums and entertaining for sure!

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Brian cal-cobra says if I could have more time hit
> ting our back-pocket sites, if I'd stay out of md'
> ing forum debates, haha (He's probably right, doh
> !)

There’s a reason Tom’s nickname is Mr Kill-joy

You and I have been on Treasurenet about the same amount of time, but your 3 posts shy of 13,000 posts, while I have a staggering 800...are you sure you’re not retired?

HERE NOW!!!----Ya'll stop beatin up on mah boy Tom!-----I think he's right on the verge of tellin me the true story on how he finds all those gold coins.----He might clam up & I never will know!-----And then there's the "adventures of "Tom & Brian"---I love hearing about them.---Makes me feel young again!

Here's to Mr. Kill-joy, I like the guy.

I don't consider him a skeptic. I'd describe him as more of a common-senstic. Even when we've occasionally disagreed, I've always appreciated the logic in his viewpoints.

Newbies especially are often skittish about the legalities and tons of them come to the forums for guidance. Tom has done the hobby a major service by the many folks he has undoubtedly discouraged from swatting those hornet nests. When Tom dies, city halls around the country will be unable to account for the huge influx of people asking for what the late Mr. Kill-joy often referred to as "princely permissions" As one public spot after another gets posted with specific "no metal detecting" signs, we'll look back fondly on the days before Tom died. Back when someone took the time to dissuade the skittish from getting city hall to address those "pressing permission questions"

The dude has professional writing skills to boot. He's one of less than a handful of people on any forum that I'll read anything he posts just because he is the author.

Hey guys, thanx for all the kind words !

Speaking of kill joys, this same thread I posted on Tnet was taken down. No reason given.

Beyonder, I was unaware that you'd posted the same musings on T'net.

I guess that since I had just been overly harsh on finders-keepers, thus leading to my time-out, that they just didn't want anything that appeared to go against a moderators decision, to be posted. At any other time, if someone bolsters another member, or critiques another member, it's probably not an issue.

What sorts of replies did your post generate before it was taken off ?

As for the finders-keepers civil war treasure thread: Other posts were taking him to task too. I wasn't the only one. But I admit that I was the most boisterous and un-relenting . Doh ! :/

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder, I was unaware that you'd posted the same
> musings on T'net.
>
> I guess that since I had just been overly harsh on
> finders-keepers, thus leading to my time-out, that
> they just didn't want anything that appeared to go
> against a moderators decision, to be posted. At
> any other time, if someone bolsters another member
> , or critiques another member, it's probably not a
> n issue.
>
> What sorts of replies did your post generate befor
> e it was taken off ?
>
> As for the finders-keepers civil war treasure thre
> ad: Other posts were taking him to task too. I w
> asn't the only one. But I admit that I was the m
> ost boisterous and un-relenting . Doh ! :/

The gov even posted on it, so they were aware of it. But I went to check it last night and it was gone. No explanation nothing. You had a lot of support there too. One guy, "Red something or other" was even threatening(basically saying if you don't like it tough I will do the same thing it was perceived by some as a threat) people if they talk bad about you. I called him out on it as no one said anything bad but i don't know what happened. Maybe he tried to threaten me.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
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> Speaking of kill joys, this same thread I posted o
> n Tnet was taken down. No reason given.




That happens all the time when TH goes off his meds or you say something he doesn't agree with.

Champ Ferguson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Speaking of kill joys, this same thread I posted
> o
> > n Tnet was taken down. No reason given.
>
>
>
>
> That happens all the time when TH goes off his med
> s or you say something he doesn't agree with.

I boycotted posting threads there for 30 days because he deleted one of my posts for no reason. Now he did the same thing again. A reason should be sent via PM so the person has a chance to make amends or defend themselves.

First, I like Tom. Always an excellent read, his stuff is. And, like many have said, his posts are usually filled with logic and common sense, in an age when logic and common sense are becoming less and less important, and in fact even viewed with hostility. We are living INCREASINGLY in what I like to call a "post-truth" world. In this world, "facts" are seen as "mean" and "biased" and "closed-minded;" the pursuit of/search for THE truth in any situation (whatever it might be) is being pushed aside, in favor of the view that there are multiple truths, and whatever one person feels is their truth, is to be accepted as being just as "valid" as any other truth. And if you don't agree, or ESPECIALLY if you try to argue to "disprove" someone's "truth," through debate and reasoning and logical discussion, then YOU are seen as the problem -- an intolerant, biased, closed-minded person deserving of ridicule and punishment. From that perspective, someone like Tom, who tries to "debate facts," will often be viewed in today's society as at best, a "contrarian," but more likely referred to by a number of other, far less-kind words. Sadly, the banishment of logic and debate and facts and truth, in the public square, will -- with certainty -- hasten the demise of Western Civilization. Enough of that, though; I'll get off my soap box...

Secondly, I totally missed the whole thing over on T'net. Can some one give me the "Cliff's notes" version of what this "finders keepers" person posted?

Steve

He claims to have found the "Dent's run" treasure. Yet he has no proof of any kind and when you press him for proof, he claims there are lawyers and such preventing him from disclosure. He gave a reveal date of May 15th. I don't know if he has or hasn't found it.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
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> No explanation nothing. You had a lot of suppo
> rt there too.

Beyonder, I owe you one. Thanx for all your kind words.

I perceive that TH'r (the mod) is just trying to keep everyone happy there. They have to allow the legend chasers and dowser guys to be un-questioned . Or in my case, not-attacked, doh!. So I suppose he was just doing his job . :/

Other forums, like this one, are populated more with persons who are not drawn into fairy tails, not skittish, etc...

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First, I like Tom. Always an excellent read, his
> stuff is. And, like many have said, his posts are
> usually filled with logic and common sense, in an
> age when logic and common sense are becoming less
> and less important, and in fact even viewed with h
> ostility. We are living INCREASINGLY in what I li
> ke to call a "post-truth" world. In this world, "
> facts" are seen as "mean" and "biased" and "closed
> -minded;" the pursuit of/search for THE truth
> in any situation (whatever it might be) is bein
> g pushed aside, in favor of the view that there ar
> e multiple truths, and whatever one
> person feels is their truth, is to be accepted as
> being just as "valid" as any other truth. And if
> you don't agree, or ESPECIALLY if you try to argue
> to "disprove" someone's "truth," through debate an
> d reasoning and logical discussion, then YOU are s
> een as the problem -- an intolerant, biased, close
> d-minded person deserving of ridicule and punishme
> nt. From that perspective, someone like Tom, who
> tries to "debate facts," will often be viewed in t
> oday's society as at best, a "contrarian," but mor
> e likely referred to by a number of other, far les
> s-kind words. Sadly, the banishment of logic and
> debate and facts and truth, in the public square,
> will -- with certainty -- hasten the demise of Wes
> tern Civilization. Enough of that, though; I'll g
> et off my soap box...
>
>

Steve, thanx for the kind words.

There's a super fine line between pushing to get to the bottom of an md'ing issue (legends, legalities as-it-pertains to us, etc...) and trying to make someone "cry uncle". There's persons who know how to say "that's bologna" without getting timed-out. And then it's possible to over-step that fine line and "badger" someone. Oh well. The trick is to find that fine-line. I guess I got carried away with Finders-keepers.

After chasing a few such legends in my younger md'ing days, I just find it fascinating how that psychology works. So I pressed him to own-up to the easy tricks that such legends play on the mind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2018 04:25PM by Tom_in_CA.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> You and I have been on Treasurenet about the same
> amount of time, but your 3 posts shy of 13,000 pos
> ts, while I have a staggering 800...are you sure y
> ou’re not retired?


haha, well it's probably like you noted with Monte: After well over 50 yrs, and so many experiences and know-how to draw on, that he now loves to sit around and pick-brains back and forth with others.. I'm only at 42-ish yrs (just turned 57)., and ... yeah.... too much time to sit around and read forums. Doh !

STEVEG put it very eloquently about Tom and I agree 100% and it brought to mind what George Orwell in"1984" said:

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength

*From the Ministry of Truth

doc -- amazing, what Orwell laid out, so long ago. Visionary.

Steve