New Fisher Manta

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dew - about your question regarding short pulse de
> lays in running salt - Carl Moreland posted on ano
> ther forum that he has used a Manta at the beach i
> n Oregon in running surf at 6.5 microsecond pulse
> delay with good results.


Rick, thanks for all the updates you pass our way. You have a very good informational chain out there.

I don't know if it's allowed here but I believe Tom's forum will allow mention of other forum for information. If possible can you post Carl's post.

Thanks,

El

Cross-posting is generally frowned on - what somebody posts is their own work and better to link to it than copy it, here’s a link. See Post #20 - CarlNC is Carl Moreland, Emgineering Manager at First Texas (Fisher, Teknetics, Bounty Hunter).

[www.treasurenet.com]

I have been tracking the Manta since a post on Carl’s Geotech forum back in the summer of 2015

[www.geotech1.com]

You might also have a look at a thread I started last year called “Let’s design the world’s best beach detector”

[www.findmall.com]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Thanks Rick. The link is what I was interested in not copied post. Should have said link instead of post.

El

El - after I posted the links, I re-read your post - it was pretty obvious you wanted the link - sorry about the etiquette lecture! Lol.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Rick...... looking at a wet sand killer i hope....... but there is as much stuff in the water..... and theres a lot of sand to cover. There are people going to shy away from this machine...... I hope. We have people now with the Nox not wanting a machine that is sensitive enough to find stuff that will fall thru the scoop. If that happens what do we do? build a better scoop or method to capture it. I dont mind a machine being able for the average Joe to hunt with it....... but a few of us would like a little hotter machine. Not everyone will want a PI...... so make it for those who do. Im in line for this one....... its going to be interesting.

With a PI, you can just up the pulse delay and the small stuff disappears- WITHOUT a reduction in depth! The FPI (I will call it that from now on, until FT marketing decides on a name) also will likely have a Self Adjustment Threshold (SAT) adjustment to play with.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2018 09:40PM by lytle78.

That delay makes a huge difference....... dont most of the PIs now offered for beach hunting run a Us 15 and above? Now you are talking 7ish and those who choose to chase just the large stuff can. We will have a lot more control of the target choice and it should really have an impact on the wet sand hunters. Its always been........ get to the beach with a PI and ooops grabbed the wrong machine today..... theres a cut but to much trash to hunt it with a PI. Maybe this machine will change the perception that the only way to hunt a beach is with a VLF.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That delay makes a huge difference....... dont mos
> t of the PIs now offered for beach hunting run a U
> s 15 and above? Now you are talking 7ish and tho
> se who choose to chase just the large stuff can.
> We will have a lot more control of the target choi
> ce and it should really have an impact on the wet
> sand hunters. Its always been........ get to the
> beach with a PI and ooops grabbed the wrong machin
> e today..... theres a cut but to much trash to hun
> t it with a PI. Maybe this machine will change t
> he perception that the only way to hunt a beach is
> with a VLF.

at 7 us the number of gold targets increases
in a surprising way
not just on the depth / also the target sizes / not taken by other machines
more small rings in gold / platinum
which, more often have a stone !!!

of course, you dig more small aluminum targets
This is the flip side..........

but at the end of the day, the rings in your pocket
should quickly advise you the best choice

Just curious how it will react to hard pan being that sensitive? I say that because even with the Nox on the up ward slope we get concentrations of aluminum than generates noise.... but they arent big enough to really be picked up individually. Ive not used a lot of PIs ..... so how many coils might it have .... and will some of the other PI coils work? What kind of depth are we looking at on say an 8 gram gold ring? Im still looking for a small gold and chain killer in the water...... Nox is as good as the others but is still lacking IMO.

manta coils are specific manta
nobody starts at 7 us
with the good connector, possible to use another coil
but you will lose the 7/8/9 / and probably 10us .... see more
as much buy a dual PI

the 12 inches is planned for the first time
the best compromise to satisfy the most people

Then, there will be optional coils
10 inches would probably be better in the water
15 inches to make the surface, hunting recent losses .... // or to pick up a cannon, under the 40 inchs lol

I just put a picture on this link
my reccord featherweight 18k = 0.4 gr



[www.findmall.com]

on the same link a little higher,
there is a bracelt 18k = 4.2 gr / clasp 18k
obtained, in a very compact sand
a really light sound, barely audible



for having tested, the GPZ on the beach
,I am convinced
no other machine could have this target

she was lost in fashion discri / really limit

it gives correct sounds on much finer chains
and should be even better with smaller coils
on this type of target, less ground effect and even less noise ...

in short, all hopes are allowed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2018 06:33PM by LE.JAG.

LE JAG - your English is beautiful ...”all hopes are allowed”!!!!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

10" is kind of perfect for the water..... It may not cover as much sand, but it moves well and you can work with it easily even in swift water. The coil to shaft connector...... some put it on the back ..... i prefer it in the middle theres a whole lot less coil flip and it moves on the bottom better. Not nearly the wear on the ears either. 12" to me is a little large for the water and thats about where things start changing on a VLF it looses some sensitivity or you have to turn it down. 8" mono is a pretty nice coil for PPing..... just the right size to put in a dug hole. Those large coils can be difficult to PP with.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE JAG - your English is beautiful ...”all hopes a
> re allowed”!!!!


thank you
and thanks to the google translator

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 10" is kind of perfect for the water..... It may n
> ot cover as much sand, but it moves well and you c
> an work with it easily even in swift water. The
> coil to shaft connector...... some put it on the b
> ack ..... i prefer it in the middle theres a whole
> lot less coil flip and it moves on the bottom bett
> er. Not nearly the wear on the ears either. 12
> " to me is a little large for the water and thats
> about where things start changing on a VLF it loos
> es some sensitivity or you have to turn it down.
> 8" mono is a pretty nice coil for PPing..... just
> the right size to put in a dug hole. Those large
> coils can be difficult to PP with.


yes, I agree
do not forget too, only on a PI
the edge of the coil is already a pinpointer

very easy to point a target with the manta coil
just tilt the coil to mark the place

Has the Manta been tested in the ocean with the coil more then 3 feet deep below the surface of the ocean water? And if yes, was it able to operated at 7 us at that time?

TerryinHawaii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has the Manta been tested in the ocean with the co
> il more then 3 feet deep below the surface of the
> ocean water? And if yes, was it able to operated a
> t 7 us at that time?


Good question, generally as you go deeper you need to turn up the delay, that's why many PI's for water detecting don't go below 15us delay. And as you dive into deeper salt water the delay has to be pushed higher, so you lose detection capabilities towards smaller gold etc. targets. 7us pulse delay might be great for prospecting for tiny nuggets but Pulse width has to be considered also.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

TerryinHawaii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has the Manta been tested in the ocean with the co
> il more then 3 feet deep below the surface of the
> ocean water? And if yes, was it able to operated a
> t 7 us at that time?


not done any test yet, in real diving
waiting for sealed boxes ...

up to the waist / make a meter 85
the 7us is executable
I still use a lipo on the prototype, can not take the risk to explode

should not be a problem
even though it may be necessary to lower the power

for exemple,
in the lab, the aquastar 10us full power
generates a lot of noise / EMI / and unwanted noise

in the same place, manta 7us and much more powerful
is perfectly smooth zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

everything has been thought
card, shielding, cable, very low capacitance of all the elements
to remain smooth
all that, put end to end
allows you to run a very low delay under the worst conditions


+ pulse width should be 15
on the Aqua version
I have 15 and 20 on the proto /
15 offers better yield small jewelry / big jewelry
20 enables touch Wholesale / further
but he has a slight loss on the little ones,
and you can believe me with a pulse width of 15
you will never have had anything so deep


for the terra-nugget version
several window should be possible / very small gold / small gold / large gold ...
later, versions allowing access to the pro settings
will be possible

LE.JAG ,
A little of my history, Eric Foster send me the first Aquastar to test and debug in Hawaii. After we got it working fairly good. I dug 107 pieces of gold and platinum jewelry in 6 1/2 months. If the Manta is shipped with a 12 inch coil, yes then limited the delay to 15 us. But in my case, I am willing to pay an extra $!,000.00 for a center mount 10 inch that will operate at 10 us with a Manta that can operate at 10 us or even faster pulse delay. Because I know what this combination can do in ocean water 5 feet deep. I am wondering what size coil is used to operate at 7 us in the ocean? Thank you.

Another vote for thr 10".....lol. honestly im not fond of a larger coil for a PI. Not needed for depth and coverage isnt as important as sensitivity.

TerryinHawaii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE.JAG ,
> A little of my history, Eric Foster send me the fi
> rst Aquastar to test and debug in Hawaii. After we
> got it working fairly good. I dug 107 pieces of g
> old and platinum jewelry in 6 1/2 months. If the
> Manta is shipped with a 12 inch coil, yes then lim
> ited the delay to 15 us. But in my case, I am wil
> ling to pay an extra $!,000.00 for a center mount
> 10 inch that will operate at 10 us with a Manta th
> at can operate at 10 us or even faster pulse delay
> . Because I know what this combination can do in
> ocean water 5 feet deep. I am wondering what size
> coil is used to operate at 7 us in the ocean? Tha
> nk you.


Terry, you misunderstood me (I have a little trouble with English ...)
when I was talking about 15 or 20, it is the pulse width

- to put it simply:
reading time of the window of the gold-- ===== impulse width 15 microsecond retained for aquamanta version

all Fisher manta will start at 7us delay
with the 12-inch series

the optional 10 inches, it also has 7 us of course
even easier
I do not know, if the 10 inches will be available from the launch ... == to do the forcing with your Fisher resellers- Aquamanta preorder with 10 inch coil

technically it is possible to do better
the prototype starts at 6.5 us
I even had one that started at 5.8
less than 6 us causes too much problem / ground effect / for now

Bipolar technology could do better / later..

- - you used an aquastar
it's easier to understand what brings
a very low delay + the high voltage
on a very smooth machine

another picture
2015 a week of hunting
test manta coils on a 5c goldscan modified by Alexandre



it was starting then 7.5 us under 19 volts
on very hunt beaches
flat, deep, hard sand
90% of targets were out of reach of other machines


the Fisher will be more powerful deeper and smoother

for an engineer like Alexandre
make a prototype or a small series to 7us is "" relatively easy '' '

the biggest challenge of the Fisher manta project
is to produce in "" large series "" a machine with extraordinary performances
which takes a little longer than expected
but we're gonna do it


and you will also have the opportunity to pass
on the volcanic sand (I hope we will have the opportunity to do some tests on Hawaii, when the volcano will calm down)
impossible for aquastar and other Pi

the bags of the video contains volcanic sand
similar to the sand of Hawaii volcano

[www.youtube.com]

= two things to remember
in iron rejection mode
we lose 24 k / signature too close conductivity of iron // 22k and under no problem

and the more we push the rejection
the more you take the risk of losing big targets in gold ....

but the only thing to remember
is that the Fisher manta
will find gold targets
impregnable for all other detectors



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2018 12:17PM by LE.JAG.

If Tesla was still around we'd have wireless battery packs for our detectors. lol

tabman

LE.JAG, Sorry that I misunderstood. Now I understand better what the goals are in designing the Manta. The volcano is on what we local people call the big island. I live on Oahu which more the 300 miles from the active volcano. Here on this island is one place that I would be happy to take you to that has targets including gold rings more then 15 inches deep. Steve Herschbach has said that we have some very difficult rocks here in Hawaii. One day, I was hunting with my Aquastar using the center mount 10 inch coil. I got a very strong signal but when I started moving rocks. The signal disappeared and I said this can not be. I then went over the area and I got a very faint signal. I move this rock that was roughly 9 inches by 6 inches and 2 inches thick. An American quarter was directly below this rock. Even with the coil no more then 6 inches above the quarter. This rock was able to reduce the audio response from my Aquastar so much that in normal hunting. I would have not noticed it. I now wished I had kept this rock and I have often wondered how may other targets are hidden by rocks of this type. So please come to Oahu for more testing and I will be your guide.

no problem Terry,

the basalt stones give a sound with all the PIs
manta also in all metals

with the rejection of iron / we have not encountered any problem on
all baslat stones tested

and the loss of performance across the basalt
is less than 10% on all our tests

- well on, it is always possible to find harder
in some region of the world ...

but, I really think it will be better than anything you've had
and I put Oahu on the list of spots tested

Im in fl...... soooo ill have to rent a backhole lol. Im wondering thou if I pre ordered with a 10" coil just how long id be in line.... hopefully not like ML. Do we know the type of coil that might be.....mono?

yes, only mono coil, for the beach

we have not tested DD yet .....

LE.JAG,

You said the following.
= two things to remember
in iron rejection mode
we lose 24 k / signature too close conductivity of iron // 22k and under no problem.

Over here we can find 100% pure platinum rings. Would 100% pure platinum rings act like 24K gold in the iron rejection mode?

The more you tell me about the Manta, the more I want it!

I think LE JAG hs hit on the main point of all our enthusiasm and expectation. I have no doubt that Alexandre could produce dozens of hand-tuned perfect machines. Unfortunate;y that would be it - a few. They would have to sell for several thousand dollars each.

Producing these -thousands of them - to sell for 1 -3 thousand dollars each - each performing indentically - that is a job for a serious production process. Proven, replicable and qualified. That, sadly, takes time......

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2018 12:35AM by lytle78.

each performing indentically............This is very important. Also......we were talking salt and 15 Us...... but most of these machines ARENT used for diving..... and many that use diving detectors are looking for larger targets with machines that have even higher Us. Most of us at best snorkel with our machines so there is no real need to have one rated to 200 ft. Obviously Fisher will have a better handle on ....... is it worth making it dive capable compared to say 20 ft? Also......machines used in the salt water like the Xcal and CZ that rarely get serviced...... are they really capable of 200 ft? So is this rating just giving us a warm and fuzzy...... and adding cost? My vote is a strong capable wading/snorkel machine light weight, simple to use, at a reasonable price. That IMO has sold the Nox.

TerryinHawaii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE.JAG,
>
> You said the following.
> = two things to remember
> in iron rejection mode
> we lose 24 k / signature too close conductivity of
> iron // 22k and under no problem.
>
> Over here we can find 100% pure platinum rings. W
> ould 100% pure platinum rings act like 24K gold in
> the iron rejection mode?
>
> The more you tell me about the Manta, the more I w
> ant it!

Terry, you put me a glue, I have not tested PT 999 ...
but the conductivity of pure platinum and cut / is different from the 24k gold
should not be a problem / or less problem

of course the rejection of iron is configurable
it's not just an on / off
Fisher Aquamanta will adapt to many field

you can adjust it / the finest possible

for example for you :
just cut, the basalt hot stones
and you will have a sound on the 24K ring
a sound like iron
it will be enough to dig all the targets in this setting configuration
but I guess it's not a problem
to find gold
there, or nobody can find it for now


and I add, in all metals mode 7 us
makes the Fisher Aquamanta more sensitive on the 24k
than the other detectors
the very low delay makes the difference

I found a 24k ring open at the beginning of the year
and got a great sound for this type of target
rare in my home, mainly 18k in France
moreover it is an Asian ring ...

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> each performing indentically............This is ve
> ry important. Also......we were talking salt and
> 15 Us...... but most of these machines ARENT used
> for diving..... and many that use diving detectors
> are looking for larger targets with machines that
> have even higher Us. Most of us at best snorkel
> with our machines so there is no real need to have
> one rated to 200 ft. Obviously Fisher will have
> a better handle on ....... is it worth making it d
> ive capable compared to say 20 ft? Also......mac
> hines used in the salt water like the Xcal and CZ
> that rarely get serviced...... are they really cap
> able of 200 ft? So is this rating just giving us
> a warm and fuzzy...... and adding cost? My vote
> is a strong capable wading/snorkel machine light w
> eight, simple to use, at a reasonable price. That
> IMO has sold the Nox.

Weight is a huge factor and the nox hit the mark there. Hopefully the Manta can as well. The 10 ft limit on the CTX/Nox is more than enough for most people. Dive and non Dive models are always an option. I don't really take my machines in the water at all. too much of a pain around the surf.

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC