New Fisher Manta

Wet-salt beach hunting is a bit bigger than we give credit to. If you were to count the sales of Excal's sold..... and for the primary purpose of wet-salt beach hunting...… (to include the less-expensive/more-affordable Sovereign)……….,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you may be surprised.

More might be hunting the water/wet sand as well....... if they could. I see a lot of people swinging less effective single freq machines on the wet sand hoping they work. There are a lot of beach hunter indeed Tom. When you consider .... those less effective machine, CZs, Xcals, CTX...... i believe you are right the numbers maybe surprising.

In previous posts it was said that the beach model would probably be first and then a land model. Question: if salt is so difficult and the pulse is 7 and if I understand,the lower the pulse rate the deeper,then why would the beach model not be suitable for relics/deep cannon balls,etc. on land?

The details of how the Manta uses its GB feature to provide the limited iron ID feature are unlikely to be revealed, so what I am posting here is guesswork.

Having used a couple of TDI’s I am familiar how that detector can be used on beaches and elsewhere with the GB function turned off. It is necessary to keep the coil level and at a constant distance from the ground. If you encounter suddenly variable or very highly mineralized ground, it will make a lot of noise and become unusable. When you get into soils with high magnetic loss angle, the ground balance feature is required and must be set at the point where the ground signal and the balance point coincide. This requirement may make the Manta platform unable to deliver iron ID to good depth and GB to remove high iron soil signals at the same time.

I recall that Eric Foster’s GoldQuest SS, when operated with DD coils, could use it’s variable SAT to reduce the ground signal in many areas.

Having said all that, Fisher has posted that they are proceeding with a “TerraManta” for inland use. I doubt that they would bother if they didn’t have “something up their sleeve” on dealing with inland high mineral soils while retaining useful ironID and more importantly the extremely smooth and quiet operation of the “AquaManta”. That low noise operation is the key to the Manta’s remarkable depth.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Thanks Rick for yet Another excellent infomercial----I can hear it comin'-------

MANTA MANIA !!!!!!!!!!

And 'precise coils' must be able to be developed....en-mass.,.,.,.,., in order to have 7uS or 8uS usability. IF these coils can be mass-produced...…. then the project can continue.

doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In previous posts it was said that the beach model
> would probably be first and then a land model. Que
> stion: if salt is so difficult and the pulse is 7
> and if I understand,the lower the pulse rate the d
> eeper,then why would the beach model not be suitab
> le for relics/deep cannon balls,etc. on land?


I know this might sound silly, but there are some machines that are just too squirrelly sensitive to be of practical use for coin/relic type venues. Perhaps nugget/prospecting, fine. Then yes, you want the bells of notre-dame to ring on every speck of birdshot. But is that the objective of cellar holes, stage stops, old town urban tearouts, park hunting, forts, etc.... ?? Of course not. The average coin/relic guy DOESN'T want to hear those things. Eh ?

I recall trying the TDI in turf, back when it first came out. We were armed with all the instructions/tools of how we could tell high vs low, iron vs conductive, etc... Granted: By the time you applied those "tricks", your depth was no more than a standard machine. But we wanted to try it out anyhow. And years later, I can STILL hear the annoying sqaulls and screeches of the machine. Sure, each has a "recipe" that you can decide to pass or chase. But ssshhheeesskk, what a head-ache ! Another example is the Fisher 1266: In some hunt environs, the excessive sensitivity becomes a HANDICAP, not a help. Same logic for this discussion of pulse on land sites. Do you really want a machine capable of finding specks, for most coin/relic spots ? No.

Sorry, but I think the manta is going to be relegated to the usual beach or prospecting purposes. And is not going to somehow be able to pass iron, like standard machines. And to the degree it might be an improvement over previous primitive iron-disc. abilities, yet I bet that "nagging doubts" are going to send those poor beach hunters digging a bunch "just to be sure" (esp. when the nails are bent).

Which isn't a bad thing. Perhaps it will be a better beach pulse than existing beach pulses. But for land or true iron disc ? No.

Tom, what would we do without you?

Having had my fun....I agree that the challenges of terrestrial use are major.

As far as “coin shooting” - that strange American Pastime - based on the fond memory or when 25¢ would buy a hamburger at the Soda Fountian....Coin shooters, I’m convinced - derive a larg part of their satisfaction from playing “ID games” with their detector, fussing with notches, tones and other stuff to be able to tell in advance as much as possible about the target before digging it. Various good reasons for this including the total absurdity of coin choosing in an eara of zinc pennies and 1$ cokes.

Deep relic hinting - for relic hunting, where depth and a usable degree if iron ID are the main requirements, then simple ground handling and a quiet machine are the only major factors, apart from the iron ID. Based on everything I have read, including some correspondence with LE JAG, I am pretty confident that the Manta is quiet, powerful and that the iron ID is quite usable, if not perfect (but no detector’s iron ID is perfect). That leaves the question of ground handling. I have no information at all about how the Manta team is planning to deal with that on inland sites. They seem very confident, however that they can.

Deep Silver - another American thing. We are about the only country who had silver coinage right up to the 1960’s. Do you remember the “trick” on the TDI where offsetting the GB setting let you find silver and clad coins while ignoring all lower conductors? It worked great, but the depth loss was such that it made no sense compared to a good VLF. Except for one thing. Where the VLF was totally subject to masking (silent or otherwise) of high conductors by adjacent or superimposed lower conductiors, the PI was simply not “seeing” the low conductors and the high conductors were “seen” as if the others were not there. This characteristic is a basic feature of how PI’s operate. It will be interesting to see in a couple of years if after AquaManta, RelicManta, NuggetManta, we get SilverManta.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2018 01:17AM by lytle78.

If FT can put the performance of a GPX in a 3 pound detector it'll sell like hotcakes. Throw in water proof & I don't see how they can make enough of them.

Give me Depth or give me Death.

Deeeeeeep iron is what I am looking for.

Quote Rick (Lytle78):" When you get into [tough] soils, the ground balance feature ... must be set at the point where the ground signal and the balance point coincide. This requirement may make the Manta platform unable to deliver iron ID to good depth and GB to remove high iron soil signals at the same time."
Alexandre did make a post over on Geotech1 showing the basics of how the 'ground elimination' worked. It was totally different to the 'normal' ground balance method used by common mono-coil PI's. The coil design was key - it was two mono-coils together, pulsed alternatively, in opposite current directions. Then averaging together two consecutive pulse responses seemed to produce:
( ground response A - ground response B ) = approx zero.
But somehow or other it avoids ( target A - target B ) = zero, which clearly wouldn't make a great detector...
Sadly I know nearly stuff-all about PI's, so this meant little to me.

The Geotech1 thread:
[www.geotech1.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2018 09:59PM by Pimento.

Mr. P.

good catch, but the bi-axial coil is not on the initial Manta. Sad maybe, but exciting. Exciting because, according to what I sniff in the wind, this is just the start of an all-out parade of units. Beach, land, nuggets, ....

How much of this hope will be realized in production equipment - we will have to see as time passes.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Sorry Doc - according to my pal LE JAG, this device will only find gold. Lol

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I think it is possible to focus too heavily on the negative stuff and make a mountain out of a mole hill. The plusses outweigh the minuses IMO when it comes to pulse machines. Anybody that has decent time behind one will tell you that. Yes you will dig a little more junk with one in the early going but with just a little time, you can learn the nuances and be pretty darn good with one. Reading Tom in CA's description of pulse use made me snicker. Using that logic, you could say that people won't like sex because it can be messy. Haha.

Good one Dan!

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
....
> . Using that logic, you could say that people won
> 't like sex because it can be messy. Haha.


You guys are much too cruel. Doh !

if you dig, like me
the smallest whispers at great depth
inevitably you will dig more waste......
it's the game / and you find things that others can not see

the black sand is very messy
but I love this





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detector used : Fisher Aquamanta /

Pulsepower Goldscan 5c / Aquastar / Goldquest SSV3 / Nexus Coronado / Vista Gold

A fine piece of British gold there, and the mount looks period to the coin, too, 1920's maybe.

Pimento Wrote:
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> A fine piece of British gold there, and the mount
> looks period to the coin, too, 1920's maybe.


yes half-sovereign
you were not far 1910

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> It'll surpass TDI.


In what way, depth, form of discrimination. The TDI is super deep on targets, even in the wet salt sand areas of a beach. Waiting.

markg Wrote:
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> NASA-Tom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It'll surpass TDI.
>
>
> In what way, depth, form of discrimination. The T
> DI is super deep on targets, even in the wet salt
> sand areas of a beach. Waiting.

I believe they have said its deeper and the TDI doesn't have iron disc

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC

Shorter minimum pulse delay, much quieter so you can hear even faint signals and - oh yes - waterproof and ergonomic.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I know this the TDI loves iron. I have one. It doesn't even go for rides anymore because it loves iron. Now I'm a civil war relic hunter though. I do have a GPX. It does back flips over my TDI. Just saying guys. I offer my buddy's to use it & they turn it down. I hunt challenging ground & a vlf machine won't get past 6"-8" on a bullet. I know the TDI will but with no iron rejection. That makes it tough to use it. You know time in the field good recoveries. Now my GPX. I find bullets at 15" regularly & don't dig much iron.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2018 10:03PM by Digger70pa.

All the talk on the Manta is salt water. Will this detector work ok in fresh water lakes?

Rick

Much easier Rick......but fresh water lakes unlike the salt water has every piece of junk ever dropped in it. It just decays at a much slower rate. Theres just a lot of junk to sift thru as you can imagine/know. Salt water also has more movement........ to deep today.... on top tomorrow. If that lake has been busy....... id highly recommend a VLF be used first...... even in AM wont take long to see if its worth or just how much you will have to dig with a machine that might get much more depth and sensitivity to very tiny targets. Bring that sifter ..... you will need it.

Dew

Lol, sex also hurts my shoulder, but I perform to be polite

Happy using any type, as long as it beeps when over anything metallic.

Rick...…… the initial concept (and subsequent inception) of a Pulse unit was/is specifically targeted to handle some form of a 'harsh' environment …… where a VLF (and especially a single freq unit) may struggle or fail to perform.
Yes...……. a PI will function per-design in fresh water; yet, a waterproof VLF will match (or do better) than a PI in fresh water.

Thanks, Makes sense. In my mild ground vlf's go deep.

Rick

I think a price between $1800 - $2100 usd could possibly be a fair price. Fishers top of the line uw detectors the sar1 and pulse 8x are advertised as their commercial and professional detectors. the pulse for about $2100 and the sar1 for about $1900 usd. i think going over $2500 would eliminate the majority of detectorists. not saying its not worth more, many just cant afford it. I think that at a price point of about $1999 they would fly off the shelves. I think that if Fishers prices this as affordable to the majority. they will be at the top of the mountain #1 paul

paulie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a price between $1800 - $2100 usd could p
> ossibly be a fair price. Fishers top of the line
> uw detectors the sar1 and pulse 8x are advertised
> as their commercial and professional detectors. t
> he pulse for about $2100 and the sar1 for about $1
> 900 usd. i think going over $2500 would eliminate
> the majority of detectorists. not saying its not w
> orth more, many just cant afford it. I think that
> at a price point of about $1999 they would fly off
> the shelves. I think that if Fishers prices this a
> s affordable to the majority. they will be at the
> top of the mountain #1 paul

Different species of fish -
[www.jwfishers.com]
[www.fisherlab.com]