New Fisher Manta

No PI machine will ever have discrimination like a VLF in my life time.When I had the Goldscan 5c right before the TDI came about I dug hundreds of bullets at DIV in only two hunts. It will be nearly impossible to find a 5c since Mr. Bill and Eric retired. It is a shame it is not good on high conductors as the 5C because I found several gold rings in one week hunting in Va. Beach. So it found both high and low without a problem.

It’s fine on high conductors - just that it’s even better at finding what was designed to find - gold jewelry.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE.JAG...…. your photos are always so inspiring! M
> y Manta expectations (now) are: I'll be coming hom
> e with a couple of gold rings.... with every hunt!
> I am more-than-willing to dig 20".

Thanks,
it's a good resolution
when I attack a beach
I assume / that there is a gold target every 2 meters
from where a very slow sweep / and concentration
= and they are there )

----------------------------------------------------


dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’d dig 20” to with that expectation. But that d
> epends on time vs outcome.....cause I’m old lol.
>
> "but everything can be learned / if I can do it
> why not you ......... "
>
> An answer to that ..... is 10% of the hunters find
> 90% of the gold.


it's true, a lot of lack of determination
We need to believe
wanting it
without giving the means
and we find
in the world / there are tons of gold under the beaches

-----------------------------------------------------------


vfp7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE.JAG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> Could you show how the detector sees a small gold
> thin chain WITHOUT A LOCK in the zone of the sea s
> urf.
> Thank you in advance.

everything will depend on the size of the loops

on the very very fine chains / we must not have any illusion
the soil effect of seawater / is too strong
to see a loop of 0.01 gr ......

---------------------------------------------------------


Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems the take away is that, although yes it has s
> ome primitive form of discrimination, it's only ef
> fective on low conductors, and to get the ultimate
> depth, you're forced to use all metals mode, which
> completely negates the discrimination mode that we
> 've heard was so great. Does that about sum it up
> ?

no it's bad summary ) but I express myself badly in your language

he will take a gold ring of less than 5gr / in iron cut mode
in black sand
deeper than any BBS

on this same mode / it will be deeper than a TDI
and he can take the gold ring in a handful of nails
or under volcanic sand
what no one does
we can not really say it primitive

I'd rather say it's the missing link
to, a new breed of detector

-----------------------------------------


texkinzee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No PI machine will ever have discrimination like a
> VLF in my life time.When I had the Goldscan 5c rig
> ht before the TDI came about I dug hundreds of bul
> lets at DIV in only two hunts. It will be nearly i
> mpossible to find a 5c since Mr. Bill and Eric ret
> ired. It is a shame it is not good on high conduct
> ors as the 5C because I found several gold rings i
> n one week hunting in Va. Beach. So it found both
> high and low without a problem.

the goldscan 5c has been my favorite of all the pulspowers
mine was modified by Alexandre / coil manta / off ground // and some odds and ends
a gain of 30/40%
I made almost a kilo, with / 18k

but today I only use manta
guess why ...

Basically in a nut shell we have a TDI like detector with detector, with more Depth, Sensitivity and Stability, etc. in all modes. In all metal it will be similar to a TDI in all metal. In disc mode its like using a TDI in low conductivity and GB offset to reject low conduct ferrous, where Iron and high conductors are rejected. In id mode its like switching to all. How about going a step further, add a second discrimination channel. this one set lit using a TDI set in high ab GB offset to reject high conduct ferrous?? Even better stick a 3 position trigger switch on it, switching between all metal and the disc modes?? It might not be full discrimination but its the next best thing, turning it from a gold detector into an all rounder. Surely something like that was discussed in house at some stage lol.

First they came for the beach gold, then they came for the desert gold, then they came for everything else.

This seems to be the stirring of a new energy in detectorland. First Texas spotted a “bright spark” and has grasped it. Their “Euroteam” has enormous ambitions.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

LE.JAG......... Thanks for validating and solidifying my expectations. That makes for quite a secure statement. Yes....... I would like to find a gold ring every 2-Meters.

You are detecting on a beach - you come across 4 rusty nails grouped together. Your detector clearly ID’s them as iron - you move on...

Too bad jack. A couple of inches below those nails is a fat 14kt gold signet ring.

I come along. I have a Manta - in all metal - bang - big signal - I switch to “multitone” I get a “whoop” of iron at each end of the sweep - and the pure sweet tone of the low conductor ring clear in the middle. Or, I put it in mute mode and hear only the sweet high tone - kaching! I go home, happy.

They say a fairy tale begins with “Once upon a time” and that a sea story begins with “And this ain’t no s**t”. Well, this ain’t...etc.

I have seen evidence that the Manta can easily do what I just described. The video I posted of the French beach test hinted at it - ring under 2 crossed nails - but heck, there were only two nails - and they were touching the ring.

The reality is much more impressive. When this thing is FINALLY released - you can all see. Till then, listen to LE JAG - he is the only one who knows what it will do and has done it all - and who is authorized (within limits I’m sure) to share his knowledge.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2018 04:03AM by lytle78.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal - the answer to your question is no...that’s n
> ot about it.
>
> The all metal mode is the deepest - pretty much th
> e same as in every metal detector which has discri
> mination.
>
> It’s designed to find gold at the sea. Nothing el
> se. It is claimed that it is better at this than
> any previous detector.
>
> To find gold with it you search in all metal if co
> nditions permit and cross-check in one of the two
> discrim modes to see if the target is ferrous or o
> ther high conductior. If so, it’s probably not go
> ld jewelry.
>
> If the place is littered with ferrous junk, you ca
> n search in one of the two ferrous ID modes and re
> duce your workload somewhat.
>
> Low conductors other than gold are still good sign
> als. To what extent this includes aluminum trash
> remains to be seen and will probably depend on whe
> ther you are in heavily trashed dry sand or wave/t
> ide sorted more compact stuff.
>
> High conductors like silver coins and US clad will
> ID with iron. It’s not designed to find these. It
> can detect them to good depth, but except for hear
> ing the “round” return as opposed to some iron jun
> k, it’s pretty much dig and see.
>
> All this will be much clearer with the first hundr
> ed units are in the hands of serious gold seekers.
> Remember, Minelab charges $5000 for a detector whi
> ch has no discrimination, is not very waterproof a
> nd mostly finds (in Our part of the world) small g
> old nuggets.
>
> Just my opinion - we’ll see if I need to look up m
> y wild game cookbook recepies for crow after it co
> mes out.

So it's similar to hunting with a Sov doing reverse discrimination - hunt in AM, get a good signal, double check in disc to see if it nulls out/ Something to that affect, but way deeper using PI technology.

LE.JAG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seems the take away is that, although yes it has
> s
> > ome primitive form of discrimination, it's only
> ef
> > fective on low conductors, and to get the ultima
> te
> > depth, you're forced to use all metals mode, whi
> ch
> > completely negates the discrimination mode that
> we
> > 've heard was so great. Does that about sum it
> up
> > ?
>
> no it's bad summary ) but I express myself badl
> y in your language
>
> he will take a gold ring of less than 5gr / in iro
> n cut mode
> in black sand
> deeper than any BBS
>
> on this same mode / it will be deeper than a TDI
> and he can take the gold ring in a handful of nail
> s
> or under volcanic sand
> what no one does
> we can not really say it primitive
>
> I'd rather say it's the missing link
> to, a new breed of detector
>
> -----------------------------------------
>


Thanks, appreciate you taking the time to respond

And there you go again with piles of gold

I'd like to see the nail test done with the ring 3 or 4 inches below the nails. I wonder if it would give the same results.

.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to see the nail test done with the ring 3
> or 4 inches below the nails. I wonder if it would
> give the same results.
>
> .

the result will be the same
it's not a question of distance / but of mass

the critical point is the point of baculement
the bigger the weight of the gold / the closer you are to the tipping point

you can put a nail through the ring gold
two nail 4 inches above

if you are below the critical point
the detector can see the nails == as a soil / ground

I just found the formula that sums it up best
it's the yin and the yang / between gold and iron

BUT......lets get real, the real treasure chest may not be 20" at all. Theres just a lot of gold NOT being seen inches down. The Nox proved that....... hopefully this machine will see even more. This may well be a game changer for some of us....just an edge for the smaller gold is all i need. Once everyone you see is using a Nox or Xcal or what ever..... then you have to change it up some way. It could make that fuffy sand or gray black sand a more productive are to hunt. These areas seems to be dismissed as junk areas and people tend to run the troughs for big gold.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BUT......lets get real, the real treasure chest ma
> y not be 20" at all. Theres just a lot of gold N
> OT being seen inches down. The Nox proved that...
> .... hopefully this machine will see even more. T
> his may well be a game changer for some of us....j
> ust an edge for the smaller gold is all i need. O
> nce everyone you see is using a Nox or Xcal or wha
> t ever..... then you have to change it up some way
> . It could make that fuffy sand or gray black san
> d a more productive are to hunt. These areas see
> ms to be dismissed as junk areas and people tend t
> o run the troughs for big gold.

You just hit the nail on the head dewcon. Iron masking is blocking PLENTY of gold at popular beaches. The black sand here in California can and WILL mask foil range targets at times. This "Manta" will take care of not only depth issues....but masking issues as well.

I don't have "French immunity" like LEJAG.

The NDA scares the poop out of me quite honestly.

From what I can say (which is basically nothing)...this is a "game changer" that really does obsolete the competition (other dedicated beach PI's). No need for parachutes. The gold in your pocket will be fanfare enough.

I've done iron nail tests with Deus...F75...T2...G2+...AT Pro...AT Max...E800......been there done that. I have NEVER seen anything make iron just straight disappear or become irrelevant like this.

Go watch that video Rick posted agin.....and then imagine.....better.

That is probably enough to get me a nasty email telling me to STFU....so I will.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

TheHunterGT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dewcon4414 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BUT......lets get real, the real treasure chest
> ma
> > y not be 20" at all. Theres just a lot of gold
> N
> > OT being seen inches down. The Nox proved that.
> ..
> > .... hopefully this machine will see even more.
> T
> > his may well be a game changer for some of us...
> .j
> > ust an edge for the smaller gold is all i need.
> O
> > nce everyone you see is using a Nox or Xcal or w
> ha
> > t ever..... then you have to change it up some w
> ay
> > . It could make that fuffy sand or gray black s
> an
> > d a more productive are to hunt. These areas s
> ee
> > ms to be dismissed as junk areas and people tend
> t
> > o run the troughs for big gold.
>
> You just hit the nail on the head dewcon. Iron m
> asking is blocking PLENTY of gold at popular beach
> es. The black sand here in California can and WI
> LL mask foil range targets at times. This "Manta"
> will take care of not only depth issues....but mas
> king issues as well.
>
> I don't have "French immunity" like LEJAG. :
> D
>
> The NDA scares the poop out of me quite honestly.
>
> From what I can say (which is basically nothing)..
> .this is a "game changer" that really does obsolet
> e the competition (other dedicated beach PI's). N
> o need for parachutes. The gold in your pocket wi
> ll be fanfare enough.
>
> I've done iron nail tests with Deus...F75...T2...G
> 2+...AT Pro...AT Max...E800......been there done t
> hat. I have NEVER seen anything make iron just s
> traight disappear or become irrelevant like this.
>
> Go watch that video Rick posted agin.....and then
> imagine.....better.
>
> That is probably enough to get me a nasty email te
> lling me to STFU....so I will.


it's already a good opinion
I could possibly offer you, the political asylum

TheHunterGT Wrote:

>
> You just hit the nail on the head dewcon. Iron m
> asking is blocking PLENTY of gold at popular beach
> es. The black sand here in California can and WI
> LL mask foil range targets at times. This "Manta"
> will take care of not only depth issues....but mas
> king issues as well.
>
> I don't have "French immunity" like LEJAG. :
> D
>
> The NDA scares the poop out of me quite honestly.
>
> From what I can say (which is basically nothing)..
> .this is a "game changer" that really does obsolet
> e the competition (other dedicated beach PI's). N
> o need for parachutes. The gold in your pocket wi
> ll be fanfare enough.
>
> I've done iron nail tests with Deus...F75...T2...G
> 2+...AT Pro...AT Max...E800......been there done t
> hat. I have NEVER seen anything make iron just s
> traight disappear or become irrelevant like this.
>
> Go watch that video Rick posted agin.....and then
> imagine.....better.
>
> That is probably enough to get me a nasty email te
> lling me to STFU....so I will.

If you don't mind me asking, what part of California are you testing this thing at? Asking to get an idea of the conditions your dealing with.

btw the hype is very hight on this one =) haha "bravo le jag" they could hire you at least as a marketing expert on this one =)
too bad you cant come in the 56 to show me the beast haha,
im pretty sure curious random detectorist are coming and ask question about your machine , while you are beachcombing is it accepted by the nda ?

Hype .......i seem to remember someone when the CTX came out ... he was showing gold every day by the handsful. Yet the machine didnt have a salt setting....... which they finally added so the rest of us could use the darn thing in the water.

Thus far the Nox has shown it gets some of the small gold that the Xcal and CTX will miss...... now if this one has depth AND sensitivity and i dont have to give my left... you know what for it..... im all set.

BUT..... all the talk in the word about it dont mean beans till its on the street to me. Sounds like they are testing....... so does that mean 6 more months? I feel like the ground hog keeps seeing his shadow here.

I think the Avila Beach - Morro - Pismo area would be a good spot.....if a guy was to test it out here....

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

All this enthusiasm is wonderful. The device fully justifies it. Just one thing...right now it’s a “device”. The time and $$$ between a device and a product can be surprisingly large.

Say you have this prototype sitting on your lab bench. Now you call in the mechanical department, purchasing, marketing. They look at it. They start figuring out everyday stuff like - how much is this going to cost to build per unit - assuming what sales rate? How much do we charge for it? Too much and we restrict sales - too little and the boss fires us and hires competent people in our place.

It ain’t easy. It ain’t quick and very few of us have been through the process.

If they could sell thousands of unit per year for many years, it could sell for less than if they can only sell a few hundred units a year. The beach detector market is a niche in detectorland. Serious gold hunting at the beach is a niche within a niche. This is not a general purpose detector. It is like the Excalibur, CZ21, and the beach PI detectors. None of these are exactly “hot sellers”. That tends to keep the prices up due to low volume.

I don’t think this will be a cheap detector. When Eric Foster was building his beach machines, they sold for a bundle. His most powerful machine was the Aquastar. It sold for $1700 in the year 2000 - that’s $2500 in 2018 dollars. Clive Clynick sold his used Aquastar for $1800 back in 2005. Folks who have used both, say the Manta is deeper and quieter than the Aquastar.

[www.treasurenet.com]

LE JAG sold his Manta prototype (back before First Texas was in the picture) in 2016 for $2000

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

You can bet there is a lot of head scratching going on in El Paso these days. Hard work turning a wonderful device into a profitable product. It takes more time than you might think.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2018 06:45PM by lytle78.

Of course, it is hype as of right now....the thing is not even released yet.

Skepticism and enthusiasm are all part of it right now. Grain of salt needed until it is in your hands.

I can say it is further along than most people think.....but the release date is well beyond something I will speculate publicly on.

I used the E800 prototypes. I saw the parachute. Been there done that. Trust me I get your point of view.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

TheHunterGT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the Avila Beach - Morro - Pismo area would be a good spot.....if a guy was to test it out here....

I'm up in central/norcal, so beach hunting would likely cover Monterey to Half Moon Bay. There's a few areas with heavy concentrations of black sands, would certainly be interesting to test it there during some winter erosion events

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheHunterGT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think the Avila Beach - Morro - Pismo area wou
> ld be a good spot.....if a guy was to test it out
> here....
>
> I'm up in central/norcal, so beach hunting would l
> ikely cover Monterey to Half Moon Bay. There's a
> few areas with heavy concentrations of black sands
> , would certainly be interesting to test it there
> during some winter erosion events

Once it is released and for sale - if you ever want to meet up and use it for a day....I would gladly make the drive or meet at a halfway point. Always happy to meet and hunt with respected members of the hobby like yourself.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

TheHunterGT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TheHunterGT Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > I think the Avila Beach - Morro - Pismo area would be a good spot.....if a guy was to test it out here....
> >
> > I'm up in central/norcal, so beach hunting would likely cover Monterey to Half Moon Bay. There's a few areas with heavy concentrations of black sands, would certainly be interesting to test it there during some winter erosion events
>
> Once it is released and for sale - if you ever want to meet up and use it for a day....I would gladly make the drive or meet at a halfway point. Always happy to meet and hunt with respected members of the hobby like yourself.

Thanks for the offer (and compliment), that would be great! I might even be able to drag along Sir Kill Joy, err TomCA. He's an avid beach hunter, but he's never been a believer in PI technology at the beach, perhaps that could change with this machine.

Ok....someone test it in the gulf. Calm waters you can’t get most places year round. Not a lot of chasing targets so you can really get a read on depth and sensitivity out there chest deep.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the offer (and compliment), that would
> be great! I might even be able to drag along Sir
> Kill Joy, err TomCA. He's an avid beach hunter, b
> ut he's never been a believer in PI technology at
> the beach, perhaps that could change with this mac
> hine.

I've had a "discussion" or two with Tom before on some other forums. While I don't always agree with the guy....our interactions have been respectful and pleasant for sure.

I'm not sure I'm the man for changing his mind. But if you hold him still...I 'll give him my best punch to knock some sense into him.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .... and cross-check in one of the two
> discrim modes to see if the target is ferrous or o
> ther high conductior....

Trying to catch up on this thread. And ... have to fulfill my divinely appointed "kill-joy" duties :

I won't address the black-sand-minerals ability. No doubt that's a "given" (it's a pulse, after all). Where Cal Cobra & I are (and even most all of So. Ca) is not nasty black. The only exceptions (that truly and fully shut down a machine) would be on some gully-wash post-storm condition creek outlets. Then yes, there's been few times I'd have sold my first-born child for a pulse. But normally, we just walk left or right 20 paces, and we're out of it.

And I won't address the supposed effortless nail-see through trick. When we have erosion going on, then it's not-too-often that nail-see-through is a high priority. Most often .... SPEED is the name of the game, in thick conditions.

But one thing I want to address here, is the above quote from lytle 78 : Since this machine is touted to be akin to the TDI, then I might have an issue with the ability to tell "highs" vs "lows" (if we grant that this is a "given"). Here's why : For those familiar with the "cut-off" of "high" vs "low", on the TDI (the Manta's cousin), then : It is not exactly "zinc and up" or "penny/dime and up". If my memory serves me right, it's right about mid-scale. Ie.: such that, perhaps the very beefy square tab, or a corroded zinc, would be classified as a "high conductor".

If so, we have a problem : If someone's going to elect to pass high conductors (in their effort to pass iron), then they might be kissing some beefier larger fat men's rings goodbye. Granted, that's not a lot of men's gold rings that read up in the zinc. penny range, but it DOES happen.

I have been in severe storm erosion conditions, where coins were so fast and furious, that we began to pass everything from copper penny & up. And to accept zinc and down. Because, quite frankly, there WAS no zinc pennies in such erosion conditions. They are washed out with the light stuff . Aluminum, zinc, etc... is all gone. Only the heavy stuff left behind. And in those cases, the super expansive TID scale of a CTX, or Explorer, or Nox, etc... could come in quite handy. Versus just a "high" vs "low" dual categories.

Granted, this doesn't happen too often. But ... just a kill-joy thought.

TheHunterGT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I'm not sure I'm the man for changing his mind. B
> ut if you hold him still...I 'll give him my best
> punch to knock some sense into him.

And I have nothing but respect for your input on this forum too. I'm certainly willing to be shown. I'd keep an open mind. If you guys could bring one to our part of CA, during an erosion episode, I would love to compare flagged signals. There isn't always black nasty minerals going on. But .... we can just assume, for sake of argument, that that's a "given". What I'd be interested in seeing is the ability to pass iron (without lots of nagging doubts, triple checking every signal, blah blah). And the depth (does it have the fabled pulse depth WHILE discriminating ??). And the cut-off point of high vs low.

Cal-cobra Brian is more in-land than my part of CA. So I'm the one who's put in the most beach hours and years.

As for those that have tried it (or seen the videos, etc...) be aware that it's subconsciously possible to ... for lack of a better phrase .... "tune the machine to the target". Especially when you know what you've just planted, and exactly where it is. The REAL trick, is to employ it in the real world with unknown targets. Because, remember .... SO TOO did "very convincing videos" pop up when the TDI first came out. And ... at first glance, it appeared that IT TOO could pass iron, tell highs vs lows, etc... But as we all know: The devil was in the details.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2018 11:56PM by Tom_in_CA.

Tom. No better support for extraordinary claims is the detailed and thoughtful criticism of the evidence offered. I look forward to drinking your beer and letting you find out if this is a THING - or just another flash in the pan.

Sadly, it may not be this year - heck it might be later than we hope next year, but whenever it is expect me at your doorstep - detector and scoop in hand!

Your sort of solid "show me" skepticism is sadly missing in so many aspects of life today. So long as it is paired with an open and thoughtful mind - we'll have a look at their detector - your mind, and the contents of your fridge one of these days - hopefully

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom. No better support for extraordinary claims i
> s the detailed and thoughtful criticism of the evi
> dence offered. I look forward to drinking your bee
> r and letting you find out if this is a THING - or
> just another flash in the pan.
>
> Sadly, it may not be this year - heck it might be
> later than we hope next year, but whenever it is e
> xpect me at your doorstep - detector and scoop in
> hand!
>
> Your sort of solid "show me" skepticism is sadly m
> issing in so many aspects of life today. So long a
> s it is paired with an open and thoughtful mind -
> we'll have a look at their detector - your mind, a
> nd the contents of your fridge one of these days -
> hopefully

Ok. And there's a little bachelor pad cubicle at my place of business (shower, microwave, bed, etc...) that you are welcome to stay at. And ... sure ..... you can have all the beer you want (Cal Cobra springs for that part of the deal ! )

Once we get into any erosion cycles (usually dead-winter months of Late Nov to end of January-ish), the surfer forecasts start to get pretty accurate @ about 5 days out. So touch base with us then, and ... given a window-range of time, can hopefully line up a spot with a wide variety of "what if's" to put the machine through.

Our beach ranges are: Santa Cruz on the north (~45 min. south of San Jose) to Carmel (1.5 hr. south of San Jose). Ie.: the Monterey bay region. Some of the bay area guys go to Half Moon bay, but I never go that far north. And some of the SF guys hit beaches up around the Golden Gate. But that's way north of Cal Cobra & I's beach-watch zones.

TheHunterGT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I've had a "discussion" or two with Tom before on some other forums. While I don't always agree with the guy....our interactions have been respectful and pleasant for sure.
>
> I'm not sure I'm the man for changing his mind. But if you hold him still...I 'll give him my best punch to knock some sense into him.

I've tried, he's stubborn as I'll get out. Imagine being in a truck with him for an 8 hour drive, you can bet we have some great conversations when Sir Kill Joy is at his best - lol

Actually we do have some interesting conversations, debates, marriage counseling, retirement strategy discussions, you name it. He's a legendary beach hunter up here, I don't think he goes for fresh drops, he focuses on erosion events.

Rick, I'll spring for the beers, Tom will buy dinner, and we'll do some detecting

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> he's stubborn as I'll get out.

Durned Right ! And I got the goods to show it. Including that $5 gold I graciously planted for you to find. (you're welcome ).

As for slow to change (ie.: stubborn), that's why God invented internet md'ing forums for: So stubborn people could sit back, wait for other people to "test the waters". And ...... wait till the evidence of a new-&-better mousetrap is overwhelming. Also another reason I enjoy hunting with you. You have never failed to keep abreast of the latest tech. rumors, and try a wide variety of machines. Enjoyable to compare "tried & true" with newer stuff.

A lot of our sites don't require hard-core machine ability. They are more a function of "location location location". But some other sites, yes, the "tad more depth" makes the difference. Or the "tad better see-through" makes the difference.