Tom Review

Come on ML what ya scared of? I want to hear what Tom has to say about the Nox beginning to end. I know a lot of his valuable time was spent on this machine. What a waist not letting us know the ins and outs of the machine. Is there something you DONT want us to know? His testing is extensive and meticulous with some real insight i know he'd like to share...... about its abilities. I for one would like to know...... if he thinks its as good as some of the other beach machines. Will it find small gold..... even small chains? Is it deeper on all gold or just the smaller gold? How does he feel it should be set up? Should it be run smooth in the water........ and what depth do we gain or loose between beach 1 and beach 2. How does Recovery speed ..... IB..... sensitivity and our own sweep interact? Ive seen a lot of questions he could have answered and save us a lot of guess work. Its a great machine....... but id like to know what he found with it ......how deep will it go on that dime....... whats he think about bottle caps and all the wrap around and mineral noise. Is it like the CTX.... looses depth without you knowing it in the black sand?

Dew

You are asking this of the same guys who promoted the mystical 17 frequencies and 28 frequencies? It’s magic - that’s all we fools need to know.

Seriously, you are spot on. There has never been a tradition in metal detector world of unbiased unsponsored truth telling by experts of how various devices really performed. Tom had been an exception - to a degree. In this case however his obligations under the Non disclosure Agreement seem to have him tied up. I used to negotiate NDA’s and the like for a living. A good one protects everybody, but the penalties for breaching it can be very painful.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Tom had to agree with the silence or it would have never happened. You have two highly qualified testers that report every swing of the coil. What more could you ask for?

I totally agree with you, Dew.

Goodmore, I agree, he had to have agreed to this. My take on that is, I'm sure he didn't like it, but I am guessing that at the end of the day, presented with the options, he made a decision in OUR best interests. In other words, he figured it was better for the detecting world that he provide his expertise to Minelab, and allow it to result in a better machine even while knowing he'd never be able to tell us about it, than it would have been for him to refuse to offer his service as a "protest" to the requirement that it would require his silence. In other words, in my view he did what he could to make it a better machine for us -- even while knowing he'd hate being unable to talk about it. He "took one for the team," and we benefit as a result by his expertise having been included IN the design (even though we don't get to benefit even more by having our learning accelerated by getting his "inside scoop" on some of the details OF the design).

I am extremely grateful he was involved (and that we get to realize the benefits of that), even though I am extremely frustrated that he's gagged...

Steve

Good summary. Tom has demonstrated his serious approach to our chosen interest. Contributing valuable input to the final development of an important new machine and honorably abiding by the terms of an agreement freely entered into are worthy things.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

He may well be still contributing to ongoing development, I don't suppose anyone here would tell?
But bear in mind it is VERY much a software-based machine, and is re-programmable, so changes to existing functions, and adding more functions are things that are likely to occur. The ability to generate any frequency from 5 to 40kHz, and possibly beyond, and more than one frequency at a time, opens up a lot of possibilities.
And then there's always the chance of a '1000' model etc, with more modes and options, fancier LCD screen, who knows. It's possible that an 800 could be programmed to be '1000-like' for the purposes of development.

My take, FWIW, is that Tom is no longer bound by the ML NDA but a personal conflict of interest. In that , he tests machines for ML, Nokta, and possibly others. A good share of a company's sales hinge upon his conclusions. If he touts the Nox as being " all that", Nokta sales will suffer and visa versa. Probably best, on his part, just to stay mum. If I remember correctly, Tom stated in an earlier post, that he couldn't divulge any info due to a " conflict of interest", not an NDA. The Nox is out and in use there is no reason that I can think of as to why a total NDA would still be applicable. Certainly, he could speak to certain aspects as others have ...perhaps not all. Only he can answer that. Just my thoughts.

Dean



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2018 02:30AM by bado1.

Pimento......... do you ever think they will step out of the box and really do an upgrade via the computer for any reason than to fix a bug WE found? I personally like ML has drug us to this more modern stage of the game. USB, fully waterproof, possibly throw away boxes for repairs, and the ability to transmit info via the computer. IF this machine meets our wants hardware wise.......why not just have us pay for upgrades to cut down on hard.... and cost to us as well?

Bando1 i dont think thats it. Tom has always been very willing to share his findings...... why wouldnt he be, he spends a lot of time with these machines. No its ML thats got the gag order on him....... so it makes me wonder just what is it they dont want him to say? Is it marketing again........is their trickle out approach and our williness to stand in line and sell machines more important than a little information? Wouldnt it be a shame if all the companies that come on here to hock their machines without paying for advertising did the same thing? I know Tom has a passion for this hobby and the skills to help move it forward...... but how long would you do it if you cant share what you know to help those you did it for?

Dew

Dew, I agree, Tom's input would be vital for how we use the machine. Yes over time we may figure out what little adjustments may or may not help us find the gold we are looking for but Tom's input would cut the curve considerably. Even small questions like tracking..... if you put the machine in tracking and watch the numbers .....are those live machine GB settings? Or how for a short time how some (me included) understood Auto GB was.....constantly auto adjusting the GB......now I know it isn't constantly adjusting the machine.....

Come on Minelab, let Tom speak!

Cliff

So then, if Tom truly can't say anything, what's stopping him from telling us why he can't say anything?

He rarely posts on the forum anymore and when he does it's just a few quick words. I used to enjoy the long posts he used to write that were full of useful info. Maybe he's just losing interest in the forum and has better things to do these days than read posts, answer questions and write about metal detecting. I'm sure it can get tiring and monotonous at times, not to mention time consuming.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2018 12:32PM by Badger in NH.

Im guessing........ but ill bet Tom spent a good bit of 3 months on the Nox. Valuable time to him if you have ever gotten to meet or speak with him. Ridge time schedule he keeps..... between work, detecting and family. When Tom can openly discuss a detector hes had his hands on we get a lot of information....... and some of those long posts that generate conversation and answers questions.... that to sells machines. But im guessing ML likes ..... trickle out information that lead to a lot of wrong conclusions by the users. I like ML machines........ but ML themselves leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to us..... the customer who use these machines. Youd have to be stupid to think Tom would provide any tech information he thought might hurt a company he worked with..

Dew,

We'll have to Invite Tom to 'Howard's!'

Des

While tom may not be able to say much or anything about the Nox, do keep in mind guys that the man does have another life besides just keeping us all informed about various detectors and detecting in general. HH jim tn

What? Nothings more important than us..... we thirst for information. ..and validation.

Des.....think hed get to finish his sandwich?

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What? Nothings more important than us..... we th
> irst for information. ..and validation.
>
> Des.....think hed get to finish his sandwich?

"Lol...Nope!"

Yeah just speculating here but as said above... Tom more than likely does a WHOLE lot more behind the scenes work than we would ever know.
It’s like Steven Spielberg....you don’t see the guy in the movies, but you know when he directs one as it’s top notch.

XP Deus
Minelab Etrac
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett Carrot
22 silvers, 2 silver rings, 1 Gold Ring -YTD 2018


Some of my random digs: [www.youtube.com]

I think if Tom can write about it, likes and dislikes, he would, so I go to my backup Keith and his review is. It is a good machine but not the best in iron and I run into a lot of iron and you have to hunt it or you won't find some of those masked relics. So from what he tested and my use of the impact I think I'll pass and keep using the impact. It has an all-metal program that is killer (the Gen mood) and if used correctly with the right coil it is deep fast and kicks ass in iron and maybe that is only in my dirt. I have always gone by the rule if you get a one-way tone or a slight tone mixed with iron dig it. That is what we are out there for, we are mining for relics, and you have to investigate and dig those targets. The harder it is to find relics and areas get hunted out the more you have to dig more.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Lawrenzo, actually the equinox can hold its own in iron. I think where people are having trouble in iron is when they try to run the machine too hot. I hit a lot today that has iron galore. The first time i hit it with park 2 with sensitivity set to 24, recovery speed of 6, and iron bias at 0, this is how I normally hunt with it. Needless to say things didn't work out so well. Anyway today I tried something different. I set the Equinox up in park 1, sensitivity backed down to 20, recovery speed of 8, and iron bias at 1. It worked amazingly well for having such a big coil! Managed to pull a badly worn King George copper and some miscellaneous nonferrous items from a place so infested with iron that you cannot take a full swing without going over three or more pieces of it. The only other guy that has permission to hunt it was using a Minelab Etrac with a small hokey puck coil and the Equinox seemed to hang right with it.

In the water......iron tends to stay with you. Move the disc to AM and its tones stay down there..... but move it to 0 and they seem to jump to the first and sometimes second bins as false signal/minerals. Recovery speed does help..... it shortens the tone response time..... the slower the recovery to me the longer the tone. When you have a lot of those mineral tones it can get to much. There is a point where more sensitivity really does very little except make more noise.

This is what i mean....... a good review by Tom ..... or his ability to speak could clarify some of these questions..... on just what would be the right way to run. We find our own way....... but is it the right way? Tom always says...... you dont know what you missed if you missed it.

Shakydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lawrenzo, actually the equinox can hold its own in
> iron. I think where people are having trouble in i
> ron is when they try to run the machine too hot. I
> hit a lot today that has iron galore. The first ti
> me i hit it with park 2 with sensitivity set to 24
> , recovery speed of 6, and iron bias at 0, this is
> how I normally hunt with it. Needless to say thing
> s didn't work out so well. Anyway today I tried so
> mething different. I set the Equinox up in park 1,
> sensitivity backed down to 20, recovery speed of 8
> , and iron bias at 1. It worked amazingly well for
> having such a big coil! Managed to pull a badly wo
> rn King George copper and some miscellaneous nonfe
> rrous items from a place so infested with iron tha
> t you cannot take a full swing without going over
> three or more pieces of it. The only other guy tha
> t has permission to hunt it was using a Minelab Et
> rac with a small hokey puck coil and the Equinox s
> eemed to hang right with it.

Agreed. For the Impact to do as well in the iron as the Nox it has to be wearing a small coil and be set up just right. Nox does it better with 11" stock coil and factory settings. Can't wait for the small coil on the Nox!

Dean

The Nox is a good machine......for the price.... what we get from Tom is a very good review of the good and BAD. Lot of positive things about the Nox..... but we tend to not discuss the bads or we just dont know its short comings yet. Thats why i always look forward to Toms review. You can be if theres a new machine..... and we know he has had his hands on it .... theres a reason hes not done a review..... its not just the Nox. Im not knocking anyone elses review ..... everyone has their opinion, but id sure like to hear Toms... thats all im asking ML to do. I have nearly 300 beach hours on the machine, 25 years of detecting and could do my reivew.... but i highly doubt my review would tell anyone WHY or HOW. Besides no one want my opinion .... how about Toms?

Tom really likes the Impact in fact if I read his posts correctly he really feels it is a great machine. He did have a lot of input on it..but yet it is not for everyone and some won't even learn how to use its power.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

One thing most people who get a new machine fail to realize is that it takes time to learn how to maximize its abilities in different conditions. This afternoon I went back to the same iron infested lot I mentioned above and managed a thirty minute hunt between rain showers. Slowly I am getting to know how to set the Equinox up to hunt in HEAVY iron and at the same time learning to trust what the machine is telling me. If you just went by information gleaned from youtube, you would think turning up the iron bias was a bad thing because it causes loss of depth and sensitivity to small non ferrous items. So anyway today I bumped the iron bias up to three to see if this would help me in my short hunt. It did! It quieted down the Iron considerable and really made a small colonial buckle and a colonial dandy button sound off amongst the iron. Both of these targets had pieces of iron in the hole with them as well as being surrounded by iron. One thing I learned to do is to listen for a repeatable good tone, pinpoint exactly where the target is and then quickly wiggle the coil to make sure the target was indeed good. Its important to have the recovery speed set high in conjunction with the higher iron bias to separate unwanted iron targets from good ones. The more I use this machine, the more I'm convinced that Minelab's specific criteria in designing the equinox was to design a metal detector that could find good targets in heavy iron infested areas.

Shakydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing most people who get a new machine fail t
> o realize is that it takes time to learn how to ma
> ximize its abilities in different conditions. This
> afternoon I went back to the same iron infested lo
> t I mentioned above and managed a thirty minute hu
> nt between rain showers. Slowly I am getting to kn
> ow how to set the Equinox up to hunt in HEAVY iron
> and at the same time learning to trust what the ma
> chine is telling me. If you just went by informati
> on gleaned from youtube, you would think turning u
> p the iron bias was a bad thing because it causes
> loss of depth and sensitivity to small non ferrous
> items. So anyway today I bumped the iron bias up t
> o three to see if this would help me in my short h
> unt. It did! It quieted down the Iron considerable
> and really made a small colonial buckle and a colo
> nial dandy button sound off amongst the iron. Bot
> h of these targets had pieces of iron in the hole
> with them as well as being surrounded by iron. One
> thing I learned to do is to listen for a repeatabl
> e good tone, pinpoint exactly where the target is
> and then quickly wiggle the coil to make sure the
> target was indeed good. Its important to have the
> recovery speed set high in conjunction with the hi
> gher iron bias to separate unwanted iron targets f
> rom good ones. The more I use this machine, the mo
> re I'm convinced that Minelab's specific criteria
> in designing the equinox was to design a metal det
> ector that could find good targets in heavy iron i
> nfested areas.


It really is awesome in the iron. Sounds like you are getting along well with the Nox. I believe you are correct as to MLs specific criteria.

Dean

Shakydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing most people who get a new machine fail t
> o realize is that it takes time to learn how to ma
> ximize its abilities in different conditions. This
> afternoon I went back to the same iron infested lo
> t I mentioned above and managed a thirty minute hu
> nt between rain showers. Slowly I am getting to kn
> ow how to set the Equinox up to hunt in HEAVY iron
> and at the same time learning to trust what the ma
> chine is telling me. If you just went by informati
> on gleaned from youtube, you would think turning u
> p the iron bias was a bad thing because it causes
> loss of depth and sensitivity to small non ferrous
> items. So anyway today I bumped the iron bias up t
> o three to see if this would help me in my short h
> unt. It did! It quieted down the Iron considerable
> and really made a small colonial buckle and a colo
> nial dandy button sound off amongst the iron. Bot
> h of these targets had pieces of iron in the hole
> with them as well as being surrounded by iron. One
> thing I learned to do is to listen for a repeatabl
> e good tone, pinpoint exactly where the target is
> and then quickly wiggle the coil to make sure the
> target was indeed good. Its important to have the
> recovery speed set high in conjunction with the hi
> gher iron bias to separate unwanted iron targets f
> rom good ones. The more I use this machine, the mo
> re I'm convinced that Minelab's specific criteria
> in designing the equinox was to design a metal det
> ector that could find good targets in heavy iron i
> nfested areas.



Very well said and right on target. Know thy machine!