what's up with T'net ?

I like the "thick skinned" ones myself!-----Unfortunately, "thin skin" seems to be the order of the day (in vogue) on a lot of forums anymore.-----Remember the "wars" we used to have? (not on this forum)--but--those days are long gone!-----On this forum we can pretty much say what we feel (within reason).-----Not so elsewhere--you pretty much gotta "walk on eggshells"--watch what you say or you can get yourself in trouble--BUT QUICK--kinda takes the fun out of it!

Any time you get a number of people you will have a spectrum of quality. I regularly tell people that pastors are my most and least favorite people. Some are the greatest to ever draw breath and others are the worst. Every one expects them to be saints until they get to know enough of them. In every group there are good, bad and weird. I think we do better than average, but oh the stories I could tell...
Power corrupts and Mods often seem to be pretty free to rule. But without Mods the inmates would run the forums (I love to mix meta-fores) and all heck would prevail. In over thirteen hundred posts on FMall, I've only been spanked once for daring to ask for thoughts on a non Minelab approved coil on 705s (lesson learned!). I am on a ton of forums and this is my favorite and the first I go to. My only complaint is a seemingly diminished presence of our beloved Mr D. But I can't blame him for having a life in addition to us (sob/sniff).

I hope all this does not get me kicked off the forum! ;-) Thanks for letting me vent.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Pasttom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any time you get a number of people you will have
> a spectrum of quality. I regularly tell people th
> at pastors are my most and least favorite people.
> Some are the greatest to ever draw breath and othe
> rs are the worst. Every one expects them to be sa
> ints until they get to know enough of them. In ev
> ery group there are good, bad and weird. I think
> we do better than average, but oh the stories I co
> uld tell...
> Power corrupts and Mods often seem to be pretty fr
> ee to rule. But without Mods the inmates would ru
> n the forums (I love to mix meta-fores) and all he
> ck would prevail. In over thirteen hundred posts
> on FMall, I've only been spanked once for daring t
> o ask for thoughts on a non Minelab approved coil
> on 705s (lesson learned!). I am on a ton of forum
> s and this is my favorite and the first I go to.
> My only complaint is a seemingly diminished presen
> ce of our beloved Mr D. But I can't blame him for
> having a life in addition to us (sob/sniff).
>
> I hope all this does not get me kicked off the for
> um! ;-) Thanks for letting me vent.


Pasttom------Thanks so much for your input my friend.-----I hear yah about Findmall.----I got spanked but good about 3 or 4 times over there in the last 10 yrs.----Once by none less than the owner himself---straightened me right out (for awhile).----------Del

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm surprised Carl hasn't been banned for taking pokes at LRL's, for instance.
> Perhaps he just treads softer than me.

Way, way softer.

I've told ya before Tom, your posts tend to be too long, too derisive, and too often. I take a poke at the woo-woo every once in a while, but instead of long-winded point-by-point rebuttals I pick one element and keep my comments to 3 sentences or less. I try to post a little tidbit that provokes people to think; in the unlikely case of the OP, then maybe the reading audience. Ferinstance, my reply to ContactLight was all that needed to be said.

Never have a problem with the TNet mods, though I agree they tend to be aggressive with the axe. Their forum, not mine, they can run it any way they like and enjoy the consequences. The woo stuff has always been an element of TNet as far back as I've been a member (20 years this year, at least), it is what it is and not my job to expose what I think to be the truth. Education ain't free, and if a person wants to buy an LRL then I usually encourage them to buy the most expensive education they can afford.

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom_in_CA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm surprised Carl hasn't been banned for taking
> pokes at LRL's, for instance.
> > Perhaps he just treads softer than me.
>
> Way, way softer.
>
>

Yes . You let a bunch of woo-woo stuff go un-challenged. And you pick one point, and develop just that one thought. You do a good job at it.

Quote

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

it is what it is and not my job to expose what I think to be the truth. Education ain't free, and if a person wants to buy an LRL then I usually encourage
them to buy the most expensive education they can afford.

LoL

that's funny!

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote

Geotech Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> it is what it is and not my job to expose what I t
> hink to be the truth. Education ain't free, and if
> a person wants to buy an LRL then I usually encour
> age
> them to buy the most expensive education they can
> afford.

>
> LoL
>
> that's funny!

+1

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom_in_CA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm surprised Carl hasn't been banned for taking pokes at LRL's, for instance. Perhaps he just treads softer than me.
>
> Way, way softer.
>
> I've told ya before Tom, your posts tend to be too long, too derisive, and too often. I take a poke at the woo-woo every once in a while, but instead of long-winded point-by-point rebuttals....

Try ridding for 8 hours in a car to to go detecting with the guy - lol Lots of long winded conversations take place on these epic detecting adventures, that I can assure you

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes . You let a bunch of woo-woo stuff go un-challenged.

Heck, if I tried to go after every nutty thing on TNet I'd have to quit my job and take typing lessons. But I have spent a little more time recently reading the Nut Threads to glean Useful Anecdotes for a book I'm writing. On treasure hunting make-believe.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Try ridding for 8 hours in a car to to go detecting with the guy - lol Lots of long winded conversations
> take place on these epic detecting adventures, that I can assure you

One day maybe I'll get to. Bet Tom & I would have a lot to talk about!

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom_in_CA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes . You let a bunch of woo-woo stuff go un-ch
> allenged.
>
> Heck, if I tried to go after every nutty thing on
> TNet I'd have to quit my job and take typing lesso
> ns. But I have spent a little more time recently r
> eading the Nut Threads to glean Useful Anecdotes f
> or a book I'm writing. On treasure hunting make-be
> lieve.


Put me on the list Carl---I want one of your books!!!

Isn't the LRL the answer to separating aluminum and gold in heavily trashed inner-city parks and school yards? Didn't I read that ? ><


Rich -

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

So Tom, is this a permanent Ban this time??

SeabeeRon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So Tom, is this a permanent Ban this time??


No. It's till November. And oddly, the "welcome backs" and "kudos" were still rolling in . From the 30 day ban prior ban for poking fun at treasure legend holes. Welcome back's from persons who don't even know a new and longer ban was installed. This one for poking a subtle poke that questioning legends = not allowed.

Just quit going over there, ban or not.
Don't give them the clicks. If the quality posters quit somewhere, the forum will eventually degrade to just noobs and braggarts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2018 06:31PM by Champ Ferguson.

Champ Ferguson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just quit going over there, ban or not.
> Don't give them the clicks. If the quality posters
> quit somewhere, the forum will eventually degrade
> to just noobs and braggarts.

That's what my long-time hunt partner Brian Cal Cobra says. Ie.: Why even chime in ? If someone posts silly nonsense, let them waste their time in that. Just means more good spots for those of us with common sense. But there's just something that fascinates me about the psychology of it, to engage persons @ "why do you believe this?" and "have you considered the more plausible explanations?" And then sit back and see how they can still put stock in it.

What got me interested, was that I got sucked into several treasure legend hunts in Mexico . Where it seems that EVERYONE believes a treasure is in seemingly every cave, every ruin, etc.... Had a emigrant employee, who, once he found out I was into md'ing, had these stories from his hometowns back in Mexico. That .... surely a metal detector would make child's play of finding more !

So off I went. For 3 weeks into the Sierra Madres of Durango Mexico. Hunting towns that dated to the time of the conquistadors. Adobe houses that lined the blocks ... 200 to 300 yrs. old. And we went in search of the various stories he'd told me about in the USA. Once we were down there, having no luck , I began to question some of the stories. And ... sure enough ... they began to fall apart as nothing but telephone game camp-fire story legends. But in the USA, they had sounded BULLET PROOF true.

So I had to stop and ask myself : "How true is this of the other stuff, that ...... eventually, sounds so concrete ? Could they too just be the human instinct to want to believe so hard ("lest you be left out") that eventually, you speak of it in first-person singular present-tense ?

Hence my interest in the psychology of it, that came out with the recent Dents Run nonsense.

Oh, and on that same trip to Mexico, in the weeks leading up to our departure, my host wanted to invest in some LRL's, with our common pot of travel $$. I bristled and said : "It's hocus pocus". But my host would not be dissuaded. He was quite taken in by the advertisements showing persons posed next to jars of coins they found "from a mile away" blah blah blah .

I could not pose an intellectual reason for why I thought they were snake oil. All I had was gut instinct. So I studied into it, and was able to talk him out of spending our $$ on this gear.

Hence my fascination (to a fault) with the psychology of "how do people fall for this nonsense ?"

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Champ Ferguson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just quit going over there, ban or not.
> > Don't give them the clicks. If the quality poste
> rs
> > quit somewhere, the forum will eventually degrad
> e
> > to just noobs and braggarts.
>
> That's what my long-time hunt partner Brian Cal Co
> bra says. Ie.: Why even chime in ? If someone po
> sts silly nonsense, let them waste their time in t
> hat. Just means more good spots for those of us
> with common sense. But there's just something th
> at fascinates me about the psychology of it, to en
> gage persons @ "why do you believe this?" and "ha
> ve you considered the more plausible explanations?
> " And then sit back and see how they can still p
> ut stock in it.
>
> What got me interested, was that I got sucked into
> several treasure legend hunts in Mexico . Where i
> t seems that EVERYONE believes a treasure is in se
> emingly every cave, every ruin, etc.... Had a em
> igrant employee, who, once he found out I was into
> md'ing, had these stories from his hometowns back
> in Mexico. That .... surely a metal detector woul
> d make child's play of finding more !
>
> So off I went. For 3 weeks into the Sierra Madres
> of Durango Mexico. Hunting towns that dated to t
> he time of the conquistadors. Adobe houses that
> lined the blocks ... 200 to 300 yrs. old. And w
> e went in search of the various stories he'd told
> me about in the USA. Once we were down there, ha
> ving no luck , I began to question some of the sto
> ries. And ... sure enough ... they began to fall
> apart as nothing but telephone game camp-fire stor
> y legends. But in the USA, they had sounded BULLE
> T PROOF true.
>
> So I had to stop and ask myself : "How true is th
> is of the other stuff, that ...... eventually, sou
> nds so concrete ? Could they too just be the hum
> an instinct to want to believe so hard ("lest you
> be left out") that eventually, you speak of it in
> first-person singular present-tense ?
>
> Hence my interest in the psychology of it, that ca
> me out with the recent Dents Run nonsense.

People need to believe in something. Belief breeds hope! So treasure legends exist, and will always exist.

I have had a few quams with you now and again. But here is the thing. When it comes to permissions, you gave me hope on a number of different view points. Where to detect and perceptions on what is allowed and what isn't. So you need to keep posting, if only for balance.

Does dowsing/LRL work? I don't know for sure.
Are things like Oak Island true? I don't know.

What I do know is, there is some truth in everything. Some magical thinking, can inspire people, too much magical thinking can distract them.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> People need to believe in something. Belief breeds
> hope! So treasure legends exist, and will always e
> xist.

Yup. Good synopsis. THAT is why it's so easy for all of us to believe in the legends (Oak Island, Lost Dutchman, Yamashita, etc....). We put aside critical thinking. We put aside "more plausible explanations". Why ? Because none of us wants to be "left out". The "what if?" factor takes over .


> When it comes to permissions, y
> ou gave me hope on a number of different view poin
> ts. Where to detect and perceptions on what is all
> owed and what isn't. So you need to keep posting,
> if only for balance.
>

Ah yes, another "bee in the bonnet" for me. Cal Cobra loves to engage me in discussions of this un-healthy fascination. Right Brian ? haha. Just kidding. He could care less. Let the pansies grovel if they want, haha

This 3rd bee-in-the-bonnet was born out of being a club president, and actually having to sort out the nonsense amongst members. And as we'd all go "seeking clarifications", I saw that our inquiries were met with "no's". In places that, quite frankly, HAD NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM BEFORE. So I began to wonder if this psychology wasn't the genesis of a lot of the supposed off-limits places that md'rs fret and lament about. And the more I looked into it (1980s & '90s), my suspicions were confirmed. Not *all* the time. Sometimes, sure, it's archies or someone who left holes. But a lot of times it's md'rs who went knocking on doors, asking permissions. And their "pressing questions" got "pressing answers", and ... presto, a law is born.

Yeah yeah, Gotta get off this other soap box now, haha. Good hearing from you Beyonder !!

My personal opinion and operating parameters are.......Science. If you can prove it or explain a logical reason train, I will consider it. Ideas are meant to be tested before they become Facts or even Beliefs. Otherwise, they are just Opinions.

I personally think some number of the legends are true. I also believe that some smart person found most all of the real ones many moons ago and was smart enough to keep his damn mouth shut. That's what I would to if I stumbled onto a fortune.

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> One day maybe I'll get to. Bet Tom & I would have
> a lot to talk about!


Carl, I've read your web "pinned" linked analysis of the subject on the net. You are, of course, analyzing them from the scientific perspective. Like taking one apart, etc... Of how it is not physically/scientifically possible. Whereas I have tended to address their comeback lines. Ie.: how they'd *think* they can dismiss the lack-of-science behind it. By using "Reductio ad absurdum" logic.

If you ever pen all your thoughts to a book or pinned web-article , I would love to co-author it, and add a few chapters to address their common come-back lines.

When I first got into metal detecting, my grandparents bought me all sorts of books. Most were treasure hunting related books from this particular area.

If you believe any of those stories, then the area around here must have been running over with lost Cherokee silver and gold, and abandoned caves/mines full of hidden treasures.

Usually they end off with some poor guy who stumbled upon it, but had no way to remove it....so he "marked it" and then some tragedy befell them before they could return, or if they did return, they never could find their markings again. And so it's just out there waiting for somebody to stumble upon it again...

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I first got into metal detecting, my grandpar
> ents bought me all sorts of books. Most were treas
> ure hunting related books from this particular are
> a.
>
> If you believe any of those stories, then the area
> around here must have been running over with lost
> Cherokee silver and gold, and abandoned caves/mine
> s full of hidden treasures.
>
> Usually they end off with some poor guy who stumbl
> ed upon it, but had no way to remove it....so he "
> marked it" and then some tragedy befell them befor
> e they could return, or if they did return, they n
> ever could find their markings again. And so it's
> just out there waiting for somebody to stumble upo
> n it again...

If you ever want to get a boat load of the stories, all you need to do is get any back issues of 1960s/70s treasure magazines. Each one was loaded with them. "Lost mines" and "stolen stage coach loot" , and "Bandit strongbox hidden", etc....

After awhile, they all sort of sounded like this: "The dying miner drags himself into the wild west saloon. The lone survivor of an indian attack. As curious bar patrons gather around him, he spills the story of fabulous riches back at his mine. They rush him to the doctor, but he dies of his wounds before being able to reclaim his fortune. Here is the 5 clues to his mine location ...: " blah blah blah.

A friend of mine even submitted one of those stories back then. To get the $50 submit-acceptance payment. Totally made up fanciful. But throw in a few faded newspaper clippings, and a drawing of a miner posed next to his buro, then ..... by golly, it MUST be true. Eh ?

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Carl, I've read your web "pinned" linked analysis of the subject on the net. You are, of course, analyzing them
> from the scientific perspective. Like taking one apart, etc... Of how it is not physically/scientifically possible.
> Whereas I have tended to address their comeback lines. Ie.: how they'd *think* they can dismiss the lack-of-science
> behind it. By using "Reductio ad absurdum" logic.

I spent the time & money obtaining & dissecting LRLs to provide the physical evidence of unworkability that no one else had provided. But I've also spent 20 years working with dowsers & LRL users, allowing them to personally show me that none of it works. I've heard every alibi in the book, both in face-to-face conversations and on the forums, so I have a tremendous reserve of information to draw from. It's a 'long haul' effort that has quite a way to go and one I'd prefer to keep solo, but when it's close expect to get a copy to proof-read.

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...... when
> it's close expect to get a copy to proof-read.


Would like that very much. To maybe see some expected comeback lines , so that they're pre-empted and accounted for.