Nox... and small gold

Goodmore..... if there is large gold out there you bet im after it, but not many water detectors miss a large gold ring if they go over it....... we do. I think we might well hit the shallow areas more and even differently. We tend to stay off those large pushed up areas of sand because we know large gold gets buried.... and a good bit of the lighter stuff TRASH is on top.... most of that sand is just fluffy correlated sand .... but light gold is there too. We dont miss much of the tiniest of silver. Right now id guess most hit the front of back of those mounds. Everything from digging to many targets, griding, covering a lot of beach, to just finding a target line is time consuming. For those with less time than me ...... they do try to work smart, well those who are finding the gold lol. We all have different styles of hunting and time limits.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:


> I've seen a few micro-jewelry items that had valua
> ble stones in them. But let's be dreadfully hone
> st: The average earring stud is just that: An ea
> ring stud. And the average tinsel thin necklace o
> r bracelet is just that: A tinsel thin chain, per
> iod. Once in a blue moon there's some sort of wi
> re-setting for some sort of emerald or diamond tha
> t ... yes .... only a specialty machine can find.
> But that is going to be rare amongst micro-jewelry
> JMHO.

I agree and for the most part you are correct. You will need a bagful of any micro jewelry for it to amount to anything...... but...... it is there....somewhere.... for the taking.
It is obviously far better to find a stud earring with a diamond in it than not. Micro jewelry is a challenge because of exactly what you've stated. You're more often going to find a small piece of something that near worthless and won't pay for your parking.
I've found a few "nice" micro gold items and they are few and far in between. I have previously found both 1/3 and 1/2 ct diamond studs, a 1 ct ruby and a 1 3/4 ct emerald. The large diamonds are worth the trouble but at the same time, rare.
We know that they are there, we know that its always a possibility..... a game of chance and when you find one or a few...you retain the motivation to get that coil low in the sand and search anyway.

Something else I will mention is that the grade of diamonds used in studs is not even close to the same grade used in ladies rings unless it is a high end custom jeweler who caters to the fat cat well to do crowd.
If I'm going to target the towel line I'm usually only going to search in front of the most expensive resort hotel where only people with extreme incomes bake themselves in the sun.
These patrons of the expensive sun bathing experience tend to buy better quality and larger pieces of the good stuff.

Honestly I'm not opposed to micro jewelry hunting but I'd rather find ladies diamond solitaires with large high quality diamonds in easier to access spots like the lightly compacted damp sand, in the overcast with 65 degree temp and low humidity..... don't wake me... I'll find it in a another few minutes.

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant

Good discussion Dew. It is clear that you've been-there-done-that with the pros & cons of this .

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom you are making an argument that you dont want
> to dig small gold......

Well, it's not that I "don't want to dig small gold". It's that most of the time, given the junk it would require, it's not worth the time. Given the relative value vs the junk you must dig. HOWEVER, you are right in that @ the wet sand, at the surf's edge, where erosion has been "taking sand out", that perhaps there's no foil .

But , ... I dunno, since I've never hunted with a machine capable of micro objects (I never got into beach pulse) during erosion events. Perhaps the dainty light-weight tinsel thin chains have been washed out ALONG WITH THE DAINTY LIGHT WEIGHT FOIL ? I dunno.

I heard of some guys in So. CA , after an erosion event, who were doing quite well on coin counts at an eroded zone. One of them looked down and eyeballed a thin chain. He ran his detector over it, and didn't get a peep ! He realized that if he hadn't eyeballed it, he would never have gotten it. So in this pocket they were working, he began to keep a keen eye out. And eyeballed a few more necklaces this way. Him and his buddies even toyed with the idea of getting a rake with tongs, and coming back to rake the entire pocket they were working. Because they suspected more that they simply couldn't see, and that their machines weren't hearing.

Not sure if the Nox would have solved this problem or not. Because a tinsel thin chain is difficult for ANY machine. I'm also not sure if they'd have been bedeviled by tttteeennnsssyy foil or not. In theory, it would be washed out. And gold (even dainty chains) is denser, thus staying behind, right ?

I'm not in agreement with the CTX being able to find as small of targets as the Nox, unless it was just how I ran the CTX. I normally ran mine in Combined mode, with my Fe line set really low...around 32-33 and used no discrimination. When I was water hunting or freshwater beach hunting, I dug everything I could get a non ferrous signal on. At one of my freshwater beaches, I had worked it pretty good on a normal schedule thru the summer last yr...although I was limited to time by trying to beat the swimmers and leave before the beach got crowded. When the fall rolled around, the swimmers stopped coming and I had it all to myself to work very thoroughly with no time restraints. I literally cleaned the place out of signals to the CTX. When I first got the Nox, that's where I wanted to take it but I didn't have the waterproof headphones. Still, I waded out as far as I could without getting the control box submerged; I didn't know if I could or not without the waterproof headphones. What I was slammed with, was a very target rich environment that came alive with the Nox..stuff that even with an open disc screen, the CTX just couldn't see or was reading as iron under the 32 Fe line. Now, the kind of targets I am referring to have mostly been small fishing weights, approx 1/32 oz to 1/8 oz sizes, fired .22 bullets and what is left of the brass shell casings for them, small eyelets on mens swimming trunks...that sort of junk. I would say from nickel range on up to coins. But there is a bunch of stuff nickel range on down, that is still there. Those 1 to 12 ID signals are what I'm referring to. If the others were there, it could find them too but the CTX did a pretty good job of getting those out of there.

This is why I like the Nox for relic hunting compared to the CTX. I never did favor the CTX for that kind of hunting; machines like the Deus, F75, MXT, Impact, etc can torque the doors off a CTX when it comes to relic hunting, and I don't mean just in places with lots of iron either. When it comes to low to mid conductors, those machines have a huge advantage over the CTX. The CTX/eTrac wheelhouse range is those higher conductor signals...that's why those coin only hunters love them. Minelab has always had that gap in their lineup. They have the best gold prospecting machines. They have what many consider to be the best coin hunting machines. But the X-Terra series was about the best they had for relics, and IMO it fell quite a bit short compared to the others. The Nox filled that gap pretty good IMO. Some people don't like it for the same reasons that I DO like it.

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Something else I will mention is that the grade of
> diamonds used in studs is not even close to the sa
> me grade used in ladies rings unless it is a high
> end custom jeweler who caters to the fat cat well
> to do crowd.
>

Pull-tab: Excellent point. To the extent that .... yes .... sometimes stones are set in micro-jewelry, yet ... the odds are .... that the truly best stones (3/4 carat & up size diamonds, or very precious emeralds) are set in rings. Not earrings.

A possible exception would be this: I've seen some pendants (worn with necklaces) that were fashioned in variations of wire-gold type jewelry mountings. Eg.: gold that is nothing more than dainty "fins" or "wire" that surrounds the stone. But this would be a rare exception.

My experience has been the CTX will hit on certain pieces of small gold at around .3 grams. Thats small. But ive also got an earring pretty good size the Nox and CTZ hit it but the Nox gets about 2 1/2" over the CTX. my finds so far both machines hit on.... but the Nox gets a bit more depth. The Nox however isnt as refined in its filtering I dont believe. So we get a lot of my minerals with very small aluminum giving it a bit more chatter. Daniel.... im running the Nox in 2 tone doing the same as you and running AM with the iron turned way down on volume. It gives me what i call a working threshold..... you hear a lot going on and there can be a nice range between iron and non-ferrous targets. It also seems to drop those iron/minerals into the iron tone where as disc you get some in the lower digit bin.

Tom we have a lot of walkers/runners that loose gold at the waters edge. Tide shift and storms can really pull a lot off the beach...or push it up. So I believe there is a pretty good concentration of gold...... yet you can run a machine over it and not hit a lot of targets. so we end up having to wait on wave movement to open it up...... or bury it further. The Gulf for the most part is a pretty calm place.

Id sure liked to have had Tom Ds input....... i have no doubt with all his testing he would have had a lot to add.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2018 05:34PM by dewcon4414.

How many of you guys are actually finding lots of chewing gum foil..... on the WET slope?

Precisely. A lot of mixing up here of fluffy dry sand experience with the actual situation on a wet compact sand ground, swept by surf. Is tiny aluminum trash prevelant there? My very limited experience suggests that it is not. Dense small targets however are likely not so easily swept up the beach or out to sea.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many of you guys are actually finding lots of
> chewing gum foil..... on the WET slope?


I don't believe I've ever found foil on the wet slope. Now this is a completely different story inland just past the wet slope..... at times, this infestation causes much apprehension to even attempt searching in the "foil abyss"

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant

If you want to puts around on the beach for matchbox cars and quarters, anything will do. If you hunger for gold, then the list of good ways to find it and good tools to do it with gets shorter.
We have a couple of decades behind us of evaluating the results of multifreaker IB detectors and PI machines. The new tweaks on multifreakerdom presented by the Nox may make a real difference in gold hunting in seawater results. Much work needs to be done to evaluate whether this is a fact or not.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Rarely do i find a gum wrapper on the slope...... i do get small can pieces and pull tabs. If i get any light foil its because of the tide changes. Ive found with the Nox it really hears tiny tiny concentrations of the aluminum on the lower slopes in the water. Like black sand it gets pushed/pulled up there. Of course we get lighter targets at the high tide level....... there you will get some gum wrapper, foil, and pesty juice lids.....oh and some jewelry like diamond rings that PARACHUTE there and uncovered enough to find. The Nox and machines like the Nox may have us hunting areas we often just didnt...... like more wet sand and those rises/humps.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many of you guys are actually finding lots of
> chewing gum foil..... on the WET slope?


I started hunting @ about 8th grade, in the mid 1970s. In 1980, got introduced to the science of beach-storm erosion hunting (coast beaches = ~ 30 min. from my city). We started bumping into guys who had figured out beach-erosion, in the preceding years. So we followed their tips and started "storm-chasing" ourselves. Figuring out tides, winds, swells, waves, etc.... as the years progressed. Hence with over 35 yrs. experience on this, let me chime in to your question:

I have always only ever hunted with regular coin-type machines. Pulse machines are not popular here, d/t no one wants to fiddle with nails. So we've always only ever seen the normal Whites, Garrets, Minelabs, etc.... Nothing that was capable of micro-jewelry.

But I can tell you this: Even though we have our disc. all way lowered , there is NEVER any foil, on the wet, following erosion. And if we DO start finding tabs or foil , we know that conditions aren't good. And we would immediately leave. Because if the erosion is right, even the tabs and aluminum screw caps would normally be washed out. In fact, I've seen conditions so good sometimes that there is not even any zinc pennies (d/t they're lighter weight coins).

So I can safely say there is no foil, or aluminum, of any sort, after the proper erosion. However, since we're not hunting with machines capable of finding ttteeennnssyy little stuff, I don't know if there is , or isn't , going to be heavier weight nuisance little junk. Like BB-sized pinhead sizes copper or lead objects. Who's to say if that stuff isn't left behind , to bedevil a micro-jewelry hunter ?

When I tried the Nox 800 for micro-jewelry in the dry sand of a high-end-tourist beach, I would say that 70 to 80% of the targets were ttteeennnnsssyyy foil zits. No bigger than a pencil lead tip. But the other 20 to 30% were conductive items that were not aluminum. Yet too small for a standard machine to have found. Annoying little things like the parts of a zipper track, or some diode from an electrical component, etc...

Hence assuming all aluminum gone, yet assuming there's still some lead or copper ttteennnssy stuff that falls into the micro-jewelry range, I'm not sure how beneficial it would be, time-wise, to dig the super low #'s after wet sand beach erosion. I sold my Nox when the market was still at the peak. But I never finished thorough testing. Basically only turf tested it (and found it to be no better than my Exp. II) and this dry sand test . But eventually Cal Cobra and I will do some more tests in ghost townsy hunts (iron-see-through tests). And if some erosion events roll through our coast, hopefully Cobra can get over to the coast, to see if there's much micro-jewelry left behind, and if the ratios of junk is worth it.

I say again...... we are NOT finding micro gold with the Nox..... especially in the water or wet sand anywhere near the water. I found one small gold today just over 1 grams...... thats as small as ive found so far. Our beaches in the Gulf are different than yours Tom. We get a lot of pushed up or pulled down pull tab and such...... but you are right the foil not there just some can slaw. Our sand mounds at various points in and out of the water based on where the waves hit and thats based on how much sand has been pushed up. Not sure why you bought the Nox? You werent interested in digging small gold (not micro)....... which was what many bragged about at the beginning. Im not certain you put in enough time with it for that awwwhaaaa moment. I never sell a machine before its paid for its self....... that forces me to learn more about it. Testing a machine is fine ........ but using it for some time is a much better way to determine its true worth. What i was looking for the Nox to do was take us from RING hunting to the next level..... finding those OTHER gold targets just beyond the sensitivity of our current multi freq machines. Im not sure the Nox met that goal even thou IMO most will be swinging it soon. It needs a little more tweaking in beach 1 for guys like me. Kind of like the average guy with a 6 cylinder car....... i want a V8....not because i plan on going faster....... i just want the extra power when i need it.

Dew

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I say again...... we are NOT finding micro gold wi
> th the Nox..... especially in the water or wet san
> d anywhere near the water. I found one small gol
> d today just over 1 grams...... thats as small as
> ive found so far. Our beaches in the Gulf are di
> fferent than yours Tom. We get a lot of pushed u
> p or pulled down pull tab and such......

Dew, then if your beaches , after erosion and sand movement , are "different" than ours, then perhaps it's simply not a case of the right conditions to be looking for the micro-jewelry in-the-first-place. Ie.: perhaps it's simply not there. Or isn't productive enough per-the-relative amounts of junk that would have to be dug.

I can definitely think of times when I suspected that there was A) all lightweight junk washed out, yet B ) micro-jewelry (chains) to be found . Because we can SEE THEM on top of the sand. And all-the-while : Are getting zero foil.

But still though: In conditions that thick, I gotta be honest with you: Those are typically conditions where we are digging targets so fast and furious, that I'm not sure how "hot & bothered" I would be, to want a tinsel thin gold chain. Nonetheless, I can think of a few times where I would have at least been interested to investigate some of those sssuuuppppeeerrr low TID's.

However, I've simply never had a machine capable of this ability. So perhaps I'm not qualified to comment. For some super high end touristy places, perhaps it's a noble venture of time-spent.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>..... Not sure
> why you bought the Nox? You werent interested in
> digging small gold (not micro)....... which was wh
> at many bragged about at the beginning.

Another bragged about forecast ability of the Nox was in the iron-see through dept. That it might be better at averaging (seeing a coin hiding behind rusty nails). This is a department that most powerhouse machines (Exp., CTX, CZ's, etc...) are weak at. I pull out machines like Bandido, Sabre, 77b, Shadow x2, etc... for such conditions. But they are admittedly wimpy on depth.

Also the factor of the water-proof ability of the Nox inspired me to try. Because at present, I am using the Exp. II for all my beach storm hunting. But the downside of that is, you have to wrap it with plastic and black tape if you're going to hunt in pouring rain or crashing surf. What a hassle. The Excal is an option for such times, but I currently did not have an Excal. Nor is the excal versatile on land . I hate the long tails [bbbeeeooonngggsss] of the audio. So I never cared for the excal or sov on land, but that's just me. The the concept of a machine that mimicked the ability and depth of an Explorer, yet was waterproof, and perhaps did better in iron-see-through, and all-the-while could go for micro-jewelry (if such a location/time ever presented itself), is what inspired me to take it for a test-drive.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....... that forces me to learn m
> ore about it. Testing a machine is fine ........
> but using it for some time is a much better way to
> determine its true worth.

Yes, in some ways I agree. And in some ways, immediately regretted floating it on Ebay. I had only tested it on turf for high-conductors. Against the mighty tried and proven Explorer. And found it be *at best* a step sideways. And I don't think most people (even on this forum) disputed those outcomes. It was said, even from the start, that it was not meant, nor necessarily able, to trump some other Minelab flagships in that regards.

So I merely extrapolated mentally to other types hunting I do (ghost-townsy sites) and figured "I don't need this".

But after I'd listed it on ebay (for the requisite 5 day period) I THEN took it to the beach the following night (since I had it for 4 more days anyhow) and started trying it there a bit . I was immediately intrigued. Not only for purposes of dry-sand on the beach (if and when I ever cared to angle for micro-jewelry) , but also immediately began to see other abilities and settings that *might* have made my turf experiments different in their outcomes. Not to mention never took it for a test drive on wet salt (no erosion going on here lately).

Thus, yes, I could see I didn't fully put it through its paces. But by then, it had garnered a bid or two on ebay. So I was bound to honor the listing. And my hunting partner here in CA has one, so it would be no problem to continue some testing, and I could always buy one later, when the prices come down.

But for 90% of my hunting, it's a function of "location location location". Not machine machine machine (provided, of course, a guy has a high-end machine. Ie.: I'd never be caught dead with low end Garretts or bounty hunters, no matter how good conditions are, haha)

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... What i was looking for
> the Nox to do was take us from RING hunting to the
> next level..... finding those OTHER gold targets j
> ust beyond the sensitivity of our current multi fr
> eq machines.

Yes. That is another possible plus for the Nox. In that .... for normal ring and coin sized targets, while it might not "best" the current arsenals, yet it might *favor* the mids and low conductors . So that, for example, on a day when all the targets are at fringe 9" or 10" depth, that ..... at the end of the day, a machine like the nox ends up with more nickels (if all other things were equal). Because it's favoring the mids & the lows. Versus other power-house coin machines like XLTs, CZ's, Explorers, CTX, etc.... tend to favor the high conductors.

As I have said: This was a characteristic of pulse beach guys versus standard coin machine discriminator guys: At the end of the days (nail-issue-aside for the moment): The pulse guys noticed a slightly higher ratio of nickels. So too might it be with the Nox. This is only a slight advantage, but .... is an advantage none-the-less. So for a fringe dainty ring, while either machine might "hear" it, yet the nox might "favor" it. If you know what I mean.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .... Kind of like the average guy with a 6 cyli
> nder car....... i want a V8....not because i plan
> on going faster....... i just want the extra power
> when i need it.
>

Yes, I notice that .... While the Nox might not replace the current market-place of machines for deep turf strategy, but on the other hand, .... even if it was a step-sideways for that .... yet at least you had a machine capable of some other things that an Explorer can't do . Eg.: waterproof, better at dainties, etc....

Not sure how much I'd capitilize on the iron-ability though. Since there's scores of machines out there today that kick-butt in this department. Eg.: Racer II, various Tesoro 2-filters, 77b, etc.... But like you say: If they can all be "under one roof", then all-the-better. Will be meeting up with Cal cobra for some flagged target tests later this fall, at some of our ghost-town sites. At present, he's busy with a new baby girl



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2018 06:58PM by Tom_in_CA.

We do agree it is kind of a step sideways........ yet they are 2 to 3 times higher in price. That alone if you cant afford the others makes the machine a winner...... and we havent even mentioned the single freqs. BUT..... the Nox is a little more favorable to the smaller gold being found. Separation of trash and treasure thou needs to be addressed. That advantage goes to the CTX because of its SmartScreen. Im honestly not looking for tinsel tiny gold im wanting a bit more small gold you might now rub on a coil and might even pick it up..... but we need a more depth/sensitivity in/near the salt water or we never know its there. Those pieces we now loose because of multi freq and salt water. The Nox i feel does a pretty good job at IDing gold near iron.... once already i pulled a small gold and in the scoop i also had a tiny iron chain and a fish hook. That impressed me. In the Gulf around me we have fine sand...... kind of like really wet concrete in some places........ or sand and tiny shells. We dont really get the erroision both coasts get... or those LONG tides unless a storm hits the Gulf. For the most part its calm ...... so once sand moves in most of it is moved by longshore drift. Im a little over 3 mos. in with the Nox and 400 hours or so...... with 20 pieces of gold..... so i know it will find it. Smallest so far..... 1 gram. BUT..... its been really good on high Karat gold that im assuming others missed..... or i was that blind squirrel. I also have 4 chains ... one being nearly 50 grams.

How can i be disappointed with those kind of finds? Because i know this machine has more potential in beach 1 in the wet sand where its less affected than in the water.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2018 08:00PM by dewcon4414.

For those who havent read the manual carefully ...... it was pointed out to me the Manual even says were are hunting at reduced power in Beach 2.

Beach 2 gives the best results when either wading or shallow diving, with the coil and/or the detector fully submerged. In the instances, the is a strong salt signal present, so BEACH 2 HAS A LOWER TRANSMIT POWER, which results in much less noise.

So now we are using less power and have a salt setting........ double whammy on the small gold like chains. If that isnt enough..... if you go over a shallow beer can there is a BEACH OVERLOAD INDICATOR that might come on ... heres what it says

Beach mode auto senses black sand and REDUCES THE TRANSMIT POWER to ensure that targets can still be detected without overlaoding occurring.

Ive never seen that overload indicator .... or should i say never noticed it. So we tested it in the water in Beach 2 over a shallow beer can. It comes on....... so now you have a third reduction in sensitivity to small gold. Oh .... and we noticed it will NOT go off in the water in Beach 2 unless you hold you coil out of the water briefly. It will in beach 1. So ..... what if you dont see notice that indicator???

NOW...... who thinks we are going to get really small gold in the salt water as it currently stands?

Dial M for Murder

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Dew,

How many 'Tester's' stood out neck deep in saltwater like you do five days a week and put the detector thru its paces?

One...none?

In the winter we saw video of a fellow at waters edge on a windy beach!

Was that about the extent of it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2018 09:55PM by Des D.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
....
>
> NOW...... who thinks we are going to get really sm
> all gold in the salt water as it currently stands?

Dew: Interesting point. I just naturally assumed I could replicate the dry sand results I was getting (which were great for micro-jewelry) on the wet sand. But you might have a point: That same ability may not be nearly as repeatable, when on the wet-salt . Hmmmm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2018 10:20PM by Tom_in_CA.

Des.......i put my time in.... i just love being outside. Im seriously not complaining about the Nox finding gold...... because me and lot of others are. But ive also noticed those real world finds ...... size and weight. So multi freq in the water appears to still struggle on the small gold. Yet there does seem to be improvements in the wet sand......but i believe a tweak or two by ML would further improve that.

Man Des didnt he look cold lol. He was in there long enough to say it swung well and ran smooth. No argument there...... but at what cost? Des i was told at the time of testing no one had a pair of waterproof phones. I know Gary D got a pair .... but by that time he was testing the phones NOT the detector.

I think that is what the Seawater mode on the CTX does as well, it reduces transmit power to make the operation smoother with lese chatter. Before they put the Seawater mode on it, there were lots of people complaining about the unstability and false signals from the CTX on the beach and especially in the water. My guess is, beach 1 is the equiv to the CTX in beach mode and beach 2 is the Seawater mode equiv. That's why I think they recommend turning the seawater mode off when not in the water...in damp and dry sand with seawater mode off, the CTX will hit stuff deeper than you really want to fool with. Just a guess. We are all just guessing and trying to figure out the workings of the modes and Multi IQ.

Daniel uou seem to be saying thats how all salt water machines may work. So a salt setting is just reduced power. Aussy land confuses me some time with terms like skid plates. Do you think they mean reduced power to the coil or just reduced sensitivity? One we may be able like Tom said to duplicate setting. ...the other is out of our hands.

No I'm not saying or implying that at all. I'm just recalling the intro of the CTX3030. When it rolled out, it did not get great reviews from beach hunters. They said it was too unstable to use in the saturated sand and in the water so Minelab developed a "patch" which was the Seawater mode. I'm guessing that is what they implemented into the Nox, and may be what makes the Beach modes be different than the Park & Field modes. I don't really know. I'm just guessing.

There seems to be a few different stages in which people are with the Nox right now. Some are still trying to figure out if its worth buying. Some have it, and are comparing it to their other machines to see if its a keeper or not. And then the ones that have moved beyond the "yes it is a keeper for me" stage and are trying to figure out what makes it do what it does and how to get the most out of it. That's where I find myself. I've stacked it against what I own and did all the comparison stuff. I had my "ahhh ha" moments. Now I'm trying to get into the more advanced stuff with it. Since I have my underwater phones now, I am hoping to get out Thursday and dunk mine.

Well i think most people missed the implication of reduced power/sensitivity IN the salt water. I for one dont want to use a tiny coil on a huge beach trying to gain some of that sensitivity back on SMALL gold, .... once again im not talking about TINY gold. The more sensitivity we lost in the process the more NOTHING changed as a beach machine. What we got was a cheaper, lighter, faster, all around machine replacement for the Xcal........ it doesnt quit match the CTX for do it all mostly IMO because of the SmartScreen. Still not the ultimate beach machine.......... like Tom-CA said we kind of went sideways. Id just like ML to take another look at tweaking the machine for SMALL gold....... i think its possible. I realize the main concern was to have it run as stable as possible........ apparently they saw some of their own guys videos showing it bouncing and chattering near the salt water and dumbed it down...... a bit to much maybe? For most...... the machine meet all their needs and was blown away by the price. But for some of us......its as good as we had.....but it didnt obsolete anything in the water...... my hopes was a nice leap to build a platform on.

Your assumption that there is in fact small gold to be found that you are missing may be entirely false.

With certainty ……. it's there.,.,.,.,., I promise.

I dont assume anything...... like Tom im certain we arent quit there. To many people think their machine if turned to AM is finding it all........ now theres the bad assumption. BUT if every machine you have ever hunted with only found rings ....... and we know there is a ton of jewelry worn that isnt rings .... or even are small rings....you think people dont loose them? Common sense tells me just because i havent been able to find it dont mean it aint there. Why arent we making the same assumption that there arent any heavy rings just out of detector range?....... why because our machines will find them IF they get within the sensitivity range because of sand movement. Same affect..... just smaller target and shallower depth.

Quote

And then the ones that have moved beyond the "yes it is a keeper for me" stage and are trying to figure out what makes it do what it does and how to get the most out of it. That's where I find myself.

I am here. I am not convinced I am finding anything my other machines wouldn't find. I am convinced that this machine is just as good, much lighter, and much cheaper, which makes it a huge win in my book. And now that I have my waterproof headphones, its that much better.

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2018 01:07PM by adamBomb.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont assume anything...... like Tom im certain w
> e arent quit there. To many people think their m
> achine if turned to AM is finding it all........ n
> ow theres the bad assumption. BUT if every machi
> ne you have ever hunted with only found rings ....
> ... and we know there is a ton of jewelry worn tha
> t isnt rings .... or even are small rings....you t
> hink people dont loose them? Common sense tells
> me just because i havent been able to find it dont
> mean it aint there. Why arent we making the sam
> e assumption that there arent any heavy rings just
> out of detector range?....... why because our mach
> ines will find them IF they get within the sensiti
> vity range because of sand movement. Same affect
> ..... just smaller target and shallower depth.



I know, I've heard the argument before. It must be there, they assume, so something must be amiss with the machine.

You are entitled to think however you want, but there is no way to quantify your argument, even slightly. We don't know what is there until it is found, and if it isn't found, it may not even be there to be found. Now, if you went to the same beach with detector A and found nothing, but the next day hit the jackpot with detector B, then you'd have an argument.

I haven't found many dimes from the 1860's lately, do I need a new machine of perhaps maybe I should try different locations ? Anyhow, I get jaded from this topic quick as to me, "small gold" is not even worth the effort to track down in the first place.

I honestly think the small jewelry thing can go either way. Meaning that even with a capable detector, some people are going to be surprised at what they do find, and some will be surprised at what they don't find. I've been down this road on two other levels for relic hunting: depth and unmasking.

There were places we were "certain" that the sites were loaded IF we could get a machine that could get down deep enough to get to the stuff. I would have bet the farm on it. Spent a good chunck of money pursuing it too. Finally hit upon a machine that could go deeper than anything anyone had previously had in this area and while SOME finds were made in that 1 to 1.5 foot deep range, it wasn't what we had always dreamed about. The same goes for the iron unmasking side of it. We shifted out thought process and said "okay, so there wasn't as many deep targets as we thought there was gonna be...but I bet there's still a whole new world of finds to uncover in the thick iron and tin filled sites". So we pursue the best of the best in detectors for unmasking. And truthfully, haven't set the world on fire like we thought. Certainly of benefit to try but mostly, just came up with small non ferrous junk...the "coulda been something good" type stuff that wasn't, and the occasional goodie to keep you going. I see it like this...if it gets you outside doing something active, than its worth something. But for me pereonally, I gave up on the dream of hitting it big with places of loaded silver and gold and relics. I just take the scraps and bits that make it a hobby and not a profession. I seem to be content with that.