Is this why the Nox is finding in well hunted areas?

I've been finding more coins and small flat buttons on edge with the Nox than any other unit in well detected areas, even morso than with the Deus lF coils.
Maybe Calabash or someone else with both units could try this comparison.
A nail or piece of iron elevated above a coin, with a gap just big enough to make it miss a silver dime laying flat (just like Keith was talking about in his last video) then again with the coin on edge.

I was quite impressed that the Nox was smacking the coin on edge with both fast / slow sweep speeds.

[youtu.be]

"That's gotta be the most bizarre video I've seen in ages! Mine lab aren't gonna like it!

Quote from "The Beverly Hillbilly's": "Jed, you've got some explainin' to do!"

That's wild!

Coins on edge will throw the signal off a few inches. I'm thinking it throws it off enough to signal on it.. most on edge coins I've dug have pinpointed off to one side.

I think the previous hunters that hunted it out were just not using as good of a machine as the Nox or just not good with the machine if it was better than the Nox. Etc

I have 2 places I’ve hunted many times,my friend has hunted many times and we know of other people personally who have hunted it to some extent. One of these places turns on and off like a light switch,and I absolutely kid you not. One day I’ll go in with my usual setup and I can’t make a coin give me a signal to save my life. This is a fairly confined area,in total about a quarter the size of a football field. The next time I go it lights up with signals,and they are all over. I cannot dig signals fast enough,and these are largely wheats from the 40’s with some Mercs and a sprinkling of older silver here and there no deeper than 8”. I’m excited about my success and go a third time on a third day...shut off. The only signals are very shallow clad and even THEY sound suspicious...broken,”scratchy”,etc. NOT a solid signal at all. This has happened with my single but adjustable freq IDX,Explorer2 and the CTX,along with my buddies ATPro.
The second place seems to be very “moisture sensitive”. There are generally things to find,but depth suffers greatly on copper coins when it’s dry. This does not seem to affect the silver coins though,even when VERY dry they still come from 8-9” fairly reliably. Wheats really break up past the 6-7” range when dry even running any of the machines at 3/4 throttle or even above that. But it’s not TOTALLY shut down or TOTALLY wide open with targets.
These are just a couple of scenarios which can make one machine appear to be magic while another on a different day may look like a real dud. I know a lot of guys take the new machine to their favorite pounded place and they are having success with the EQ. We’ve seen enough cases already where it should be able to have a comfortable berth is most people’s collection. I’m always a bit suspicious when the “next great thing” comes along but only one thing matters to ME. Does it find more deep or difficult old coins? The Explorer did,the CTX did,and this one will too when it’s time to buy. There are enough anomalies,terrible soil conditions,EMI,etc. that while we would LOVE to be able to quantify all of those things and then be able to determine what to do in each and every case...we can’t. Some things we can mitigate,or if a situation is bad enough,just leave the site for a better one. But there will always be variables which are out of our control,so as end users of a machine,all we can normally say is,”Did it find me more of what I’m looking for?” No matter how the target was oriented,or if there was trash nearby,or if EMI was causing interference...did it find what I’m looking for? When it’s all said and done,while all of the technical specs are fascinating to ponder,I care less about HOW it works and more about THAT it works. It really does appear that the EQ works.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been finding more coins and small flat button
> s on edge with the Nox than any other unit in well
> detected areas, even morso than with the Deus lF c
> oils.
> Maybe Calabash or someone else with both units cou
> ld try this comparison.
> A nail or piece of iron elevated above a coin, wit
> h a gap just big enough to make it miss a silver d
> ime laying flat (just like Keith was talking about
> in his last video) then again with the coin on edg
> e.
>
> I was quite impressed that the Nox was smacking th
> e coin on edge with both fast / slow sweep speeds.
>
> [youtu.be]

In my thread here, I think I ask if anyone had done test with on edge coins.
I was finding coins in places I know had been detected hard (with supposed worthy detectors) . I suspected some thing going on.

Quote is from the Lucille Ball show when Desi says "Lucy you got some esplaining to do" in his thick Cuban accent.

robocop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote is from the Lucille Ball show when Desi says
> "Lucy you got some esplaining to do" in his thick
> Cuban accent.


"You're correct! I was mixed-up. But, the point was made...someone has some explaining to do!

Ghound's video CLEARLY showed a bent bolt being rejected and a Merc dime a lot away also being rejected flat on to the coil.
But, standing coin edge it gets picked up with good detections!
Why???????

I don't know Des, i could slow down to a snale pace and pickup the coin sitting flat, i was using my normal settings with a recovery speed of 6.
I just don't have another detector with a similar size coil to compare with, i might borrow my mates Deus to try.

I think what you see is because of the EXACT SPACING of the targets used. The center and edges of the coil are in play and when the coin gets turned on edge it is JUST enough to “turn on” one target while “turning off” the other.

I set the space to where the coin was just dropping out when laid flat, maybe the coil has a blind spot of sorts.

I helped develop all Minelab's range with the exception of the Equinox, Go Find, GPZ as I had departed by then.
The kind of Test you showed I used to do all day every day and far as I can remember, never witnessed a null out with a bolt and a coin spaced a foot apart.
I'll have to watch your Video again and Note the Settings used.

It was my experience that 'quite a few' of the FBS series and X-Terra's were 'quite good' at picking up [ on-edge ] coins - the Safari was surprisingly adept at this!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 11:26AM by Des D.

If he dropped the sensitivity down, I believe he would of detected the flat coin. I feel the edge of the search field was still hitting the bent bolt while over the dime and because the dime is flat, they are both being hit at the same time, with the bolt being more prominent..

The Nox, its actual capabilities, I am not sure they can be really be exposed with rigged tests. Lots going on inside the circuitry. Not cut and dried.
I can say with 100% certainty. Nox can give full tones over nonferrous signals, where many other detectors may give nothing, a tick, a broken tone, stutter, or may indeed give fuller tone.
And ID using Nox seems on average to be less compromised on challenged nonferrous vs ALL the other detectors I have used.

And some gee whiz info here for folks.
Equinox will using single freq ops, does seem to up average some targets ID wise, yet when one switches to multi freq, loads of these same nonferous targets checked will NOT up average at all. Equinox tends to read lower than actual target ID using multi freq if it is in error



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 02:29PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Nox, its actual capabilities, I am not sure they can be really be exposed with rigged tests.


Really???????

Just a smidge of irony here.

dave_e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Nox, its actual capabilities, I am not su
> re they can be really be exposed with rigged tests
> .
>
>
> Really???????
>
> Just a smidge of irony here.

No irony.
A few questions.

Why didn’t Minelab just make a super single freq detector, or a detector where mulitple single freqs could be selected?

Evidently their testing showed some thing where employing multi freq would indeed do better. (Maybe in wider range of applications).
And Minelab it seems didn’t make just another fbs detector (using higher freqs) either. Wonder why?

I sure would like to be able to hang out in Minelab’s lab for a month or 2.
Sure would be interesting.

I wonder how much power consumption played into the big picture with multi IQ development.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 03:20PM by tnsharpshooter.

Field 1
Sens 2
Everything accepted
Reactivity 6
Iron Bias 0
Rusty CURVED item - large nail or a bolt?
8.5" apart and not the 12" 'it looked like' at first glance

That's what I saw you dial in I believe?

So I attempt to 're-create' your experiment 'cept I don't currently have a Nox: so I used a E Trac.
Even had a 'curved' ferrous piece exactly as you had AND a silver Mercury dime.

The first attempt didn't work out as the ET was 'too powerful' and was signalling wildly so I raised up the books off the bench and reduced Sensitivity to 10.
But, I couldn't re-create what you filmed.
The 'advantage' you have over the ET is, the Nox is giving the correct Ferrous sound over the bolt.

Tried it again with Iron Mask on 31 and managed to null out the bolt and get 2 beeps evenly spaced on the dime as it lay flat and 2 very rapid close together beeps edge on.

Anyone...

I had the sens on 20
I lose the flat sitting coin with a gap of 9 inch, and the coin on edge at 6 inch. Remember the rusty bolt is elevated near 2 inch above the coin

Interesting... I wonder what would happen if the dime was rotated 90 degrees to a parallel axis rather than a perpendicular if that would work? I notice that the space is very close to the width of the 11 inch coil, if the 6 inch was used would the distance reduce to near 6 inches or go away completely? My 6 came yesterday, but I don't know when I would have time to test it myself. Nice work finding this quirk!

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

I have simialr results to Ghound using my Nox. Using very similar looking iron too. Flat dime hard to detect to non detection. On edge, Nox smokes it. Good two tone.

air

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.
>
> And some gee whiz info here for folks.
> Equinox will using single freq ops, does seem to u
> p average some targets ID wise, yet when one switc
> hes to multi freq, loads of these same nonferous t
> argets checked will NOT up average at all. Equino
> x tends to read lower than actual target ID using
> multi freq if it is in error


tn -- this is not always true.

I have noticed something FREQUENTLY, especially on Indian Head Pennies that are very deep, where the Equinox will "up average" the IDs significantly, at least from a few "sectors" or "angles" as you rotate the target. I may get "semi-normal" Indian Head tones and IDs from one sweep angle/sector, but then rotating 45 or 90 degrees will often result in tones and IDs ramping up into the upper 20s, to as high as 30 or 31, repeatedly (until I rotate some more, and the tones/IDs ramp back down). This is without any -- as far as I can tell -- "obvious" iron in the hole (nails or whatever). Not sure if this is a result of the EQ being influenced by some unknown adjacent target just off the edge of the coil, in some sectors of rotation, or what, but I CAN say that this happens frequently enough to me that I've begun to EXPECT and LOOK FOR it. In other words, this behavior has repeated itself enough times that it's become somewhat of a pattern...and this is in Multi-IQ, Park 1 mode, not single freq.

So, to say the EQ does not up-average in Multi-IQ is not something to "bank" on...

Finally, that is not to say that the EQ will not "down average" as well just as you said -- it DOES. On those very same IH pennies that will "high tone" from some angles, often from the other angles where I said I get "semi-normal" IH tones and IDs, those "semi-normal" tones and IDs are actually a bit lower than an IHP should give -- often 18 or 19 on the VDI...so yes -- it seems the EQ can and will do both; it seems to consistently DOWN AVERAGE on deep targets through many or most angles of rotation, but -- will on some of these targets -- then switch around and UP-AVERAGE on multiple sweeps from other sectors or rotation -- all on the very same target...

Steve

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> .
> >
> > And some gee whiz info here for folks.
> > Equinox will using single freq ops, does seem to
> u
> > p average some targets ID wise, yet when one swi
> tc
> > hes to multi freq, loads of these same nonferous
> t
> > argets checked will NOT up average at all. Equi
> no
> > x tends to read lower than actual target ID usin
> g
> > multi freq if it is in error
>
>
> tn -- this is not always true.
>
> I have noticed something FREQUENTLY, especially on
> Indian Head Pennies that are very deep, where the
> Equinox will "up average" the IDs significa
> ntly, at least from a few "sectors" or "angles" as
> you rotate the target. I may get "semi-normal" In
> dian Head tones and IDs from one sweep angle/secto
> r, but then rotating 45 or 90 degrees will often r
> esult in tones and IDs ramping up into the upper 2
> 0s, to as high as 30 or 31, repeatedly (until I ro
> tate some more, and the tones/IDs ramp back down).
> This is without any -- as far as I can tell -- "ob
> vious" iron in the hole (nails or whatever). Not
> sure if this is a result of the EQ being influence
> d by some unknown adjacent target just off the edg
> e of the coil, in some sectors of rotation, or wha
> t, but I CAN say that this happens frequently enou
> gh to me that I've begun to EXPECT and LOOK FOR it
> . In other words, this behavior has repeated itse
> lf enough times that it's become somewhat of a pat
> tern...and this is in Multi-IQ, Park 1 mode, not s
> ingle freq.
>
> So, to say the EQ does not up-average in Multi-IQ
> is not something to "bank" on...
>
> Finally, that is not to say that the EQ will not "
> down average" as well just as you said -- it DOES.
> On those very same IH pennies that will "high tone
> " from some angles, often from the other angles wh
> ere I said I get "semi-normal" IH tones and IDs, t
> hose "semi-normal" tones and IDs are actually a bi
> t lower than an IHP should give -- often 18 or 19
> on the VDI...so yes -- it seems the EQ can and wil
> l do both; it seems to consistently DOWN AVERAGE o
> n deep targets through many or most angles of rota
> tion, but -- will on some of these targets -- then
> switch around and UP-AVERAGE on multiple sweeps fr
> om other sectors or rotation -- all on the
> very same target...
>
> Steve


If you will go back up and read, I said loads of targets would not up average using mulit freq. I never said all.

I generally don’t use “ absolutes” when describing a detector model’s tendencies.
Just too many variables out there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 08:56PM by tnsharpshooter.

TNDavid....That’s what we are always fighting,your last sentence above=“Just too many variables out there”. If that isn’t the truest thing ever said about detecting,I don’t know what is! It is also the very thing that ALWAYS gives us a crack at a good find. If we had a machine that would find EVERYTHING reliably,well...that wouldn’t be any fun would it?

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TNDavid....That’s what we are always fighting,your
> last sentence above=“Just too many variables out t
> here”. If that isn’t the truest thing ever said ab
> out detecting,I don’t know what is! It is also the
> very thing that ALWAYS gives us a crack at a good
> find. If we had a machine that would find EVERYTHI
> NG reliably,well...that wouldn’t be any fun would
> it?

There are textbook signals.
There are borderline textbook signals.
There are I would only dig on my worst day signals.
And there are no signals.

Funny thing about detecting.
A target rich environment not always the best place to hit the big one.
We as detectorists get lured maybe by the so-called fool’s gold.
And then someone comes behind us, and they by not getting hardly any or maybe no worthier signals, start taking chances and BINGO.

All relative the way a detectors can work for us.

The problem is some detectors (by way of audio) seem to give us more to go on vs others on the so, so targets (challenged wise).

And when we locate and recover one challenged find we think we have it licked maybe. Maybe not.

I can say, so far the one detector and coil that has really found nonferrous in the iron has been the Deus and elliptical Hf coil.
Scond ranking goes to Nokta Impact with elliptical 4x7” coil
Third ranking goes to the “seems forgotten” Nokta Relic detector with 5” round dd coil.

These 3 above with respective coils have proved themselves to me.

Too early to rate Equinox and 6” coil yet as far as hunting in ferrous.
I can rate it for modern trash though= dynamite.

Could there be another great detector and coil combo on the near horizon?

Btw a microscopic adjustable test jig and a GPS with super duper fine rate of speed measuremet attached to coil, and something to gauge coil height above a scenario.
If we used these I think we could start seeing these small differences offered by the different detectors. And maybe a audio amp pumping up the sound without comprising it so see all could hear by way of you tube the what is happening.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 11:36PM by tnsharpshooter.

Fabulously written and explained post stevg

What I have noticed, and you can observer in my videos, is that there is an algorithm at work here. I notice that, on the outset, all types of targets can blip high tone, then as you go over the target, it seems to "settle down" and act like the target should act(If it is a pull tab the numbers and tone reflects that it is).

I notice this with deep wheats. You get a high blip, then the TID will bounce from low 20's to a 27/28 rarely a 30. I know it's a wheat when this happens as the low 20's give it away.

A a deep silver dime, the high tones are more consistent. The TID may drop to 24/25 but there will be more 28-29-30 in the mix.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> .
> >
> > And some gee whiz info here for folks.
> > Equinox will using single freq ops, does seem to
> u
> > p average some targets ID wise, yet when one swi
> tc
> > hes to multi freq, loads of these same nonferous
> t
> > argets checked will NOT up average at all. Equi
> no
> > x tends to read lower than actual target ID usin
> g
> > multi freq if it is in error
>
>
> tn -- this is not always true.
>
> I have noticed something FREQUENTLY, especially on
> Indian Head Pennies that are very deep, where the
> Equinox will "up average" the IDs significa
> ntly, at least from a few "sectors" or "angles" as
> you rotate the target. I may get "semi-normal" In
> dian Head tones and IDs from one sweep angle/secto
> r, but then rotating 45 or 90 degrees will often r
> esult in tones and IDs ramping up into the upper 2
> 0s, to as high as 30 or 31, repeatedly (until I ro
> tate some more, and the tones/IDs ramp back down).
> This is without any -- as far as I can tell -- "ob
> vious" iron in the hole (nails or whatever). Not
> sure if this is a result of the EQ being influence
> d by some unknown adjacent target just off the edg
> e of the coil, in some sectors of rotation, or wha
> t, but I CAN say that this happens frequently enou
> gh to me that I've begun to EXPECT and LOOK FOR it
> . In other words, this behavior has repeated itse
> lf enough times that it's become somewhat of a pat
> tern...and this is in Multi-IQ, Park 1 mode, not s
> ingle freq.
>
> So, to say the EQ does not up-average in Multi-IQ
> is not something to "bank" on...
>
> Finally, that is not to say that the EQ will not "
> down average" as well just as you said -- it DOES.
> On those very same IH pennies that will "high tone
> " from some angles, often from the other angles wh
> ere I said I get "semi-normal" IH tones and IDs, t
> hose "semi-normal" tones and IDs are actually a bi
> t lower than an IHP should give -- often 18 or 19
> on the VDI...so yes -- it seems the EQ can and wil
> l do both; it seems to consistently DOWN AVERAGE o
> n deep targets through many or most angles of rota
> tion, but -- will on some of these targets -- then
> switch around and UP-AVERAGE on multiple sweeps fr
> om other sectors or rotation -- all on the
> very same target...
>
> Steve

This is my experience as well. Beyonder is correct that there is an algorithm involved as it is repetitive. I can call a copper penny every time based on this pattern.

Dean

Thanks Des. I much appreciate the kind words...

Beyonder -- I completely agree with you. That is exactly how I decide if I'm dealing with either a wheat/Indian, OR a silver (or clad) dime or quarter. On the Indians (and sometimes the wheats), those bounces to high tone that I mentioned are less consistent, through fewer angles/sectors...meanwhile, the lower numbers/tones (upper teens and low 20s) being prevalent are the signal that it's a wheat or Indian. When the high-tone/high ID numbers are more consistent, through more angles/sectors, and the lower tones/IDs are fewer, that's the clue that it's either silver, or a clad dime (and sometimes a high-reading Memorial).

Steve