Iron Bias Equinox info

Iron Bias from Minelab owners:

"It’s an extra control to fine-tune the detector to limit iron falsing. This type of falsing often happens if the iron targets are complex, like Hex screws and Roman hobnails.

If on the site you’re on you get false signals. Turn the setting up until it stops. Setting “1” is like most fast single frequency detectors with some iron falsing. A setting of “9” would make it CTX3030 stable with very little falsing.

Although it’s tempting to ramp this setting right up to “9”, it will reduce the recovery rate from detecting iron to a non-ferrous target.
So it’s best to use this control frugally.

I tend to keep the setting to “4” on Field 1 and slightly higher on Field 2."

Posted here(and maybe only here) as I am getting sick of forum nazis on other forums who just delete your posts if they feel like it with no explanation.

thanks

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iron Bias from Minelab owners:
>
> "It’s an extra control to fine-tune the detector t
> o limit iron falsing. This type of falsing often h
> appens if the iron targets are complex, like Hex s
> crews and Roman hobnails.
>
> If on the site you’re on you get false signals. T
> urn the setting up until it stops. Setting “1” is
> like most fast single frequency detectors with som
> e iron falsing. A setting of “9” would make it CTX
> 3030 stable with very little falsing.
>
> Although it’s tempting to ramp this setting right
> up to “9”, it will reduce the recovery rate from d
> etecting iron to a non-ferrous target.
> So it’s best to use this control frugally.
>
> I tend to keep the setting to “4” on Field 1 and s
> lightly higher on Field 2."
>
> Posted here(and maybe only here) as I am getting s
> ick of forum nazis on other forums who just delete
> your posts if they feel like it with no explanatio
> n.

Why is CTX mentioned in your posting??
I am a bit confused.

And what is your source exactly for this info.
Especially since detector is not released.

That's a quote from one of the mods on minelab owners

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a quote from one of the mods on minelab own
> ers


Alright, thanks.
Still strange.
How would they know how iron bias affects CTX? Unless they have a CTX designed with such a settings option??
Or maybe it is a typo.

Yeah, this what it is likely.

Thanks again Beyonder.
Look forward to your thoughts and commentary, and your videos on the Equinox.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 01:55AM by Sod-buster.

Sod-buster,

What the person was saying was, if you set it at 9, you would get very little falsing, sort of like the amount of falsing you get on a CTX...

He was comparing how "falsy" the different settings were, and saying the higher you run the Equinox, the less "falsy" it is...and when you max it out at "9," that's a very low amount of falsing "like the CTX."

Steve

OH,
Okay Steve and Beyonder, it was a comparison quote actually. My bad.

No big deal. I will post videos air tests unboxing anything I can weather and time permitting. I am first on my dealers list so I am hoping to get it earlier than most.

Iron Bias on '9' .... is what the CTX performs.... and is 'fixed' at.
Iron Bias on '0' .... provides the best/most unmasking (in iron)....... at the cost of more falsing...... which can be skill-set 'learned'.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iron Bias on '9' .... is what the CTX performs....
> and is 'fixed' at.
> Iron Bias on '0' .... provides the best/most unmas
> king (in iron)....... at the cost of more falsing.
> ..... which can be skill-set 'learned'.


Nice feature to be able to dial it to whatever point one wants/needs to. Should be a feature on all machines!

Admittedly = I not one that jumped on the wagon by throwing my $$ at a unit 4 months before release and I won't be spending my $$ on one if it can't pass the coin below iron test shown here >>

[www.youtube.com]

when I see it pass this test = is when I'll buy into it, test it against my CTX in all other aspects and then decide which one to keep/which one to sell (if either) but if it can't pass this test -- then there's no sense in spending the $$ on it in the 1st place in my opinion (especially if one already owns a ctx, etrac, safari, expl, etc) multi freq. machine.

Is this anything like on the CZ20 with its GB adjustment which you can use to knock out those tiny pieces of iron?

Oddly enough, i asked a UK equinox tester that very thing yesterday, he said it would pass the test easy, though he also said the ctx passes the test, so wither or not to believe him is open, as i've never ran a ctx, or seen it pass the test.
He also stated the Equinox was as fast in multi as the Deus, so it's either a superdupper unit, or he's full of poop!

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
---------------------------------------------
> Admittedly = I not one that jumped on the wagon by
> throwing my $$ at a unit 4 months before release a
> nd I won't be spending my $$ on one if it can't pa
> ss the coin below iron test shown here >>
>
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> when I see it pass this test = is when I'll buy in
> to it, test it against my CTX in all other aspects
> and then decide which one to keep/which one to sel
> l (if either) but if it can't pass this test -- th
> en there's no sense in spending the $$ on it in th
> e 1st place in my opinion (especially if one alrea
> dy owns a ctx, etrac, safari, expl, etc) multi fre
> q. machine.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oddly enough, i asked a UK equinox tester that ver
> y thing yesterday, he said it would pass the test
> easy, though he also said the ctx passes the test,
> so wither or not to believe him is open, as i've n
> ever ran a ctx, or seen it pass the test.
> He also stated the Equinox was as fast in multi as
> the Deus, so it's either a superdupper unit, or he
> 's full of poop!

LoL

well, from what we see in the video the CTX was running the stock 11" coil and the Deus the 11" too

he ran the ctx wide open screen accepting all metals but the deus had a disc setting of 10 yet the ctx couldn't see the target like the deus did even with disc added on the deus.

That's why my Deus isn't going anywhere anytime soon and until I see the EQ pass this test with the same size coil neither is my CTX

I'm gonna build one of those 2x4 contraptions like he has for testing the deus and ctx (and other machines in the future) the same as he did but I'll try different settings/etc to see if I can get the ctx to hit a coin. I'll test the 6" coil too - might have a better chance with that coil size even though it's not the same as another unit hitting a coin with a coil 2xs the size of another but it'll be interesting to see what comes out in the wash

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"Is this anything like on the CZ20 with its GB adjustment which you can use to knock out those tiny pieces of iron?"

.

I have the CZ20 but have never heard of that. How do you do it?

.

MRH ....... EXTREMELY good video....... and correct data. This is exactly what I've been pushing/preaching for the last 4-decades....... and............................... for the first time............................ we are now starting to see detectors that bring into consideration the 'Z'-axis. The 3rd dimension. Better known as: "The Real World". This is a mandatory/critical test. . . . . and needs to be a major part in one's test-garden (and Mfr engineering lab).

Some have said here, metal detector manufacturers don't test, gauge other brands/models of detectrors (the competition) when engineering and designing detectors.

Would be hard to prove this to me, based on the chart I think shown at the recent conference.

Maybe a question here for someone.

Just what detector models will pass the test in video above wearing an 11" round coil?

For those seemingly better detectors in iron that don't have round 11" coils available, would they if they were made??
I have my own opinion, will reserve though.

Don't want to look like I'm beating up on any manufacturer or model(s) detectors.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 02:20PM by Sod-buster.

Quote

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

MRH ....... EXTREMELY good video....... and correct data. This is exactly what I've been pushing/preaching for the last 4-decades....... and............................... for the first time............................ we are now starting to see detectors that bring into consideration the 'Z'-axis. The 3rd dimension. Better known as: "The Real World". This is a mandatory/critical test. . . . . and needs to be a major part in one's test-garden (and Mfr engineering lab).

Agreed Tom,

and with all we know these days as diggers in relation to what we (need) in/of a machine to best help us in finding/unmasking desired targets, if manufacturers don't focus on and incorp. the "real world" ability into detectors to the point of being able to hit on targets in that 3d scenario (as the Deus does) then we may as well just buy and continue to use older/used units instead of paying top dollar for the same old same old being pumped out and hyped up every year. I mean, just because a unit can pass a 2 dimensional coin next to a nail test with lightning speed/etc doesn't mean it's any better than the last one that could do the same IF it can't unlock/see targets in 3d.

Here's to hoping the EQ passes the test

If not then as I said = it's a no thanks for me/I'll just keep what I have and keep playing around with some of the older tried/true units on the cheap until something else comes along that does work in that 3d scenario.

All my Deeptech units have passed this test Smart Smart+ and Gold

Ive been thinking about the Nox. I'm wondering how the tones will do in the iron. I have my deus set up where it will scream on the non ferrous in iron. Heres a video of it on 3 d nail test with a 1/2/ reale.iron test video

Calabash digger do you mind sharing that screaming program? Thanks for video.

Some years back I did a nailboard test with the CTX (and E-Trac) that showed how sensitive the FBS machines are to elongated iron (using a penny). Granted it was a 2-D test, but the 3-D test should be no surprise.

I produced a bunch of graphs from the study, but the upshot was if the nail is parallel (north-south) to the sweep the Co value remained stable no matter the nail-coin distance but the Fe value was only stable until 1" separation, then Fe rose (up-averaged from 12Fe to 18Fe at 1/8" separation). The open screen up-averaged much more than when moderate Disc was used - oddly enough (Disc limited the Fe up-averaging keeping it more stable, Fe rising 15% as compared to the open screen up-averaging of about 30%).

However, if the nail is perpendicular (east-west) to the sweep then the Disc pattern raises the Fe value to the screen bottom (iron) at closer than 1" separation. At greater than 1" separation using Disc, the Co value remained steady (about 10% up-averaging) and the Fe value was up-averaged about 30%. To still get the coin at closer than 1" separation required an open screen. However, with an open screen at less than 1" separation, the Fe values became erratic with strong Fe up-averaging as the nail-coin distance pushed closer. With the open screen the Fe value at 1/2" separation were up-averaged by 40%, at 1/8" it was pushed upward by 55% and with the nail on top of the coin by nearly 60%. At the same time with an open screen, the Co values remained steady with similar up-averaging (10%) as the Disc setup, but becoming more erratic closer than about 1". But closer than 1/2" separation the Co up-averaging began to increase and at 0.5" or less it up-averaging by about 20%.

Hard to follow, I know, but the upshot was that any perpendicularly orientated, elongated iron within 1" or less of a non-ferrous target (in the horizontal plane) with the CTX drives the Fe values to the bottom (up-averages to see only iron) if any Disc is used. The best bet was with an open screen, but even there the CTX up-averaged both the Fe and Co values the closer the iron was to the coin.

The take away here is that in a field full of iron nails, detecting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. You should expect to miss non-ferrous if using any amount of Disc with the CTX assuming you're in a random jumble of close iron nails < 1" apart. With the open screen, the Fe and Co values will be wrong (not showing the true coin values), always reading higher. Beyond 1" separation the CTX open and Disc screens behaved similarly and you can use Disc and not miss anything (assuming the nails are always greater than 1" from your coin).

The Fe value will increase rapidly when within 1" separation and will report anywhere from 20Fe to 30Fe, averaging about 25Fe, rather than 12Fe. The Co value will also up-average 10% if iron is within about 3-4" and increase rapidly and become more erratic when within about 1/2", reporting between 39Co to 45Co, rather than 36Co.

Since the Fe values are volatile and rise erratically into the iron range with close iron, they provide less intelligent information. Since the Co value is more conservative and remains relatively stable in the presence of close iron, even though the Co value will rise (appear more conductive in a sea of iron) they should reveal the presence of non-ferrous targets better than the Fe value. Watch the Co value rather than the Fe, the Fe will tell you it is iron (fluctuating toward the screen bottom) but the Co will rise to show a conductive target.

And yes, the CTX does very poorly in iron - not a new revelation. So, keep the results above in mind when hunting in iron and try changing sweep angles to help mitigate some of the CTX deficiencies.

After much hunting in thick iron and thousand upon thousands of targets dug from it. I just put my remote in my pocket and don't pay any attention to numbers they are useless in that situation most of the time. If the site has given up something good I go into that digging every beep ,pop , and creak signal I can find after the goods one are gone. I cant tell you how many junk signals have turned into screamers after the plug was cut and the iron was shifted around. I don't know how good the Nox will be but I want to try it.

That was my favourite setting for really old sites loaded with iron, that's for the shout out CD.

calabash digger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive been thinking about the Nox. I'm wondering how
> the tones will do in the iron. I have my deus set
> up where it will scream on the non ferrous in iron
> . Heres a video of it on 3 d nail test with a 1/2/
> reale.iron test
> video