Nox update mini rview.

I took the updated nox on a test run at my pounded site, I found a 1946 rosie and a 2013 dime. HOWEVER I dug 22 targets, most iron. in 2.5 hours.

With the update, I seem to be getting better, clearer hits on deep iron. Nice one ways that "dissipate" over time causing you to waste time investigating junk or worse, forcing yourself to believe the target is good.

The hit on the silver dime was a 34 35 36 TID and target was on it's side about 7 inches.

The EMI and sparkiness on the machine was greatly increased, causing falses and chatter.

I will give it a few more runs and if it doesn't pan out, i'm switching back. If you are very effective with the NOX and haven't upgraded yet, I recommend you don't.

Ive got to do some solid testing....... but im not sure i like it either. Both beach modes seem smoother and better on coins. But im not looking for coins. The manual said beach 2 was working with reduced power... it appear they gave it back and found a way to smooth it out somewhat. IMO..... my digits arent nearly as accurate in the gold range. Pull tabs.... used to be a solid 14..... now the just around. Im getting bottle caps in the wet sand..... reading a solid 13 with a single tone just like a nickel. BUT this seems to be in the wet sand..... if i go to the dry sand they react as expected 14 and on bottle caps you always get a 15 and a - in there as it bounces. Going to set down this after noon and do some air testing on a lot of gold and some just targets for BOTH programs. Its seems like a gain with the new program on coins and beach 2 ..... but at the same time i feel like i lost something in the process. if that makes sense.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive got to do some solid testing....... but im not
> sure i like it either. Both beach modes seem smo
> other and better on coins. But im not looking for
> coins. The manual said beach 2 was working with
> reduced power... it appear they gave it back and f
> ound a way to smooth it out somewhat. IMO..... m
> y digits arent nearly as accurate in the gold rang
> e. Pull tabs.... used to be a solid 14..... now
> the just around. Im getting bottle caps in the w
> et sand..... reading a solid 13 with a single tone
> just like a nickel. BUT this seems to be in the
> wet sand..... if i go to the dry sand they react a
> s expected 14 and on bottle caps you always get a
> 15 and a - in there as it bounces. Going to set d
> own this after noon and do some air testing on a l
> ot of gold and some just targets for BOTH programs
> . Its seems like a gain with the new program on
> coins and beach 2 ..... but at the same time i fee
> l like i lost something in the process. if that ma
> kes sense.

Perfect sense as I feel the same way. A once solid stable machine is now a loose cannon with TID being too sparky throwing numbers out of whack.

So far, for me, I've found that it is more stable and less chattery to EMI allowing it to be run at higher sensitivity. It seems to have skewed the VDI numbers, though. I hit a shallow IHP that came in in the mid 20s. Wheaties came in lower than the IHP. A small, dense, piece of copper came in high 20s/30. I was convinced it was silver prior to digging. I'll give it a couple more runs in various conditions before deciding if I'm going to keep it. I agree with Beyonder and Del at this point...not sure if I like it .

Dean

I too found it more stable. Previously I could only max out at 23 without chatter, same sight, same day, same time of day after the update I was able to push to 25 stable.

I also dug a shallow indian first time out with the update, and mine came in 18-19 in Park 2, with a wheat coming in 24-25.

bado1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So far, for me, I've found that it is more stable
> and less chattery to EMI allowing it to be run at
> higher sensitivity. It seems to have skewed the VD
> I numbers, though. I hit a shallow IHP that came
> in in the mid 20s. Wheaties came in lower than the
> IHP. A small, dense, piece of copper came in high
> 20s/30. I was convinced it was silver prior to dig
> ging. I'll give it a couple more runs in various c
> onditions before deciding if I'm going to keep it.
> I agree with Beyonder and Del at this point...not
> sure if I like it .
>
> Dean

No doubt its quieter out of the water and you can tweak up the sensitivity a bit. I just tested the depth on over 100 various pieces of gold......air tested at 18 sensitivity. Note i said air tested and it was for depth only. What i found was there was very few that gave me a different depth reading. So i feel better about that. I started out using 10 sensitivity...... but found i could run it at 18 after noise cancel. What i found there is you gain about a 3" difference at 18 sensitivity. I also noticed the volume/cleanliness of the targets were better with the new update. You would think .... more volume/cleanliness more depth, but it seemed to cut off about the same depth. The old program seemed to like open earrings a little better than the new. Just a glance at the paper i did ......tells me on a good many gold rings you should get the depth equal to the size of the standard coil. Smaller ones of course vary. Seemed to air test the same on crosses those rings with stones as well. All were tested in beach 2...... which is odd since in the wet sand beach 2 seemed to have gotten back some of that lost power, but it didnt show a difference in depth.

I've done the update but haven't been but a few times since doing it. Maybe 3 hours total. I really haven't used it enough in post update to be able to tell a difference. Most of that 3 hours has been playing with the 6 inch coil in heavy iron and aluminum trash against the Multi Kruzer's 7" coil.

Our beloved leader can evaluate detectors like no other. This is such a subjective discipline that lucky hits seem to say more about how we evaluate a detector or an upgrade. As far as I am concerned the best course is to try it, give it a good work out over several hunts and if it does not seem to make an improvement then go back or try something new. I think they have done us a great service in having an option to reverse the update and the decency to provide it freely.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

I agree...... having that option to go back is great. But..... you dont know what you missed if you missed it. If you had a chatty machine.... that was finding gold..... now its a smooth perfect running machine you love because you can crank up the sensitivity..... dont you wonder what the change may have did? Especially in the salt water? The sounds were better.... but still cut off at the same depth. I also mentioned....... the old program was a bit better on open gold earrings. But neither gave me they impression of finding smaller gold in the water was going to happen. I did ask Tom which was better ..... but hes still unable to say anything about this machine.

My EQ800 wasn't chatty, even at high sensitivity settings. I do notice that deep square nails or deep bits of bailing wire can mimic deep coins, if the update increases that, I'm sticking with the stock firmware.

Every blip drew my attention. Then I would investigate further and get a solid one way. Then after going over it 6-12 times in would deteriorate into a clipped signal. Switching over to all metal reveals an iron tone mixed in.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every blip drew my attention. Then I would investi
> gate further and get a solid one way. Then after g
> oing over it 6-12 times in would deteriorate into
> a clipped signal. Switching over to all metal reve
> als an iron tone mixed in.

Are you running auto ground balance? My Equinox in auto GB does the same thing my CTX did, you keep swinging over a target investigating and it starts phasing the target out until it’s clipped.

ChrisMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Every blip drew my attention. Then I would inves
> ti
> > gate further and get a solid one way. Then after
> g
> > oing over it 6-12 times in would deteriorate int
> o
> > a clipped signal. Switching over to all metal re
> ve
> > als an iron tone mixed in.
>
> Are you running auto ground balance? My Equinox i
> n auto GB does the same thing my CTX did, you keep
> swinging over a target investigating and it starts
> phasing the target out until it’s clipped.

Right which it did BEFORE the update, but now it is much worse

Sounds like its tracking.... thats why i run default 0. For the beach i can tell if im in fluff sand thats pushed in because its a little quieter..... when its get chatty im near the hard pan.

ChrisMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Every blip drew my attention. Then I would inves
> ti
> > gate further and get a solid one way. Then after
> g
> > oing over it 6-12 times in would deteriorate int
> o
> > a clipped signal. Switching over to all metal re
> ve
> > als an iron tone mixed in.
>
> Are you running auto ground balance? My Equinox i
> n auto GB does the same thing my CTX did, you keep
> swinging over a target investigating and it starts
> phasing the target out until it’s clipped.


Solution to the problem with any detector is to dig on the first good hit and don't keep swinging looking for a reason not to dig. Talk is cheap though. I think we all do it nowadays. Didn't use to be that way. The man who digs the iffy signals and the man who digs the most trash is the man who finds the most treasure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2018 12:22AM by Bill long.

Bill long Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChrisMD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Every blip drew my attention. Then I would inv
> es
> > ti
> > > gate further and get a solid one way. Then aft
> er
> > g
> > > oing over it 6-12 times in would deteriorate i
> nt
> > o
> > > a clipped signal. Switching over to all metal
> re
> > ve
> > > als an iron tone mixed in.
> >
> > Are you running auto ground balance? My Equinox
> i
> > n auto GB does the same thing my CTX did, you ke
> ep
> > swinging over a target investigating and it star
> ts
> > phasing the target out until it’s clipped.
>
>
> Solution to the problem with any detector is to di
> g on the first good hit and don't keep swinging lo
> oking for a reason not to dig. Talk is cheap thoug
> h. I think we all do it nowadays. Didn't use to be
> that way. The man who digs the iffy signals and th
> e man who digs the most trash is the man who finds
> the most treasure.

and THAT is why I dug 2 dimes and 20 plus junk signals.

Is the general consensus that the new update will have you digging more deep iron?

I noticed that deep square nails and bits of iron bailing wire sound similar to deep silver coins, so if it's worse on the new firmware rev., I'll hold off w/the upgrade in anticipation that they'll tweak that in the future.

I don’t have an EQ. But at NO point in my detecting career using 3 different machines have I found the “shoot first,ask questions later” method to be productive in any sense of the word. The manufacturers have given us ways to discern with GREAT probability what is trash and what is not. To immediately dig a hole without first analyzing the signal is not only a gigantic waste of time,it’s a drag on what I have set out to do in the first place....find coins! The guy who finds the most trash certainly does NOT find the most treasure,unless you are out there 24/7 just strip mining everything in sight. Then in THAT case,well.....yes,that’s probably right.

IDX.... i agree with you both. If i were land hunting which requires a LOT of effort and in some cases being very careful how you dig id do more target analyzing. But as a beach guy, IN the water and wet sand im not going to spend a lot of time convincing myself not to dig there is just fewer targets. Hes right...... you end up with more trash but you dont leave an iffy target or someone will show you the ring they just dug behind you. This machine takes a little more work IMO...... maybe its a tad deeper so we are getting more iffy targets. Or maybe we are just focused more than normal trying to figure it out.

I tell you what i would like.......id still like to see ML work on the program to give us more small gold in the water and the wet sand. At this point we can load 2 programs...... why not 3 and give those of us who are willing to dig the small stuff a program. So what if its chatty or what ever...... if you dont like it or its to advanced for beginners they have other options.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IDX.... i agree with you both. If i were land hu
> nting which requires a LOT of effort and in some c
> ases being very careful how you dig id do more tar
> get analyzing. But as a beach guy, IN the water
> and wet sand im not going to spend a lot of time c
> onvincing myself not to dig there is just fewer ta
> rgets. Hes right...... you end up with more trash
> but you dont leave an iffy target or someone will
> show you the ring they just dug behind you. This
> machine takes a little more work IMO...... maybe i
> ts a tad deeper so we are getting more iffy target
> s. Or maybe we are just focused more than normal
> trying to figure it out.
>
> I tell you what i would like.......id still like t
> o see ML work on the program to give us more small
> gold in the water and the wet sand. At this poin
> t we can load 2 programs...... why not 3 and give
> those of us who are willing to dig the small stuff
> a program. So what if its chatty or what ever...
> ... if you dont like it or its to advanced for be
> ginners they have other options.

Dew...yes,I tend to forget there is beach hunting! He’s absolutely right when it comes to that type of hunting,from what I understand.
Isn’t sensitivity to a specific thing like small gold a function of frequency/coil size as a smaller coil would have a more condensed field and a higher frequency “energizes” that type of target better? Boy,if you could hunt small gold effectively(more effectively than most guys who have come before in your sites) that would start to add up fast! Just finding a 5 gram 10k class ring last weekend made me wake up a bit...80 bucks scrap value! I would likely get less selling to a scrapper but still....BAM! 80 bucks! Well worth digging all signals at that price,as Bill said....at the beach!

I am not referring to beach hunting that is a totally different subject.

Before the update:
The hits I got would register as a potential high conductor. Then as I investigated it, after only one or two sweeps, it would be able to be easily identified as iron. If I continued to sweep, the signal would totally dissipate leaving you with silence or a badly clipped signal.

After the update:
The hits would register as a potential high conductor. Then as I investigated it, it would still register as a high conductor until about 6-12 sweeps then it would either barely clip or even stay a good solid one-way hit. Then after I dug it, it would be a iron nail of some sort.

Brian,
I would hold off if you are happy with your "relationship" with the original Nox. It's still early yet to determine the benefits over the original program. You and I hunt in much the same situations...iron polluted relic sites, highly variable and mineralized soil of the S.W., etc. For me, thus far, the update changed things to the point of having to re-learn certain "quirks" of the machine. After spending LOTS of hours with the original Nox, I had "bonded" with it and become very confident with it's language. Now, the language has changed. I'm not sure, yet, if the trade offs ( definitely more EMI stable, the jury is still out on the rest of the "upgrades" as far as I'm concerned) are worth the time to "re-bond".

You mentioned deep iron sounding like a good coin...I dug two deep (6-7". Yes, that is deep in highly mineralized ground!) square pull tabs the other day at a late 1800s mining town site. They came in in the high 20s/30 and sounded great from multiple directions. I was sure the first one was going to be a silver coin. The second one had me questioning the machine (update). That never happened prior to the update.

Dean

Well in the case of the Nox..... it is about getting the freq right.... and those combinations of freq has to work in or near the salt water. In order for most machines to run in most case you have to reduce sensitivity to calm the machine. It seems in the salt water is where even a great machine can struggle and everything becomes more equal with others being used.

Hey Chris,

Aren't you nearly perfectly describing how auto ground balance works? You're swinging over the target so much that the machine interprets it as ground effect and adjusts it out, which leads to clipping of the target signal (and theoretically if not actually up to the total elimination of the target signal).

I've not yet installed the update and might or might not before getting out again with the Equinox. But, revisiting a site, especially a badly pounded site, with the update cannot provide conclusive results of effects of the update unless there are numerous visits over varying climactic, ie, site/ground, conditions.
Site EMI can be silent but still affect the electronics. Ground moisture and vegetation has an effect. Human nature demands that we try to make bad targets good when there are many less good targets left to find. Exploring those questionable targets is how we continue to deplete the site of good targets.

Update or not? It's a bit of a catch 22 as improvements in some functionality might very well be detrimental to other functions. If it's been a while since you swung the Equinox, you could possibly make the update and never notice any difference as you reacclimate to the machine. IMO, the best approach to comparing the softwares is in the test garden; too many variables in a hunt site. Main cautionary thought is this: It took a bit of time to become familiar with the setup and running of the original s/w. It follows that it should also take a bit of time to become familiar with the newer s/w and what adjustments to make in the setup for its best use.

Wayne

bado1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian,
> I would hold off if you are happy with your "relationship" with the original Nox. It's still early yet to determine the benefits over the original program. You and I hunt in much the same situations..
> .iron polluted relic sites, highly variable and mineralized soil of the S.W., etc. For me, thus far, the update changed things to the point of having to re-learn certain "quirks" of the machine. After
> spending LOTS of hours with the original Nox, I had "bonded" with it and become very confident with it's language. Now, the language has changed. I'm not sure, yet, if the trade offs ( definitely more
> EMI stable, the jury is still out on the rest of the "upgrades" as far as I'm concerned) are worth the time to "re-bond".
>
> You mentioned deep iron sounding like a good coin. ..I dug two deep (6-7". Yes, that is deep in highly mineralized ground!) square pull tabs the other day at a late 1800s mining town site. They came in
> in the high 20s/30 and sounded great from multiple directions. I was sure the first one was going to be a silver coin. The second one had me questioning the machine (update). That never happened prior to the update.
>
> Dean

Thanks Dean, that's exactly the kind of feedback that's helpful in determining to upgrade or not. I did see some positive comments about the upgrade on another forum, but no idea what kind of sites they hunt and what kind of soil they deal with.

Thanks!
Brian

Well, id think those who own both the 800 and 600 could have the combination to do some site testing on found targets. Hunting tomorrow with a friend at Clearwater im bringing my blue Xcal with PP switch we are going to do some comparison of found targets IN the water. Im hoping his Nox dont continuously kick my butt out there. But ..... based on a recent chain i found and some of those open earrings it could be a fair contest.

ncwayne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Chris,
>
> Aren't you nearly perfectly describing how auto gr
> ound balance works? You're swinging over the targe
> t so much that the machine interprets it as ground
> effect and adjusts it out, which leads to clipping
> of the target signal (and theoretically if not act
> ually up to the total elimination of the target si
> gnal).
> Wayne

Yeah, I only threw it out there in case someone was reading that wasn’t experienced enough to recognize what was happening with the auto ground balance. I saw the same question come up all the time on the 3030 forum on Findmall, so I guess it’s not too common knowledge/understanding.

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don’t have an EQ. But at NO point in my detectin
> g career using 3 different machines have I found t
> he “shoot first,ask questions later” method to be
> productive in any sense of the word. The manufactu
> rers have given us ways to discern with GREAT prob
> ability what is trash and what is not. To immediat
> ely dig a hole without first analyzing the signal
> is not only a gigantic waste of time,it’s a drag o
> n what I have set out to do in the first place....
> find coins! The guy who finds the most trash certa
> inly does NOT find the most treasure,unless you ar
> e out there 24/7 just strip mining everything in s
> ight. Then in THAT case,well.....yes,that’s probab
> ly right.

Kevin, if you shoot first you don't have to ask any questions later. The answer is in your trash pouch or your good finds pouch.

Bill long Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IDXMonster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don’t have an EQ. But at NO point in my detect
> in
> > g career using 3 different machines have I found
> t
> > he “shoot first,ask questions later” method to b
> e
> > productive in any sense of the word. The manufac
> tu
> > rers have given us ways to discern with GREAT pr
> ob
> > ability what is trash and what is not. To immedi
> at
> > ely dig a hole without first analyzing the signa
> l
> > is not only a gigantic waste of time,it’s a drag
> o
> > n what I have set out to do in the first place..
> ..
> > find coins! The guy who finds the most trash cer
> ta
> > inly does NOT find the most treasure,unless you
> ar
> > e out there 24/7 just strip mining everything in
> s
> > ight. Then in THAT case,well.....yes,that’s prob
> ab
> > ly right.
>
> Kevin, if you shoot first you don't have to ask an
> y questions later. The answer is in your trash pou
> ch or your good finds pouch.


Amen & Amen!-----Your pouch carries the FINAL verdict!

I installed the update. How do I check to see it in the menu? Thanks for the help

"A Bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush"