ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Cabin Fever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m still trying to figure out if this new detecto
> r is primarily a beach hunter or is this something
> I could use for deep coin hunting in a park scenar
> io?
> Does it have decent discrimination and depth modul
> ation.
> I have a couple parks where the old coins start at
> 8 inches but I can’t seem to get past 10” on Dime
> size coins.
> There must be deeper ones I’m missing there.
>
> Bryan

This might help. It is an earlier post by Tom .Specifically the third paragraph. .

NASA-Tom [ PM ]
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 17, 2018 04:03PM Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 7,888

I have tested both of the Manta proto's….. over a year ago. This is GEN-1 Manta's. Then I demonstrated my (highly modified) AquaStar-II to/with Carl..... in my test-garden. Carl then commandeered my AquaStar-II (for a year)…… due to some of my implemented modifications. You can bet Carl and Alexandre have NOT been sleeping. A few of the performance parameters of the AquaStar exemplified 'merit'. Since then..... I believe the Manta is at GEN-3 level...… of which I have not tested. I'd be willing to wager …. the GEN-3 is markedly improved/different from the GEN-1's that I tested. BUT..... because I have not tested the latest rendition …. I am reluctant to speculate its performance levels.

However..... I feel I can say this: The AQUAmanta is specifically targeting the wet-salt beach..... and specifically for low-conductive gold. Yes..... there will most-probably be a dirt-manta: TERRAmanta. . . . in the future. The Manta is a PI-based platform..... which (inherently) is going to handle wet-salt and bad mineralization much better than VLF-based platform(s). Typical with PI's.... is the fact that (especially if they are designed to be more specifically resonant to low-conductive gold) ….. they will be 'hot' on Fe iron. This is a worthwhile trade-off for the wet-salt..... once the language is learned. I also speculate the discrimination capabilities of the Manta....will be "PI-crude"; yet, effective. ((( Read: usable ))).

The new MD8000 Tarsacci is neither VLF or PI. It is a Multi Domain based platform. It is certainly the trump-card over the GEN-1 Manta. However; The GEN-3 Manta might create a game-changer...… with a twist......and potentially imposed stipulations.....and attributes. Brian...… it is hard for me to answer your question..... under a unique/unsuspecting premise. The Tarsacci has full conductive-spectrum ID. The Manta does not. The Tarsacci can be used inland..... in mineralized dirt..... and can 'focus' on all non-ferrous spectrum targets..... giving the user a better option to dig/not-dig certain selected non-ferrous targets. ((( It's too early in the game to be able to tell 'what' the TERRAmanta dirt performance.... and not-designed/invented-yet: ID/and/or Discrimination capabilities will be. ))) My philosophy for wet-salt beach hunting is: dig ALL no-ferrous targets.... and even some (conductive high-end of the iron spectrum) iron targets.

The Tarsacci is not my invention/inception; yet, I've had some 'input'.

Let me know if this link works!

[imgur.com]

Thanks Elbert.
I missed that post somehow.

Bryan

Thanks PastorTom for the info. I need to save up for this one.

As to the usefulness of this detector in non beach use... I was told it has been tested in a wide variety of places. Last year when I first spoke to Mr. Gargov he said he was taking it to the mineralized soil of Culpeper, VA and today reported that it performed well there. Some of the highest end PIs hit deeper on some targets, but it more than held it's own. I believe I am representing what he said accurately. I did not have an opportunity to use it or witness it beyond the times at Pismo Beach.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Everything seem to be fine , but the part that worrying me now is the fact you need time to master despite its simple look (having mastered the tdi sl, xp deus without too much difficulty)
The last time i heard that it was for a nexus standard mp v1 , and let me tell you it was really not performing as marketed on tidal beach, it wasnt performing at all due to the almost impossible to make weird ground balance which determine everything on this md.
So on the mdt8000 it will be about swing speed , coil height , something around that, or there are another difficulty ? not overcoming those will it make the detector really bad like for nexus ?

Will the seller allow return , in case we dont click with the machine ?!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2018 09:12AM by youdig.

The Nox is a simple machine too.......but its not an out of the box machine one easily masters. I know some very good hunters that still wonder if it should be their go to machine or back up for water hunting. At this point im hoping to start seeing some beach reports. Just having a machine that functions differently ..... while everyone else is using the same old machine can be an advantage. Sometimes ...... its about matching the beach to the machine for the day.

An instruction video would be worth a 1000 words.

I find the below statement by Tom D very interesting.

"The new MD8000 Tarsacci is neither VLF or PI. It is a Multi Domain based platform. It is certainly the trump-card over the GEN-1 Manta. However; The GEN-3 Manta might create a game-changer...… with a twist......and potentially imposed stipulations.....and attributes."

Elbert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An instruction video would be worth a 1000 words.
>
> I find the below statement by Tom D very interesti
> ng.
>
> "The new MD8000 Tarsacci is neither VLF or PI. It
> is a Multi Domain based platform. It is certainly
> the trump-card over the GEN-1 Manta. However; The
> GEN-3 Manta might create a game-changer...… with a
> twist......and potentially imposed stipulations...
> ..and attributes."

A new "platform" is something we have been waiting on for decades. Multi-freq VLF was the last step forward in our game, and that has been a long time since. Platforms changed rapidly in the beginning, lets hope this is the next leap forward.

Multi-domain.

More than one domain

What is a “domain” when we talk about metal detectors?

There are two I know of.

Frequency domain. Using the shift in frequency between transmitted signal and received signal to learn stuff about the target which caused the return signal - classic VLF IB discriminating detector stuff.

Time domain. Using the different characteristics if the return signal as measured at different times compared to the time of the transmitted signal.

This is my best understanding of the matter at the most basic level.

Traditionally VLF IB detectors with discrimination used Phase shift and PI detectors used “time shift” - Minelab kind of mixed up the two in the FBSS/BBS system with timing of frequency sampling occurring along with frequency shift measurement (I think) - this has led to endless mostly fruitless discussion/dispute on various forums over the years - not helped by the fact that Minelab doesn’t a;patently let engineers write any of their technical explanations (at least without marketing holding a gun to their heads).

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

The Equinox was easy peasy for me. No machine will 'fit' everyone. This is more a Ferrari than a Prius. The genuine difference of the Tarsacci is not what I think you are suggesting. I can't say and don't know exactly what the tech is, but I am sure it is not like anything suggested. I believe we are looking at an 'out of the box' creation of one man who understands the processes that have limited traditional vlf and PI from improving, and found a way to by pass a huge bottle neck. I really hope I am not misrepresenting this. Dimitar and Tom and maybe some others can say more about the specifics, but I think I've said enough.

I am persuaded it's the real deal (but not the Holy Grail).

I trust Tom would not be a part of this if he was not confident.

When they are ready they will explain how this is different. I expect it will be soon.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

It would be interesting to see the Manta and Tarsacci in a side by side hunt.

I think it may be better than Tom is letting on but he is afraid to have people on the Forums start screaming when they get them that it isn't what he said it would be and a bag of chips.
I am still interested and watching closely.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2019 01:25AM by GreenMeanie.

Also interesting that 2 different companies come out with quote ( game changing machines ) in close time frame to each other.

I believe but am not positive but there is only one person that may have tested both that can answerer the question of how each compares at this point of manufacture.

El

GreenMeanie- I never considered reader response in what I posted. Both NASA Tom and Mr. Gargov stressed honest reporting (good or bad) and I feel I did that. Mr. Gargov is not a fan of detector comparisons. I intentionally avoided doing that as much as possible, though it cannot be avoided entirely IMHO. I agree with him in that most of the ones I've seen left me complaining that an unequal skill level skewed the results and significantly invalidated the outcome. In addition I am not comfortable basing too much on 2 to 3 hours with a machine in one location. I would be more candid after at least two weeks in various settings. Yet, based on over an hour face to face discussions and the time with detector in hand, I confidently stand by all I have written. If I have misunderstood or misstated anything, I am open to defend or correct if someone with more expertise or experience with the MD8000 weighs in.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Pasttom
I was wondering when the skill level skewed the results was it still performing better than the VLF machines or worse?
The reason I ask is because I was wondering if even when not swinging the correct speed would it still perform better then a VLF?



"I agree with him in that most of the ones I've seen left me complaining that an unequal skill level skewed the results and significantly invalidated the outcome."

The skill level comment applied only to the many YouTube videos I've seen where guys compared their own machine that they are proficient with to a new one they never used before not the MD8000. Only in the most extreme sense did the MD8000 seem to be at all swing speed sensitive. That being a very narrow and very slow swing lost depth and a very fast swing seemed to gain depth. I couldn't see variation from typical swinging. My time on the machine was just a couple hours so there was not a specific swing speed test done.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

That can be consistent with a good many machines Pastom...... depending on the filters. Also.... you assume they are proficient with the machines they are comparing to. Its not the number of machines you own that makes me watch a video.... or that person proficient. Simplicity out of the box may help with the learning curve...... but many dont know if the machine is even working right before they want to jump in and be the first to complain. Takes time on some of these machines before things click and you really start seeing results. Lot of peoples finds actually go down at first, but if the machine has real potential that will change. I rarely sell a machine until it pays for its self. When i was dirt hunt..... that took awhile.

Wow! Thanks Dew, that was my point exactly- comparing a unit they are proficient with to one they just picked up. I did not expand on several other ways that I find many comparison videos hard to accept. Thanks for making another good point or several actually. As is so often the case, I am right there with you, brother!

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2018 05:33PM by Pasttom.

Ive often been told I’m full of....well you know information haha

So true. Here we are expressing ourselves on the Information Superhighway! Nothing like a good data dump!

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Pasttom....was the Nox out when you got to play around with the machine. I’m sure Tom can’t do a comparison between the two with his NDA. But how about anyone out the using both?

Hey Dew,
I 'played' twice, a year apart. First time about an hour with an CTX/Excal and last week the Equinox. The 'nox is a much easier unit to turn on and go. I don't see the 8000 as something for a novice or halfhearted user. I don't feel qualified to say much after only 2 hours use and I pretty much parked the Equinox when the 8000 arrived. I can say the 8000 opened up a very quiet beach with relative ease. Oddly mixing meta-fores, it was like having the cataracts removed from my ears...
I hope to get more time with it soon. I am not going to give up my 800, but I see real value in having an 8000!

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

NasaTom -- You said in an earlier post that a person would need a custom build unit to handle Culpeper style soil.

Has this changed/updated since your earlier post?

Pasttom said in a post from the 28th that the creator had tested the machine in Culpeper and that it held its own there. I was wondering if that was with a unit as it will be rolling out, or if that was with the custom version.

I am really interested in this machine for that reason. I'm wondering though if it requires a custom build to handle the soil, on how that will impact the price of it. The street price of a new Minelab GPX is around $2,000. Some dealers may actually go $1,900 or so on one but the street price averages about $2k. If the price increases with a custom built MD8000 from that $1500ish price point to make it work in Culpeper soil..then you are knocking on the door of a new GPX. If it can hold its own against one of those and have some other tricks up its sleeve, that is great and it would be worth it. If not...that would most likely be a hard machine to sell used.

Hmmm. The thought crossed my mind...you could do like we did with the CF77 CoinFinder detector that one time several years ago and let everybody give it a try. Just pass it along from one person to the next Hey, ya can't blame a fella for tryin.

Thanks for the info. Of course im thinking the same thing with the Fisher. I dont plan on it taking the place of my VLFs..... but supplementing them. Im hoping that manual thats being worked on will be available on the web. You said " it was like having the cataracts removed from my ears"........ but was it like the Nox in the water..... endless mineral chatter in AM? How quiet is the machine to work with? Does it LOVE the tiny high conductors like the Nox...... and just how much junk might one expect? Has there been any suggestive adjustments by NASA Tom? Is it capable of updates?

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the info. Of course im thinking the s
> ame thing with the Fisher. I dont plan on it taki
> ng the place of my VLFs..... but supplementing the
> m. Im hoping that manual thats being worked on w
> ill be available on the web. You said " it was l
> ike having the cataracts removed from my ears"....
> .... but was it like the Nox in the water..... end
> less mineral chatter in AM? How quiet is the mach
> ine to work with? Does it LOVE the tiny high cond
> uctors like the Nox...... and just how much junk m
> ight one expect? Has there been any suggestive ad
> justments by NASA Tom? Is it capable of updates?

I could be wrong but i think he said somewhere that the mdt8000 wont be upgradable.

I remember him saying the Fisher wouldn’t be.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
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> I remember him saying the Fisher wouldn’t be.

there a lot of confusion between those machine and those thread lol =) you might be right we will wait his answer.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the info. Of course im thinking the s
> ame thing with the Fisher. I dont plan on it taki
> ng the place of my VLFs..... but supplementing the
> m. Im hoping that manual thats being worked on w
> ill be available on the web. You said " it was l
> ike having the cataracts removed from my ears"....
> .... but was it like the Nox in the water..... end
> less mineral chatter in AM? How quiet is the mach
> ine to work with? Does it LOVE the tiny high cond
> uctors like the Nox...... and just how much junk m
> ight one expect? Has there been any suggestive ad
> justments by NASA Tom? Is it capable of updates?


Here is a paragraph from an earlier post by Tom that may answer your question on the Tarsacci on tiny targets.

NASA-Tom [ PM ]
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 04:24AM Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 7,888

I think I can share this now. I have head-to-head tested this unit in the wet-salt. Compared to Excal/CZ/Sov…(first-hand)…… this unit is deeper on rings & coins...… including Nickels. No...… it is not a tiny gold jewelry hunter. Yes.,.,.,.,.,., we're working on that; but/yet..... that may be 1 or 2 years down the pike.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 03:45PM by Elbert.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the info. Of course im thinking the same thing with the Fisher.
> I dont plan on it taking the place of my VLFs..... but supplementing them.

Me too.

Im hoping that manual thats being worked on will be available on the web.

Me too.

> You said " it was like having the cataracts removed from my ears"....
> .... but was it like the Nox in the water..... endless mineral chatter in AM? How quiet is the machine to work with?

I don't see my Nox as chatty, but I set it that way. The 8000 can be chatty when it's not set up right,
but it can be set up to run hot and very quiet and that is part of the magic. My understanding is the absolute worst conditions
will still mandate backing off the throttle, but it's a very high threshold. I think there will always be a little noise when cranking near the limits.

>Does it LOVE the tiny high conductors like the Nox......

My limited experience was with small not tiny. Tiny gold and silver rings hit hard. Micro jewelry was not tested. We did a small piece of gold wire and nickel wire set on wet sand
and hit that better than Nox did.

>and just how much junk might one expect?

I can't really say, but iron registered clearly. Beach was fairly clean anyway. In my experience, time with a machine reduces trash/junk finds and I am still new to the 8000.

>Has there been any suggestive adjustments by NASA Tom?

I think so, but that is for him to say.

>Is it capable of updates?

I was told it is possible but none are anticipated or desired.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie