ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

What kind of GB numbers are you guys seeing in the dirt? We tested one yesterday at my bullet site and some parts of the field was GBing around 860 and other parts were 900 something. There's not anything in the manual that describes what those numbers might mean though, but we know from experience that all VLFs struggle in it, so I call it hot/bad soil.

How is the Tarsacci on hot rocks? Are they a problem at all?

.

GreenMeanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you the one who is sometimes in Mikes videos?


Yeah, I often hunt with Mike. That was me who found the "French Pirate coins" last March and the Gold ring inscribed 1883.

I was there yesterday when he dug that awesome gold ring with the big diamond but I was at the other end of the cut when it happened. I had the hip mounted CZ20 and purple/blue jacket.

.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2019 03:54PM by Badger in NH.

According to developer of unit Dimitar.
Ground balance numbers in higher 800s into 900s is indicative of red clay. My unit balances in my area using 18khz around 935 ish. 12khz it Balances around 880 ish. And I don’t think actual mineralization levels can be extracted by the GB numbers themselves. This is my opinion. Level 500 seems is inert ground GB.

So how to judge actual mineralization with Tarsacci? My best guess right now. Here’s the clue. When ground balancing if it requires level 6 sensitivty to stop Ground feedback when lowering coil to ground super hot ground. Level 7, high mineralized, level 8 milder, level 9 real mild.
More folks weighting in here dirt hunters will help. I have not witnessed what Insay above as far as level 6 sens needed. But I highly suspect. I have witnessed different sensitivity allowed though, just basing this off of what I remember with sites I’ve had Deus and F75 in. Knowing what their minerals strength meters said.

The user’s manual does point out the necessity of lowering sensitivty if excessive ground feedback is witnessed. See this link page 17.
[drive.google.com]



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2019 04:52PM by tnsharpshooter.

TNSS have you done any dirt depth testing with the Tarsacci yet?
Unless I missed it I can’t seem to find any detailed dirt depth test numbers from anyone with this detector yet.

A simple buried Dime test is all I’m looking for at this point.

Bryan

My soil depending on the area, GB is between 835 and 890 haven't seen 900's yet but I haven't really run 18 KHz much.

On the beaches I hunt depending on the area is between 635 and I've seen as high as 806.

I'll comment on what I'm seeing so far against PI units. I've owned a bunch of PI's but have sold my infinium, surfmaster and recently TDI, currently have a few GPX's because they suit my hunting the best. I've used many different VLF's and PI's on beaches in California, Florida and here on the Great Salt Lake.

For the most part when I beach hunt and I'm using a PI that can tell high conductors from low conductors I pass all high conductor signals unless I'm finding old stuff. I Hit a beach in Oceanside a few years back after a bad storm and was pulling old silver up like crazy, but once I figured out the stuff was only 4 inches deep I switched to my Explorer.

My experience with the Tarsacci so far is that it has ID'ed iron correctly so far every time for me but once and that ended up being a large rusted washer about 14 inches deep. I've compared the Tarsacci with my GPX on the Great Salt Lake (mega salt and high minerals in areas) and in my dirt for depth. The Tarsacci gets in the salt 11"-12" vs 14" plus with the GPX But in dirt I'm seeing the GPX getting much deeper on low conductors (nickel/ring size) 12" plus vs 8" with Tarsacci. high conductors (dime size) GPX about 10" and Tarsacci about 7" with fairly accurate ID. I'm assuming the deeper depth on the salt beach is due to the salt being conductive and driving the signal deeper. The coil on the GPX is stock 11" DD

Thanks Abenson.
That was the kind of information I was looking for.

Bryan

I Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds right, though I would do threshold BEFORE sensitivity, but what do others say?

The manual states:
"If the detector becomes too noisy, and quiet work is desirable, a more negative threshold may be used to reduce detector chatter." (p. 20)

"If the volume of salt becomes too conductive (i.e.: submerged in salt water) it may also become a requirement to lower Sensitivity in order to bring excessive (unstable) depth performance back down to maximum (stable) depth performance." (p. 22)

While the "whatever works" rules, there is no specific advice prioritizing which to do first. I'd try one go back the the other and see if there is a better setting. Dimitar told Larry reducing sensitivity can reduce noise with very little loss of depth. This is from the horses mouth, as they say.

We are going to test it out today on a VERY noisy beach with lots of coins and seemingly little jewelry. It sounds like a New York traffic jam in All Metal. I'll post how it goes.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Cabin Fever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TNSS have you done any dirt depth testing with the
> Tarsacci yet?
> Unless I missed it I can’t seem to find any detail
> ed dirt depth test numbers from anyone with this d
> etector yet.
>
> A simple buried Dime test is all I’m looking for a
> t this point.
>
> Bryan

Bryan,
I have done tests. But have not shared. Why?
Because when I open my mouth up I want to be sure of things. And I have more sites to go to. The use of salt box and setting, YES it may give additional depth for dirt hunters. So far I have not gotten my arms around. Weather not been cooperating either hasn’t helped.
Remember this detecfor here described not a typical VLF and not a pi detector, so I am excercising more care here.

Understood. thanks David.
I was starting to wonder about the silence on this topic.

Maybe as guys start understanding how to run this detector and dial it in, we will see more
reports on actual performance in dirt.

Thanks,
Bryan

I'm looking forward to trying that salt setting on a military site I have located next to a dried up lake. The Deus struggles with all the alkaline salts at this site, the Equinox does much better. It will be a good month though before I can get there with all the snow we have.

Abenson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I've compared the Tarsa
> cci with my GPX on the Great Salt Lake (mega salt
> and high minerals in areas) and in my dirt for dep
> th. The Tarsacci gets in the salt 11"-12" vs 14" p
> lus with the GPX But in dirt I'm seeing the GPX g
> etting much deeper on low conductors (nickel/ring
> size) 12" plus vs 8" with Tarsacci. high conductor
> s (dime size) GPX about 10" and Tarsacci about 7"
> with fairly accurate ID. I'm assuming the deeper d
> epth on the salt beach is due to the salt being co
> nductive and driving the signal deeper. The coil o
> n the GPX is stock 11" DD

I'm waiting to see more tests like this.

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC

I know the dream is: To put the Tarsacci in the most severe mineralized (PI only) dirt...…. with 'hopes' that it'll have some level of performance that may encroach a PI. Me too! Yet, keep in mind...… it is not a PI. I say this because...…………. I am seeing a wide-spread quest for just exactly this. Remember.... the Tarsacci is not a PI. Some of the comparison/depth numbers I'm seeing here..... are in the most severe dirt conditions. ((( WE/I need to see this data also!!!)))

I am not expecting PI performance but am curious if it has more depth then a multi frequency VLF
such as the Equinox in moderately mineralized dirt.

Bryan

Will be fun to see if you can get Mike to try the tarsacci over his minelabs lol.


Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GreenMeanie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are you the one who is sometimes in Mikes videos
> ?
>
>
> Yeah, I often hunt with Mike. That was me who foun
> d the "French Pirate coins" last March and the Gol
> d ring inscribed 1883.
>
> I was there yesterday when he dug that awesome gol
> d ring but I was at the other end of the cut when
> it happened. I had the hip mounted CZ20 and purpl
> e/blue jacket.
>
> .

I hope people are not thinking the Tarsacci will perform in depth like a PI in bad dirt/severe beach conditions if they are, they may be disappointed. Although there are PI's it will outperform IMHO. Who knows once we know the machine better maybe a combination of setting or new developments will drive it to PI depths. I can say I have been comparing quit a few signal with the Tarsacci and GPX and some of the quieter signals I was very surprised the Tarsacci picked up.

The Tarsacci is a great machine though when you put it in it's element as a discriminating metal detector. IMO and based on my dirt/mega salt it does perform for depth better than any VLF I currently own or have owned in the past. It is inches deeper than any of them wearing a stock 11 inch coil and it likes low conductors better than most. Remember I only have about 30 hours of use with it so I really don't even know the potential of the Tarsacci yet.

Just remember all this is based on my conditions, others might find things are different for them. There is no right or wrong answer/test/opinion when it comes to the Tarsacci because it's new technology everyone is going to have their own personal views, experience, or background with different machines and how the Tarsacci compares. The original testers have the most experience and know what the Tarsacci will or will not do, we don't hear much from them IMO because they want unbiased opinions from others using the machine.

I would really like to see some data from Culpeper users, not that I think the Tarsacci will outdo the GPX but I would like to know if it is inches deeper than other VLF's in that bad dirt. I suspect it is!

Cabin Fever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not expecting PI performance but am curious i
> f it has more depth then a multi frequency VLF
> such as the Equinox in moderately mineralized dir
> t.
>
> Bryan

This was my thoughts as well. BUT the other side to that coin is, that in this very thread prior to the release of the machine, there was talk of it being tested in Culpeper dirt and at least one snippet from that, that said the MDT "held its own" when testing with the pulse machines there. Now, when a statement is made like that, my ears perk up. It may be a pipe dream for a non pulse machine to perform like a pulse machine in those extreme conditions but in the least, there were posts in this thread that seemed to suggest that it was close to that very thing, and I also believe that is why you'll be seeing people wanting to test it in those extreme conditions against machines that they know can handle it.

In reality, what we are looking for is what Bryan said, a machine capable of more depth in that soil type (and others like it) than a standard single freq VLF or multi Freq VLF. Sort of a bridge between normal VLF machines and the pulse machines. There are still a lot of places where the pulse machines have trouble...emi areas, and even places that AREN'T carpets of nails but that still have nails/iron in them, can still make a pulse machine null or so noisy that you can't pick anything out of it. Those areas are largely abandoned by pulse users in favor for cleaner ground and no interference. We only tested the MDT for about 4 hours at my bullet site the other day so no where near enough time to make a bold definitive statement. We could have even not had it set up correctly. I will say though, with it set up stable enough to hunt, I didn't see the performance I was hoping to see.

And just for giggles, I had a funny, you had to be there moment while using it. When going over a in ground nail, the machine reminded me of something from my child hood. The Road Runner from Looney Toons, as heard here after the "beep beep" sound.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2019 02:34AM by Daniel Tn.

I have about 14hrs. in mostly 18k and the battery bar just went down 1 notch. I can say in the environment I detect I am getting better depth and finding targets when my friends I am hunting with are getting far less overall with most of theirs being coins. My coins are older and I am finding multiple pieces of costume every outing. If you were to see the beaches I have been hunting you would see why I am optimistic on what will be coming when I get some erosion and tourist on these beaches. I am digging a lot for verification and so far its iron ID believable to the point with mixed mode I am seeing a pattern to ID most bottle caps. I am cutting the disc. down to -30 and I can hear the AM then iron and a high tone. Works better the more rusty the cap is. New ones are a little tricky and the id is another indication with the far range the id bounces in the non ferrous range. Many caps to dig yet to have the confidence to pass on right now. The most common tab I find have a slightly higher ID than a nickel but I have yet to find a nickel of the beach. Not as common as the pennies and dimes. Like the difference in ID the 6.4 has on coins. Spreads them out and seems to have a little less bounce.
Tom I'm wanting to remove the coil cover and hunt with out it. I find the cover is trapping a fair amount of wet sand and wondering if it might be enough to effect the dry sand balance not to mention adding weight. Do you hunt with or with out a cover? I don't want to do anything that might affect warranty. So far I haven't missed the EQ a minute.

GreenMeanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will be fun to see if you can get Mike to try the
> tarsacci over his minelabs lol.
>
>
> Badger in NH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GreenMeanie Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Are you the one who is sometimes in Mikes vide
> os
> > ?
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I often hunt with Mike. That was me who fo
> un
> > d the "French Pirate coins" last March and the G
> ol
> > d ring inscribed 1883.
> >
> > I was there yesterday when he dug that awesome g
> ol
> > d ring but I was at the other end of the cut whe
> n
> > it happened. I had the hip mounted CZ20 and pur
> pl
> > e/blue jacket.
> >
> > .



I'm don't know if Mike follows this forum but he is interested in seeing the machine when I get it. If I start making good finds at our beach sites, he will very likely put it in the videos. I'll let him try it if he wants to.

.

The manual seems to say that the Salinity Balance procedure must be done over 18 inches of water.

Do I have to wade out into the water each time I detect the wet sand, or do I only salinity balance once for a particular location and then stay with that number from then on?

Wading out into 18 inches of water with waves coming in will require some pretty high boots. My normal detecting boots are only 16 inches high.

Beach hunting season in NH mostly goes from December through March with water temps in the upper 30's.

.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2019 03:06PM by Badger in NH.

No you can balance on wet sand after doing a dry sand balance. You balance over water if you are going to be in the water. Once done if you hear noise when coil get near sand rebalance. Don't GB in wet sand.

ShovelNose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No you can balance on wet sand after doing a dry s
> and balance. You balance over water if you are goi
> ng to be in the water. Once done if you hear noise
> when coil get near sand rebalance. Don't GB in wet
> sand.


Funny that the manual says nothing about salinity balancing on the wet sand.

Ground balancing might be a little tough because our beaches don't have any dry sand this time of year.

We'll see how it goes. I hope the lack of a dry sand ground balance doesn't detract from performance.

.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2019 03:08PM by Badger in NH.

Hello

I an new on this forum, but i follow this topic for a long time, does anybody test this detector in Europe ? I am a bechcomber, now i use minelab Equinox on wet sand since march 2018. It 's very good. I work for a long time to improve my detector, i created a carbon shaft, headphones with ear defender....
Of course i am interesting by this new detector, i saw the vidéos from TnSharpshooter; what it could be interesting it ' s a test on the beach with a gold ring 18 carats to compare Equinox with Tarsacci.
I like the cardon shaft of this détector, great job !

I would like to test this detector on frenches beaches, may be one day !

regards from france,

Magus.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ShovelNose Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No you can balance on wet sand after doing a dry
> s
> > and balance. You balance over water if you are g
> oi
> > ng to be in the water. Once done if you hear noi
> se
> > when coil get near sand rebalance. Don't GB in w
> et
> > sand.
>
>
> Funny that the manual says nothing about salinity
> balancing on the wet sand.
>
> Ground balancing might be a little tough because o
> ur beaches don't have any dry sand this time of ye
> ar.
>
> We'll see how it goes. I hope the lack of a dry sa
> nd ground balance doesn't detract from performance
> .
>
> .

You are not confusing wet (non salt) sand to wet salt sand are you??

Here’s what was posted earlier here.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> * One of the paradigm-shifts: Ground Balance the u
> nit in the dry sand FIRST. ((( And in a different
> fashion: Hold coil about 10" above the ground. Pre
> ss and hold GB button. Lower the coil to about 1"
> off of ground. Release GB button. DONE. ))) Then.
> ..…… walk down to the wet-salt. . . and manually z
> eroize your local wet-salt content/volume. Now the
> detector … no longer even sees the wet-salt. It is
> not 'canceled'. It is not phase-shifted out. It is
> not Ground Balanced out. The high conductivity of
> the wet-salt is no longer seen. This is a fairly l
> arge dramatic departure from all other detectors.
> First time in history. A paradigm-shift.
>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2019 06:22PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are not confusing wet (non salt) sand to wet s
> alt sand are you??
>
> Here’s what was posted earlier here.
>
> NASA-Tom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> > * One of the paradigm-shifts: Ground Balance
> the u
> > nit in the dry sand FIRST. ((( And in a differen
> t
> > fashion: Hold coil about 10" above the ground. P
> re
> > ss and hold GB button. Lower the coil to about 1
> "
> > off of ground. Release GB button. DONE. ))) The
> n.
> > ..…… walk down to the wet-salt. . . and manually
> z
> > eroize your local wet-salt content/volume. Now t
> he
> > detector … no longer even sees the wet-salt. It
> is
> > not 'canceled'. It is not phase-shifted out. It
> is
> > not Ground Balanced out. The high conductivity o
> f
> > the wet-salt is no longer seen. This is a fairly
> l
> > arge dramatic departure from all other detectors
> .
> > First time in history. A paradigm-shift.
> >


My beaches are wet salt. I didn't think it necessary to specify because 99% of the time, wet sand means wet salt to most people.

My question now is where/how do I ground balance if the beach has no dry sand?

This video shows one of the beaches we detect in NH. In the summer the sand is three or four feet deep here. In the winter it's mostly rocks. Awesome ring find at 7:30. [youtu.be]

The diamond turned out to be real.

.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2019 09:55PM by Badger in NH.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You are not confusing wet (non salt) sand to wet
> s
> > alt sand are you??
> >
> > Here’s what was posted earlier here.
> >
> > NASA-Tom Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> >
> >
> > > * One of the paradigm-shifts: Ground Balanc
> e
> > the u
> > > nit in the dry sand FIRST. ((( And in a differ
> en
> > t
> > > fashion: Hold coil about 10" above the ground.
> P
> > re
> > > ss and hold GB button. Lower the coil to about
> 1
> > "
> > > off of ground. Release GB button. DONE. ))) T
> he
> > n.
> > > ..…… walk down to the wet-salt. . . and manual
> ly
> > z
> > > eroize your local wet-salt content/volume. Now
> t
> > he
> > > detector … no longer even sees the wet-salt. I
> t
> > is
> > > not 'canceled'. It is not phase-shifted out. I
> t
> > is
> > > not Ground Balanced out. The high conductivity
> o
> > f
> > > the wet-salt is no longer seen. This is a fair
> ly
> > l
> > > arge dramatic departure from all other detecto
> rs
> > .
> > > First time in history. A paradigm-shift.
> > >
>
>
> My beaches are wet salt. I didn't think it necessa
> ry to specify because 99% of the time, wet sand me
> ans wet salt to most people.
>
> My question now is where/how do I ground balance i
> f the beach has no dry sand?
>
> This is one of the beaches we detect in NH. In the
> summer the sand is three or four feet deep here. I
> n the winter it's mostly rocks. [www.youtu]
> be.com/watch?v=TKXCXO-pWY0&t=959s
>
> .


You could experiement, say dial in 501 and do Salt Balance and bury targrt and see what happens. Say a nickel.

Cabin Fever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not expecting PI performance but am curious i
> f it has more depth then a multi frequency VLF
> such as the Equinox in moderately mineralized dir
> t.
>
> Bryan

This. I am most interested in seeing how it compares to the EQX, etc....but on the beach (us east coast). As of now I've got the EQX and am pretty happy with performance and the $600 price tag. Its going to be tough to convince me to get something more expensive but inches do matter.

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You could experiement, say dial in 501 and do Salt
> Balance and bury targrt and see what happens. Say
> a nickel.


Yes, that might work. I suppose I also could find some dry sand at various other beaches nearby, ground balance there and keep track of the numbers.

.

For most people the near $1k difference may be pretty hard to justify. I beach hunt 800 plus hours a year. I see it as a part of my tool kit. I've mostly used the 8000 for the last 2 months, but I still use my 800. How much more will anyone find with the Tarsacci over the Equinox can never be answered. I really like both. I think the Tarsacci has great potential as I learn to use/understand it better. Using Disc & Mix instead of All M on the beach yesterday allowed pleasant hunting on such a horribly trashy beach often you 'd get 3 ferrous hits per swing. I was super impressed to dig one nickel at 12 - 14 inches. It laser indicated center of the hole the whole way, never ID shifted even out of the hole.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2019 11:21PM by Pasttom.

"I am most interested in seeing how it compares to the EQX, etc....but on the beach (us east coast). As of now I've got the EQX and am pretty happy with performance and the $600 price tag. Its going to be tough to convince me to get something more expensive but inches do matter"

Coming up to Wilmington this weekend so if you get free I'd like to let you take a look.

I sold my EQ and while at this point it is an all around MD I had several issues with the platform. I haven't missed mine at all but I'm not doing a lot of land hunting lately. I dug 3 very green nickels today and not a one the EQ my friend was using would see. They were hard to get being over 10" down in the very wet sand. I call it quick sand. The 8000 not only saw them(18k) it was a stable 6,5 ID. I was scraping a hard surface with a green coating of mush. My scoop tip was bringing this mossy stuff up with it. I wasn't going to stop with a nickel signal that strong. Not all the targets and coins I dug today were that deep but most were and it will make an guy question why I'm I doing this to myself.

Think I'll go back to dirt fishing. Its much easier! lol

On page 21 it talks about salt balance in the wet sand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2019 10:49PM by ShovelNose.