ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

That was good news Cliff...... and there is room for tweaks, not to mention i think you will find in the wet sand 18 and 12Khz is about an inch or so deeper. I noted you said the same as i .....it hit the ring well on its side at 10. Nox aint the best at that. Im using a pair of older Harold did with audio sear speaker... sounds very nice. Curious how you like the ping pong tones? I like them out of the water...... gives that SOLID sound that say a gold ring does over a pull tag in standard tones on most machines. Little more tricky in the water without the screen and running it a bit hot. Switching over on a piece of iron..... hot, it tends to wraparound to some of those high digits...... thou our disc settings seem to help and you learn its slower over iron that a good target. Like i told you ...... think about it that was less than 3 grams.... what if it were 10 grams? Then you say...... where the heck are all them at out here ......cause thy got to be deep lol. Targets for me yesterday were just really deep...... like i said, some i thought were cans they sounded so good and were so deep. Lot more time needed.... but thus far im liking it.

You know i kind of get what Daniel is saying in that ......its all about whats available for use (coils, headphones, settings) and which machine will do the best job. Like right now ive got to compare the machine to the Nox ... simply because i think its doing what i want the best and when looking for a new machine thats what i want ..... one that surpassed what i have. Apples to Oranges maybe.... but you are comparing a PI to this machine



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2019 07:24PM by dewcon4414.

Little something from yesterday..... 6.5 grams of 9CT. I ended the day with 4 rings total...... 2 silver, 1 SS, and this one. I was digging man holes out there wondering is my PP that off with this machine? On the ring i heard it very clear..... so i figured about 5" so a short scoop. Dead center in the hole after another BIG scoop. Keep in mind i have a 101/2" StarvR scoop. Still in the hole...... circled the hole testing the signal location.... used the tip of the coil even..... then switched to PP ..... still where i thought it was. Took another scoop ..... and by then was straddling the hole .... you water hunters know what im taking about. Volume of that targets changed very little. I was starting to think.... can lid? Could it have been on the side...... of course, or sand was pushing it out of my scoop even. I didnt want to put my Nox down just thinking i might be missing small gold...... but ill take the bigger stuff.

Daniel...… that's exactly the type of (technical) info that I/we like. Thanks for taking the time and sharing that info!
I am a bit surprised that you found the T2/F75 does better in severe mineralization...… as compared to the Tarsacci (and for many reasons)! But...….. ok.

Just curious Cliff what size was your 2.5 gram ring? My 3 gram test was on a size 9 1/2. I’m wondering if size might matter....as well as thickness

"Well done Dew! That's a nice ring...BIG...t'would fit my 'Boy Scout neckerchief hah hah hah...!"

Thanks Des buddy. So buttery I thought gotta be 18k. This time of the year I’m out there like a squirrel looking for that lost but.....working at it. Can’t get these people in the water lol.

Dew, that test ring I used is a 9 3/4 by 4 mm wide band 10k 2.5 grams.


Cliff

The one thing people tend to forget here when comparing depth is out vs in the water. We are getting more depth than the Nox in the wet sand. But in the water all machines become equal very quickly...they struggle and it’s very difficult to show or get a good depth reading at say waist deep. How many vedios have you seen giving an accurate test in and out of the water? There is a lot of guest-ta-ments ... and a lot of people cant PP lol. All this is important why.... because if this machine can maintain most of that depth while others loose even more depth... well it’s obvious you add inches over other machines. It appears by my checking the salt balance at different depths it goes up as does mineral noise. You hear it on the Nox from shallow to deeper water....so to run it smoother without all that hard pan chatter you then have to reduce sensitivity even further. So now ...you have reduced power of beach 2, SET salt balance you can’t change, AND you need to reduce sensitivity...what’s all that mean to depth? now a good combo would be to see the Nox get more sensitivity to small gold in and out of the water with this machine to go after deeper gold.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2019 08:30PM by dewcon4414.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shovel....next time out turn off blk sand. Run -1
> T, 7 sensitivity if you can, AM, Locate a target i
> n 18khz....then switch to 9khz tell me that ain’t
> a cleaner sound. Also try slowly manually moving
> your salt up if using 18Khz....curious what you he
> ar. Ive tested over a 100 various pieces of gold
> jewelry only a couple of very very tiny crosses an
> d small chain I couldn’t get in 9khz. That’s in t
> he water.

Dew Congrats on 9k ring. What digits did it throw for ID? My Platinum came in solid 9, 10 I have been running those setting almost from day one. I'll try the 9k change next time I go. I will be setting my GB manually to 560 as have found sand so mild where I'm hunting 8000 doesn't see anything to balance with. I have several digits room to adjust SB before it changes from silent when bobbing the coil to making a tone 24 to 27. I hunt the low tide and Don't think I have gotten in past mid calf depth. Heading out in am so hope I have something to show. Lots of pressure on the beaches I hunt lately.

Ive not found several digits variance on the salt balance. I balance until on the downward push it gets somewhat silent.... but i hear it on the upward stoke. at that point i go back one more digit. On 18khz...... that seems to be 27 in shallow water. When hunting in the water ..... have you noticed a TICK? Cliff mentioned it yesterday ..... what i found is everytime i get that its a digit jump... maybe EMI.. but it will give you a tick sound thru the headphones. Could be just picking up minerals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2019 09:14PM by dewcon4414.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He was using the Nox..... just kicking my butt digging targets in the wet sand in front
> of me.

Dew...there is a very easy solution to solve that problem.

Get in front of him !!!

Therover.......my intent WAS to hunt behind him. I wanted to see what he might miss. He didnt miss much......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2019 09:12PM by dewcon4414.

Dew,

I know what your real intent was. Good report and analysis. The get in front of him comment was for a laugh.

After reading a lot of the posts and comments on the Tarsacci, it does seem the design and intent of the unit is being recognized. I have on several occasions buckled up and searched for small gold (which also means small foil, those wonderful rivets you mentioned as well as old .22 shell casings from old board walk shooting games) when dry sand hunting the beaches. I never found much in terms of small gold that way. In fact, the better small gold and chains I have found in the dry sand have actually come from normal hunts as opposed to specific hunting.

I am still up in the air on this one (Tarsacci). My best gold rings have been found in the wet sand using a PI. That just may be due to the fact that PI hunting is dig all, so the probability rises since I am not leaving anything in the ground when I hunt with my PI's.

Awww you say that ....but what uS is the PI? This machine likes surface iron....so I’m getting some idea as to just how much can be there with a PI.

I use an Infinium with the 12x10 mono coil and I just picked up a TDI Beach Hunter (haven't used it yet).

Used to have a few other PI's including an Eric Foster Gold Quest with the 10 inch coil. Wish I still had it but I am not technically inclined so if it went South, I wouldn't know who could service it.

Infinium has found my best ring finds by far. Not sure why, but it has. .

Third hunt with the Tarsacci 800....

Things I like about the machine: Strong lightweight build, Good balance overall, Great target modulation on small/deep targets, Great battery life, I'm at 10 hours now and the voltage is still 3.9 showing full on the battery indicator.

Settings used: BS off, Threshold -1, sensitivity 7, Salt 32, 9Khz most of the hunt, disc +29, mostly AM but did switch off from time to time and to check targets.

Side by side hunt with the Tarsacci and an Equinox 800 with a 15” coil.
Started the night checking each other’s targets to see if there were any glaring differences. With only one exception, every target checked we could both hear. Now that one exception was a bit eye opening for my buddy with the 15" coil. The target modulation on the Tarsacci is a strong point of it (IMO), although in AM, it makes you stop quite often to see the numbers and determine IF you want to dig. I got a soft tone that was repeatable, the Equinox could not hear it, one scoop removed, the Equinox did hear it BUT was giving off more of an iron tone so we both thought possible bottle cap. Second scoop and it was out of the hole and turned out to be a 925 stud earring. I'm guessing in the 8-10" range in depth although my buddy thought more like 12" (we will never know for sure).
Rest of the night was a typical boring night on the beach with more can slaw, and the usual aluminum trash targets with occasional coins. One exception was a Case pocket knife I found.

Did some testing with a 2.5 gram 10k size 9 ¾ ring:
To test this time, I dug a trench 16" deep at one end progressively shallower at the other end. Using this trench allowed me to push the test ring inside the sidewall of the trench having untouched wet sand above it. I believe this "may" have introduced a limiting factor in my test results (my theory). Neither machine could get the ring at 16", at 14" the Equinox failed and I thought I heard it in 9KHz, switched to the other frequencies and it wasn't any better. I did up the sensitivity to 8 at that point. At 12", I heard it clearly on all frequencies however I did feel 12 KHz was stronger. The Equinox STILL couldn't hear it BUT when he bumped up to 24 as a sensitivity, it did pick it up with loads of chatter....he stated he wouldn't have found it because "he doesn't hunt at those settings due to the noise”. I let him hear the soft repeatable signal out of my machine and he asked if I would have dug that and I said yes, it is a soft repeatable tone, it needs investigated....just like the silver earring earlier.

Bottom line is I was slightly disappointed that I didn't hear the target at 14" this way of testing ensures undisturbed sand to the target "however" it also introduces a huge air gap for half the coil to run over. My thought is that air gap invalidates the test results "for both machines". I believe this strongly since previous tests I’ve had NO problem hitting the same ring at 14” of wet salt sand with a filled hole.
Next weekend I will re-do the test against the 15” coil only this time, no open trench to skew the results I believe both machines can/will do better.

Cliff

Please post some user experience and comparisons. It's been king of quiet here and we had a 3 day weekend.

I've been waiting for some warm weather to do more depth and comparison testing. It has to be warm enough for bare hands. Maybe this weekend.

.

Cliff...…. I finally have a moment to comment. When you dug a hole in the wet sand whilst going after that stud earring...………. the EQX will detect the divot/hole...… and report it as 'iron'. This is normal for the EQX platform..... if it is set up properly. For best performance; you are trying to hunt with the settings close to the 'hairy-edge' of stability/instability.
This also exactly ties in to the trench that you dug. Half of the coil (Equinox, Tarsacci…..or otherwise) will have 1/2 of the coil passing over the trench..... and the other half of the coil passing over the wet sand. Even though both units are (1/2) being passed over the trench...…. this does invalidate the test a bit. The EQX is much more likely to be biased to the delta/difference (the trench) …… if it is set up properly (on the hairy-edge)…….. which is does sound like it was set up properly.,.,.,.,.,. in your case/test. . . . . and the EQX will detect/report the hole (1/2-trench) with a (most likely) iron audio response. The more ideal thing to do …. is to dig a hole.,.,.,.,. drop the target in the hole.,.,.,.,.,., then cover the hole completely...….. and pack it down. Even then...……… the 'disturbed' dirt/sand will have 'some' bearing on biasing (possibly invalidating) the test. . . . . . BUT..... will probably give you enough data to successfully fulfill your quest.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cliff...…. I finally have a moment to comment. Whe
> n you dug a hole in the wet sand whilst going afte
> r that stud earring...………. the EQX will detect the
> divot/hole...… and report it as 'iron'. This is no
> rmal for the EQX platform..... if it is set up pro
> perly. For best performance; you are trying to hun
> t with the settings close to the 'hairy-edge' of s
> tability/instability.
> This also exactly ties in to the trench that you d
> ug. Half of the coil (Equinox, Tarsacci…..or other
> wise) will have 1/2 of the coil passing over the t
> rench..... and the other half of the coil passing
> over the wet sand. Even though both units are (1/2
> ) being passed over the trench...…. this does inva
> lidate the test a bit. The EQX is much more likely
> to be biased to the delta/difference (the trench)
> …… if it is set up properly (on the hairy-edge)…….
> . which is does sound like it was set up properly.
> ,.,.,.,.,. in your case/test. . . . . and the EQX
> will detect/report the hole (1/2-trench) with a (m
> ost likely) iron audio response. The more ideal t
> hing to do …. is to dig a hole.,.,.,.,. drop the t
> arget in the hole.,.,.,.,.,., then cover the hole
> completely...….. and pack it down. Even then...………
> the 'disturbed' dirt/sand will have 'some' bearing
> on biasing (possibly invalidating) the test. . . .
> . . BUT..... will probably give you enough data to
> successfully fulfill your quest.

Thanks Tom, I was fairly certain I was correct in the assumption/theory.

In addition to a PM I sent you about the CZ21 (8" coil) test side by side with the MDT, we tested again with another CZ and 8" coil. The results were just a bit different. Machine 1 no signal heard at 12" same with machine 2, pulling up the ring (now on edge) machine 1 didn't hear it until 4" under the surface, Machine 2 however did pick it up around 6" in "autotune" however nothing in disc. At 4" Machine 2 hit it in both disc and autotune. MDT hit the ring at 12" and on edge at 10, 8, and 4 inches. Test was done with a marked cord, hole filled and packed wet salt sand. MDT settings used : BS off, Threshold -1, sensitivity 7, Salt 32, 9Khz, disc +29, All Metal mode.

I will re-run the test against the Equinox (15" coil) early Saturday (using a filled hole, no trench!) and will post the results afterwards.

On a side note, I pulled the battery to charge after 14 hours of use. At that time, the voltage shown on the machine was still 3.9 VDC and still had 3 bars showing on the machine. Newly charged battery showed 4.1 VDC upon installation.

Cliff

Our settings at 9khz work exceptionally well in the water.....so it’s likely you can increase that depth in 18 or 12khz on the wet sand....try those with bulk sand on then off.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our settings at 9khz work exceptionally well in th
> e water.....so it’s likely you can increase that d
> epth in 18 or 12khz on the wet sand....try those w
> ith bulk sand on then off.


Dew, I will try the other frequencies in the wet. Still figuring this thing out and right now prefer to stick with the basic settings until I understand the tonal differences in the different modes. With a few more hours on the machine, I'll feel more comfortably to dial it in better.

Cliff

McMaster-Carr is where the O-rings for the battery cover/door were acquired..... (for those interested).

Cliff; yes, your resultant is congruent with my findings ….. with all of your testings…. with a gold ring 'flat'...…. and 'on-edge' …. in the wet-salt ….. whilst comparing to CZ-20/CZ-21/Excal/Sov.

I'm surprised that more folks are not 'queueing' in on the tremendous performance difference the Tarsacci is providing …… on your 10" deep 'on-edge' gold ring...… whereby ….. the Tarsacci can acquire/detect it at 10" (with mild settings). . . . . . . . compared to the CZ only being able to acquire it at around the 5" depth mark. This stupendous performance difference (delta)…….. should open some eyes...……. and is the first/initial signs …. (with more discoveries to be made)…………. of what the Tarsacci can do...…. and where it's 'design target' intent was engineered. Yes...…. 12KHz and 18KHz would perform even better …. on your tests (((gold ring on-edge))); yet, I understand 'why' you choose to use/test 9KHZ...….. because this is your intended frequency-of-choice for IN the wet-salt water. (A good plan).

All of this equates to "why" Dimitar & I have targeted 'experienced users' for the initial batch of MDT-8000's.

On a side-note; Gold rings that have a wide top (and narrow bottom)……. have a fairly large propensity to 'tilt' …… or...…. go 'on-edge'.,.,.,.,.,.,., especially if the wider/larger top of the ring ...has a top/setting/stone. If the top of the ring is heavier than the bottom...…. gravity will pull the heavy part of the ring: 'downward'. . . . . . subsequently placing the ring 'on-edge'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2019 07:55AM by NASA-Tom.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McMaster-Carr is where the O-rings for the battery
> cover/door were acquired..... (for those intereste
> d).
>
> Cliff; yes, your resultant is congruent with my fi
> ndings ….. with all of your testings…. with a gold
> ring 'flat'...…. and 'on-edge' …. in the wet-salt
> ….. whilst comparing to CZ-20/CZ-21/Excal/Sov.
>
> I'm surprised that more folks are not 'queueing' i
> n on the tremendous performance difference the Tar
> sacci is providing …… on your 10" deep 'on-edge' g
> old ring...… whereby ….. the Tarsacci can acquire/
> detect it at 10" (with mild settings). . . . . . .
> . compared to the CZ only being able to acquire it
> at around the 5" depth mark. This stupendous perfo
> rmance difference (delta)…….. should open some eye
> s...……. and is the first/initial signs …. (with mo
> re discoveries to be made)…………. of what the Tarsac
> ci can do...…. and where it's 'design target' inte
> nt was engineered. Yes...…. 12KHz and 18KHz would
> perform even better …. on your tests (((gold ring
> on-edge))); yet, I understand 'why' you choose to
> use/test 9KHZ...….. because this is your intended
> frequency-of-choice for IN the wet-salt water. (A
> good plan).
>
> All of this equates to "why" Dimitar & I have targ
> eted 'experienced users' for the initial batch of
> MDT-8000's.
>
> On a side-note; Gold rings that have a wide top (a
> nd narrow bottom)……. have a fairly large propensit
> y to 'tilt' …… or...…. go 'on-edge'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
> especially if the wider/larger top of the ring ...
> has a top/setting/stone. If the top of the ring is
> heavier than the bottom...…. gravity will pull the
> heavy part of the ring: 'downward'. . . . . . subs
> equently placing the ring 'on-edge'.

Tom, thanks for the validation of my test results! Tonight a side by side (again) with the Equinox 15" coil and for my interest I will add another test ring to the mix. I really want to see how deep this machine goes on a large ring, should be interesting.

Cliff

Yes...…. I am very curious how the Tarsacci performs with its small coil...… compared to the huge 15" coil on the Equinox .,.,., on a large gold ring. A large gold ring with a large coil …… should help the Equinox numbers ….quite a bit.

In considering coil disparity I feel compelled to add that while the Equinox is an excellent detector and will find most of what the MDT will, the price difference is a premium for the cutting edge advantage of the remaining finds... But one shouldn't overlook the difference the 15 inch coil makes to the muscle, joints and endurance of us golden year gold hunters. Even the 11 inch seems to take a greater toll on me. The Tarsacci is a dream to swing and is noticeably smoother in the water than even the 11 inch Equinox.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Pasttom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In considering coil disparity I feel compelled to
> add that while the Equinox is an excellent detecto
> r and will find most of what the MDT will, the pri
> ce difference is a premium for the cutting edge ad
> vantage of the remaining finds... But one shouldn'
> t overlook the difference the 15 inch coil makes t
> o the muscle, joints and endurance of us golden ye
> ar gold hunters. Even the 11 inch seems to take a
> greater toll on me. The Tarsacci is a dream to sw
> ing and is noticeably smoother in the water than e
> ven the 11 inch Equinox.
I agree 100% the Tarsacci is one light, ergonomically designed detector that has a very perceivable edge in depth and in detection over anything I have in my metal detecting tool box. I love to use it on the beach when areas I know have targets get sanded in and I need that extra depth the Tarsacci provides. I have a 15" coil for my 800 Equinox and while I am happy with it on the beach it does not compare to the Tarsacci in ease of use in the water nor the pin point ability of the Tarsacci.

Metal Detecting is my drug of choice.
I get high with an Equinox 800, Equinox 600, two Excalibur ll with 10" slim-line coils, Excalibur 1000 with 10" BBS, Mr. Gold's phones, Plugger carbon fiber shafts, Sov GT with Patrick meter mod & S12 coil, Tarsacci MDT-8000. Last, but not least a Tesoro Cibola with a 11x8 Delta DD coil.

Integrity is what we do when we think no one is looking!

Ive had the flu for over a week now...... ive have tried the last couple of days to hunt but a couple of hours and im done. NO water hunting so ive been kicking the wet sand for targets. Went yesterday with a friend who uses the Xcal. He wanted to see what his machine would do on my 3 gram ring on a string. So i buried 12" in the very wet sand........ NADA not even in PP mode with the coil on the sand. Handed him my machine....... he said wow that ring doesnt sound that deep. He did the ole raise the coil thing too lol. I pulled the string slightly just to turn it on edge..... so lets say 11"..... even on edge the 8000 liked that ring. Raised it up to 10" and he said i might dig that if i wasnt moving to fast. To me the estimate of 3 to 4" over an Xcal is pretty accurate in the wet sand. Im interested to see what Cliff says about that larger ring... depth wise. This time im out is giving him more time to learn the machine ..... so hopefully we can get together and do a little testing IN the water. Not many tests or u-tube videos showing what kind of depth we are really getting out there with our water machines..... most of its guess-ta-ments.....and some is fish stories or bad PPing lol. I hope to show a few finds at the end of the month... once i recover from this plague lol. I know thats what both of us wanted to see before getting this machine. Feb for me has consistently been my worse month ..couple of golds normally. Beaches fill up ... but most are looking to just soak up the sun.... not get in the cold choppy water and im not a real dry sand hunter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2019 11:38AM by dewcon4414.

I just wanted to take a minute for a throw in another tidbit about relic hunting from the other day.

I had been waiting to get back to the bullet site with a Deus, since it is single freq and shares similar selectable frequencies to the MDT. On this trip I did not have the MDT there for comparison between the two but I THINK there was enough info there to allow me an educated guess to post this. On the Deus, the mineral meter averaged 9 bars at the bullet field. On the F75, the average is 4 TO 5 bars, and in some places in the field it will max it out with 6 bars.

From what I have saw, the two behave very similar in the hot soil at the same frequencies. I think the Deus might have a slight edge due to being able to adjust the reactivity speed; but it is not as pronounced as I thought it would be. I have the X35 11 inch round coil on the Deus which I think is the actual reason for the slight edge. The depth to which I could detect bullets is very near the same as with the MDT. If you run disc mode on the Deus, you wont hear any of the bullets. Gold Field does appear to be the strongest program on it, and it's even better for bullets if I used the 8 and 12 khz frequencies....same as with the MDT there, because it's essentially an all metal mode. A brisker sweep speed helps too. The ground noise factor is there with it...meaning you have to balance out how hot you can run it. If you run it hot, you can detect individual pre marked bullets but then the noise is so bad you can't possibly hunt with it away from that individual spot. If you eliminate the noise then you lose the ability to detect the deeper bullets. AKA the balancing act.

I have not ran the Deus with the elliptical coil that would be closer to the size of the MDT. Just guessing again...I feel the MDT would have quite an edge over the Deus going head to head in mineralized ground if the coils were matched. I'm pretty sure I read in this thread where there were no current plans to offer additional coil sizes for the machine. That is a bummer...I would love to see what this machine could do with a round coil in the 11 to 12 inch size.

Results from last night’s testing.
MDT Settings: BS off, Threshold -1, Sensitivity 7, Salt 30, 9 KHz, Disc +29, All Metal
Rings used: 2.5 gram 10k band, 13.5 gram Class Ring 10k

Tested in the wet salt sand, holes filled and packed down.

Previous testing showed the MDT could hear the 2.5 gram 10k at 12” so I started with 14” this time (ring laying flat). Neither the Equinox (15” coil) OR the MDT could “hear” the ring.
Pulled the ring up to 12” (now on edge), again neither machine could hear the target. Being on edge makes a difference in depth.
Pulled the ring up to 10” and now both machines heard the target.

Now testing the 13.5 gram Class ring. Ring was put in the hole on edge (stone side down) at 16”.
MDT “heard” the ring with a soft repeatable tone in All Metal on every swing in every direction. The Equinox did not give a repeatable signal (at his hunting settings 19 sensitivity). Raising the recovery speed made it worse. Only after turning up the sense to 25 he did acquire the target repeatably however the machine was very chatty and he stated he would not hunt like that.
I did try the MDT in Disc. over the 16” ring and did not get a repeatable signal. No further adjustments were made to the MDT.
We did no further testing on the large ring since it was already on edge.

Those are “my” results, your beach, machine and your settings can/will change the results but this can be a basis as to what may be obtainable with this machine.
The signal I heard over the 16” deep ring I would have dug to determine what it may have been or at least until I had a reliable TID (TID jumpy at that depth). One advantage the MDT has is when adjusted properly, you can have a quiet machine and that makes those soft repeatable signals stand out from the silence.

I’m at 18 hours now on the machine and still loads to learn.

As for the hunt itself, loads of small rivets, aluminum, pull tabs and coins. Different beach tomorrow with "hopefully" better results!
Cliff