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ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Posted by NASA-Tom 
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 01, 2019 11:04PM
You are right about it being fast. You start getting a digital read near a target....might be in the low digit like you said 6ish .... but as the target nears the center of the coil you gea a more realistic TID



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2019 09:29AM by dewcon4414.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 01, 2019 11:08PM
OBN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Carolina Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > ol. At the present I own 17 detectors and have s
> pe
> > nt the time learning all their quirks.
>
>
> "T" ...........that has to be a record...

Hi Joe: Don’t see you post here a lot. I’m honored. I never have mastered that trade up option I always heard about. LOL. I have the following and many I would part with. 1- Whites coinmaster / 1- Whites dual field / 1- Fisher aquanaut / 1- Garrett ADS III / 1- Notka Makro multi Kruzer / 2- Minelab Swords / 2- Blue Excal. 1000’s / 2- Green Excal. II’s / 1- Minelab Xterra 705 / 1- Minelab CTX / 1- Minelab Equinox 800 / 2- VALLON VMH3CS / 1- Tarsacci MDT 8000. That’s 17 total and twice that many coils. I would part with many of them. Get your order in fast!!! Lol Hope all your family is doing well in these troubled times.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 01, 2019 11:22PM
Pasttom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I am down to 11 and seeking to find homes
> for many of those, so I understand a bit about tha
> t. Not knowing exactly others experience and skil
> l levels and trying to make somewhat general comme
> ntary I hope you didn't feel slighted. I've more
> experience with the 'nox though I first swung a Ta
> rsacci over 18 months ago. I have seen the range
> on targets stretch in ground with zinc pennies goi
> ng 50% over AND under their surface readings (and
> some that still read that far out). I could well
> be wrong, but I think it is not the machines issue
> . I think it is reading environment variables int
> o the equation and maybe even variations in the co
> in/target itself. This is mainly what my comment
> was based upon that the game has changed and needs
> rethinking about IDing. I am still working throug
> h this in my head and maybe was premature in voici
> ng it.
>
> I am really glad to see a lot more guys with 8000s
> . It was kinda lonely for several months. It's a
> great unit and there is a lot to discover in getti
> ng premium performance with it. At the same time
> it is easy to get frustrated not fully understandi
> ng its unique interactions. I love the spirit of
> teamwork and growth on this forum. That is why it
> is the first thing I check almost every morning.


Tom, I think I might have miss understood Dew’s comments on TID’s. In my mind I thought he was seeing his targets lock in on a specific TID. I agree entirely that depth, minerals, actual condition of target as well as other factors make the TID jump with most all machines. I guess my CTX gives the most solid ID of al my machines. Even it can be fooled at times. Knowing the water I’m hunting in let’s me make my decision onto dig or not to dig as I said before on tone, shape and size. Again I might have mistaken Dew as saying he gets a solid TID on his targets.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 12:26AM
In the water like you I find a target and I’m watching those digits IRON shallow gives a solid ID pennies dimes and quarters can be IDed .....but I’m listening for that low ping pong. Why most gold comes in 10 and under digit. I get good but not CTX SOLID IDs. But I like this machine in the water....and I’m finding gold.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 01:04AM
I to like this machine and as soon as the water warms a bit more I will venture into the bay. Awkward period for me now. To hot for wetsuit, to cold without. I will spend this summer with the Tarsacci to get the feel for it. When will we find out if there is a second coil out there floating around. I am checking the parameters of this coil to see if I can duplicate it with a round 10”.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 09:50AM
I had caught something Tom said about a second coil....but i was told he might just have been talking about the coil that was replaced on the machine. Tom did mention he would like a second coil though if my memory serves me. PasterTom....what sensitivity/threshold you running? Thomas.....I’m running really hot now 9khz 0 threshold and 9 sensitivity....I can’t think of a machine you could run in the water FULL sensitivity and get any kind of stable digits. Running it more sensible in the -1 threshold and say 7 sensitivity would likely help I’m sure. I prefer to run it hot though since it’s still quiet.....but out of the water you get the pop sound and you can look down and see the digits moving .....that’s likly to hot. But the water seems to reduce external interference which allows me to hunt the way I do. It’s all about the NOISE to on a water machine.

I think Joe can tell you with his Xcal.....he’s hunting in PP with great headphones running as hot as he can.....something he can’t do in disc ...because of the falling.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 10:22AM
Dew, I asked Dimitar yesterday about the “extra” coil Tom mentioned. He said it’s simply the same coil and size but configured a little different for testing purposes in the Culpepper soil.

No new coil at this time.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 10:40AM
Dew & Cliff...…. yes...…. you guys are in the 70% measurement of: IN-THE-WATER hunters; yet, neither of you are in the 70% speechless, don't-let-the-cat-out-of-the-bag... group!

Any brand of metal detector will have difficulty ID'ing composite metals...… the way WE want them to ID which "specific" portion of metal (in the composite) …… for our decision-making process. There is a principle-of-physics that can be difficult for a Mfr (Design Engineer) to overcome/circumvent; ……. that being.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,. For example: Electrons flow on the outer surface of a metal (composite included) target. If it is a steel bottlecap that has a outer (protective) coating of Zinc...…… the subsequent enveloping signal that a metal detector will (primarily) see.... is = ZINC (a non-ferrous portion of the composite metallic device). Sooooooooo………. this steel bottlecap will ID as a non-ferrous target. A Nickel-plated fishhook is another example. Principle-of-physics.
(((Just because we can 'see' with our own eyes..... that a magnet will easily pick up a steel bottlecap...…. does NOT mean: That's what the metal detector also "sees". On-the-contrary!!!))).

BUT...….. Mfr's struggle with "how much" of WHICH PORTION of the composite metal should we allow our detector to: report/ID. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . IF the principle-of-physics can even be bent/altered. With Minelab, , , , , , the EQX being the primary example: we decided to create a user-friendly interface that would allow adjustability …. for the end-user (to get in trouble with!) to custom-tailor to specific/exacting applications. . . . . . . via a function called: Iron Bias. With Iron Bias being on maximum '9' setting...…… you have a Explorer.,.,.,. that is very (non-ear-bashing) friendly (especially to a novice)…… whereby; only a little iron-content in the composite...… and the target will ID as 'ferrous' to the detector. This comes at a (severe) cost of: Masking. ----- On the other hand; you can set Iron Bias to '0' on the EQX to ascertain substantial unmasking performance-resultant...…… (yes.....at a cost of more ear-bashing). To a seasoned professional...…. this is a major attribute. It is nice to have this user-friendly adjustability. (It is nicer to generate-to-inception: a paradigm-shift venue).

The Tarsacci is quite different (from the norm) in its engineering design operating parameters. It's ''""perceived""" ID accuracy is only about 70% accurate...… when compared to conventional VLF units. I also need to say: The Tarsacci is 70% "ID-familiar" to us VLF users/hunters. It is in the remainder 30%..... that us seasoned hunters.....do not understand...….. and think there might be fault. (I call it: "quirky"...……………..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, when...…………….in actuality; this is a deliberate targeted engineering design intent --advancement-- that is proving to be a major attribute). So as NOT to infringe upon corporate protection..... it is difficult for me to (safely) explain more data. You guys have discovered that the Tarsacci is not a (no ID) PI. You have also discovered that the Tarsacci (do to this 30% delta) is 'different'...from a VLF.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,. even though it looks VLF'ish….. due to: being able to select "VLF" frequencies; ie: 6.4KHz, 9KHz, 12KHz, 18KHZ. And...……. you are seeing that the Tarsacci is more than just a couple-of-tenths of an inch deeper than other VLF units...…. especially in salt and/or black sand conditions. With small quirks: comes major (usable) attributes. USE the EQX Iron Bias to your advantage (and unsuspecting learning-curve). USE the Tarsacci to your advantage (and unsuspecting learning-curve)! Learn, learn, learn!
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 12:43PM
Dew you certainly are running it hot! My conservative setting is -1 / 7. My hot is 0 / 8. Anymore than that and it is unusable. Black sand on quiets the detector somewhat but I worry now of possible loss of depth. I think you are correct in saying the box under water quiets the machine also. You mention Joe who I can tell you prefers a under over shaft for that very reason. The Excal. runs quieter with the control tube submerged. To be honest after reading of water entering several Tarsacci units I am a little worried for my maiden voyage into chest deep water coupled with the time and depth restrictions. I do hope that issue is addressed sooner than later. HH
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 12:47PM
The coil Tom mentioned was one that Dimitar sent to Chris to try out here in our soil. I wasn't privy to the info between them so I actually have no idea which of the 2 coils is the Culpeper coil, BUT I do have both coils at my house. There are no special markings that I can find to tell them apart. I've not had the time to do any testing coil vs coil. Been busy as a one legged man trying to clog.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 03:04PM
Where is the "Like" button? Some of these posts need flagging.

HH
Mike
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 04:15PM
My 8000 is S/N 11 and I can usually run it on the highest sensitivity even in the water. My buddy Larry has #12 and he cannot. His unit seems at least 3 or maybe 4 numbers hotter than mine. Dimitar has offered to swap out one so they are the same and we declined. We end up at the same level for stable hunting, he just has a lower setting, we are fine with that. I think Larry likes that he can 'over drive' his if he wants. We swapped coils to see if this was the difference and it was not- made no difference at all.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Tarsacci MDT 8000, an Equinox 800, Deus/ORX & others...
with my brilliant Corgi, Sadie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2019 04:18PM by Pasttom.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 05:02PM
That’s a new one.....I’ve not read anywhere of water intrusion....from the battery??? We don’t have a lot of minerals here in our sand.....though I’ve got a couple of beaches the other matches require me to turn down.....no so thus far with the MDT. What freq you running Thomas? I think the biggest concern running hot is most machines grab a shallow target that they might otherwise pass up. Good to know there are two coils. My machine is 25 I believe.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 05:29PM
The Tarsacci website is not coming up with a Google search. Maybe Dimitar needs to get his internet key words in order or something.

Luckily I bookmarked the link.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 07:30PM
People seem a little stand offish about this machine, but im finding it fun to run. ID accuracy seems to take a bit........ but in the water .... i just want to know it aint IRON. And all in all i think i can. Those pesty bottle caps....... a good many of them come in way above a penny 13. Which is great for me since most gold seems to hit 10 and below like ive mentioned. The only thing ive seen kind of up-scale the digits on is a penny.... it could jump to 17 when really corroded. Im comfortable enough to LEAVE those high digit targets. As far as me being one of the 70%........ hey i like to talk about new equipment and share information. Also..... lets not forget Dimitar is in the selling detector business guys....... i for one would like to keep him in it and see what else he might come out with.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 07:45PM
There’s more than meets the eye with this machine.
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 08:22PM
Yeah Dew, I probably wouldn't dig many bottlecaps IF I decided to just dig the gold number range. Probably 70% of my bouncy 20 range numbers turn out to be bottlecaps.... quarters hit at 20, copper pennies and clad dimes 17-18, corroded zinc pennies I've dug from 10 up to 17ish. Square tabs normally 7 (mid gold range) nickels 6.

Tom, thanks for that detailed post on targets and TID's. Today I thought I had a record small gold ring, solid 02 on the machine, got it on my second scoop (bad pinpointing) it was a shallow fresh drop in waist deep water that sadly turned out to be plated.....but the TID told me it was gold and it did look like it too until I got out a loupe.

Managed to get the coil cover off without breaking it, that took some effort. Since I don't hunt in rocks, I'm leaving it off for now to see IF the machine acts differently without all that sand and shell in the cover.

Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 09:08PM
Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Tarsacci website is not coming up with a Googl
> e search. Maybe Dimitar needs to get his internet
> key words in order or something.
>
> Luckily I bookmarked the link.


It does come up doing google search with Tarsacci in search window. Is on third page though.
Just remember Tarsacci.com, real easy.

Yahoo, using it as search engine, with Tarsacci in search window. Tarsacci.com first site listed.

Dogpile search engine, Tarsacci in search window Tarsacci.com first up.

Using Bing as search engine Tarsacci.com first up.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2019 09:36PM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 09:44PM
dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That’s a new one.....I’ve not read anywhere of wat
> er intrusion....from the battery??? We don’t ha
> ve a lot of minerals here in our sand.....though I
> ’ve got a couple of beaches the other matches requ
> ire me to turn down.....no so thus far with the MD
> T. What freq you running Thomas? I think the bi
> ggest concern running hot is most machines grab a
> shallow target that they might otherwise pass up.
> Good to know there are two coils. My machine is 2
> 5 I believe.

I run 9 and 12 kHz mostly. Both run fairly smooth at -1 / 8 sensitivity. Both chat a little at 0 / 8. Depth appears to be relatively the same. Both water issues I read were behind the screen. None were battery related. One I think was from washing the unit down with a hose. Not sure how much pressure was applied. We have showers every block here so I just wash mine off under the shower to remove sand and salt. No problems there. I did drill a small 3/16 hole just above the clevis in the lower rod so water could drain out easily rather than having to tilt the detector back and forth to drain out one of the top adjustment holes. I run water in the top hole and let it flush out the bottom.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 10:27PM
Good for you.... good mode. Everyone should do that.... unless you break it down EVERY time sand will stay in the lower shaft. Also coming out of the water water stays in ...making it a bit more noise heavy.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 10:27PM
I usually run 18, Larry prefers 12.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Tarsacci MDT 8000, an Equinox 800, Deus/ORX & others...
with my brilliant Corgi, Sadie
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2019 10:54PM
PastTom.... what I’ve seen with those two frequencies..... very little depth difference but 18 kHz seems to give a better TID digit.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2019 12:00AM
Pasttom, what threshold and sensitivity for 18 kHz ? I would prefer to run 18 but it is awfully chatty here. To calm it down to be useable -1 / 6 sensitivity here.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2019 01:16AM
In furtherance...…… due to the "30%"...…………. the Tarsacci will not ID targets the way YOU think it "should". The Tarsacci is a very different architect (platform). "Why" this becomes difficult...…. is...…… YOU (an me) need to unlearn our (possibly decades) of rote-skillset ID 'expectations'...….,,,,,,,,,,,,...……. then: take on a paradigm-shift UNcomfort-zone new skillset.

For the past several decades...….. we have had only two choices of metal detectors to choose from: VLF and PI. The Tarsacci is neither; (((FINALLY! A third choice!)))

Embrace "change"! - (Read: Technological advancement).

((( #4 is in-the-works; yet, one huge difficult hurdle to overcome. Guesstimate: 2-years to go.)))
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2019 02:03AM
Civil War percussion cap, 3” deep

Salinity ON (forgot the setting)

Disc Mode

18 kHz

Disc -10

Sens 7

TH -2.

Hit pretty hard at 5 VDI, thought it was another foil, glad I dug it, these relics arnt easy to find around here.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2019 02:08AM by Aaron.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2019 10:30AM
Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m experiencing the same exact thing w my 8000 in
> fresh water and dirt.
>
> I need send it back to Dimitar anyway, I’ll have h
> im check it out.


Aaron, playing catch up on this thread, but what “same thing” are you referring to? I’m #18 so an earlier build and just want to test and be aware of issues. TIA
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2019 10:32AM
Im sure there was a hint in there somewhere Tom. For me .... and rather people want to admit it or not..... its all about IRON when beach hunting. For the most part if people would admit it ..... we dig most non-ferr targets.... except some will pass after a while of digging tiny foil. But ...... they werent even doing that with the Nox. Even if we KNOW its a high tone.......we dig it.... even those tiny rivits. In the most cases we know its to tiny to be be a piece of gold with that high of a TID say on the Nox. I know the other side of the coil with this machine is Relics..... i know you mentioned you hunted with a guy who impressed you with how he hunted for iron. So for the most part for us in the water hunters its all about the IRON.... especially on deep iffy targets.
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2019 10:44AM
Thinking out loud here...… One thing (I think) I'm noticing with the Tarsacci and TID being unstable and not locking on to targets.....when I can see the screen (clear water or on wet sand) AND get a range of numbers (bouncing) with the coil centered over the target, those targets are typically trash (can slaw, corroded zinc penny, old bottlecap) OR irregularly shaped. Round targets (complete circles) seem to lock on so much better. There are exceptions of course due to depth and orientation in the sand. Got a gold grill the other day which did hit at 07 and was mostly a solid reading but there was a little bit of bounce to it and I suspect that was due to the shape of the grill....


Like I said this is just thinking out loud hoping others may either back this thought up OR set me straight....

Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2019 10:45AM
Pasttom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My 8000 is S/N 11 and I can usually run it on the
> highest sensitivity even in the water. My buddy L
> arry has #12 and he cannot. His unit seems at lea
> st 3 or maybe 4 numbers hotter than mine. Dimitar
> has offered to swap out one so they are the same a
> nd we declined. We end up at the same level for s
> table hunting, he just has a lower setting, we are
> fine with that. I think Larry likes that he can '
> over drive' his if he wants. We swapped coils to
> see if this was the difference and it was not- mad
> e no difference at all.

That’s very interesting. I would think Dimitar would like to get Larry’s back even for a short time, just to test and see why it is so much ‘Hotter’. I figured we all had the same innerds, build (and builder), so our settings would produce in the same operating results, but your tests with you and Larry prove we may be measuring a moving target with a rubber ruler. ;-)


One last thought. Speaking from one of the mostly silent 70% that doesn’t post all that often about operating parameters or results, sorry guys, I find that the majority of the time I don’t post because someone else has already posted what I was going to share, and I don’t need to spend everyone’s time reading a ‘ditto’ type message. Just my .02



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2019 11:02AM by Gary in Daytona.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2019 11:37AM
Gary- I was referring to the bouncing numbers, not locking on while in the water/ground.

I’ve talked w Dimitar since, not going to sending it back.

Gary in Daytona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aaron Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I’m experiencing the same exact thing w my 8000
> in
> > fresh water and dirt.
> >
> > I need send it back to Dimitar anyway, I’ll have
> h
> > im check it out.
>
>
> Aaron, playing catch up on this thread, but what “
> same thing” are you referring to? I’m #18 so an ea
> rlier build and just want to test and be aware of
> issues. TIA
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