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ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Posted by NASA-Tom 
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
December 31, 2019 06:19PM
I’ve got a set of Tony’s phones for mine and don’t have a issues w my plug or attaching the phones. You may want to contact Dimitar and ask him.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
December 31, 2019 08:10PM
I had Tony make mine so the cable went over the top of the shaft. Coming straight down was just in my way. Daniel .... he didn’t epoxy mine either. Are yours? Might send him a msg because if they aren’t they may be able to move wherever you want them
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
December 31, 2019 08:26PM
Dew, that sounds like what he did with this pair as well. He might have taken the footprint that you laid out.

Here is how mine is routed...it's the only way it will plug in.

20191231_151956 by Daniel Teague, on Flickr
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
December 31, 2019 11:41PM
Yes thats the way i wanted mine. The one that came with the machine was straight down, i was constantly pushing on it with my hand and couldnt get the cable in a position i wanted it. I believe thats a solderless connector If Tony didnt epoxy it you maybe able to adjust it. Mine doesnt have epoxy inside..... and my machine has that fitting under water a good bit so i know its shes good.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
December 31, 2019 11:48PM
That’s exactly how mine are.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 01, 2020 04:44AM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TallTom…… Sure. Just give me a holler (PM.... e-ma
> il)……. and we can go several different ways...…..
> to what ever fits your needs the best.


Email sent, Tom. Happy New Year!
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 06, 2020 05:40AM
I have again updated the "Tarsacci MDT 8000 Usage Notes" file that I extracted from the 55 pages of this message thread.

No significant changes to pages 1-15 or the top of page 16.

Beyond the middle of page 16 is new. It shows Aaron's notes on using the MDT 8000, then Tom's recommended beach settings to Magus, and dewcon's comments on ID numbers and his remarkable results of testing 147 gold rings/objects.

The same link gets you the new, updated file:

[www.gctreasurehunters.com]

I hope forum members find the file useful.

My MDT 8000 should arrive on Jan. 7, so I'll be studying this document myself.

--TallTom



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 11:54AM by TallTom.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 06, 2020 10:43AM
TallTom...... i for one really appreciate your cutting this thread down to provide the meat and potatoes for new people interested in the machine. Im just water hunting...... but i find other peoples use and settings for their conditions and location informative. Mine is pretty well a set and go now for my water hunting.....with some tweaks when conditions change. But im still playing with it in the wet and dry sand. Taking advantage of those other freqs and the salt setting .... on or off. Im still a little unclear how to use the black sand setting..... maybe because we have such mild mineralization that i use Toms pre-set GB. Im not really used disc or mixed mode except to check targets when i cant see the screen.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 06, 2020 03:06PM
Thanks for putting that together TallTom.

Last week I worked a 100yrd stretch of my old park, basically a big field. First w the TARSACCI using Dimitars settings for small foil, and I dug only a few large foil balls, no small foil pieces. All good repeatable signals were dug. No gold.

Using the EQX, I’m not sure how many small pieces of foil were dug, ALOT. However, I also found NO GOLD. Again ALL repeatable good targets were dug, if there was any small gold there the EQX would have found it.

I’m led to believe that Dimitars foil (rejecting small foil while accepting small gold ) setting does work.

This is why I tend to use the TARSACCI more in the park than I do the EQX...

Aaron



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 06:16PM by Aaron.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 07, 2020 10:34PM
Update: Dimitar & I have been contemplating 2 additional coils for the MDT platform. IF IF IF they ever come to fruition...… it will take a fairly lengthy amount of time.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., due to the fact that the electronics are designed specifically around the existing 11" x 8" DD coil. We've been working on this...… for (just over) a year. . . . . and we are still uncertain if we want this direction.
No further data.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 07, 2020 10:54PM
Question....I’m using Tony’s headphones (and 2 other kinds) for my TARSACCI and I always have the volume CRANKED all the way and still have a hard time hearing the small signals. I’m wondering how you guys hunting next to the ocean hear anything? I wish the over all volume would go alot higher...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2020 10:55PM by Aaron.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 07, 2020 11:07PM
U b deaf man lol. JK ....of course. Are you hunting in dis or Mixed? I just use them to check targets. In AM I don’t get weak signals per sa. I can size the target but most sound of the deep ones sounds the same. I’m always the guy with a question..... what size and foot print you considering.... and are we thinking beach or dirt?
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 07, 2020 11:07PM
I also would like to see other coils but only if they can be changed out, not unit specific, if that makes sense. Higher volume would also be on the priority list as I had a hard time hearing signals when it was windy out.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 07, 2020 11:10PM
I'm using Trond headphones and have no problem hearing everything in any mode with the volume set at 10. I've used them wired and wireless and the Tarsacci is plenty loud enough for me even on windy days or when the surf is big.

.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2020 11:23PM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 07, 2020 11:11PM
LOL Dew!
Since most of my hunting is in trashy dirt, I only used disc. I’ve noticed how loud the all metal is, however the disc just not loud enough...
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 01:03AM
Tom,, it seems to me a coil with the same parameters say a 12" round DD as the stock 8"x11" would pair just fine. Depth should remain the same but the added coverage could compete with the other popular machines on the salt beaches. It also would benifit the relic hunters by shrinking those fields.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 04:39AM
I think the 10.5 to 11 inch round coil size is a good standard coil size. The stock Tarsacci coil is small compared to what other machines are coming with as stock coils. When you are in a 60+ acre field trying to figure out where stuff is, those larger coils can keep you moving at a decent pace and cover a lot of ground. With coil sizes like the stock Tarsacci, it makes me move at a much slower pace as I'm trying to cover ground. I would for sure like to see a larger coil for it. If for nothing else it would allow folks to put it up against other machines with similar coil sizes to compare to. Right now, it is the only machine I have that does not have a round coil in at least the 10.5 to 11 inch size bracket.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 11:07AM
When you sweep right to left...... isnt 11" .... 11"? I guess im not seeing why we think we are loosing coverage? Most of the time im working the coil straight in front of me, not over extending it. The MDT coils is 11"..... most of ML coils are never the size stated. I guess the question is..... the intend of these new coils.... coverage, unmaking, depth, or improving the digital read out? I will say i much prefer the connector in the middle of the coil..... it balances the weight a bit better keeping the tip from going down which wears out those rubber washers. Speaking of those washers......i know Demitar found some a little thicker...... anyone have the part number and where we can get them?
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 12:54PM
I know it's probably all in my mind but I've never liked the look of the present Tarsacci coil. It just doesn't look like a high performance coil. The rest of the detector looks good and is high quality but that coil doesn't look like a coil that would get great depth even though I have proven many times that the detector is significantly deeper than any VLF machine on the beach. I think it has been well accepted in the industry that the rod attachment belongs on or near the center of the coil. Having the rod attachment too far back on the coil is kind of a nuisance. I prefer round coils. If there is some performance advantage to having an elliptical coil then I can live with that.

The only other visual improvement I would make on the Tarsacci would be to make the screen bigger and easier to read.

.



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2020 02:06PM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 02:46PM
Don't take this wrong...…….but: Dimitar & I could care less about 'looks' of a coil. ((((Don't get this confused with ergonomics)))).
What we care about is: "PERFORMANCE". We move full-speed-ahead if it's about performance. We move 'zero' if it's about looks.

Dew...…. you are correct. If you have a 11" DD coil...…. or ……. you have a 11" round coil.,.,.,.,.,.,., when you sweep side-to-side (which is: normal fashion)...…. you cover nearly the exact same amount of coverage/ground. The difference is:
1.) The DD coil will separate adjacent targets better.
2.) The round coil 'might' provide better depth. . . . . assuming it is not too large to begin with.

As you guys have seen/witnessed...….. the 11" DD coil on the EQX is the pinnacle coil for the EQX. Yes, the electronics are very specifically engineered for this coil. The unit does extremely well with any other coil; yet, the performance delta/difference is not as great as you would expect (because of yesteryears detector performance resultant ---and subsequent ensued mindset---). EXAMPLE: If you look at the CZ platform...…. the best 'all-arounder' coil for the CZ was the 8" coil (which is actually a 7-1/4" coil). BUT...…. if you switched to the 5" coil...… or the 10.5" coil...….. there was a very linear performance resultant (subsequently: satisfying your preconceived 'expectation')……………………………………….and...…………………………………….. you could really 'apply' the benefits into the real World with these different coil sizes. This sounds like a spanking/slam on the optional coil sizes for the EQX...…. but it is not. Rather...… it is a statement for the fact that the 11" EQX coil (and electronics) has managed (been engineered into) "capture" the attributes of the different coil sizes...… and has been (deliberately) engineered INTO the 11" coil/electronics package. Not perfectly.... and not 100%; yet, highly 'captured' (usable).
(((Seems like a defiance of physics & geophysics))). We have made the command decision to move-forward in this 'specialty coil' direction.
(((What hurts me is: You guys don't know...….. what you don't know. If only I could send you a 'standard' 11" round DD coil for the EQX...…… and THEN you could see/feel/witness standard/low performance. You would THEN see/feel/witness the engineering advancements that have been captured (and instilled) with coil advancement technology. You would then have genuine appreciation of that higher-tech 11" EQX coil that you have. With a 'standard coil'...…. you would also recapture yesteryears "performance-difference" between the different coil sizes.)))

Soooooooooooooo…………………… where am I going with all of this. The MDT coil is even MORE so.....a 'specialty coil'. So much so ….that...……,,,,,,,,,,, it has made it a real pain for us to make any other type of coil for the MDT. I still 'question' if it can even be done. (We're trying). BUT...….. just like the EQX...….. the MDT's coil allows for it to achieve unheard-of performance depths/gains...…. over any other 'standard' 11" coil. It has always been my dream...… to have a smaller coil: achieve the depths of a much larger coil; yet, retain greater adjacent target separation characteristics of a small coil. Be careful what you dream because: The dream has come to fruition (((and we are now realizing that we have only touched the proverbial tip-of-the-iceberg))). We are finding ways to bend the EM field (making it more focused) without upsetting the inductive balance equation.

Since we are hellbent on VLF IB (SMF or otherwise)………….. am I prolonging (delaying) the death of this (very) old technology? Postponing a paradigm-shift into a new realm technological advancement? "Pushing" VLF IB to performance levels that were never previously imagined? What if I am NOT 'helping'.... after-all!!!
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 03:09PM
If you ignore how the detector looks, you are ignoring potential sales. A good looking detector is more enjoyable to use. How many guys bought those pink Fishers because they didn't care how it looked. A lot of it is subconscious.

The Tarsacci coil has a slight toy quality look to it and the styling of the control box with its small screen makes the detector look cheap in a very subtle way.

It bothers me if a detector doesn't look right or has flaws in the design and as a result will have slightly less enthusiasm to use it. Suit yourself.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2020 03:52PM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 05:32PM
The coil may not look PRETTY.... but works well and you can get it easily into that deep hole. Coil covers are more durable now than others I’ve used. Shaft is built to a very high standard as are the locks. Thou it’s a little thicker than I’d liked. With is somewhere between the Nox and CTX.... so I’m moving water you displace a good bit of water making it a little more difficult to control the coil. And.... who don’t like that $6 5000 lith battery.... Fisher should take note. Box may not be perfect .... but I can’t see the thing a good bit anyway lol. Now ya want my complaints about the Nox and Xcal?
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 05:33PM
You guys don't know what you don't know. That's correct, I'm not a NASA engineer so I guess I'm stupid. What my stupid mind does not understand is if the MDT does not have eyes and the 12" coil has the same wire, same shielding, same.resistance etc. How does the MDT know that the coil is round, square, triangular or what size it is? And I would argue square inches of coverage Dew as you swing the coil in an arch not railroad track straight side to side. Also if 8x11 was the optimal size and shape, all coils would be 8 x 11. Availability of coil shells for Dimitar may be an issue but since I'm not an engineer I don't see why you can't trick the MDT ON the coil size. Sorry for my attitude but I have had special coils wound for me using the same parameters and only changed shape and size. No problem.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 05:38PM
I’d like to see a small coil for my style of relic/jewelry hunting using Dimitars foil settings in the trashy areas....
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 06:05PM
It appears that the MDT can only work with one coil at this time. Sounds.like.maybe forever. Had I known there would not be other coils available such as all other machines out there, I would have never spent $1500.00 on the MDT. Kinda tying my hands.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 08, 2020 06:19PM
I honestly prefer the standard coil on most of the machines. Thou I see the desire/needs for various coils. I’ve even argued that on the Nox with it various modes and the AQ as well since I believe there’s a place for a 9”. But these HUGE coils aren’t offering much depth.... loosing sensitivity to smaller gold... so they are more for those out of the water. But i can cover all the wet or dry sand I want to do in 7 hours. As a dirt hunter .... I might change my mind. The one time waster for me I believe is finding that small button to go from AM to disc when checking targets. However if a new/different coil gave me more depth or sensitivity to gold I’d buy it..... not so much one for coverage because they get heavier and don’t move well in the water.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 09, 2020 02:33AM
Badger and Carolina...…… the reason 'why' I said: "Don't take this wrong" …….. was to state how 'engineers brains' are wired. (((And NOT to 'attack' anyone's thoughts))). We (engineers/physicists) have very little (sometimes 'no') emotions whilst on the bench...… developing a product. We (nearly) never think about emotions or aesthetics; but/rather...…. end-resultant product performance. . . . . . tackling the principles/laws of physics. "BEAUTY" to an engineer is: Performance. "BEAUTY" to a end-user...… may be how pretty a coil looks. (((Engineers just don't see/think this way. We are a bit 'cold/insensitive' to emotions/looks...… when it comes to our little 'geek-World'!))).

Also...….. It is not the 11"x8" 'shape' of the MDT coil...…. that makes it such a permanent handcuff to the MDT. The coil could have been of nearly any size/shape. But/rather...… once the coil size/shape was selected.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., it is all the internal electronics that has tied 'marriaged' the coil-to-detector.
And now...……….. trying to design/develop a different coil to 'unique' electronic parameters...…. is challenging (to say the least).
BUT...….. the challenge has begun...….. and (yes)….. we are trying to develop another coil (or two) for the MDT platform. It may take us a while; yet, I'm wanting to inform you guys.

As far as size and shape...… many of your dreams may come true. (But better).
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 09, 2020 09:32AM
Oh, the mystical writings of a master engineer....clues for the end user IF I am not reading between lines wrong. Whilst developing that "dream" coil don't overlook/forget the center shaft connection point on the coil....
"(But better)" could save me thousands of dollars over the AQ purchase if the timing was right......but don't rush please, get it right.

Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 09, 2020 11:14AM
We may very well mount the (heavier-duty) coil ears …. more to the center of the coil. , . , . , . even though this brings the coil closer to the user's feet (shoes)…… and reduces the arc (which reduces/minimizes the amount of ground swept per swing).

Cliff...….. plan on spending thousands of dollars! I speculate the AQ will be released in about 7 weeks. It would be a miracle...…. if we can have another MDT (extremely specific/unique) coil developed (and mass-produced) in this short period of time.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
January 09, 2020 07:29PM
It does bring it closer..... but the balance of the coil on the lower shaft is worth that......AND let not forget ... theres still a LOT of shaft to extend. I also find coil control especially in the water is a little better not over extended.... it tends to float on you at the end of your swing... on most machines they will false. Not so much with the MDT.

Guess you are going to have to sell that Nox Cliff lol. It was an interesting hunt today. Nothing of value but we did get to test a few weak targets in the water with 12 and 9khz. Both were finding the targets..... and those targets were DEEP. Anyone remember when detectors seemed to loose depth the weaker the battery got......boy thats changed. Cliff was bobbing for apples out there on a few targets. I was amazed just how deep a pull tab or small piece of foil could get. We both seemed to have the TID down and could almost tell you ..... trash or treasure. We werent wrong very often on Iron and we discussed upscaling of trash. Started off ok with me getting a brass cross......but Cliff topped that ..... finding a 1900 V nickel. We spent some time discussing that..... thats an unusual coin for us.
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