ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Here is another video on the Tarsacci’s ability using the Salinity Balance to eliminate small foil and accept small gold. This video also demonstrates that both low conductors are in the same exact VDI range. [youtu.be]

Aaron

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]

Very good Magus!!

Quite impressive.I think it shows that the Tarsacci is using advanced technology.

We have moved forward in mineral and wet sand punch !!

We are seeing Pulse depth and punch with accurate ID.Hows this possible?

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Here is part 2 of our interview with the Tarsacci’s inventor, Dimitar Gargov...

[forums.tarsaccisales.com]

Enjoy!,

Aaron

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]

Aaron, Keith, Dimitar, thanks again for doing that interview. It was a good read and I can't wait for part 3.
I will say it is a pleasure every time I have the opportunity to talk to Dimitar on the phone.
I know his time is valuable yet the conversations always go longer than I expect them to last.

Cliff

I agree ..... a very good read. I wasnt a real fan of the ping pongs..... you can ask Tom lol. It also took some time on the wet sand to get used to surface rusted iron in AM. Partially because it was wrapping around much like a hot rock would. So i was using the notch in the upper digits around 28 to break it up. Once we saw what was working for Keith running the disc at its lowest setting in iron..... it really made it so much simpler to tell iron out in the water when reverse disc where you couldnt use the screen. Ive got two tones down really well...... IRON and HIGH tone. I can pass on either since im looking for gold. Recent drop hunting like we are doing right now we can move along pretty well with real confidence we arent missing much. The coil does exceptionally well of picking up near targets also especially in AM with less modulation. Sometimes moving to fast with another machine in disc those signals are just a false blip at best. Ive been told those nails on that nail board test were RUSTED nails Keith, how does other machines do on that same RUSTED nail test?

NOW...... about that large coil lol. Getting any info on how testing is going on the beach? Maybe a video...... hint hint.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2020 11:00AM by dewcon4414.

Well said Dew! It is so much better with -30 Disc so you hear the iron when switching to Disc mode from All Metal.....my only problem is hitting the wrong buttons when I can't see the controls. I can't count how many times I've hit the T/S button OR turned the darn machine off.....I've got dumb thumb syndrome.... :-)

Cliff

Another point to that Cliff is those small rusted chunks and thin iron pieces we get a lot of the time pushed up by the surf .... aren’t out in the water with any great contraction. Unlike the Xcal in disc we get a real good tone on most shallow iron and it’s easier to distinguish the deep too.

Dew Yes those are rusted nails.

Things to point out in the video.Thats not a dime or copper penny.I wanted to make the test really grab attention so I used a small token that only reads a 9 on Tarsacci.

The other thing is that's a large coil and its seeing 3 other nails at same time under coil in snapshot.

Another thing is thats all stock tone breaks.no tone moving etc.

So three things against the otucome yet its heard.

I can get machines with Variable tone break and say a zinc penny to do test with the right size coil..BUT no machine I know of can eek that target with that size coil and factory tone break on that small of a target.

The only machine I have to pass that test with that token is a IDX modified with 350 snooper.but it has to be the 350 snooper the 6 inch wont work, the iron starts to false too much.

The Tarsacci is able to do things with a stock large coil in iron that's against what we are used too.

Its not a test to say I can dig that but show its abilities.In real world sites its able to eek things out if you set it right and swing it right speed.

Yes the -30 disc is paramount to audio intelligence.just like on other units the more you cna hear the more you can decipher.especially iron wrap.

One reason I have found the Tarsacci is so nice to run it iron sites is it inherently falses on iron less than VLF's and the troublesome with iron with -30 disc is easily figured out.The bigger the iron the better the tarsacci ID's the tiny small pieces of ferrous wire and broken nails are the jumpy signals and the ability to hear the bounce make it SOOO much easier to decipher.



With the tarsacci running cleaner less noise in a iron site VS a VLF it allows you to hear things that maybe a VLF is also hearing but the noise of falsing iron make's it difficult to be intelligent enough to dig.

What a good vlf unmasker has to do to really unlock a site is have user defined tone break.And it works but it makes things noisy as your just on the edge of nail reject. and curved nails angled nails etc by the thousands become choppy signals.At some point the chop and the legit sound the same.

The Tarsacci is using a factory defined tone break well above a nail.Yet it still can see co locates like in video with a report .Even though the token is really low and small conductor and way above just a nail reject point.

The Tarsacci is seeing things for what they are in more of a ferrous/No ferrous makeup than a VLF reads as a conductive makeup.

It tells when something non ferrous is introduced to pure iron.

This in my mind is because its analyzing things in its NEW technology.Mixed Domain.

Its DNA is a relic machine that happens to work outstandingly well on wet salt as a bonus.

All the real magic of the machine is happening in the salt range of conductance and it overlaps in the iron range somewhat by desensitizing it even into small thin foil range.Things ground balance does not remove the Tarsacci with salt balance can.

It takes care of salt and hot rocks etc by what I feel is timing delay.Yet this also has ability to desensitize iron and small thin say paper backed foil.

You can tell the magic of less hindrance to the target shows up in this range Vs VLF..bad soils more neutralized salt neutralized iron desensitized.

The more you play with the salt balance inland for specific hunt sites the more a person will see not just mineral neutralizing occurs but desensitizing of iron can occur. This the beauty of time delay on P.I's.but its blended with phase shift disc too.the outcome is better unmasking at times.

That grey zone overlaps between ferrous and non ferrous is more black and white.

The corner has been turned for technology..Its here.It can seem quirky at times for sure but you just have to assimilate to it like say FBS behavior.((By the way remember FBS is still a VLF))

A pure non hybrid P.I. can never truly discriminate reliable as its limited to decay rates even multi sensing P.I.s can never be totally accurate.

To me the Tarsacci has used time domain like a P.I. and also phase shifting like a VLF and combined them to offer pulse punch but VLF disc.Best of both worlds at this point.

Tom PLEASE Correct me if I'm wrong on my assumptions.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Soooo what you are saying Keith is I need a bigger coil lol

Keith...…. you are correct in your assumptions. There is one comment that I shall add. The Tarsacci's original design intent...….. in concert with.... ALSO: the original design intent of 'Salt Balance'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., is very specific for the beach and wet-salt applications.
BUT...…... all with the STRONG possibility that...(a side-benefit may ensue): The Salt Balance may double as a tremendous aid for relic hunters (of whom are willing to experiment/play with Salt Balance in a unconventional/unorthodox mannor…………..and...………..in a environment where Salt Balance "should" --theoretically-- have zero application). Hence; where the paradox emanates.
IF, IF, IF...……. Salt Balance was NOT separated out....on the Tarsacci…...as a separate function...……………………....…...but/rather: homogenized in with Ground Balance --------- all of this (near magic)…… would not exist. There is a unforeseen/unsuspecting benefit ...to having Salt Balance AND Ground Balance.....as individual/separate adjustments...…(((compared to other detectors whereby: Salt Balance and Ground Balance are all lumped/melded/homogenized together; ….subsequently/hence, unable to 'individually' find the best tune for EACH setting...…. because of electronic lock-step marriage))).

Now...…. If only the Tarsacci had 15-Tones (incrementally increasing per conductivity) for the non-ferrous ID range...……,,,,,,, so I wouldn't have to keep looking at that darn digital VDI display...… to see what each detected target is. If you are water hunting..... and the control head is under water. . . . . . ID of targets is nearly impossible. You can not see the VDI display. One example: Zinc pennies, soda tabs and foil ….. all ID as a mid-tone. A few days ago.... I was in about 4 feet deep water (Atlantic Ocean)…… and spent about 15 minutes on the recovery of a good mid-tone. Turned out to be 15 minutes of futility.... in the recovery of a 16" deep darned Zinc Penny!!! The waves kept partially caving-in my hole!!!

Tom, that's what I needed .....the salt balance trick that I need to know for separation in iron laden areas, inland detecting. The MDT is an easy to "get to know" devise.

I'm haveing no problem learning the unit. The "tricks" are what I need help with because I don't get much time detecting and experimenting these days. Kind of like the "tricks" you helped generously with the f-75, back a few years....extremely helpful in pulling out targets masked.

I will look back for Keith's words of wisdom and discovery, also. Thanks guys!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2020 10:52PM by ozzie.

Don’t let anyone tell you the Tarsacci does NOT go deep on low conductors, in LOW mineralization. I’m finding tiny gold rings (less than 1 gram) in 6-10” sand. Check out my last lake hunt.... [forums.tarsaccisales.com]

Aaron

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]

Ozzie what I do in iron to get some better unmasking that works for me is what I call desensitizing (for lack of better word) the iron somewhat.

You cant Salt balance to iron not even a nail in a way like you balance to the soil.Iron being a solid metallic object.But you can desensitize it some.

Say your on 18Khz ground balanced.Set to disc -30 Sweep around and Find some iron in the site like buried nails.Small iron grunts.when you find the nails which should be easy if its a house site heavy concentration of them is alway's there.Turn salt balance on and raise coil up above the nails about a foot bob coil say from foot to 11 inches above the nails or whatever it takes to barley hear them on down stroke you want to find where they just start to come in weak.Just a slight wah sound.when it starts to wah pull back up .You want to find that spot above the nails where they are weak .Right where they ebgin to be seen on down stroke .start adjusting you salinity balance up a number and push down maybe just an inch but still having to keep maybe a foot above the nails..Go up a number then check with slight push.youll eventually find a spot where the nails start to get weaker response.find the spot on the dial that they are the weakest or even does not report at all on say the slight push towards them.This is the spot you want it at then stop adjusting.

You can move back out of the nails and do one more ground grab.then your ready to hunt.

You'll still hear the nails as grunts like all way's they are not gone but they are DESENSITIZED somewhat to the machine.Think 16 penny nails may look like a 12 penny nail to the machine analogy.Or square nails looks like a finishing nail now to it.Maybe not that great but to just give a picture to the minds eye !

Here's what works for me in iron on 18khz for square nails..may or may not work for you in the soil without some tweaking..18Khz,Sens 7,Theshold -2,blacksand off,Salinity about 43,Ground is usually around 800 area.

Sweep speed dependent for best results.think CZ speed.

Use -30 disc to help on troublesome flip flop iron.The machine is very good at ID'ing iron accurately.The tiny small pieces of cut nails may call you out but the -30 disc will let you know its flopping.Bigger iron nails on up are actually quieter than a VLF on falsing.

The sonar hit will also tell you its a good target VS a quick sharp ping/chirp of nail false.

Sonar hit has that good round feedback sound.

What's crazy is you'll get a get sonar hit no iron buzz but open hole and investigate and you'll see alot of nails in hole too with the keeper target.Where as say on your F75 a good hit may be also grunt hit grunt on same target.the Tarsacci isolates the good target and reports only that.Very very quick machine.If it gets a sense of a non ferrous piece it locks on it.

Also targets that are somewhat affected by the salinity balance ..That is very low conductors will seem to ID more by purity than by conductance. That is foil to the machine will be different than a good alloy like gold or lead or brass etc.Like say foil on a vlf reads 2 and a pistol ball reads 2.well on tarsacci the foil can be fluttery or wavy or disappear And foil reading 2 as the salt balance is neutralizing it but the Pistol ball that reads 2 will slap hard.

This is what happens to light iron some of makeup of it is desensitized and the small targets or low conductors jump out better than it can on a VLF where its reading a nail as strong .nail can overtake the pistol ball on VLF but on Tarsacci the nail looks slightly less to the circuit..SLIGHTLY but in terms of unlocking that's a big step.




Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Magus Great Video, Thanks!!

Perfect Keith! Makes sense, that's the tip I was asking for. .. I had an idea in that direction but needed the mechanics for it. I had about 3 hours with the unit and I noticed it hit real hard on iron. . .. the sound reminded me when you hit the bottom of a 5gallon plastic bucket with a hammer handle. I was thinking to myself it would be nice to volume that down a bit without lowering the higher tones.
If the nails lined up perfectly and the swing speed was right, I could get it to play Wipeout, lol.

I had the MDT at an old 1800's home site, house still there but in shambles. No one lives there except raccoons, groundhogs cats and fox....vultures on the roof ridge type of place. The grass is usually cut by a landscaper who rents the grounds for his equipment and truck storage, but, to my dismay the grass and weeds were 2' high, knee high corn in the fields. I couldn't hunt near the house like I wanted to.

One hole I dug, an old brass 2-1/2" x 3/8" clip came out at 9" deep and there was a small 1/2" heavy thick more modern nail or tac above it.. .. that was a moment of surprise for me in that few hours.

One thing that makes a journeyman out of an apprentice are the learning of "tricks of the trade", so to speak. You acquire them all by doing, watching, or learning from a journeyman//expert.

Keith, thanks for the "trick of the trade". . .

Now...…. If only the Tarsacci had 15-Tones (incrementally increasing per conductivity) for the non-ferrous ID range...……,,,,,,, so I wouldn't have to keep looking at that darn digital VDI display...… to see what each detected target is. If you are water hunting..... and the control head is under water. . . . . . ID of targets is nearly impossible. You can not see the VDI display. One example: Zinc pennies, soda tabs and foil ….. all ID as a mid-tone. A few days ago.... I was in about 4 feet deep water (Atlantic Ocean)…… and spent about 15 minutes on the recovery of a good mid-tone. Turned out to be 15 minutes of futility.... in the recovery of a 16" deep darned Zinc Penny!!! The waves kept partially caving-in my hole!!!

Tom wow you got out there to fight the surf ... not an easy task to maintain coil control in. What you just said was my initial thought. You may never find nothing in the water....... but you are going to find those deep pennies lol. Me and Cliff found that out the other day while hunting a beach he said was pretty picked over......but we still got a LOT of DEEP pennies. IF we had multi tones as you mentioned we might be tempted to pass on digging some of those gold targets. I feel pretty comfortable on iron..... those that give iffy signal and are deep..... id likely be digging them with any machine.....well if i heard um lol. Lot of trash thats also exceptionally deep tends to upscale....and a lot of times it appears above a quarter. There would be some valuables id pass .... but id be ok NOT digging the high tones with this machine in the water if time was short and i just wanted the gold. Shallow targets..... like pull tabs, extremely rusted bottle caps, some can slaw wouldnt be avoided even with multi tones........that said, add that to my list along with that LARGE coil lol. Just curious if you played with the 12 or 18khz in the water that deep?

Wow Keith...….. WOW! THANKS for taking the TIME...….. for this research...… blood effort...…...passion...…..and write-up. I USED to have all this time to do such; yet, my time is (nearly) all eaten-up now....by R&D. Right now...…. there's two companies that are absolutely "driven" with fortitude..... to technological performance advancements...….,,,,,,,,,, each, in their own differing highlight/skillset. This is keeping me away from the lengthy posts I USED to make! Keith...…. your skillset (in bad dirt) is REALLY a time-saver for many. To get folks immediately "well launched"...….. on a MUCH more (time-saving) learning bell-curve.... with the Tarsacci. . . . . (even though it primarily involves only one adjustment..... That being: Salt Balance). This one adjustment can be "slow-learning"..... especially if you do not have the time to regularly hunt. But..... with all of your help/input Keith...…. you are saving tons of 'learning-curve' time.....for many folks. Especially in my absence. Once again: I profusely thank you!

Steve...…. it will primarily be your subconscious …… that starts to 'feel' the audio of the Tarsacci (especially with Keith's recommendations/help with certain adjustments)………..whereby...….. you will experience more epiphanies. (More eye-openers to come).

Dew...….. I hunted in 4-deep water..... early in the morning.,.,.,.,.,.,., when the waves were minimum (about 3-foot waves). Since the sun is the creator of ALL weather...…. the waves are at minimum height...early, early in the morning. BUT...…. I was still being bounced around (and dunked!) by these waves.
AND...…. it is WITHIN these waves …… that precludes me from using 18Khz. When I get more comfortable (((being dunked)))...….. I may deviate from my 9Khz...… and start to test 12Khz..... IN the dunks! Makes me realize...……,,,,,,,,,, I HAVE been water hunting...…. for over 40 years (30 years with very serious/concerted intent)……… BUT...….. on in about 2-feet deep of water! Rarely do I venture out in 4-feet deep water. ((( I'm only 5' 10"...… @ 170lbs. )))
On this note..... with Zinc Pennies ID'ing as a mid-tone on the Tarsacci……,,,,,,,, this is exactly what prevents me from using it as a coin hunter....in inland/turf/dirt hunting applications. Indian Head Pennies ID (ever-so-slightly below a) Zinc penny. Silver Half Dimes ID in that Zinc Penny range. Nearly all of the early Wheat Pennies ID as a Zinc Penny. I do not want to miss these coins (because they all ID as a mid-tone on the Tarsacci)….. whilst high-tone coin hunting.
When I am in a relic hunting capacity with the Tarsacci……. this condition/problem......becomes a moot point. Hence; stunning relic hunter.

Tom-That is exactly what has kept me from using the Tarsacci at a park. Too many good coins ID in the mid-tone range. When I'm relic hunting, I dig everything so it's not and issue.

Keith-That is exactly what I do when I get to an iron infested relic site. I use the salt balance to take the edge off the iron but I do it differently. I will elaborate on my way a little later when I have time, The way I used salt balance to unlock my sites was a little more involved. Your way is much faster though.

I read the interview (part1/part2 and more to come) that Keith and Aaron had with Ditmar and it was quite enlightening.

I found it interesting that the MDT-8000 was originally designed for relic hunting not beach hunting, and for challenging dirt, which was, according to Ditmar, the main reason why he developed what I would call a dual ground balance system on his MDT.

I am curious how this transitioned from a purpose built relic machine to a beach machine?

I hope Aaron doesn't mind me sharing a couple of comments that Ditmar made that I found particularly interesting. I would encourage you to read the entire interview on Aaron's site, it's really well worth the read and very informative into the insights around the design of the detector.


Ditmar stated:

Keith - I know it ain’t a pulse, but acts like a pulse...A LOT!

Dimitar - Ah,,,the main driver for this technology was the ability to ignore simultaneously mineralized ground and...salt -alkaline mediums, fertilized ground or nonmagnetic hot rocks like coke, natural graphite .. .

Keith - I think when you put mineral in the mix, the target sounds better. Better than the target lying on the top of the soil. For example, sometimes when you take the target out of the ground, it might be a buck shot or a pistol ball, sounds better in the soil. Once you get it out,,,I can still hear it, but it don’t sound as good as it did in the ground...

Dimitar - Yes! Because especially in your area, your conditions, the ground is mineralized, and this mineralized ground actually helps you enhance the signal, this is why.

Dimitar - But again, there are limitations, you can’t expect this to happen always! Another thing that is true and you’ll discover; let’s say if you have pieces from a very heavily rusted iron. For example: peace of old tin roof or peace of iron seating for a long time on the salty beach. Now this is how I discovered, I had a customer on the beach, and he had a different brand metal detector. We started detecting, at one point he said: “I have a very large target”, the sound of the target was loud, and very strong. So, I passed the Tarsacci coil over his target and I could hardly hear it, and told him: “No, this is nothing.” So, we began debating, and I said: “Let’s dig it!” And we dug it, and it turned out to be a big piece of iron, which was very heavily rusted. The iron was starting to disintegrate, the sand around it looked like red clay from the rust. So, what the Salinity Balance does is helps you to see through this mediums and detect good targets. If it’s solid iron, none of the machines will see the target behind it.

Dimitar - When you design a detector, let’s say you have a group of targets, doesn’t matter new or old targets, to the detector it’s a target. And if the thin small hammered coins are desirable targets, you design the detector to be able to detect these coins. And since there are plenty of these types of targets, this is why you have 18 and 12 kHz, and you can find these targets at greater depth. Now, since we’re talking about the Salinity Balance, in England, coke is a big problem. And a lot people may say, “yes, I understand what coke is, but I never dig a piece of coke”, which is not true. And this is a big problem, you see it on the forums, everyone talks about it. And sure, some of the detectors you can mask the coke, I’m not talking about anything else, you’ll not see, you’ll not detect the coke. But...once you have a target behind it...

Tom- glad to be of help.!!!

Ozzie-Thanks for the gratitude!!My reward in detecting is helping others plain and simple and others helping me!I like seeing people happy with their equipment and I like being happy with my equipment.Confidence goes along ways with a new unit.Aaron has some nice videos up on his dedicated Tarsacci forum that may get you up to speed too or anyone else.[forums.tarsaccisales.com] like you already saw something on your limited hunt site..It gets better especially when you get it dialed in and settled into its language.A side note that you probably have already noticed.The Tarsacci does not feel or look like a mass produced unit.More like a custom unit straight from factory.Like a exotic car from Ferrari.

Andrew-Sounds like you've got it!!!And yes I'm sure there's different way's and your is maybe better!!I do cut corners alot or try not to make things overly cumbersome for me.I've not a fan of overly complicated programming and even finicky tune units.The Tarsacci is neither of those.Glad your making discoveries!!

I have something else I want to share but want to be sure first.I'm about 90% percent there.It will show hopefully that the tarsacci is not strictly working of conductance as much as its working of purity and size/mass as a I.D. system. and it will show its time domain processing is REAL.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Thanks Guys
This is the type of explaining on the Tarsacci I have been looking/waiting for..
joe

Want to see what a sheet OF Reynolds aluminum foil does to the Tarsacci?

Sheet of foil with quarter under it.

[www.youtube.com]

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Want to see what a sheet OF Reynolds aluminum foi
> l does to the Tarsacci?
>
> Sheet of foil with quarter under it.
>
> [www.youtube.com]
> e=youtu.be
>
> Keith


wow how is that possible i am sure Tom said in a post that any metal directly above a target even as small as a staple will mask the target underneath (unless the other target is much deeper say 10 inches)

Cant think in VLF terms.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Dag on it all! Now I got to figure out how to sell some detectors so I can get me one. I can't resist it anymore

WoW-amatic!!!!

What do you expect for “see-thru” technology?

Thanks Keith!

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]

Longtime readers of this thread may recall that I posted a summary of tips from this thread.

That last summary ran up to January 5, 2020.

I have now created Part 2 of that summary, which runs from January 7, 2020, to July 2, 2020.

Here it is (in PDF format):
[www.gctreasurehunters.com]

I hope it's useful for some of you who don't want to read the whole thread. I took the liberty of editing some of Keith's posts. He gave me permission to clean up punctuation on one of them, but I edited others, too. Let me know if I misinterpreted anything, Keith!

--TallTom

Update:
Here's the link for Part 1 of the Summary.
[www.gctreasurehunters.com]
.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2020 06:36PM by TallTom.

Keith...…. another video example of: NOT a VLF! Good capture.

sanjuro/ghound: Technology has: 'Evolved'. (((Time-Domain sure looks to defy basic laws/principles of physics))).

Yes that's cool Keith, it's defo doing something magic.
Is the salinity setting the key?