ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

SteveG ..... yes; it is VERY satisfying to dig coins (or other good items) that are fatally masked to other detectors ((and/or ...deeper than other detectors can detect))........because...... it is awesome to open up old sites; yet, it is the trash targets that must be audibly mastered...... in order to REALLY appreciate the good finds. At the end of the day....... I DO come home with more 'keeper' Tarsacci targets..... than other detectors; yet, with MORE trash digging. After a few days......... humans FORGET how much TRASH was ""dug""; yet, will clearly remember how MANY GOOD FINDS were found. The reality is: We MUST take into consideration of the RATIO of good-finds : trash-finds . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . in order to PROPERLY rate if the unit is worthy... or not. But....... ALSO......... in all fairness.......... my EARS audible trash ID is getting better. , . , . , . , . , . , . , . and I am MUCH more clearly ID'ing trash targets to a better rate/ratio. Even though I'm still digging the iffy targets........for proof-pudding.
((( Truthfully....... I have been putting MUCH more time into other proto's....... keeping me out/away from the Tarsacci. At the moment..... I have 'Tarsacci' time! Learning-curve recommenced. )))

SteveG.......one more thing. Chris is really on to something ...in regards to different headphones. A few days ago.... I used another Tarsacci hunters unit that was equipped with different headphones. . . . . . . . . . and the audio difference was night-and-day.

Gary...... yes. You are allowed more body-rotation ability.... when you have a smaller, elliptical DD coil installed. I need to try. This may yet open up another window-of-opportunity. Yet, the 12" coil seems to be performing some magic......even though it presents more ground-feedback. And.......... the truth-of-the-matter is..... the trash density at this particular (common) site is so high........that.......the deepest I've been able to see/dig..... is about 7". And 7" to either coil ...is not even close to the units depth capabilities.

Rivers Rat....... Most folks who 'caught on' to the language of the Tarsacci........,,,,,,,, own 2 of them; yet, not necessarily for having one equipped with smaller coil.....and the other being equipped with the large coil. The primary reason/justification is to have 'comparable backup' unit....... should one go down.

NASA-Tom,

Thanks for the very detailed reply. As for the headphones, I talked at length to Chris, and afterward I made a few hardware purchases, to move into the same setup that he uses, so I think this is going to be a major improvement.

I am very glad you got a break from testing other prototypes, giving you some time to dive back into the Tarsacci in a dirt-hunting application. While you obviously have a ton of experience with it on the beach, we are sort of pursuing the same goal right now, i.e. trying to master the MDT for hunting turf for old coins. Fortuitous, as I'm enjoying hearing about your experiences...

Steve

I may have formidable experience with the Tarsacci on the beach.......... I am gaining turf/dirt experience ....fast.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, one more note.
>
> I find the machine to be ergonomically uncomfortab
> le. I am tall (6' 2" tall) and as such, with my l
> ong arms, I run the Equinox arm cuff in the rear-m
> ost cuff hole. This positioning allows the cuff t
> o sit near my elbow, which thus allows me more "le
> verage" in terms of lifting the coil and keeping i
> t floating (and of course, counterweighting also h
> elps). On the MDT however, with 12" coil, it is q
> uite nose-heavy, moreso even than the nose-heavy E
> quinox. And that nose-heaviness is accentuated by
> the "shortness" of the "bottom" portion of the upp
> er shaft (the part that extends from the handle to
> the arm cuff). Given the "shortness" I am describ
> ing, the MDT arm cuff sits about "mid forearm," fo
> r me, as opposed to farther back near my elbow. W
> hen compared to the Equinox, there is about 3" les
> s distance from handle to cuff on the MDT. The re
> sult is that leverage cannot be utilized as effect
> ively, when working to keep the coil floating, and
> for me that results in the MDT being a notably mor
> e fatiguing machine to swing, particularly for my
> wrist.
>
> I had pondered for a while on a way to design a co
> unterweight for use with the Tarsacci, to at least
> partly remedy this. However, with the battery cap
> at the butt end of the shaft (which includes the r
> ubber O-rings which are integral to the waterproof
> ing of the unit), there's not a good way to permit
> a screw-on counterweight. So, that makes it more
> difficult to come up with a way to attach counterw
> eighting. Further, lengthening that "bottom" port
> ion of the upper shaft would also help the ergonom
> ics, but given that the battery is integrated into
> that part of the shaft, and all of the associated
> things that entails, it's not a shaft that I can "
> redesign" as there are direct "warranty" implicati
> ons there. So, there doesn't appear to be an easy
> solution to the ergonomic issues.
>
> Steve

Exactly why I no longer own one and won't anymore.
I'm tall, 6'4" long arms and arm cuff hits mid forearm. Angle of grip I don't like.. hated the tones. It needs a complete redo imo .

Yes. Lower shaft was too short for me....... so I bought one of Steve's custom-made middle & lower shafts.

Gotta love SteveG custom shafts. Guys he will basiclly make them way you want it length wise.

For those who dont like the tones or may find them difficult to distinguish ...... i was just sent a video, looks like Aaron is posting videos again. This one is of the tones.... seems hes working on moding them. Not certain how many tones there are now..... did i see 5? They clearly were easier to distinguish big help for the dirt guys for sure.

[www.youtube.com]

I'm a mixed mode guy. Haven't been digging many bottle caps with mixed and hearing the iron grunt as coil comes off the target.

Thanks for the kind words, dewcon! And thanks for the video; I'll check it out. Sounds very interesting...

Steve

Dew --

I just watched the video. YES PLEASE!! THAT'S what I'm talking about.

How can I get that "v.2 audio" on my Tarsacci?

From what I can tell, there are still only three tones, BUT -- that mid tone is lowered down in pitch/frequency ALOT, so that it's not such a "shrill" tone, and provides much more separation between a low tone and a high tone.

Is this an "update" that can be acquired somehow?

Steve

Yes, I like the improved separation of tones. For me the mid tone melded into the high tone, this modification makes it sound more distinct.

Chris

Chris -- I ABSOLUTELY agree. MUCH more distinct, and it would be much less piercing, as well, at high volume. The high tones would really stand out then, as opposed to the "melding together" of the mid tone and the high tone, as you noted, and which I TOTALLY agree with.

Who can help us to accomplish this? NASA-Tom, any ideas? Dimitar? How did Aaron do that?

Steve

I watched the video. This is the first time I have have ever seen/heard of this. I would need to touch base with Dimitar to find out.

NASA-Tom,

Got it, thanks! So, none of your "wizardry" was involved there, then...

Steve

No...........not on that one.

On the video, Aaron is using he 12" coil at first, then the stock 11" x 8" why is that?

Its likely he has two machines when testing and it was a simple way to do it. Tom, i just got an Email asking what i knew about a NEW 12" Oval coil for the machine as well..... can that be confirmed by you dealers? Looks like hes been busy. It will be interesting to see other changes he might be making.... like lengthening the upper shaft for better balance and cuff movement. Ive seen a couple of comments about the hardware...... not many complaints from those that sold um about DEPTH. Now if we could get a bit of a tweak on TID for the really deep targets...... wow. Im wondering for those of us who have a MDT if its possible to just buy the UPPER shaft and box with any improvements at a reasonable price?

I've been using Mixed mode for the past 6-8 months almost exclusively and with my hearing and headphones I use, it is more like a two tone machine. There definitely is not a good enough separation in the mid to high tone...now in Aaron's video I can hear the difference....really do need more info on that....mod....

Would be nice if that is something Dimitar can do to the machines prior to shipping. Since the machine can't be updated online, I would assume you would need to open up the machine to get to the hardware/board which isn't something the average person would want to try due to potential water proof concerns on reassembly.

Cliff

No. There is no 12" oval/elliptical coil in-works.

Tarsacci can have software updates; yet, it's difficult.........and must be performed by Dimitar. It is not an external hookup.
A tone-mod could be done.
Better ID at depth would be very difficult....... due to Operating System.
Dimitar (and crew) constantly working on stuff.
It may be possible to purchase a upper shaft with control pod/electronics. ((( I'll discuss this with Dimitar. )))

I got a look at the coil mentioned .... its the 12". On update couldnt he use a coil pin to do that much like the Nox or are all those in use? I dont necessarily mean on line but at his shop? The way i run mine... HOT flipping back to disc to do an ID would be hard to improve.

I'm not sure of the pinout of the coil....... or is every one of the pins already allocated.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its likely he has two machines when testing and it
> was a simple way to do it. Tom, i just got an Em
> ail asking what i knew about a NEW 12" Oval coil f
> or the machine as well..... can that be confirmed
> by you dealers? Looks like hes been busy. It wil
> l be interesting to see other changes he might be
> making.... like lengthening the upper shaft for b
> etter balance and cuff movement. Ive seen a coup
> le of comments about the hardware...... not many c
> omplaints from those that sold um about DEPTH. No
> w if we could get a bit of a tweak on TID for the
> really deep targets...... wow. Im wondering for
> those of us who have a MDT if its possible to just
> buy the UPPER shaft and box with any improvements
> at a reasonable price?

I don't know anything about a 12" elliptical coil, but can't imagine there would be a 12" elliptical made, given the 11x9 elliptical and 12" round that already exist, UNLESS the coil is not JUST a change in size, but has some other "secret sauce" included therein, that Dimitar may have been working on.

Speaking of Dimitar, I talked to him recently about whether he -- or perhaps me, working with him -- might be able to make some changes to the shaft ergonomically, to improve balance/feel/comfort/swingability. I talked about perhaps changing the upper shaft, to lengthen it, and several other ideas (but won't bore anyone with the details). In any case, he did not seem interested in "going there," on any of these ideas. I got the impression he doesn't see any ergonomic issues with the unit, so not worth his time. I tried to push a bit, and said perhaps I could work with his designs, and his producers, and do some of the "leg work" myself to make some ergonomic fixes, but it didn't go very far. I asked him if others have mentioned these issues to him (balance, short upper shaft length, etc.) and he said "maybe a few." So, I kind of let it go, as I didn't want to press too hard. I think he needs to hear from others, not me, as he may simply see me as being "biased," due to being a shaft manufacturer.

Steve

Bottom line is: Dimitar is STUBBORN!!!
BUT........in his 'stubbornness'......... he DID create the Tarsacci!!!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bottom line is: Dimitar is STUBBORN!!!
> BUT........in his 'stubbornness'......... he DID c
> reate the Tarsacci!!!

Point well taken!

Steve

Its been mentioned. It would require a total redesign..... hopefully if he comes out with a redesign it will incorporate tones, longer length, handle angle adjustment .... because my hand really pushes on the box and the headphone connector is in the wrong direction. I had Tony change mine to have the headphone cable go over the shaft. I also like your lower shaft Steve..... it just displaces far less water and where theres a lot of current it can get tuff out there. Ive noticed the Nox guys are going to a storke.... thin lower. Several of us has asked him if our machines could have the tones adjusted..... the reply i got was simply..... no. We have had a banner year so far for new machines so that may slow his sales. But ive not seen one id rather use yet based on all the videos on depth and TID.

Dew,

So glad you are pleased with the shaft!

I don't want to let this "tones" thing just be dropped. There has to be a way...

Steve

Obviously there is a way ..... they were changed. But how difficult is it to do. We were talking yesterday about the AM single tone. It would sure make it easier since the signal is being process to give a high/low tone and reduce the amount of time we push those buttons for reverse disc. The newer machines use their coil pins for updates. might be something to look at. But .... i think the machine is what it is and we wont see changes until the next model. Even Dimitar said .... its not perfect. But none are we all like changes to suit us. I think most would like those new tones.

Dimitar confirmed there is zero feasible way to do these tones on the existing platform.......even with him having the unit in his hand. Aaron had a "one-off" chip (build)........and was given explicit instructions to NOT let this "one off" data get out to the public. The existing tones are 'burned in' to the MP chip.

and that is the rest of the story.....

NASA-Tom,

THANK YOU for following up, and getting us the final word.

Unfortunately, that puts it to bed...

Steve

I don't mean to be the 'killjoy' ..... bearer-of-bad-news; yet, as Dimitar would say: It is... what it is.