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ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Posted by NASA-Tom 
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 09:30AM
Quote Dew: "Am I wrong, or is that a lot of battery..."

Based on Tom's description, it's what is usually called a '26650' lithium cell:
[www.orbtronic.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 09:44AM
wow waiting for video now =) . Huge paradigm shift in 2019 lots of new machine with new concepts, prepare to eat chinese dehydrated noodle for a long time.

Will it be possible to buy it for overseas customers ?
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 10:38AM
[www.dsmt.com]

I know my Iphone makes that statement Tom .... but this chart seems to say differently..... or is it just because that seems to be the highest ratting allowing the manufacture a lot of room to determine depth? So...... how deep is the manufacturer saying it can go in the water?

WHAT...... no small gold??? I figured youd be pushing for that buddy.

30 hours run time...... lot of run time on 1 battery.... is it running at that same DCV 3.7?

So how smooth is it running in the water......can you actually listen for weak signals? Are the sounds more like the Xcal in disc ...... or PP?

When you said inches deeper than a Sov...... IN the water or air testing? I noticed you didnt mention the Nox?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2018 10:42AM by dewcon4414.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 12:24PM
A few more data-points to share:

* Another one of the quirks is: Coil sweep speed. This unit is more sensitive to horizontal velocity. Too slow.....and you lose depth. Too fast.....and you lose depth. And this is one of the reasons 'why' this unit is targeting 'seasoned' detectorists. On a subconscious level...….a seasoned detectorist will automatically/subconsciously 'find the sweet-spot' without any effort. This usually happens on the first (fairly deep) target. You will find that a medium/medium-slow sweep-speed is pinnacle. Then your brain will be subconsciously auto-calibrated to this speed. No effort required.
Remember; this unit is 'different'.
Medium sweep-speed is a very 'vague' term. Differently interpretive. But...… once again; I have zero concern for seasoned detectorists.

* (audio) Mixed Mode. This mode is iron content and non-ferrous content melded/merged together...….. audibly...….. in stereo.

* Mfr claims "not waterproof". (I beg to differ).

* A separate "Black Sand" selectable Mode.

* Yes. Battery is Li-ion 26650 (Pimento.... you easily passed my test with A+! ,,, I tested......and wanted to know...… if the public can 'easily' figure things out. Next test: Can seasoned detectorists figure things out...… with little effort).

* I hope to see the owners manual pdf uploaded/posted. Before or after product rollout. More targeting: "before".

* ((( I have to be careful with this one: ))). Selectable Freq's: 6.4-Khz, 9-Khz, 12-Khz and 18-Khz. But. Be careful. Do not assume VLF. Do not assume Single Freq. ,,, It's a bit different.

I think I can share this now. I have head-to-head tested this unit in the wet-salt. Compared to Excal/CZ/Sov…(first-hand)…… this unit is deeper on rings & coins...… including Nickels. No...… it is not a tiny gold jewelry hunter. Yes.,.,.,.,.,., we're working on that; but/yet..... that may be 1 or 2 years down the pike.

* Lower carbon fiber shaft can be extended to a fairly good length...… for tall folks.

* Yes...… 'should' be able to ship internationally.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 01:16PM
Hmmm.... that sweep-speed sensitivity makes me think there is a time delay involved in the signal(s) processing , and the user has to match that delay.
I wonder if it under-performs if you sweep it forwards/backwards, like a vacuum-cleaner ( and like Indy Stiles, apparently ....)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2018 01:18PM by Pimento.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 03:00PM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone ever looked up IP-68 spec's? It's kind of interesting. 1.5 Meters deep ….for 30-Minutes.
> That's all!

IP68 isn't a hard spec, it just means "submersible waterproof" and the manufacturer defines "to what."
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 03:39PM
" this unit is deeper on rings & coins."

If this unit is deeper than CZ's and Excals in the wet salt sand on coins and rings, can reasonably discriminate out iron, and is waterproof to at least 10 feet,then that's good enough for me.

I will find the small gold in the dry sand and tot lots with other units. Small gold hunting is an art in itself.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 03:41PM
I think i know what you mean Tom on sweep speed....... i used to tell people when using the Explorer if you wanted to hit deep targets you PUSHED the coil along rather than swing it...... kind of a feel as you started hearing targets.

Id sure like to READ the manual.

Two schools of thought on water detecting as many of the threads have suggested.......... those who want to ring hunt and those who want a shot at the smaller stuff missed. AquaStar depth...... impressive for you guys looking for rings.

Not waterproof..... but IP68.... disclaimer..... maybe safe than sorry?

The AquaSound was kind of a unique machine as well single freq 14K that Tindell of Nautilus did. GB for sand..... then GB for the salt water. Impressive depth too, but black sand killed the depth. Threshold ..... with boost...... 24V i believe..... and headphones left your ears ringing. Oooo and all for only $3000ish.

Is there a difference....... swinging North to South vs East to West? Normally you get layers of black sand.

Do all those freqs work on the wet sand? If so.... some are affected by EMI and others by minerals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2018 03:57PM by dewcon4414.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 03:54PM
In Culpeper the dirt has never been the problem. It's the iron bedrock under it.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 04:16PM
Sound interesting ... but can it differentiate a pull-tab from a nickel? A thin ring from foil? Can it ignore the high chirps formed on the sharp edges of a bed of randomly orientated elongated iron? Does it respond to variable salt conditions (ocean waves)? Would it ID a bottle cap as ferrous or non-ferrous or both? What are the unit's main weaknesses, every detector has some?

John
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 04:35PM
The last time this surfaced.

[metaldetectingforum.com]

I could be wrong, but I think maybe the designer is Dimitar Gargov. The same guy who did the Coinstrike, Goldstrike, Edge and Excel for the old Fisher company.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 06:44PM
Will it be upgradable through the internet?
Also is it multi tone?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2018 07:01PM by GreenMeanie.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 07, 2018 01:39AM
* Right now...… there's no intentions to make the unit 'upgradable'. (((This helps with patents & Intellectual Property protection))).

* John...… No. It can not defy physics. ((( I really wish it could tell small gold jewelry apart from foil ! )))

* Steel bottle caps give a fairly easily distinguishable audio variance. Both low & high tone..... due to steel covered by a nickel or zinc coating on the outer surface. (Which is where electrons eddy-currents flow).

* Yes. This unit can be run on any of the available Freq's. I have been (nearly) exclusively using 18-Khz..... which is the most 'chatty' ; yet, talkative. The lower the Freq..... the more stable the unit. And the lower Freq's are much deeper on coins.

* If running the unit on the near-instability/hairy-edge (Highest Freq & max Sens)…… the unit does indeed get 'chatty' when the coil hits the wet-salt 'splash'..... due to salt volume "CHANGE". Any of the other Freq's do not express this phenomenon. ((( I like to run detectors --somewhat beyond-- highest stable performance levels. ))) This unit DOES allow you to 'overdrive' the unit...… should you run into that exceptionally infrequent premium condition(s).

* Unit is not immune to EMI; yet, is well above-average in its mitigation.

* Unit does have adjustable Threshold..... which is most beneficial in All Metal Mode. Yes..... All Metal Mode does retain VDI ID numbers.

* Unit also has Tracking. ((( I have never liked tracking......as it 'can' possibly track-out threshold-depth targets. ))) In bad dirt..... it has value-added attributes.

* Detector Stand is insufficiently wide; yet, for a reason.....I shall withhold rationale …. for now.

* Sens goes from 1-9. ((( So far...… this appears to be plenty of span & resolution. )))
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 07, 2018 04:42AM
Sounds good to me!! You've perked my interest for sure.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 07, 2018 05:58AM
Sure would love to see a photo of it and what you've been finding with it Tom.

Heck at least you can talk about this one, it was a bummer on the EQ, all that testing and knowledge learned, yet unable to share a word.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 07, 2018 12:13PM
Looking for a beach hunter. Keeping an eye on this and manta.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 12:49PM by Edct.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 07, 2018 02:33PM
Exciting time for the beach hunters. Being one of them I'm more interested in the depth. The problem here is the depth of the sand with the re-nourishment they are doing and have done in Horry County. Still could help after a couple of winter storms. Could be wishful thinking
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 07, 2018 09:06PM
* There are NO hidden menu's. Everything is out in the open..... on the faceplate & LCD screen.

* The last 20% of fringe depth presents more ID 'bounce'. (((Keep in mind the depths this might be.)))

* Audio (sort of) sounds more 'sonar' based. The audio is a little different.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 08, 2018 09:55AM
But....... its not going to be warrantied as waterproof? Can i assume the pigtail ISNT water proof? If so is waterproof phones needed?

Once in the water...... is it as chatty as the Nox?

Does it have modulation of targets where you can tell the size easily?

Approximate depth on a dime in wet sand?

In order to compensate in an EMI area ..... you have to switch freq?

This is kind of like kids guessing whats in the box under the Christmas tree.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 08, 2018 10:39PM
Dew...…. I have not run into EMI as of yet. . . . . . but...….. have primarily hunted the wet-salt beaches. I did test the unit at a few inland sites...… and zero EMI issues encountered. I'm certain it can encounter EMI; yet, appears to be above-average at handling it. I'm also certain that changing Freq's will mitigate (or rid) EMI.

So far...… I have been testing only a Nickel (as far as coins)…… on the beach. In the wet-salt..... I am experiencing (at least) 14" on a U.S. Nickel. And these are real numbers...… in the real world. I am recovering them at these depths also.

There is some (mild) modulation..... but of a little bit of a different audio. A bit difficult to explain.

I can't imagine the headphone pigtail ….being waterproof. This is one of the logistics items that is preempting release.

I have encountered zero 'chattiness' IN the water...… but I was using/testing 6-Khz, 9-Khz and sometimes 12-Khz. I know at 18-Khz and max/near-max Sens..... the unit is very chatty in the splash.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 08, 2018 11:01PM
Has this unit been tested relic hunting?Id love to know any info if it has.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 12:03AM
M12 connector Tom..... people owing the CTX and some who converted the Xcal cap would use their phones and its waterproof.

Nice depth on a nickel.....and if they are dirty nickels...they aren’t easy to ID.

I’d like to see a pic too.

This is interesting in that we are talking single freq here on/in the salt water.....and its got killer depth. Only the AquaSound which runs at14khz does that well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2018 12:22AM by dewcon4414.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 01:52AM
No text

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2018 02:10AM by lytle78.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 02:13AM
in line to buy! thank you Tom for all you do.

XP Deus
Minelab Etrac
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett Carrot
22 silvers, 2 silver rings, 1 Gold Ring -YTD 2018


Some of my random digs: [www.youtube.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 12:50PM
Jesse - The unit 'has' been tested in fairly bad dirt.... in a relic hunting capacity. But..... not by me. So.... I'm reluctant to report. Where I live (Florida)….presents extremely low mineralization. There are other units that I would rather use..... in my exceptionally low (silica) dirt; yet, this unit is quite deep. If I'm in carpets of nails...… I'll grab the Impact, F75 or Deus. (GMP ….in my case). If I'm in highly trashy areas; I'll grab the F75, Impact or Equinox (w/6"-coil). I have one particular area.... here in Florida.... that presents 4-bar bad dirt.....that I am very anxious to test this new unit. But...… right now...… the grass there …. is 13" tall. I cannot get the coil within 6"-7" of the ground. This 'variable' therefore 'fails' my prerequisites. It's a 5-hour round-trip from me.
On this same note...… food-for-thought: This unit will air-test a U.S. Nickel at 12.7". In my Florida (almost zero mineral) dirt..... It'll detect a Nickel to 12.9". IN the wet-salt..... it'll detect a Nickel to (at least) 14". I've never seen/witnessed something like this before. Not to this order-of-magnitude.

I'm still trying to get use to the audio; yet, not doing bad at all. So far..... the true All Metal Mode remains 'best choice' in the wet-salt. ID Mode comes in at #2 choice.

It is difficult to call this unit a 'single freq' unit...… especially when it can work so well in the wet-salt.....and acquire a Nickel (the only coin-of-interest for me to test.... in the wet-salt environment) …… knowing how 'true' single Freq units perform (or not perform) in the wet-salt.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 03:29PM
Well we know Tom's picks for using a metal detector...I feel better I have two that he uses.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 04:09PM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
So far..... the true All Metal M
> ode remains 'best choice' in the wet-salt. ID Mode
> comes in at #2 choice.


So Tom, you are hunting in the all metal mode and get a target that appears deep, is it easy/worth it to switch to the ID mode? OR, since it hit on the fringe of the all metal mode is it to far out of reach for the ID mode. OR, can the operator eventually (learn to) determine the target by the tone response (length) in all metal mode.

Guess I'm saying is it similar to using an Excal in PP then switching to Disc to determine the target which in some cases you have to take a scoop or so off the top to get within range of the Disc ID.

Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 05:32PM
Cliff...….. so far...….. in many cases...…… the VDI ID system has still spit out numbers...…...albeit; widely scattered ID's (due to extreme/fringe depth)...…. but enough data to make a dig/no-dig determination..... especially when coupled with audio intel nuances.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 06:09PM
Interesting thread.
Been a while since I first posted on here. I think it's a fortunate time to Bob back on this forum.
So hello all smiling smiley
I'll bee thinking of this new machine while I'm beeping on the beach in the UK tomorrow mornings low tide.

In the stables...
Whites TDI pulse,
Nokta fors relic,
XP deus,
Fisher goldbug,
Minelab equinox 800,
Land & wet beach detecting...TTbeep smiling smiley
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 09, 2018 06:20PM
Unlike the Xcal...... it does give an ID digit even in AM it seems. The main issue we had with the aquasound which ran in 14K at 24 dcv i believe was black sand. lost depth pretty fast.....BUT get it in some fluffy sand it could pull some crazy deep targets. YOu had to GB the sand ....... the GB other knobs for the salt water..... and she ran pretty smooth..... shocking to see a single freq run out there and do well. Now we have one ...... that the GB does it all and can run in several freqs. The Aqua also had those huge heavy coils.... out of the water you have to man up. Did i see you post it has a BOOST? Hows it do near other detectors?
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