Goes to show you ....if it hits that deep and we ain’t finding it....we got a lot of sand. I’m also certain 12 kHz with bkl sand on in the wet is deeper. About the same I found Cliff that 10 to 11” in the wet sand starts to make the Nox iffy on that size of ring. I think it supports the impression that the 15” coil isn’t as deep as expecte. ML did well on the 6 but could do some improvements by working on a 13” coil.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Goes to show you ....if it hits that deep and we a
> in’t finding it....we got a lot of sand. I’m als
> o certain 12 kHz with bkl sand on in the wet is de
> eper. About the same I found Cliff that 10 to 11”
> in the wet sand starts to make the Nox iffy on tha
> t size of ring. I think it supports the impressio
> n that the 15” coil isn’t as deep as expecte. ML
> did well on the 6 but could do some improvements b
> y working on a 13” coil.


It likely isn’t the coil size affecting Nox here. It’s the salt ( conductive properties). And Tarsacci is better here with its salt balance feature. Amazing to see see folks comparing a Tarsacci 9x11” dd coil to the biggest Equinox coil. That should tell folks some thing. And NASA Tom told us early on here, Tarsacci is doing something in salt sand/water better than any other VLF he has used when transitioning performance from non salt environment to salt environment. Increased Depth!!!! You do this same Transition with Equinox its depth decreases. EqX deeper on inert sand but the tortoise Tarsacci catches up and surpasses in salt. Yeah try EQX with 9x11” coil and wonder how deep on nickel in wet salt sand??

To refresh folks memory here.
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jesse - The unit 'has' been tested in fairly bad d
> irt.... in a relic hunting capacity. But..... not
> by me. So.... I'm reluctant to report. Where I liv
> e (Florida)….presents extremely low mineralization
> . There are other units that I would rather use...
> .. in my exceptionally low (silica) dirt; yet, thi
> s unit is quite deep. If I'm in carpets of nails..
> .… I'll grab the Impact, F75 or Deus. (GMP ….in my
> case). If I'm in highly trashy areas; I'll grab th
> e F75, Impact or Equinox (w/6"-coil). I have one p
> articular area.... here in Florida.... that presen
> ts 4-bar bad dirt.....that I am very anxious to te
> st this new unit. But...… right now...… the grass
> there …. is 13" tall. I cannot get the coil within
> 6"-7" of the ground. This 'variable' therefore 'fa
> ils' my prerequisites. It's a 5-hour round-trip fr
> om me.
> On this same note...… food-for-thought: This unit
> will air-test a U.S. Nickel at 12.7". In my Florid
> a (almost zero mineral) dirt..... It'll detect a N
> ickel to 12.9". IN the wet-salt..... it'll detect
> a Nickel to (at least) 14". I've never seen/witnes
> sed something like this before. Not to this order-
> of-magnitude.
>
> I'm still trying to get use to the audio; yet, not
> doing bad at all. So far..... the true All Metal M
> ode remains 'best choice' in the wet-salt. ID Mode
> comes in at #2 choice.
>
> It is difficult to call this unit a 'single freq'
> unit...… especially when it can work so well in th
> e wet-salt.....and acquire a Nickel (the only coin
> -of-interest for me to test.... in the wet-salt en
> vironment) …… knowing how 'true' single Freq units
> perform (or not perform) in the wet-salt.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2019 03:57PM by tnsharpshooter.

Don’t think anyone could argue there is a real depth transition from dry to wet to in the salt water on most water machines. Got news for you....it changes from ankle to waist to neck deep too on how it can affect a machine.

I'm finally starting to get the feel of the new Tarsacci. Today was the first day I actually felt like it was getting good depth in the hot rocks at the beach. I started off using the Equinox and wasn't digging much, so I switched to the MDT and felt it was getting more depth. I'm getting more confidence in the MDT the more I use it.

Mix mode, 9 kHz, Threshold 0, Disc 0, sense 8, Salinity 27, GB 556.

I'm finding it easier to manually ground balance out the hot rocks so it's nice and quiet. First I find a hot rock or group of them. I auto GB over the rocks and then fine tune the setting. That number will be specific to that locality so when I go back I can just set it and forget it. Salinity balance seems fine at 27.

Small rusty pieces of lobster trap will sometimes ring up as non-ferrous, but if you turn 90 degrees to the target it will give solid low tones and negative numbers confirming it as iron. Most good non-ferrous targets will give high tones and positive numbers from all directions. These rock patches we've been detecting have been heavily hunted by lots of people over the last month or so. You really have to work to find anything and digging in the rocks is not easy.

After three hours of hunting I got two lead weights, six dimes, one of them 1952 and a cool headless lead soldier. That may not sound like much but at this site it tells me that the Tarsacci is working pretty good.

Pic here. [www.nhmetaldetectingforum.com]

.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2019 11:23AM by Badger in NH.

Cliff...…. that's a STUNNING/STUPENDOUS performance report. If you were to hold the two coils …. back-to-back to each other..... (((the 15" EQX coil … vs... the 11"x8" Tarsacci coil)))….. the Tarsacci coil would appear to be tiny. And...………… for ANY detector to detect a gold ring at those depths...…… really makes a statement about our current technological advancement(s). It is (still) an eye-opener …. that the Tarsacci could detect the gold ring (weak..... but reliable/constantly repeatable)……. and the much larger 15" EQX coil …. could not detect the ring. Also...… you have more performance to be gained on the Tarsacci…… by simply bumping the Sens up: one number (to '8')…….. and you would still have formidable/reasonable wet-salt beach stability. Thanks for testing this in your conditions.

Badger; I'm glad that you were able to balance-out (rid) the hot rocks...… and find masked targets. You are using the Salt Balance..... and the Ground Balance..... to YOUR advantage.

Currently...…. I have (approx.) a 2-foot sandbar that has moved in.... and is covering most of my detectable beaches.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Also...… you have more performance to
> be gained on the Tarsacci…… by simply bumping the
> Sens up: one number (to '8')…….. and you would sti
> ll have formidable/reasonable wet-salt beach stabi
> lity. Thanks for testing this in your conditions.
>


Tom, that is the part of this test that I really liked, (knowing) I was running somewhat mild hunting settings and didn't have to make adjustments to hear the test ring. in addition to raising the sensitivity up to 8, I also had the volume down from what I can run yet still be comfortable with larger shallow targets blaring in my ears.

Cliff

I think I've got the settings down now. The MDT was working great in the hot rocks this morning.

14k ring (9.0 grams) and four silver coins. Washington quarter, Merc and two Roosevelts. One junk ring and seven lead weights.

Pic here - [www.nhmetaldetectingforum.com]

The sand is starting to move. I can't wait to go back there tomorrow.

.

Congrats.

Nice ones Badger.

Hi There from Down Under in Oz,

I would like to get a comparison on the MDT 8000 & the Vallon . For beach work the Vallon has 2 modes normal and mineral. Our beaches here are alive with Basalt which can only be successfully detected in mineral , Once the basalt is balanced out it is saved for when ever you want to return to the beach. It also can be used inland but no discrimination , Just hoping someone has both either now or down the track so i could get a good comparison on depth .

Regards Pinpointa Down Under.

pinpointa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi There from Down Under in Oz,
>
> I would like to get a comparison on the MDT 8000
> & the Vallon . For beach work the Vallon has 2 m
> odes normal and mineral. Our beaches here are aliv
> e with Basalt which can only be successfully detec
> ted in mineral , Once the basalt is balanced out i
> t is saved for when ever you want to return to the
> beach. It also can be used inland but no discrimin
> ation , Just hoping someone has both either now or
> down the track so i could get a good comparison on
> depth .
>

I own both detectors. The VMH3CS is deeper here in Virginia. My beach is nothing like yours. I do have heavy mineralized black sand. Not much help for you though.

Carolina



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2019 02:20PM by Carolina.

Thanks Thomas.

Sounds good to me i will hang on a bit longer with the Vallon.

Regards Pinpointa>

Isn't the Vallon a Pulse Induction unit (made in Poland)? (((Hence; no discrimination)))?

We have been shipping MDT's internationally; yet, none to 'down-under' yet.

Badger...…. I'm REALLY glad that you have put that Ground Balance circuitry to your advantage...…. and are doing very well!

The beaches in my neck of the woods except the 90% that have been replenished were slammed by the Blood moon pulling the drop off to a flat no mans land. This last Snow Moon in Feb. didn't help. Winds and tides just didn't jive. This past Sunday we got some sand shifting finally. I felt lucky to be the only one there as often as I encounter other pirates. Upper part of beach was covered with shells inches deep and the natives were everywhere looking. Unfortunately the low tide was late and I only had 2 hrs before dark. I could of hunted this area earlier but this change was really unexpected.
Lots of crusty coins with the nickels deep and hit hard. Noticing some audio differences with a tab and a nickel. More of a smooth tone transition on nickels in mixed. While all are costume I am noticing I'm getting a large number of smaller open loop items. Also I am cleaning up some of the older style tabs and some have worn down or have corrosion on them. Next swing could have been the one but not to be this round. I posted them to show the trash as well. Even with Black Sand off I am digging micro pieces. When located with my carrot its still hard to see with the sand in my hand. Have been swinging boat anchors for the last 10 yrs, and swinging the Tarsacci lets me come home and not have to eat a hand full of Advil to kill the shoulder pain. A pleasure to swing and makes for easier coil control. SB 24, 18K, 559GB, -1 trh. 0 disc. 7 sens. JR

How about those big sinker....... those babies are sooooo deep. I see an 18 and go ole no. I know what you are saying about low tide and winds not jiving. Straight into the beach wind with a really low tide....... you are just as well off waiting until high tide. Nice collection of what one hopes to find looking for gold........ some crusty coins, pull tabs, and sinkers.

Badger & JR ….. really good reports! By giving a photo of all the finds........ really paints a picture of the 'conductivity spectrum' of the unit. This helps in many regards.

So far...….. (my skill-set level) on the wet-salt slope...…… I am up to a Sens of '9'...… and I vacillate between Thresh of -1 …. to 0...… depending on the variances of the water-table below the surface of the wet sand. If the (not visible) water table is fairly consistent (minimal movement & intensity)….. and the surface of the sand is smooth...…. I can (more easier) get away with a Thresh of '0'. All of this is whilst in 18Khz. Performance is eye-opening. I certainly cannot get away with these settings in the 'splash'...… nor can I use them IN the water …….. especially if the current is strong. If my intent is to be constantly IN the water..... and about chest-deep...…. I'll use 9Khz, Sens 9..... and..... once again; I'll vacillate between Thresh of -1 and 0...….. (depending on current strength/conditions.... and smooth sand). This (small for the beach) coil is presenting stunning depth results.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So far...….. (my skill-set level) on the wet-salt
> slope...…… I am up to a Sens of '9'...… and I vaci
> llate between Thresh of -1 …. to 0...… depending o
> n the variances of the water-table below the surfa
> ce of the wet sand. If the (not visible) water tab
> le is fairly consistent (minimal movement & intens
> ity)….. and the surface of the sand is smooth...….
> I can (more easier) get away with a Thresh of '0'.
> All of this is whilst in 18Khz. Performance is eye
> -opening. I certainly cannot get away with these
> settings in the 'splash'...… nor can I use them IN
> the water …….. especially if the current is strong
> . If my intent is to be constantly IN the water..
> ... and about chest-deep...…. I'll use 9Khz, Sens
> 9..... and..... once again; I'll vacillate between
> Thresh of -1 and 0...….. (depending on current str
> ength/conditions.... and smooth sand). This (smal
> l for the beach) coil is presenting stunning depth
> results.

So Tom, while you are pushing the limits with the Tarsacci, do you have a preference of modes you hunt in? I've been (for the most part) been bouncing between AM and Mixed modes however today I decided to test the Disc Mode while checking some targets with Mixed Mode. Very interesting machine for sure. Although I haven't killed the gold with it yet, I am gaining a good knowledge of the small nuances of the MDT. I'm beginning to call "most" bottlecaps now too.

Cliff

Cliff...…… I'm still heavily biased with the All Metal mode. "Sometimes" I'll switch over to Disc mode...… just to check out a pinpointed target...….. especially if I suspect a steel bottlecap. With a true All Metal mode...…. THIS is what allows for higher Sens settings...….. as ……… any aberrations in the sand (to include 'bumping' the coil on the sand)……. are MUCH easier to discern ..... via the 'expected' weak (and modulated) audio response.....that the All Metal Mode presents. In any of the ID modes...... this 'weak audio' response.... is a "full on" target audio response. . . . . making it MUCH harder to discern between falsing....... or a real target; subsequently, causing the detectorist to fruitlessly lock-up his brakes TOO TOO often. All Metal Mode is much more discernable.

Anyone used to hunting with the Xcal would appreciate how this machines runs in True AM. Unlike the Xcal thou it can run nearly quit in the water in AM using 9khz. Cliff have you tried using say 18khz in the DRY sand...... with the salt setting at 0? There is so little difference between a false and a weak target running in disc........ its just so much easy to tell the difference in AM...... but i guess im used to hunting like that with the Xcal. I didnt care much for the falsing in disc with the Xcal either. I realize why you are trying to learn mixed or disc. It can get a little time consuming switching back and forth if you cant see the screen as well as raising the screen to hit the small mode button. I have notice when you find an iron target ....... setting the coil ON the target.... switching to disc...... then just slightly wiggling the coil gives you much slower tones than a non-ferr target will....like ping-pong...... opposed to ping pong ping pong pin pong. Any time i can see the screen...... i watch those digits on a found targets......deep or small iron seem always give a neg...... then if you get a positive its in the high digits ..... from wrap around. I check those that might throw a lower consistent digit. Anyone did any testing on non-ferr targets deep to see IF they change to iron or when? The machine seems to be very good... thou jumpy.... IDing fringe targets for what they are.

When relic hunting I've noticed that ID jumping from negative numbers up to +26 and up is usually deep or small iron that is wrapping. If the ID is jumping from negative to +25 or lower I've been digging it and it's usually a good target. In my soil the Tarsacci tends to up average the ID, my guess is that it does this to keep minerals in the ground from consuming the target and ID'ing it as iron. I'm guessing in heavily mineralized soil like Culpeper running in AM and watching the numbers is going to be the trick to using it there.

The VALLON is a German PI machine marketed to the armed forces for mine detection. 2010 and older models are sold as used as is. They are very heavy but also very responsive to gold.

Carolina

For those of you wishing to directly connect your headphones....... Cliff sent me this link for the MALE solderless M9 4 pin connectors at a pretty good price. Tom has already shown the pin out off the box. [www.amazon.com]

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those of you wishing to directly connect your
> headphones....... Cliff sent me this link for the
> MALE solderless M9 4 pin connectors at a pretty go
> od price. Tom has already shown the pin out off
> the box. [www.amazon.com]
> l-Field-wireable-Connector-Terminal/dp/B07DL1ZKKS/
> ref=gp_aw_ybh_a_8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=PD7T
> VJM39TH8PZABD8T3


M8 Dew.....

It was an iPhone error Cliff.....she’s always changing my words making more guesses at spelling than I do lol.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Badger & JR ….. really good reports! By giving a p
> hoto of all the finds........ really paints a pict
> ure of the 'conductivity spectrum' of the unit. Th
> is helps in many regards.
>
> So far...….. (my skill-set level) on the wet-salt
> slope...…… I am up to a Sens of '9'...… and I vaci
> llate between Thresh of -1 …. to 0...… depending o
> n the variances of the water-table below the surfa
> ce of the wet sand. If the (not visible) water tab
> le is fairly consistent (minimal movement & intens
> ity)….. and the surface of the sand is smooth...….
> I can (more easier) get away with a Thresh of '0'.
> All of this is whilst in 18Khz. Performance is eye
> -opening. I certainly cannot get away with these
> settings in the 'splash'...… nor can I use them IN
> the water …….. especially if the current is strong
> . If my intent is to be constantly IN the water..
> ... and about chest-deep...…. I'll use 9Khz, Sens
> 9..... and..... once again; I'll vacillate between
> Thresh of -1 and 0...….. (depending on current str
> ength/conditions.... and smooth sand). This (smal
> l for the beach) coil is presenting stunning depth
> results.

That has been my experience up here in north of you Tom. Can’t (don’t want to) use discriminate mode because at the sensitivities and threshold and I (we) run, there’s just a bit too many ticks and blips to go back and investigate. I’d much rather run in all metal and double check any questionable targets from another angle. Also, getting in the surf has resulted in me having to drop to at least 9 kHz as well, it’s just too noisy otherwise. Guess similarities in our results are not surprising since we live fairly close. And yes. ...... the beach is pretty sanded in up here too. Not sure even several days of a nor’easter would result in a large number of targets of value, but it would be better than it is now. Frustrating, since I feel like I have the detector dialed in now, but the targets aren’t there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2019 01:14PM by Gary in Daytona.

I have yet to find a use for Disc mode. I can run Sense at 9 most of the time. Usually with 9 or 18 kHz. It stays well balanced and quiet. I'm using Mix mode in the hot rock patches just because there is some iron and occasional rock signals to deal with. We're sanded in as well. Not one decent storm all winter. If I ever get to use it on the wet sand, I'm sure All Metal will be the way to go.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2019 04:50PM by Badger in NH.

Ok, let me ask a general question about the salt balance.....I spent most of my 30 odd hours with the machine in 9 KHz running with a salt balance of 27 - 32ish depending on beach and whether wet or water hunting, today I decided to try 18KHz and found it noisy with my normal settings (30 at the time) on the wet sand. I finally decided to adjust the salt balance (expecting to raise the number) but found raising it made it worse.....ended up finding a SB of 25 was quiet and stable.

Do you find a lower SB number with the higher frequencies?

Cliff

My salt balance is pretty stable at 27 in all frequencies so I've just been leaving it there most of the time.

Dimitar told me, when salt balancing on the wet sand to dig a hole, let it fill with water and salt balance over that. I've been doing that and usually end up at 27. I should probably be checking it more often just to be sure.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2019 06:48AM by Badger in NH.

Cliff.... ive been using 27 in 18 and 12Khz....... but 9khz is about 30...... thats in the wet sand. Now.... move on out to waist deep......things start to separate more...... 18khz 27, 12khz 30ish..... and 9khz 33. What i did notice with 18khz......... chest deep Cliff, was i could turn OFF black sand (which seemed to be a key to a lot of the extra noise) and turn UP the salt setting on to 40ish......... it got pretty quiet. Now..... the question is what does that do to small gold targets? Is it worth missing those 9khz running in 33 salt balance might hit? Thats my question...... what do we LOOSE with higher salt balance digits? I seem to loose a couple of inches using 9khz in the wet sand over 12 or 18khz...... but in the water if you have to reduce sensitivity/threshold for those two khz.... why run them and listen to noise? That really slows you down especially if you cant see the screen at times. Black sand ON out of the water does seem to give you about a 1/2" depth....... but hit the surf edge in the oatmeal and 12 or 9khz again seem to be the best option to run. Has anyone tried/tested 12 and 18khz in the dry sand with salt balance at 0(basicly off)? Once you start learning this machine you realize......... wow what would other salt water machines do if they had the ability to adjust the salt setting? It would be interesting to see what a multi freq might gain. 9khz is hard to beat in the water.....you can run AM and run HOT......and it still runs almost silent.

Dew, I haven't turned Black Sand on yet. So much yet to learn about this machine....yet.... what I'm finding so far with adjustments seems to jive with what you have found.

Cliff