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ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Posted by NASA-Tom 
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 27, 2020 03:25PM
Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find the nails strips with coin under it sound
> the best at down the barrel angle.
>
> My FBS unit will hit the coin also but its negativ
> e number..
>
> Did you slide your tone break on CTX?
>
> Keith

I don't know what the tone break is on the CTX. I have an open window where I hear everything.

My explorer xs will hit the quarter under the nail strip even better. Nail strip slant to the right it hits hard with cursor going to upper right corner, when nails slant to left cursor goes to the upper left.

Yes I too believe the MDT has time domain processing like a pi detector. The sucking sound you hear sounds like my headhunter pi which is a Eric foster design

Denny
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 27, 2020 05:50PM
Denny so your saying its sounds good on XS with cursor on upper right and upper left?That's two ends of the spectrum.Are you using conductive mode?

Yes its has the sonar echo Pulse type hits!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 27, 2020 05:57PM
Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fantastic report Keith!
> Really appreciate all the time your putting in out
> there in the field! Imagine all the other good stu
> ff you would have found by now if ya listen to me
> last summer!

Very True Aaron.

Yes you saw its attributes a year ago!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 12:10AM
Looks like dig fella near another person using Tarsacci in this video.
Garret ATX in Video too.
Location appears to be Culpepper Va.
Maybe someone can confirm identity of gent running Tarsacci.

[m.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2020 12:20AM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 12:52AM
It definitely looks like a Tarsacci, and that's an old video from Apr 12, 2017, a year and a half before the On The Horizon thread was started.

Someone here must know who that guy is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2020 01:04AM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 12:53AM
Not sure who that is in the beginning w the Tarsacci, however that’s Dimitar with Bill, (13:30) WITHOUT the ATX.....

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 01:10AM
That explains it. Dimitar was there letting people try it out. At the time, still in the prototype stage.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 01:24AM
Dimitar, his Wife...… and the Tarsacci.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 08:42AM
Culpeper, route..... "666"...........no wonder the soil is red and so hard to detect through.

Screaming Bill Ladd shows his mug but again. Thanks for that so early in the morning,..... near woke the wife.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 10:01AM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dimitar, his Wife...… and the Tarsacci.


His wife must be the blonde woman at 5:16.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2020 11:13AM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 12:03PM
For those wanting to hunt in thick carpets of nails with bad/mineralized dirt...….. with the Tarsacci…… START with the following settings (so as to enhance your learning-curve MUCH more rapidly):

Sens = 5
Thresh = -2
Disc = 0
Notch = 30
Perform Fast Grab Ground Balance in target-free dirt
Mode = Any; yet, this is dictated by your age/hearing-acuity
Salt Balance = Dictated by your specific mineralization type & level

Keith...… correct me if I'm askew!

Word-to-the-wise: If you start with too high of a Sens setting...… and too low of a Thresh setting.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., your fatigue-rate will be climbing much faster than your learning-curve. You will ascertain = guaranteed failure.

Let's start a Tarsacci unmasking campaign! (((You'll see 'why'))).
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 12:18PM
NASA Tom stated=Let's start a Tarsacci unmasking campaign! (((You'll see 'why')))

I think that's a grand idea.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 01:28PM
Agreed Tom.

One tip I’d like to impart to those new to the TARSACCI, that’s REALLY important is.....SWEEP SPEED.
I’ve been discussing this a lot with Keith and Teresa (aka Coilpower), Proper and consistent sweep speed is EXTREMELY important w the Tarsacci. Your sweep should not be really fast like a T2, nor should it really slow. As Keith would say, “it needs to be like your swinging a CZ, about a 5ft, 2 second arc. If you swing to slow you can make a bad target sound good. Swing too fast, you can make a good target sound good.”
And also some great advice from Teresa.... “Yes, sweep speed MATTERS! And as I recall, I also said to do the "soveriegn wiggle"......over your target. I have said on forum if you swing too fast you will miss or catch edge, and too slow is not ideal either....although in relic hunting there are occassions when to go slow pays off. I relic hunt at times in -28 because I LIKE iron sounds.....to a degree. All site dependant. .....AND everyones BAD for not reading manual re SALT balance on dirt!!!!”

After you get your time in on the machine it all makes perfect sense. If your coming off a FBS machine, you’ll have to get out of the “MineLab wiggle” mindset, it doesn’t work with the Tarsacci, at least not with me. You start slowing your speed down, your going to start falsing on iron. Let the Tarsacci do its job and work it’s magic, keep the swing speed consistent!

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 03:46PM
Definitive data captured yesterday:

Tarsacci. Wet slope. Right at saltwater's edge.

14" Nickel. Weak but 100% repeatable signal = Sens 8, Thresh -1, Disc -30, No Notch, 9Khz, Black Sand 'off', Ground Balance 600, Salt Balance 30

15" Nickel. Weak but 100% repeatable signal = Sens 9, Thresh 0, Disc -30, No Notch, 9Khz, Black Sand 'off', Ground Balance 600, Salt Balance 30
BUT, BUT, BUT. There is a caveat. In order to run these maxed-out settings..... you MUST be a (one Decade......or greater) seasoned detectorist. Vertical coil velocity must be ZERO. Horizontal sweep velocity: STEADY. If you are a very seasoned wet-salt detectorist...…. this performance (with these settings) are indeed ascertainable......and without much difficulty.

(((For Dew: There is very negligible loss of depth/performance..... when saltwater was flowing (with some speed) over either of these Nickels. --Unlike VLF's--))).
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 03:52PM
Teresa...….. What "percentage" would you say...… that you are running Black Sand 'on'? Does this function suit ANY purpose(s) for your mega-magnetic black dirt?
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 03:56PM
Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Denny so your saying its sounds good on XS with cu
> rsor on upper right and upper left?That's two ends
> of the spectrum.Are you using conductive mode?
>
> Yes its has the sonar echo Pulse type hits!
>
> Keith

No,
I'm using ferrous mode, smart screen not digital.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 06:28PM
Thanks Tom. I normally hunt in AM .... I like the louder less modulated tone. In the water I can still hit disc to check a target. I run notch at 28. Tend to knock out or break up most iron. We have a bunch of sand currently so a lot of floaters just amazing how deep targets are. I think we may have gotten $1 worth of change. We did test the Xcal on a quarter I found ... even in PP mode nada.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 28, 2020 08:00PM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those wanting to hunt in thick carpets of nail
> s with bad/mineralized dirt...….. with the Tarsacc
> i…… START with the following settings (so as to en
> hance your learning-curve MUCH more rapidly):
>
> Sens = 5
> Thresh = -2
> Disc = 0
> Notch = 30
> Perform Fast Grab Ground Balance in target-free di
> rt
> Mode = Any; yet, this is dictated by your age/hear
> ing-acuity
> Salt Balance = Dictated by your specific mineraliz
> ation type & level
>
> Keith...… correct me if I'm askew!
>
> Word-to-the-wise: If you start with too high of a
> Sens setting...… and too low of a Thresh setting.,
> .,.,.,.,.,.,., your fatigue-rate will be climbing
> much faster than your learning-curve. You will asc
> ertain = guaranteed failure.
>
> Let's start a Tarsacci unmasking campaign! (((You'
> ll see 'why'))).


Tom yes..!!

Dont overdrive it like a VLF Mindset can get away with.

Ive found Tarsacci is not a VLF and wont run like a VLF in terms of what I/We have become to accept as our normal expected gauging of machines.You have to break the mindset of what you know and re-adjust.Its not hard just stay open to change.This is 21st century tech upon us.Its going to go places.The possibilities are huge for the Technology.Its here right now and start adapting to it.I was confused and taken back a bit at first till I cleared my head and evaluated it.I first thought man I'm disconnected from the soil with this unit.The audio is wrong.Aaron told me it does things and Im not catching it maybe its my soil.I could tell it could do things in my soil but I couldn't connect the dots.I thought wheres my X or wheres My T2.Then I saw it in iron doing things.at first it was just surface small stuff I'd been missing with a VLF. Then the more I hit the iron the deeper I was digging stuff and easily clearly.

I was doing heavy comparing against VLFs and still am on in ground targets and started noticing the MDT is actually way quieter than a VLF in iron.It falses like any unit but way less.Then the audio kicked in.and you got to have headphones on.The iron falses may seem like you want to dig it but its a forced high tone no roundness.Good sounds round and sweet.

Here's what I do

With the ground balance and salt setting.find a spot where there's just a space to get the coil down on the soil.but still have some small iron intrusion into the coil halo.On salt you may find that it will never balance completely silent but it will get weaker response find weakest spot and that's the sweet spot for it.

Dont overdrive it and alway's use Salt balance ON.

I stay 6 or 7 sens and negative 3 or 2 Threshold.

19Khz its most reactive in iron to non ferrous.

Disc mode negative 30 Disc.No notching.if you find at first Iron is falsing for you you can notch Plus 30.Aftyer awhile though as you settle in you'll not notch.And also after awhile youll want that disc on Negative 30 instead of zero to hear the rejected iron and it will be more identifiable as the tone will flip flop from low to high instead of just high only fooling you by giving half the signal and then your trying to isolate it and make it a good tone.Yes the MDT can make iron sound very good the more you start to analyze it.You start to slow sweep speed down and it will get to where you want to dig it.You have to use a moderate sweep speed with tarsacci not T2 speed not Minelab speed.you have to be about like a CZ this is the number one thing that will quieten the iron down.Go to slow and youll make nothing into something.even when your analyzing a target dont start to creep on it keep it a good steady full pass across it.It likes the full matrix not the exact center of say piece of iron.it likes to get the whole snapshot to deduce good from bad.

Do a test start creeping around iron slowly and see how many high hits you chase that isnt anything but nails.Speed up moderately and see how much quieter it becomes and good stuff jump's out even deep.Its the most sweep speed dependent unit I've encountered.Too fast it looses depth to slow it falses.you'll learn the correct speed.Very P.I. like very speed dependent for success.

I'm very comfortable with the unit now and still have more to learn.But I have my confidence in the unit up and I would use it anywhere to hunt now and know what to expect and interpret it.

I discovered the sweep speed and didnt know I did till later at night rethinking the day's hunt.I was thinking why do i have so little iron falses that drove me nuts in the beginning.I hadnt really Changed nothing extremely settings wise.Then it hit me and I checked it next day to be sure.sure I knew the tones better and the tone characteristics but it was different behavior.then it was my thing I tell everyone who asks a good detector tip and I had not thought of it being consumed with other things about the unit.Sweep Speed.I had corrected the units sweep speed and did it unknowingly.As we all do over time.It becomes our 6th sense to adapt it.But on the Tarsacci its critical to get it right especially while your figuring it out in iron.It will take you along way's faster in deciphering sounds if your dialed in to begin with.One less thing to trip you up.

Well get this got longer than I expected sorry!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 30, 2020 12:44PM
I feel I've been speaking weak …..by not putting enough emphasis on: running lower Sens settings in bad dirt. If you are trying to unmask non-ferrous targets in carpets of nails...… in bad dirt: Run a lower Sens setting of (say) '6'...… and a Thresh of -2 or -3. I also recommend a Disc setting of '0' at first.
AFTER YOU GET USE TO THE SOUNDS WITH THESE SETTINGS...….. then you can drop Disc all the way back down to the bottom (wide-open) setting of -30. THEN hearing the iron (after your initial learning-curve)………. will become more audibly intelligent.

Said differently: If you start with high-powered settings...… the learning-curve is TOO steep...………… and you will (most probably) never 'catch-on' to the entire premise of the design. TOO high of power settings = Impossible learning-curve.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 30, 2020 02:40PM
NASA Tom, Questions;

After becoming near one with the MDT-8000, are there advantages to running it max sens in certain soil conditions/areas? Or is there never a scenario to running it that hot?

Is there a certain setting number like the CZ-3d where past 4.5 sens is not advantageous, not any deeper?
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 30, 2020 07:03PM
Running sensitivity low on the Tarsacci sounds about like what you should do with a PI (GPX specifically), especially in iron. Running the gain too high on a PI is usually counterproductive and you lose little if any depth on good targets running it lower. Get it setup right and let the machine do the work.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 30, 2020 07:13PM
Steve...…. Yes. First..... there is a fairly linear increase in performance/depth whilst increasing the Sens..... all the way up to 9. (True..... the CZ max's out with depth....when Sens is around half --- in that 4.5--5.0 range).
Once you have learned the language of the Tarsacci (in slightly lower Sens settings); yes, by all means ……. there's advantages to running the Sens higher...… when conditions allow: Better depth. Better performance.

Andrew.... correct!
Stability for tuition.
Maxed out for seasoned ears … to pick more/deeper targets.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
April 30, 2020 09:51PM
I may be doing it wrong but when I get into thick iron or bad noisy ground, I will leave my sensitivity where it's at and only lower my threshold setting. I kinda derived that from the CoinStrike. MDT and CoinStrike are kinda similar to me in that regard. A little goes a long way with it too. I typically keep mine on -1. That seems to be my goto. If I can keep it stable or just on the edge of stable at -1 I will leave it. If it gets too busy, I drop it to -2 and that usually helps tremendously.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 01, 2020 11:43PM
Well one of your lads in WW2 came a-visiting our lovely ladies over 35 kms from nearest camp!

[www.flickr.com]

Cherry picking trash and all.....fooled only by 1 nail close to button amongst a bulldozed long time buried dwelling site on pasture farmland.

Tom....Re using BLKS. This particular paddock has various composition of different soils and clay with iron galore....to the point the GB would NOT hone in on a number, so TRACK was used. After SALT balancing BLKS was used to knock out residual audio of "chips" that even GB TRACK could not completely knock out. This settlled unit. Mainly MIX mode, odd times AM. DISC run at Minus 28 on 12khz and in 18khz DISC 0 and TH-1 and -2. Both FREQ SENS 9....Yes I pushed the Tarsacci but for new users I recommend lower SENS and TH until you get more time on using unit and audio.

After using PP to find clear ground with no noise, I set up FQ 12 and 18 khz as per ground conditions, gridded one way in 12khz and the other way in 18khz. Beautiful day, no hurry so a few "ear rests".

Edit: For cherry picking I use the unit very much like a PI and "trace" the outline of target by either of 2 methods....sovereign wiggle to narrow footprint down, or use coil in clockwise direction touching edges of target.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2020 11:58PM by Coilpower.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2020 03:05AM
Nice Yank button!!

Hey what's the coin?

Good digs.!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2020 03:08AM
Thanks for detailed report Teresa!
I never use the tracking however I can see how that can help an extreme environment like that.
I’ll be hunting in a nail infested site tomorrow, this information will come in handy!

Thanks!

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2020 06:42AM
Hi Keith....sad to say coin was a modern 1 dollar that probably fell out of pocket riding around farm.
However, an ID on that 3 ring bullet would be appreciated! Found another 2 yesterday in fresh ground. Are they minnies? The 2 pieces of lead on the left with rings marked are intriguing....they are solid lead.
Unfortunately with fertiliser, lime, animal protein, minerals I never find buttons in a lovely state like you guys.

Aaron...yes, TRACK and BLKS have their place. The junk in photo was to show how the Tarsacci likes ROUND...2 lead pieces were selective digging (tid of lead bullets usually) Relic cherry picking with minimum holes in this weather.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2020 10:43AM
Teresa...…. Ok...…..good to know. Sounds like you are using Black Sand 'on'....over 90% of the time.
For that matter...…...it sounds like you are employing all three Modes/options: Ground Balance, Salt Mode and Black Sand. I am just simply thankful that you have these three individualized options available…...to tackle your specific dirt condition(s). (((You already know what it's like without them)))!!
Interesting finds! Those bullets are very unique to me...….. and I'm a shooter!
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 02, 2020 11:11AM
I re-read this........ (((For Dew: There is very negligible loss of depth/performance..... when saltwater was flowing (with some speed) over either of these Nickels. --Unlike VLF's--))).
I know exactly what you mean. A lot of machines in the wash LOOSE targets. Targets like nickels on say my Nox .... especially deep ones change to iron at about 10" near that wash.... and in the wash you may or may not even hear them. The wash can be a real challenge for the VLF.... maybe partially due to the black sand that accumulates there and the expanded air gap as the water comes and goes. The MDT still does very well even there .....maintaining depth and TID
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
May 03, 2020 11:55AM
Keith...….. so far: What would you say (in your dirt) …… are your best control-panel setup configuration(s)…… for unmasking in thick iron?

1. Is 18Khz your #1 "go-to" freq?
2. Salt Mode 'on'?
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