The fate of Tesoro?

goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Made in the USA? Not important to me. American dis
> tributors? Much more important. Service and reliab
> ility backed up by an American company. I will use
> whatever performs the best for the least amount of
> money.

Exactly right -

From what I understand, Tesoro manufactured all their models in the USA -

Garrett, Fisher, Whites, etc get some of their models made in China -

Just like the rest of the western world, if you are not manufacturing in China today, you will have no business tomorrow -

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

First Texas - who makes Fisher makes all of their detectors in El Paso Texas. The only exception is a part of the total number of Bounty Hunter Jr. machines which are indeed built in China. The number varies, depending on demand - everything else, El Paso.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First Texas - who makes Fisher makes all of their
> detectors in El Paso Texas. The only exception is
> a part of the total number of Bounty Hunter Jr. ma
> chines which are indeed built in China. The number
> varies, depending on demand - everything else, El
> Paso.

assembled in el paso

I used to work at Honeywell, Tempe Arizona. Our products included all kinds of aerospace (and other) valves, actuators, hydraulic gear, rocket engine parts, launch vehicle components - US high tech at its best. We “made” NOTHING in our factory. What we did was design, assemble, test, ship - and some warranty work (most was done by repair stations). All fabrication, machining, casting, you name it, was done elsewhere - in the us and overseas.

This is pretty normal for electronics. Parts come in from all over. First Texas’ boards are stuffed in Juarez, across the bridge from El Paso in a plant that they own. The components that go into the boards are almost all manufactured in the Far East, but FT sources them from US companies. Their mechanical bits are sourced in the US. The coils are made in El Paso.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2018 09:55PM by lytle78.

fact is - western labor cannot compete with China

fact is - shareholders do not care where the product is made as their concern is purely profit

fact is - if you are not going to join the majority of global manufacturers these days, you are going to be left behind

fact is - it only took one manufacturer to go running to China and now look at whats happened

fact is - copyright & patent laws strangle the life out of every country EXCEPT China

So - I don't like it either but what can we do?

[www.earthscan.co.nz]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2018 08:17PM by rustic charm.

Hot their ass with a tariff like Trump wants to do.

rustic charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fact is - western labor cannot compete with
> China
>
> fact is - shareholders do not care where th
> e product is made as their concern is purely profi
> t
>
> fact is - if you are not going to join the
> majority of global manufacturers these days, you a
> re going to be left behind
>
> fact is - it only took one manufacturer to
> go running to China and now look at whats happened
>
> fact is - copyright & patent laws strangle
> the life out of every country EXCEPT China
>
> So - I don't like it either but what can we
> do?


simple! bring it all back here,and people will pay extra for stuff made here!..thy won't like it at first,but eventually will understand,and continue to purchase,especially given no choice! tariffs will work! ..undermining our economy,stealing our intellectual property.it can't go on,it's unsustainable!

(h.h.!)
j.t.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2018 09:30PM by jmaryt.

Tariffs are a tax. The US company importing the product pays the duty. Unless the foreign seller decides to cut his price, the consumer pays the increased price or the importer takes it as a cost. The cost of US made products which incorporate foreign components go up.

Foreign countries hit with a “Trade War” retaliate and slap duties on US exports, causing their buyers to purchase goods from elsewhere.

Ford expects to lose $1 billion the first year because of these tariffs and lay off thousands of US workers.

Intellectual property theft is a huge problem but Trade Wars are not the answer.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2018 10:08PM by lytle78.

In what year was it profitable for USA companies to use overseas labor??

Tariffs are an equalizer. Our second constitution and present form of government exists because of the need to present a unified economic front against the rest of the world. For 200 years, tariffs were the norm, protecting American industry and American workers. Then, in the late 70s, with the decline in the labor movement, elite capitalists, with their mantra of "free trade" were somehow able to convince Congress and America to start dismantling its protections. Makes no sense at all, except for elite capitalists. The only way we can equalize the situation, given our regime of worker and environmental protection laws, is with a system of tariffs. Otherwise, there will always be someplace, where there are no such protections, where goods can be produced more cheaply. So long as we have a strong consumer base, we can make tariffs work. If we let things slide much further, we'll no longer have that base... I remember Jobs saying Apple saved $10 or so manufacturing an iPhone overseas; well, we should have a $20 tariff on iPhones--or whatever is necessary to insure that all iPhones sold to Americans are manufactured here. Other countries do that...

The trade war tax is a big gamble.

The tariff/tax simply gets passed onto the consumer, consumers will buy less, companies will suffer. Then consumers may suffer as companies cut back, people may loose their jobs.

It's a big gamble.

The interesting thing is the people who have the most to loose, are the people who make the least. Their jobs are typically the first to go. Then everything at Walmart and the like (where they typically shop) just went up 25% (lets face it, aside from food products, almost everything at Walmart is made in China).

I predict the trade war with China will fail, and our economy will stall, and we'll have another recession. The stock market is at a pumped up all time high, housing market in most areas is back up to post 2008 housing boom prices, it's simply not sustainable, and throw in this massive tax hike on the American public, something will break.

Think these people will benefit from the trade war?

[www.usatoday.com]

Amen, brother. No economist with anything but oatmeal for brains thinks this a a good idea.

Ford is already announcing layoffs - their sales of made in US cars in China just collapsed.

How about a 25% import duty on metal detectors? Anybody want to propose that??? Minelab, XP, Makro/Nokta, you name it. Of course, it makes no sense at all - we want the best and if they come from offshore - why tax us to protect the makers whose products we chose not to buy?

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2018 11:29PM by lytle78.

I'm not for 'depending' on other countries to produce what we buy no matter how much less it cost. Remember back in the 70's when OPEC had our butts over a barrel? Thankfully those days are behind us because Trump put us on a path to energy independence. Besides that, if Americans don't have jobs it doesn't matter how cheap a product is produced in other countries because there won't be any money to buy it with. Furthermore, we'd be up chit creek without a paddle if we had to depend on China to supply us with steel and aluminum if we ever did get into a conflict with them. Let's not forget that China is a communist country. Thank God Trump is our president because liberals barely have enough common sense to hold their ears apart.

tabman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 02:00PM by tabman.

Dubious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tariffs are an equalizer. Our second constitution
> and present form of government exists because of t
> he need to present a unified economic front agains
> t the rest of the world. For 200 years, tariffs we
> re the norm, protecting American industry and Amer
> ican workers. Then, in the late 70s, with the dec
> line in the labor movement, elite capitalists, wit
> h their mantra of "free trade" were somehow able t
> o convince Congress and America to start dismantli
> ng its protections. Makes no sense at all, except
> for elite capitalists. The only way we can equali
> ze the situation, given our regime of worker and e
> nvironmental protection laws, is with a system of
> tariffs. Otherwise, there will always be someplac
> e, where there are no such protections, where good
> s can be produced more cheaply. So long as we hav
> e a strong consumer base, we can make tariffs work
> . If we let things slide much further, we'll no l
> onger have that base... I remember Jobs saying Ap
> ple saved $10 or so manufacturing an iPhone overse
> as; well, we should have a $20 tariff on iPhones--
> or whatever is necessary to insure that all iPhone
> s sold to Americans are manufactured here. Other
> countries do that...


very true! other countries do that! they protect their economies and their worker bases!...us? bring all this "crap" in from china!
stealing workers jobs,and undermining our economy,essentially "'destroying" us from within.building up their military with the very unfair trade imbalances,and stealing our intellectual,and military technology.global trading partner?..ehe! he! he! he!
surely,you jest!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

tabman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not for 'depending' on other countries to prod
> uce what we buy no matter how much less it cost. R
> emember back in the 70's when OPEC had our butts o
> ver a barrel? Thankfully those days are behind us
> because Trump put us on a path to energy independe
> nce. Besides that, if Americans don't have jobs it
> doesn't matter how cheap a product is produced in
> other countries because there won't be any money t
> o buy it with. Furthermore, we'd be up chit creek
> without a paddle if we had to depend on China to s
> upply us with steel and aluminum if we ever did ge
> t into a conflict with them. Let's not forget that
> China is a communist country. Thank God Tru
> mp is our president because liberals barely have e
> nough common sense to hold their ears apart.
>
> tabman


amen! brother! a very "eloquent" way of stating the "truth!"

I'm not so sure the deal with Ford can be ALL blamed on tariffs.

Vehicle sales are down all across the board...not just Ford, and it is globally too. I think a big part of Fords problem here in the US is due to interest rates going up. People were spoiled by the 0% interest stuff, and now that the economy has improved, interest rates have gone up all across the board. Housing loans, vehicle loans, etc. The prices of the vehicles have done nothing but climb....a bare bones basic F150 is around $28,000. Start adding a few options and it's easily a $40,000+ vehicle. At 0% interest, that $40,000 was bitter but doable. At 6% interest...people are simply saying "no deal" and walking off the lots because the average income can't afford it. The company I work for is a major parts supplier for all the big vehicle companies. We've gone from having to work 12 hour rotating shifts (to keep the place running 24/7) to having to go to a normal three shift 8 hour structure...5 days a week schedule due to ALL the manufacturers being slow on sales. Our biggest customer is probably Toyota, which is notorious for having higher priced vehicles anyway....they aren't selling well here in the US either. The average American house hold can't afford the payments for a new vehicle now; but the used car business is booming.

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tesoro has not evolved both technology and more im
> portantly distribution/marketing.
>
> Whites is next and FTP is on shakey ground. IMO
>
> Garrett is stable but certainly not safe. No comp
> any is US or otherwise. Hobby metal is a small ni
> che market in the grand scheme of things.


I agree.
Detectors without meters are just not the in thing, let’s face it.
You can read on this forum over the last 6 years and the story is told.
You try to depend solely on a brand name, you are asking for it.

Basically what we see in metal detector land is what has already happened in the auto manufacturing land.
Obviously more autos so the trend happened sooner and was more apparent.

We in the USA unfortunately are not the only country with smart and very educated folks.

Marketing too has changed with digital means more prevalent.

I would expect too see a merger or 2 before long.

The industry has changed with amenities to detectors becoming wanted and necessary.

Funny thing is, if a manufacturer had a few folks each that just read this forum over the last 5years, they wouldn’t be surprised where we are now with the industry.
Could not having fresh blood in key positions be a reason for lackluster progress as far as units with some manufacturers??

We can all see the boxy look for detectors is OUT.
More cell phone looking (digital) look is IN?

The 4 plus Pounder detectors for general purpose are OUT.
The sub 3.5 pounders are IN.

Bigger readjusts are IN.
Smallwer readouts are OUT.

Wireless headphones are IN.
Corded headphones are OUT.

Detector using more than 4aa batteries are OUT.
Detectors using li pro or 4aa batteries are IN.

Poor service of warranted units is OUT.
Great service of such units is IN.

Getting runaround as far as warranty repairs and or service is OUT.
Getting prompt communications and responses for such is IN.

I wish all manufacturers the best.
Question; is will all do what is necessary to compete and survive in a worldly fashion?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2018 01:24AM by tnsharpshooter.

Maybe it's not the 'in' thing but I think it's fun to hunt without a Target I.D. Meter every once in awhile. You would be surprised what a meter will talk You outta' diggin'. I always keep at least one tone only detector around.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe it's not the 'in' thing but I think it's fun
> to hunt without a Target I.D. Meter every once in
> awhile. You would be surprised what a meter will t
> alk You outta' diggin'. I always keep at least one
> tone only detector around.


Yeah, and driving a car without power steering is fun to do at times and manually unlocking auto car doors can be too. Even using the crank to start a Ford Model T. And cooking on a stove can be fun too, it you take the microwave out of the US tomorrow some folks I think would starve.
Detector companies can’t survive on the extremes and or to satisfy a select few folks.
Manufacturers must be thinking practical to survive and flourish.
I see folks here usually older detectorists who like metelress detectors.
But I don’t think boatloads will ever be bought new again unless maybe a good one can be had for <$60 new. This ain’t happening I don’t think.
So what the old dogs come to like over the years and enjoy likely isn’t where the future with detectors is going.
And let’s face it, with each passing day more (nonmodern trash sites) are becoming modern trash sites.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2018 03:21AM by tnsharpshooter.

Wow - I agree with every word - sooner or later everything happens.

Cheers - Respect

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2018 11:17AM by lytle78.

And most Newbees don't like hunting with a Non metered unit because it takes a skill that must be learned. They don't like to take the time as they jump from machine to machine.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> awhile. You would be surprised what a meter will t
> alk You outta' diggin'.

Too true

And even if many consumers are impressed by TID displays, there's no reason a manufacturer can't offer some models with tones only, along with its tones+TID detectors.

In the near future many of us meterless, knob and switch guys will no longer be around to cater to by detector companies. The young folks are growing up with touch digital screen visual displays. Why would they want to flip switches and turn knobs and listen to mono audio......................when they can do everything with a press of a finger. And they don't exercise, so the entire detector must be very lightweight........................well, at least Tesoro is in the groove with being lightweight.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Dubious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harold,ILL. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > awhile. You would be surprised what a meter will talk You outta' diggin'.
>
> Too true
>
> And even if many consumers are impressed by TID displays, there's no reason a manufacturer can't offer some models with tones only, along with its tones+TID detectors.

The meter is only a tool, you don't live and die by the meter, it's simply another tool in the box of detector goodies that provide information. Whether you decide to dig or not is entirely up to you. Heck even Tesoro made detectors with meters.

You could always put a cover over your meter, and presto! you now have a non-metered, tones only machine

Yes but most Newbs would be lost without a meter as You would have to learn a Detector. They don't keep them maybe a month or two and wait for another new toy to come out. Of course they always have an excuse like bills to pay or what not.
It takes a year to really know a Detector not a couple weeks IMO.

I'm 43...so right at that age where I appreciate the knobs and switches....but also appreciate (and prefer) the digital age.

I sure as hell don't want to go back to cassettes when I have a FLAC playing phone in my pocket....

Sure as hell don't want to develop film again....when I have a DSLR, Photoshop, and a 4K monitor....

Don't want to go to restaurants where everybody is smoking....that sucked as a youth....stupid adults....

Don't want my 71 Nova back...my 2015 Camry is 100X better. Hell, my 2000 Buick with 198K miles is 100X better....


Worked hospice care for roughly 8 years. Was so sad seeing people holding on to the past right up until they breathed their last breath. Was bonkers to me. Their family visits would be 2-3 hours of them bitching about how the past was sooo much better. Wasted time in my opinion.

Then there was the handful of 85-90 year olds that could use a computer - kept up with the times - they had AWESOME family visits. Playing with their Grandkids tablets and phones and giggling and laughing the whole time. Keeping up with modern topics etc etc....

I love me a Vaquero...but there is no way in hell I choose it over a Deus...F75...E800.

Tesoro died for a reason. The diehard old timers could not keep them afloat - and the newcomers don't want anything to do with it. Why should a new user go learn DOS...when they have a Windows GUI instead?

Company X would be a damn fool to buy them out. What happens then? Minelab buys Tesoro and suddenly now everybody wants a Vaquero instead of a new E800? Batpoop crazy logic right there....

These guys are not coming back. No restructure...no buyout. Time to move on and embrace change. (No - that does not mean classic cars suck and there is no point in history or whatever. Sure some drama queen will try to spin that one).

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It takes a year to really know a Detector not a co
> uple weeks IMO.


Running a positive or negative balance? Supertuning? Thumbing a disc knob? Listening for nuances like cracks and pops in a single tone?

If a person needs a year to understand a Tesoro...yet alone a CTX or a V3i....they have a learning disability...IMO.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

Yes but it's like some People prefer Hunting with a Bow and arrow over a Gun. It makes it more of a challenge.
I doubt if they will ever stop making Bow and arrows, But Gun sales will be more of course. But Bow hunters will always have a nitch in the hobby. I think their could be that same little nitch for non TID Detectors.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes but it's like some People prefer Hunting with
> a Bow and arrow over a Gun. It makes it more of a
> challenge.
> I doubt if they will ever stop making Bow and arro
> ws, But Gun sales will be more of course. But Bow
> hunters will always have a nitch in the hobby. I t
> hink their could be that same little nitch for non
> TID Detectors.

Yeah...it is a hard argument for either side honestly. You make a valid point...even if I disagree with it.

Still guys buying and making tube amplifiers. Still people who prefer the sound of vinyl.

I "get it"...but at the same time don't. Some people just like the things they like. Even if somebody else cannot fathom why.

I still don't think the niche is big enough for another company to take over. If Tesoro could not do it on the niche alone....I am unsure how somebody else snaps magic back into it.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

The only way you can easily 'put magic back into it' is to manufacture, and hence sell, the machines for considerably less - ie. abroad in a low labour-cost country. With all the potential trouble that would involve.
And analogue machines tend to contain expensive parts, that aren't getting cheaper, as they become obsolescent.