TDI Beach Hunter

Daniel,would you share Reidman's address for the battery pack for the SL----thanks.

Rick..... that was a little simplified when you defined the Nox and PI just going beep. There is a lot more information in a disc VLF with a TID screen..... than a beep. Im learning here so i have a PI question...... is the TDI using any kind of HI/LO tones like the Finny did? Also, how good are PIs when it comes to masking? The Nox can catch and give signals of near targets.... even targets with different metal. So..... lets say there is a staple in the sand and under it.....a couple of inches is a dime.... will you just get the staple initially? what im asking is ......will the PI continuously go for the easiest/closest target...... which would nullify any depth advantage over the Nox as well as its unmasking ability?

For beach use, most folks seem to agree that once you have ID’d iron, you dig anything else. Otherwise you will likely leave gold jewelry behind - hence my “goes beep” comment.

Your question about target separation is really just a question of recovery speed for horizontally separated targets and ability to “see through” iron for the coin below a staple.

I don’t recall how fast the recovery speed of the TDI was. As far as the ability to “see through” a staple and hit a coin (Tom D’s classic “silent mask”), the TDI in all metal would give its one tone. In GB on, properly set for the GB needs of the beach, you would likely they the low tone for the high conductior dime.

The TDI Beach Hunter lacks the switch to select audio to give just the high or low tone - you get both all the time.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

So masking would occur more with a PI..... simply because it sees identifies more targets that a VLF ..... using disc? Doesnt depth advantage then go out the window over multi tone VLFs.... especially on shallow targets in the 6 to 8" range?

Here's an example of a VLF using disc vs. a PI with a form of iron ID - check out the way the nails on top of the ring totally mask the gold ring for the CTX and the way the PI hits it cleanly while correctly ID'ing the nails when the ring is absent.

It's a 5 minute clip from the 20 minute video I have posted previously here and elsewhere.

I know it's in French, but the demo is pretty clear. First, CTX set to max sensitivity, beach mode - two nails - a bag of black magnetite sand from Fuertaventura in the Canary Islands and a gold ring - then the Manta on the same targets.

[vimeo.com]

The TDI BH does not have the switch to disable one of the two tones it gives, so it would be interesting to try the test with a TDI and see what results various GB settings would give.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Wise man told me ....... physics, stronger target wins.....so how does the ring win not only having the bag over it but with the nails over the ring?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2018 04:42PM by dewcon4414.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wise man told me ....... physics, stronger target
> wins.....so how does the ring win not only having
> the bag over it but with the nails over the ring?


You're assuming this is a basic level "physics" such as two different weights on a scale. My understanding from everything is that this is more like looking at a rainbow. Just because one color is brighter doesn't mean you lose the ability to see other colors. Most detectors lose the differentiation very quickly, this one seems to have a much more refined ability. At least thats how it seems to me.

Advice - don’t type stuff on your phone while splitting a pitcher of Stella with your dear wife - typos/autocorrect madness results. Now revised with my apologies to anyone who tried to dechypher the original gibberish.

The video shows the Mant when “iron cut“ is selected. This is a two channel device - it takes two samples, one starts very early after the pulse cuts off, one starts much later after the pulse cut off. The nails and the massive black sand both have long duration signals the ring and other low conductors have an early start signal. When these are compared in the device the late starting part is “thrown away”.

If you want more technical stuff on this sort of thing, just google Reg Sniff - TDI -Pulse Induction. He has explained the ins and outs of PI detection better than anybody I know. Here’s a link to the basics.

[www.detectorprospector.com]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2018 01:57AM by lytle78.

Report from my hunt from yesterday:

TDI did extremely well at handling the horrible soil/rock at this site. It had rendered many machines useless due to the ground noise, and always requires a major reduction in sensitivity/gain on VLFs. I have to cut the Equinox down to about 10 at this site and the CTX and Excal just nulled the whole time. Nothing is ever deep but the noise causes it to be hard to pick an actual signal out of the noise.

The TDI purred like a happy kitten. I focused only on the high tones...which usually indicates a low conductor type signal. There were several low tones that I didn't even bother with because I didn't want to waste time going after what is probably just iron. The biggest problems I ran into was, it was a lot colder than I thought it was going to be. I didn't even try the wet suit...just put on my chest waders. I was really warm where the waders covered me but the upper body was freezing because all I put on was a medium weight jacket. I was only able to go about where I am in the picture...maybe a bit deeper. I wanted to keep my arm out of the water cause it too was flippin' cold to get wet. The other problem was onlookers. I don't like drawing attention to myself and all during the summer, I would hunt during the early morning or on rainy days when nobody was at the beach. Thus I knew yesterday was too cold for swimmers. What I didn't take into consideration was...leaf lookers and photo people. Here the leaves are just starting to turn and this area draws a lot of photo people. I over heard one grumpy old woman complaining that I was in the water ruining her photo shot...despite me being there first. Those old hags are exactly the kind of people that will complain and cause a ruckus, so I decided it best to leave after only being there about an hour.

No rings but did get several nickels. The detector swings decent in the water. I really like the bright yellow coil color. If I can find some metal free paint, I am going to paint my Nox coil a similar color.

23673 by Daniel Teague, on Flickr

I guess you’re living in a free country, so you’ve got every wright to clean the beach.
And seeing how the water was nice and frisky, I wouldn’t expect the old hag to walk up to you to complain.

This morning I was at the beach and there was a bit more people out there because of the school holidays.
So a few family’s enjoying a walk at the beach.
Had a dog come up to me expecting some play and a lesbian couple
giving me the evil eye because I was detecting on their stretch of the beach.
Their stretch being the exact meter of hard sand just below the high tide line they were walking for a few miles.
God help them they had to move severeal yards towards the waterline,... which is about 400 yards away.

Anyway some people are just grumpy and feel like they should spread their grumpyness.

I could understand the old hag if she were set up for several hours with her 10.000$ or € Leica waiting for the golden hour to catch the magic of autumn.
But come on,... other people inhabit this planet too.

Over the years I have fine tuned my threshold face to an art. Minelab with its high dollar machines can’t even spit at my unwavering, dull, empty, staring into oblivion expression.
There is nothing going on behind these eyes,... you aren’t making any contact what so ever.

Another trick is the good old shouldering of your firearm. With your scoop sitting on the sand you are inviting them in.
Simply shouldering it makes them aware off the gleaming 2.5 lbs of stainless that will strike them down with a single blow.

I have never in my whole life given hassle where it wasn’t needed, never disturbed anyone in their goings on.
But don’t give me any hassle when I’m enjoying my ME-Time.

My attire for the 4 Bft day on the beach was a pair of sailing britches, down underjacket, waterproof sailing jacket, wooly hat, wintergloves and some waterproof boots.
My harness with trash bag, finds bag, goodie bag, detector, scoop and headphones.

Happy days on a windswept contact temp -1°C indeed :-)

Don’t mind the old hags Daniel,... they don’t own waterproofs.
Glad the TDI Beachhunter got a day out!

HH
Johnb

Ive has some real crazies on the beach....some drunks at 4am.....old ladies cussing me out....and teens being teens. Part of the hobby and people just being people.

Johnb -- This area didn't use to get as many visitors but recently, several magazines and online articles put it in the top 5 places to visit for "off the beaten path" kind of places. I have saw the place triple with the number of people and campers. The place has always had campgrounds but rarely did you see an RV or 50+ foot camper. Now it is choked full of them, and 90% of them are out of state. Labor Day weekend has always been the unofficial end to camping season but here we are nearly into November and it was just as full with campers and RVs as it was back in the summer. That's where the hags come into play. They have money and where-ever they go, they expect people to conform to their way. They normally find their way into political influence and therefore one little complaint (say its about a guy metal detecting that never done anything wrong other than they didn't like him being in their newfound paradise) and the right people will do what they can to kiss their butt and make them happy. Metal detecting is not a right but more of a privilege.

Great pic. It's that time of year with the cool mornings, fog, and colorful trees. With the exception of the ever changing beach and rivers, pubic places just dont yield much anymore. Researching rural sites can pay off.

After years in the VLF game I'm getting ready to buy my first PI. With that in mind, in reference to the Miner John Folded 8x12 Mono coil, what does "Folded" mean?

Is it as simple as twisting a large diameter coil 1/2 turn and folding it over at the intersection of the two halves?

Chris Woods Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After years in the VLF game I'm getting ready to b
> uy my first PI. With that in mind, in reference to
> the Miner John Folded 8x12 Mono coil, what does "F
> olded" mean?
>
> Is it as simple as twisting a large diameter coil
> 1/2 turn and folding it over at the intersection o
> f the two halves?


elliptic i think , i had the 7x11 on the tdi sl regular version and i dont recommend it , as it too small and you will loose a lot of depth ( might be good for hyper polluted ground tho).
The regular coil is not that bad i had some issue with water getting in the coil due to porous joint getting eated by salt i guess, no clue if they sorted that out on this version.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2018 09:05PM by youdig.

I liked a mono coil vs the Dual Field or DD.

Daniel, thanks for reporting on the new TDI Beach Hunter as there isn't much info available on the net or Youtube. A few questions come to mind:

1. Does the TDI BH meet NASA Tom's 40% rule: an attribute that is at a minimum 40% greater/better than your best VLF ID capable unit? Is the PI 40% more sensitive at finding small & tiny gold or 40% greater depth on low conductors?

2. The TDI BH doesn't have iron discrimination, did the high tone audio work well enough for your needs?

3. The 12" Dual Field coil is designed for high sensitivity to small targets, deep penetration in salt and other mineralization. What were your thoughts on pin-pointing while in the water?

4. What pulse delay settings did you find best for your detecting?

I'm considering the TDI BH because it's available now, the TDI is a proven design and White's provides great customer service. RNB makes a great Li-ion battery pack, so no problem with detecting time. Thanks,

Bill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2018 07:45PM by cobill.

CoBill -- If you are already familiar with the TDI series, then the Beach Hunter version is really no different than the others in audio and features. The biggest difference is that it is locked into the ALL conductivity position, instead of having a toggle switch like the other TDI machines do.

With stock factory batteries, it is simply a mediocre machine. A TDI SL stuffed into a waterproof housing. I have never been a fan of the TDI SL series...I thought they were robbed of some depth compared to the big box versions. The argument has long been that there really wasn't much difference between them but I have always disagreed with this. The Beach Hunter did gain some of this back somehow. The general consensus is that the wired in coil helped with that. I'm not real sure but there is a difference between it and the SL, and it's for the better.

The biggest change has been with the Reidman aftermarket battery. I had read that the big difference between the big box TDIs and the SL was the battery voltage. People have gone back and forth over this saying that battery voltage has nothing to do with the overall performance of the machine. That stuff is all over my head. All I can tell you is...I bought the battery pack because of longer battery life and next thing I know, I have a very powerful TDI on my hands. The results with standard battery pack are just so/so for me. With the new battery pack, it hits targets on the same level as my GPX 4800. VERY surprising. I had to step back and just weigh out what I was seeing/hearing.

My original plan was to sell the Beach Hunter since I now have a GPX again but now I'm thinking I will hold onto both.

I have always ran the TDIs at 10 micro second pulse delay. Never had a need for going higher.

Pinpointing has always been easy for me...on the dual field coil, it's right in the middle of the center hub. Unless it's a nail, then it will tend to "move" when you circle the signal....thus often ending up in people's sidewall of the hole if they don't circle it. Non ferrous will always be in the center of the hub. I'm not a fan of the dual field coils either...would much prefer a mono coil design but on this machine, will require sending to the factory for them to put one on there.

Miner John lost all his coil building things and his home in the Paradise, CA fire so his coils will be unavailable for a while.

D Tn - interesting statement from you about how the BHTDI with a higher voltage battery goes as deep as your GPX4800.

We may be on the edge of new and exciting developments in multifreaker detectors, but I believe that we have barely scratched the surface of PI’s capabilities. The whole area of PI detecting has been largely neglected, especially as regards relic hinting inland.

The largest selling series of PI detectors - by far - are the Minelab Sd/GP/GPX series of ground balancing nugget detectors - but these seldom were used outside the goldfields.

The history of PI’s for wider hobbiest use is mostly a story of two things.

First - beach hunting. Lots of beach and UW PI’s have been produced by Whites, Fisher, J.D. Fisher, Tesoro and others. Eric Foster designed a bunch of machines, beginning with beach detectors then culminating with his ground balancing series of Goldscan machines - which Whites used as the basis for their TDI and TDI SL.

Second - some folks - you were one - found ground balancing PI’s a “super tool” for hunting relics in terrible ground like Culpepper VA. This is something which some relic hunters in other areas have learned. A Danish operator who I met a couple of years ago swore by a GP PI for finding lots of stuff invisible to their VLF machines in old habitation areas.

Recently, a very experienced detectorist I correspond with in the Western US emailed me about what he was up to these days - his email contained this line...

”still use top end Pulse Induction for my detecting needs both land and water. Everything else are toys, Inland or fresh water black sand mineralization is tougher than west coast black sand. That’s all I use now the GPX 5000 for relic hunting, and a good pi or Minelab for ocean.”

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CoBill -- If you are already familiar with the TD
> I series, then the Beach Hunter version is really
> no different than the others in audio and features
> . The biggest difference is that it is locked int
> o the ALL conductivity position, instead of having
> a toggle switch like the other TDI machines do.
>
> With stock factory batteries, it is simply a medio
> cre machine. A TDI SL stuffed into a waterproof ho
> using. I have never been a fan of the TDI SL seri
> es...I thought they were robbed of some depth comp
> ared to the big box versions. The argument has lo
> ng been that there really wasn't much difference b
> etween them but I have always disagreed with this.
> The Beach Hunter did gain some of this back someho
> w. The general consensus is that the wired in coi
> l helped with that. I'm not real sure but there i
> s a difference between it and the SL, and it's for
> the better.
>
> The biggest change has been with the Reidman after
> market battery. I had read that the big differenc
> e between the big box TDIs and the SL was the batt
> ery voltage. People have gone back and forth over
> this saying that battery voltage has nothing to do
> with the overall performance of the machine. That
> stuff is all over my head. All I can tell you is.
> ..I bought the battery pack because of longer batt
> ery life and next thing I know, I have a very powe
> rful TDI on my hands. The results with standard b
> attery pack are just so/so for me. With the new b
> attery pack, it hits targets on the same level as
> my GPX 4800. VERY surprising. I had to step back
> and just weigh out what I was seeing/hearing.
>
> My original plan was to sell the Beach Hunter sinc
> e I now have a GPX again but now I'm thinking I wi
> ll hold onto both.
>
> I have always ran the TDIs at 10 micro second puls
> e delay. Never had a need for going higher.
>
> Pinpointing has always been easy for me...on the d
> ual field coil, it's right in the middle of the ce
> nter hub. Unless it's a nail, then it will tend t
> o "move" when you circle the signal....thus often
> ending up in people's sidewall of the hole if they
> don't circle it. Non ferrous will always be in t
> he center of the hub. I'm not a fan of the dual f
> ield coils either...would much prefer a mono coil
> design but on this machine, will require sending t
> o the factory for them to put one on there.
>
> Miner John lost all his coil building things and
> his home in the Paradise, CA fire so his coils wil
> l be unavailable for a while.

Daniel, thanks for the response. I have looked for the Reidman aftermarket battery, but can't find it. Can you PM me with your source? Thanks,

Bill

I received an update from Gerry M. on my questions and he has been testing the TDI Beachhunter off the waters and beaches of Mexico:

My input to your questions is my findings at the beaches I used and different locations could (probably will) result in change.

1) Yes the TDI beach Hunter is Deeper (on coins and most rings) than my Xcal, 3030 and Equinox in salt water. Not sure it is 40%, but I did notice the depth difference. Sensitivity to small targets. I found stud ear rings in the water with the TDI and that I did not expect from a PI. Now I will tell you, the Equinox is even more sensitive to the tiniest signals, but when I use the TDI I'm mainly looking for rings and the extra Sensitivity to other jewelry finds was a bonus.

2) The Hi/Low Tone Feature is a Lifesaver and after a day and a half, I had to nailed down. Even the iron hair pin (which does come in at a Hi Tone like most gold rings) I could tell from the pattern of the hi tone. Not having to dig all the coins (low tones) is perfectly fine with me.

3) My 40+ yrs detecting has taught me some pretty easy pin-pointing when compared to a Novice Hunter. Realize a larger 12" will make multiple beeps on a surface target, so be sure to lift the coil 6" to 8" off the ground to get a single response. This is also a good way to get a "gestimate" of target size and or depth. I had no problems. Again it was more Sensitive to smaller jewelry that I had expected, which is a win win.

4) Pulse Delay Setting varies, but I try to keep it from 12 to 18. If hunting a site and beach conditions/time permits, I'll be around 12 for smaller gold, but if I need to grab and go and after the gravy, then around 16-18. Ground mineralization also affects the desired setting of Pulse Delay. Realize the Ground Balance too is working with the Pulse Delay so there is no exact setting for all.

Word of caution on the Hi/Low Tone Identification System. As you make bigger adjustments to GB and Delay, it does change the pattern of Tone ID, so again you are best to have a couple sample targets at your desired location and play with them, the detector and settings to learn what is ideal for that site. Yes it could take you 15 to 20 minutes, but Detector knowledge at that site = Treasure Finds Success.

All ear ring finds in the photo were recovered with the new White's TDI Beach Hunter on the trip. I'd say it certainly does have Sensitivity to small targets and that usually is not what a PI is best at. White's did quite well again.
[s1139.photobucket.com][/img]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2018 02:07AM by cobill.

Our family did not do the turkey day dinner today...so I checked the water levels and grabbed the detectors to go give it a whirl.

My best swimming area for rings, the water was down about halfway to winter levels...so it wasn't where I wanted it to be, but still let me hunt about a 10 foot wide area that is normally under water. This was going to let me see what those pesky targets were that fall thru my scoop when the water is up.

2nd signal was a HUGE wedding band. Tungsten of course. It's probably a size 14 or better. No coins...that was to be expected since I hunted this all summer long in the water. How I missed that ring though I will never know. It was about 4 inches deep. Got a weird multi tone signal and it ended up being another ring...silver but with an adjustable band. My 10 yr old niece could barely put it on her pinky it's so small. The small single digit signals that normally fall thru the scoop were split shot fishing weights. I hunted this area pretty well with the Equinox and then decided to see if the TDI Beach could find anything I had missed with the Nox.

There is one area of this beach where the Nox jumps about 20 digits in GB numbers. Most of the beach will balance in the 40s....then one half of the beach, the ground turns to muck with clay under it...and the numbers jump into the mid 60s. I get falsing there with the Nox. I wanted to see if the TDI ran well in it. It did....super smooth and no falses.

I only chased the high tones on the TDI. I actually got a very very deep nickel that I missed with the Nox. It was deep enough my hole filled with water. I'm guessing 13 inches or so. Other than that, all I found were a couple bobby hair pins and a .22 bullet. I like how the machine sounds and swings. No doubt if I would have started with the TDI, I woulda found both rings too. That puts me at 18 for the year and the best hunting is yet to come. I did not get in the water today. I thought hard about putting my chest waders on but decided to stick to land.

Daniel, thanks for the update on your adventures with the TDI Beachhunter. I've managed to get ahold of Reidman and order a battery pack.

I hope to hear more from Gerry M. about his trip to Mexico...he scored many, many rings!

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone,

Bill

I think you will like the battery. I got it just for extended battery life...the boost in power and depth was a nice surprise and bonus. I will note (might have said it already) that when the battery is fully charged, it will make the detector overload for a few seconds when you first turn it on. After it does that, all is well. I actually believe it makes this machine go deeper than a big box TDI.

May sneak away and try another area tomorrow. One of my other favorite lakes does not have any online lake level data so I don't know if it is drawn down or not. It's an hour drive for me and I hate to drive that far and it still be up. I was there a few weeks ago and it was still up. Some years they pull it down and some years they do not. It's always a crap shoot. Sometimes I get lucky and see friends on Facebook that have pictures from up there and I can see the water levels. I have a feeling that when they do drop it again, it is going to give up a lot of jewelry.

Got a couple more hunts in with this machine. The depth is impressive to me on the freshwater beaches.

I've been hunting back and forth between it and the Nox. Hunted one area with the Nox first and dug all the signals I felt were good. Then re hunted with the TDI Beach. Here is what I really don't like about the machine:

1. Friggin' bobby pins! They give a screaming high tone...just like nickels, low conductive rings, etc. A discriminating VLF does not read them as a non ferrous target so they are easily discriminated out. Not on the TDI. If LOVES them and they are everywhere on the freshwater beach. You can't pass them up cause they sound too good. Might not be as bad on a saltwater beach but if they are there, you are gonna find em.

2. Fishing sinkers...smaller sizes. The Nox also picks these up down to several inches. The TDI picks up where the Nox leaves off on them. The blade on my little shovel is 7 inches long and I've had it buried so deep in the holes that I couldn't even get my boot on the blade hilt to push it any further in the ground...and then out comes a 1/4 oz fishng split shot.

Also of note....by now I should have found a chain with the Nox if it is capable and I have not. I am digging every signal from 1 on up. In the spots I'm hunting, there has to have been one chain or bracelet lost over the years...and I'm betting they are there... but have not found a detector that can detect them.

Since I now have a GPX, I will be letting this TDI Beach go if anybody is interested and will do it for a fair price. I will also include the Reidman battery and charger.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 2. Fishing sinkers...smaller sizes.

Daniel...that's a good thing yes ? You talking buckshot sinkers and the 1/16th and 1/32 sized jig heads ? I know they are a pain but small gold can fall into that same category.

As far as those bobbie pins go....yup, they are a huge thorn in the side.

Glad the machine is working out for you.

Based on your reports I ended up buying a like new used one off a forum member (different forum). Always liked how the original TDI ran on the salt water beaches here in NJ but never did like bagging the control box and wondering if a rogue wave was gonna hit and what that salt air was doing to the unit so I sold it. This one being waterproof is a big plus for me. Don't care if it's a tad less deep that the original or Pro, can't change coils and you can't select high tone or low tone only....the waterproofness out weighs those small negatives by a lot when salt water beach hunting (as well as the hard wired connector).

Now that big coil...if Whites does have an option at some point to swap out for a 10 inch mono I would do that !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2018 05:44PM by therover61.

Hey Daniel,
Don't get discouraged so quickly. Gold prospectors go through the same challenges...we have to dig everything to get some treasure and no detector is 100% accurate when you're targeting low conductors. You should see our huge trash piles compared to gold. The successful guys & gals don't give up and keep on detecting. The first thing I was asked while attending professional gold detector training was: "Show me your trash". If I didn't have alot of small lead, wire, shot...then I was only listening for loud signals and targets that weren't gold! If there was a gold chain in the ground, the NOX and/or White's TDI BH would have found it.

Bill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2018 07:10PM by cobill.

The fishing sinkers, I don't mind as much as the bobby pins and fishing hooks. I got into a whole pile of hooks the other day that sounded off with a high tone. They were stainless circle hooks for live bait. There was 10 or so of them in one spot.

A good note on the bobby pins...I just tested some on the GPX and the iron disc will blank them out. Even if you back off the iron disc, it still gives a funky warble over them. Whereas a ring is loud n clear and pure. I am a little hesitant to take a GPX on the beach but I've got a nice control box cover coming for it so I think I'm gonna go for it.

If you guys are interested in the TDI Beach, I will sell it for $800 shipped as it comes from the factory or $900 shipped with everything and the Reidman battery and charger.

Would also trade for one of those complete Deus units with HF coil.

I'll take it Daniel.
Sent you another PM

TT

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Since I now have a GPX, I will be letting this TDI
> Beach go if anybody is interested and will do it f
> or a fair price. I will also include the Reidman
> battery and charger.

Well... that settles that.

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant