Are these recent detectors truly innovative or creative in design?

You are going to have to specify what detectors you are talking about.

Minutely to Promising at times.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

silverfiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are going to have to specify what detectors yo
> u are talking about.


Yes, please.

They go faster , get better mileage , are more comfortable , have more features,,,,so yes they are definitely the implementation of innovation and creativity.

You left out affordable lol. That was a pretty general question...... which machines? Cant be Toms or Fishers because we've not seem what they can do yet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 10:03AM by dewcon4414.

In the weight department then a massive 'yes' especially if you have been detecting for many years using older lunch box machines,as we get older the last thing we need is lugging a great big heavy detector around all day long.

Truly innovative or creative in design?

The Ford Edsel was innovative in design - so was the Minelab Go-Find!

Now that I have had my fun....

The Deus was the single most innovative and creative design that we have seen in a long time. Wireless, all the detecting electronics in coil, multiple control devices, ergonomic and featherlight mechanical design, user selectable multifrequencies. Pretty much all of this for the first time in a commercial detecting product.

The Nox is nice, but offers nothing new in mechanical design and its electronic design is clearly a refinement of ML’s existing multifreaker tech - a useful refinement, but a refinement nonetheless. TNSS has correctly pointed out the charging/USB connector as innovative use of a new off-the-self connector type.

The ML GPZ is a truly new electronic design, using an Induction balance coil along with a detector using time domain analysis - neither a PI or a VLF.

Gargov’s new machine seems to depend on an electronic design not previously marketed - we will have to wait and see when it appears.

Fisher’s new PI is a refinement of the approach developed by Eric Fisher - it seems to be a pretty dramatic refinement - quieter, deeper, more useful iron ID - but a refinement. While its mechanical design may be a “breakthrough” compared to previous PI’s, it isn’t likely to be the kind of radical departure that the Deus was. There have been hints of more advanced devices to come, using technologies not seen before in consumer detectors - but “many’s the slip twixt the cup and the lip”.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 02:19PM by lytle78.

Some facets of the more recent are.

I like the magnetic charge plug on Nox.
I like the connectors used on Impact, Multi Kruzer and Anfibio.

I like the charge plug on Nox doubles as update plug.

Would like to see someone make a waterproof wireless headphone to go with their waterproof detector.

Seeing detectors as of late with alternative power means capabilities is nice.

Still would like to see a smart detector created.
Like for example just change the head and presto you are off and running.
The Nox would be a good one to try his concept.

Xp is sorta doing but $500 a coil is too steep imo.

Seems wireless capable pinpointer used with detectors is the next thing being tried by a few.

As far as anything real new being offered in near future, doesn’t look like much at all.

Market is highly saturated currently. Detector manufacturers have to dig deep with something else creative to spark interest.
Might just be the PI world that steals the show next.

The hair splitting as far as VLF is getting very thin, industry turned more towards creature comfort.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 02:18PM by tnsharpshooter.

Tell us WHICH new machines you're referring to, please.

We've already had Rick Lytle talking about the 9 year old Deus as though it was 'recent', and others talking about machines that haven't come out yet so no-one knows if they're innovative or not.

It may help if you give us a short-list of detectors, then we can one-by-one give verdicts on what aspects of them are innovative / not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2018 02:37PM by Pimento.

Nope

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Seems wireless capable pinpointer used with detectors is the next thing being tried by a few.

So far, IMO, they've missed the mark on wireless pinpointers. Until they can link to the detector and operate as an inline probe (aka Sunray), it's more of a gimmick then an innovation IMO.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Would like to see someone make a waterproof wirele
> ss headphone to go with their waterproof detector.


Would be nice but I doubt we’ll see that in any of our lifetimes.
The power necessary to transmit through water is a huge hurdle
When our submarines still use cable tethered antenna buoys its
probably safe to say our detectors will be cabled when underwater for a bit longer! LOL

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Seems wireless capable pinpointer used with det
> ectors is the next thing being tried by a few.
>
> So far, IMO, they've missed the mark on wireless p
> inpointers. Until they can link to the detector a
> nd operate as an inline probe (aka Sunray), it's m
> ore of a gimmick then an innovation IMO.

Hopefully Dilek is listening!!!!
The sunray is what keeps my Explorer at the top of my list!

I was just thinking yesterday as I was recovery targets from a heavily nail infested site how nice it would be if pinpointers had the ability to discriminate out nails. Maybe even have 2 audio tones.

tabman

tabman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was just thinking yesterday as I was recovery ta
> rgets from a heavily nail infested site how nice i
> t would be if pinpointers had the ability to discr
> iminate out nails. Maybe even have 2 audio tones.
>
> tabman

Please someone make this ive been waiting for years for a pinpointer that ids iron functionally

What? You don't like the Minelab ProFind 35's iron discrimination?

Sunray Inlines have always been the pinnacle in discriminating pin pointers. It just all the cabling and extra weight that makes them troublesome. That and forgetting to switch em back to detector when you're done (before you've walked 12 feet)...

HH
Mike

I do alot of burn pit digs and bottle dumps along with old foundations.A pinpointer that could work like a vlf two tone detector would be a invaluable tool for me.The minelab pinpointer missed the mark in my opinion

I agree with you about sunray doing the best job at this so far.Now we just need it to not need to be connected to a detector.

If I have to provide a list then that would not make any sense to me because the last detector that was a true departure form the norm is the XP Deus. Very innovative and creative.

So by "recent" , you mean any new machine produced after 2009 (when the Deus came out).
That broaden the choice a lot, which is good. I think many on here thought you meant the past year or two.

Edit: In case there is any doubt as to when the Deus was released, the earliest Forum discussions I can find are dated to November 2009, such as this thread " My first sortie with the Deus" on a French Forum:
[www.detecteur.net]

The earliest UK forum posts I've found date to Feb 2010.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2018 02:43PM by Pimento.

TabZilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> >
> > > Seems wireless capable pinpointer used with detectors is the next thing being tried by a few.
> >
> > So far, IMO, they've missed the mark on wireless pinpointers. Until they can link to the detector and operate as an inline probe (aka Sunray), it's more of a gimmick then an innovation IMO.
>
> Hopefully Dilek is listening!!!!
> The sunray is what keeps my Explorer at the top of my list!

Believe me, when she told me they had a wireless probe, I was hopeful of an inline probe, when she said it wasn't, I expressed my disappointment. Sadly I don't really think their aware of how an inline probe works and it's benefits.

If Minelab ever made an inline probe for the Equinox, they'd make a small fortune.

Quote:"If Minelab ever made an inline probe for the Equinox, they'd make a small fortune."

I'm not so sure. It would be quite expensive, because it would have to contain nearly all the electronics that the standard coils have. This is physically achievable, I think. Another issue may be the problem of switching from one coil to the other ... could the machine cope with this?. And then there's the business of multi-frequency ... it's not necessary for a pinpoint probe to run in multifreq mode, and it would be slightly easier and cheaper to make it single-freq, too, probably 20kHz ( or thereabouts), so the detector would need to identify the probe as such, and automatically switch to the single-freq mode.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:"If Minelab ever made an inline
> probe for the Equinox, they'd make a small fortune
> ."
>
> I'm not so sure. It would be quite expensive, beca
> use it would have to contain nearly all the electr
> onics that the standard coils have. This is physic
> ally achievable, I think. Another issue may be the
> problem of switching from one coil to the other ..
> . could the machine cope with this?. And then ther
> e's the business of multi-frequency ... it's not n
> ecessary for a pinpoint probe to run in multifreq
> mode, and it would be slightly easier and cheaper
> to make it single-freq, too, probably 20kHz ( or t
> hereabouts), so the detector would need to identif
> y the probe as such, and automatically switch to t
> he single-freq mode.


You're thinking about it wrong. Don't consider an in-line to be a "probe". Think of it as a 1" coil, which does everything exactly like the main coil. Is it possible with the EQX? Dunno. It worked great with the E-Trac and was the only reason I was sad to move away from the trac to the CTX. Considering that used Sunray inlines sell for $300 I dont think ML would have any trouble selling the hell out of these if they could be made.

I'm reasonably familiar with what it is, I'm a Geotech1 regular. I'm pointing out it would have more electronics inside it than the Etrac version, which just has a signal pre-amplifier in it. So that would make it a bit more expensive. Plus, it would be manufactured by ML ( or possibly one of their close partners ), so may cost more than an aftermarket SunRay-like version.

For info, here's MD-Hunter's page showing some X-ray pics of the Equinox coil, including the electronics PCB. It doesn't have a huge amount on it, certainly less than the CTX3030, it's probably more like the X-Terra - a pre-amplifier, and a microprocessor for coil identification/anti-copy protection. If there's also an accelerometer, it would be no use in an inline probe, anyway, so could be dropped.
[md-hunter.com]

The problem of switching from one coil to the other (inline) is more complex on the Equinox. I understand that regular SunRay's use a 4-pole changeover switch, to toggle all 4 wires ( two transmit, two receive) from one to the other. The Equinox coil seems more like the CTX/X-Terra in it's wiring, having power lines, two-way data exchange wires, in addition to RX/TX stuff. So switching over may require a bit of electronics in the 'switchover box'. It would certainly be smarter to have two coil connectors on the main control box, one for the main coil, one for the inline probe, and do all the 'switching' where the brains and electronics are.

Edit: seeing as there would be electronics in such a probe, it could probably be designed with a button built in, that selects (non-motion) all-metal mode / pinpoint mode. That would be unique. And it would be possible to switch from main coil to probe with a button on the probe, too, perhaps put an LED on it, so you know which coil is active?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 07:56PM by Pimento.

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What? You don't like the Minelab ProFind 35's iron discrimination?

What? They have iron disc - lol

>
> Sunray Inlines have always been the pinnacle in discriminating pin pointers. It just all the cabling and extra weight that makes them troublesome. That and forgetting to switch em back to detector when you're done (before you've walked 12 feet)...
>
> HH
> Mike

Sunray set the gold standard with their inline probes. Yes the cabling is a PITA, and I cannot tell you how many times I've left the switch on probe mode wondering around a site thinking dang, it's pretty quite only to discover it wasn't on coil mode - lol I had one for my C$ and ID Edge, and my F75, they were ok, far better on the Minelabs, hopefully someone is listening and takes on the challenge to make wireless inline probes for their detectors, should be a difficult thing to make and IMO it would push a lot of machine sales.

Having a solid detector with wireless headphones and a wireless inline probe are the kind of things dreams are made of IF Nokta was smart, they'd make sure this was an optional feature when they release their new SMF detector (calling Dilek - tap, tap, tap, is this thing on???)

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:"If Minelab ever made an inline
> probe for the Equinox, they'd make a small fortune
> ."
>
> I'm not so sure. It would be quite expensive, beca
> use it would have to contain nearly all the electr
> onics that the standard coils have. This is physic
> ally achievable, I think. Another issue may be the
> problem of switching from one coil to the other ..
> . could the machine cope with this?. And then ther
> e's the business of multi-frequency ... it's not n
> ecessary for a pinpoint probe to run in multifreq
> mode, and it would be slightly easier and cheaper
> to make it single-freq, too, probably 20kHz ( or t
> hereabouts), so the detector would need to identif
> y the probe as such, and automatically switch to t
> he single-freq mode.

I think if you made it run a single frequency, that would be perfectly acceptable, as long as the audio and user set disc is retained.

Expensive, perhaps, have you seen the price of a used Sunray Explorer probe lately? I'd happily shell out $299 - $329 for a well thought out wireless inline Equinox probe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 09:28PM by Cal_cobra.

I have to admit, I'm not familiar with US prices in general, and especially for niche items like SunRay probes. They are also not that common or popular here in the UK, maybe it's the cost, or the servicing issues, most people seem happy with regular pointers, there's certainly plenty to choose from nowadays, both in terms of price and performance/features.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to admit, I'm not familiar with US prices in general, and especially for niche items like Sun
> Ray probes. They are also not that common or popul
> ar here in the UK, maybe it's the cost, or the ser
> vicing issues, most people seem happy with regular
> pointers, there's certainly plenty to choose from
> nowadays, both in terms of price and performance/f
> eatures.

I could definitely be a niche market. The die hard Explorer-Etrac users LOVE their inline Sunray probes. So much so, that many of them will simply not move to the likes of the CTX or the Equinox, even if they are (arguably) better detectors from a variety of aspects.

That said, I still believe it would be a popular accessory. Wireless non-inline functionality to the headphones is a step in the right direction, but if you can replicate the Sunray approach in a wireless package, it would be a big hit.

Hmmmm...
XP maybe?
Wireless pioneers.