INPUT NEEDED -- Regarding Counter-Weight System for Equinox shafts

A couple of updates...

FIRST UPDATE … After working for awhile to hammer out the details, I'm happy to announce that I've reached an agreement with my friend Jeff Herke, regarding custom arm cuffs for the EQX shafts. Jeff has agreed to provide an initially limited run of "Herke arm cuffs," that will be sold as a custom accessory for my complete shaft system. The cuffs will be nearly identical to Herke cuffs you may own/have owned for other machines, and will likely also include the option for padded neoprene cuff covers. Depending upon demand for this initial production run of cuffs, Jeff will decide whether or not to continue to produce additional cuffs, as needed. I'll have these Herke cuffs uploaded to my website, at the same time the complete shafts first become available (estimated mid-January).


SECOND UPDATE … After a couple of days of thinking, partially shaped by feedback from many folks (thanks to all) -- I believe I am very close to finalizing the design for the counterweigh system, enough to order parts for prototype testing. My plan is to produce the counterweights from 35mm O.D. x 33mm I.D. carbon-fiber tubes. They will screw into the butt-end of the shaft via threaded connectors, and will be capped by a threaded end cap. The threaded end cap will allow for easy addition/removal of weight, as the customer desires. I will also be purchasing a supply of heavy-duty ziplock bags, which will be of roughly the same diameter as the inside of the carbon-fiber tube. The bags will be of various heights -- to accommodate several different amounts of weight (lead pellets). I will ship either WITH lead included, or without, depending upon customer desire. I plan to supply 2" tall bags (to accommodate roughly 8 - 10 oz. of weight), 3" tall bags (to accommodate roughly 12 to 15 oz. of weight), and 6" tall bags (to accommodate roughly 24-30 oz. weight).

Using 35mm O.D. tubes, the top of the counterweight tube will be on the same plane as/flush with the bottom of the arm cuff. I expect to be able to keep the weights to a maximum of 6" length or less, per customer specification (6" being long enough to accommodate the weight needed to fully balance the 15" coil). Purchase of a roughly 6" counterweight would therefore allow any combination of weight (via pellets in the plastic bags) to be added or removed, simply by removing the end cap. Shorter counterweights will be constructed in the same way (likely in roughly 2" and 4" lengths), and -- while still including the threaded end cap and plastic bags, so as to be "customizable" in terms of the amount of weight, the shorter-length tubes would of course not accommodate quite as much weight.

At this point, calculations show that 2 1/2" or so of tube length will hold roughly 12 oz. weight, 4.75" or so will hold roughly 25 oz. of weight, and 5 1/2" or so will hold 28 oz. weight.

I chose to specifically mention 12 oz., 25 oz., and 28 oz. as the weights to use as example tube lengths, for this reason:

Assuming "average" lower shaft adjustment length, and a "reasonable" shaft angle, relative to the ground (i.e. swinging the coil a moderate/reasonable distance out from your feet)…

12 oz. is roughly the amount of weight needed to COMPLETELY BALANCE the machine with 6" coil.

12 oz. is ALSO roughly the amount of weight needed to offset the weight difference between the 6" coil and the 12" x 15" coil; said another way, 12 oz. counterweight will make the machine feel the same when swinging the 12" x 15" coil, as it would when swinging the 6" coil with NO counterweight.

25 oz. is roughly the amount of weight needed to COMPLETELY BALANCE the machine for the 11" coil.

28 oz. is roughly the amount of weight needed to COMPLETELY BALANCE the machine for the 12" x 15" coil.

I would like to stress again, that it's completely up to the user as to the amount of counterweight which is "right" for their needs/desires/preferences. Some may wish for COMPLETE balance, for the larger coils; others may wish to only offset the additional weight added when using one of the larger coils. Still others may wish only for a few ounces of counterweight, just to "help a little." And of course, MANY folks will prefer no counterweights at all -- preferring instead the benefits of a lighter machine, as afforded by the carbon-fiber shaft without counterweights.

The bottom line is this -- this design of the counterweight system will allow complete customer flexibility in terms of exactly what length of counterweight they wish for me to produce for them, and exactly what amount of weight they wish to include in that tube.

Thanks all, for all your input. These interactions have been quite helpful toward finalizing the design. I think that at this point, with the weights as an optional accessory, this design will allow the most flexibility possible in terms of individual customer wishes -- ranging anywhere from NO COUNTERWEIGHT AT ALL (and thus a lighter machine than when using the stock shaft system), all the way up through fully balancing the 12" x 15" coil via roughly 28oz. counterweight -- plus any other combination of desired counterweight/balance in between.

Thanks!

Steve

Gary in Daytona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds great, easy installation, somewhat adjustab
> le weight-wise, and counterbalances right out of t
> he box. And when you consider your (secondary) obj
> ective of trying to keep the costs down, this seem
> s like a ideal solution. Well done. I’m on board,
> looking forward to giving it a try.


Gary -- there have been so many posts here, I'm not sure which one you are referring to here! LOL! Please let me know if your "favorable" vote here relates to what I just laid out, in the post above. THANKS!

Steve

that sounds great steve. if your saying a 2.5" tube can hold 12oz of weight and be below or same level as arm cuff then that's what id get..

Steve------I have used Jeffs arm cuffs on my Explorers & Etracs for many years and love them on those detectors, a great product------A comment & question(s): The Herke arm cuff for the FBS machines is a little heavier than the stock arm cuffs.------One made for the Equinox will also be heavier than the stock arm cuff on that detector.-----Is this assumption correct?-------Also, how will the addition of Jeffs arm cuff with your shaft system figure into the weight/balance equation?------Have you made allowances for his cuff also or is your plans you have laid out for use with the stock cuff (only)?------Also, how is Jeffs cuff going to attach to your shaft?----Will a person be able to add it (replace the stock cuff with it) at a later date if so desired?-----I assume the clearance will be approximately the same with either cuff?------Del



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2018 05:20PM by D&P-OR.

basstrackerman --

sounds good, thanks!

Del --

Yes, it's a bit heavier. The stock arm cuff is 4.0 ounces, Jeff's is 8.2 ounces. I figured the "counterbalance" weight using the stock arm cuff. Using Jeff's cuff (as it would "assist" with counterbalancing) would reduce the amount of counterweight needed in the counterweight tube -- NOT by the full 4.2 ounces, because it's closer to the "fulcrum," but probably by at least 3 ounces, maybe 3 1/2. Testing, once I have the materials to build the prototype weights, will tell the story for sure. But remember, if I built you a counterweight with, say, 25 ounces (to fully balance the stock coil), and then later you bought a Herke cuff, then you would just remove a few ounces of weight (I would be able to tell you how much at that point), because given the way I'm designing the counterweight, with the screw cap on the end of the counterweight tube -- WEIGHT CAN BE EASILY ADDED or REMOVED, as circumstances dictate.

Jeff's cuff attaches using the same bolt hole as Minelab's stock cuff does. So yes, you could absolutely replace the stock cuff with a Herke cuff at a later date.

Yes, clearance is approximately the same; or at least very close. Jeff's cuff may sit 1/8" or so lower, but it's negligible. In any case, all the studying/measuring I did the other day, and looking in the mirror at the "geometry" of my forearm and elbow, as it sits in an arm cuff -- my elbow bone did not come ANYWHERE CLOSE to the plane of the shaft, with my forearm in the cuff. I am near 100% certain that even if I had designed a counterweight that extended 1/4" to 3/8" above the "plane" of the bottom of the cuff, it would still be nowhere near being in the way of one's elbow. But, to be extra-safe, I went with a 35mm tube, 1/4" larger than the upper shaft diameter -- i.e. flush with plane of the bottom of the cuff.

Thanks!

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2018 08:54AM by steveg.

Steve, yes what you came up was exactly the ideal solution I was referring to. Looking forward to giving it a try, along with the enhanced cuff. Keep us posted.

> --------------------------------------------------
> Steveg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

> Gary -- there have been so many posts here, I'm no
> t sure which one you are referring to here! LOL!
> Please let me know if your "favorable" vote here r
> elates to what I just laid out, in the post above.
> THANKS!
>
> Steve

Gary --

That sounds great. Thanks for your reply. I think what has been arrived at will be the most flexible, easy-to-use counterbalance system that remains cost-efficient. Parts have been ordered, to do some final testing and then build a good initial supply of counterweights.

Thanks!

Steve

How’s the project coming Steve? I know everything ships fairly slow around the holidays, and figured you were still waiting on parts but thought I’d check. TIA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2019 12:49PM by Gary in Daytona.

In 2010 after swinging an Ace 250 for a bit I quickly saw a need for an arm cuff extension and counter weight. I designed and made several prototypes. I sent them out to a few die hard Garrett users for feedback. I tweaked them slightly and started making and selling them. The GIZMO works on all Ace and AT machines. Sales dies off a couple of years because of competition. I still get inquires about the GIZMO's and unless I can make 50 at a time it isn't worth my time. Here is a short video of the GIZMO - Excuse the quality of this video because back then I had to highly compress them - [www.youtube.com]

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Gary --

Thanks for asking! We are getting very close. I have received some of the parts; in fact, I just finished buildling 20 of the lower rods this evening. Most of the upper shaft parts should be here within 1 week -- CF tubes, cam locks, and non-threaded end caps. So conceivably, I could begin sending out some shafts as early as the very end of next week (for anyone not interested in their shaft having the threaded butt-end -- for compatibility with the counterweight system).

Meanwhile, the THREADED end caps (and threaded butt-end fittings) will arrive within 10 days to 2 weeks. Also arriving at roughly the same time will be parts to build another bunch of lower rods, as well as the rest of the parts needed for building the counterweights. So, within two weeks, I should have ALL the necessary parts.

I plan to contact everyone who has previously expressed interest, very soon, to formalize a "wait list" and make sure I know which shaft option/options each person would like. So you can expect to hear from me soon, Gary!

Anyone else who may be interested in the shafts, who hasn't contacted me yet, please let me know, and I'll get you added to the list.

khouse --

I have seen your video before, and I think that was a great idea -- and a very nice addition to the ACE detectors. I love the ingenuity! Thanks for sharing; your thoughts about counterbalancing the ACE are along the same lines as to what let me to designing something similar, with the EQX.

Steve

Steve-----How much is the whole (complete) shaft system with the counter balance extension & weights going to cost? (how much are you going to sell them for)

There will be a "window" where comfort and weight must fit. I would error to the low side of the window because weight is weight. As simple as my Gizmo was I made around 40 different lengths and types. Some were composite, tube and finally solid aluminum. I used each design myself for hours. I also sent prototypes out to be field tested. Cost was a big factor - probably the biggest! I bought 4ft pieces of raw material, cut to 7 inches and turned the first 50 on an old Craftsman lathe. It took me 2 hours for each one. Then I had to package and mail them. I could not keep up with the demand. I was always trying to cut costs as well. So after a year I figured out how to save $3 in shipping by using 1st class mail which is exactly as fast as Priority mail. I know this because a friend at the Post office told me 1st class is shipped with priority mail to save money. Then I started using Poly bubble mailers. Then I found a supplier of my aluminum that was cheaper and also cut the material to 7 inches for me for free. This saved me tons of money. Then I asked an ex relative of mine that had a full machine shop to quoted me on machining them for me. It was $2.50 a piece if I supplied the material!! It took me 2 hours so this saved me a lot!! All he did was write a program and the machine did everything in like 2 minutes. In the end I was selling a better product that netted me a lot more profit and basically I filled orders.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

khouse --

VERY interesting! I can relate to so much of what you are saying there; there is so much involved in trying to run a little business, and create a quality product at a price people can afford, and yet still let you make a bit extra for your time and effort. I hear you on the "balance, vs. overall weight" thing -- and it's a big part of why I've made them so that the weight is adjustable -- added or reduced, as desired by the user...

Del --

The pricing info, plus a bunch more stuff, will be going out in a letter (via email or PM) to all of those who are interested, shortly. However, I'll cut-and-paste the pertinent portions, which you are asking about...


THE STANDARD SHAFT OPTIONS WILL BE AS FOLLOWS…

1. Carbon-fiber upper shaft, no lower rod, permanent end cap...
$79.00 plus shipping

2. Carbon-fiber upper shaft, no lower rod, threaded butt-end and threaded end cap (for compatibility with the optional counter-weight system)…
$89.00 plus shipping

3. Complete carbon-fiber upper shaft, including 26" carbon-fiber lower rod, permanent end cap…
$129.00 plus shipping

4. Complete carbon-fiber upper shaft, including 26" carbon-fiber lower rod, threaded butt-end and threaded end cap (for compatibility with the optional counter-weight system)…
$139.00 plus shipping

As mentioned, these standard shaft options do not include spring-button holes; however, spring-button holes are an option (for anyone who desires to utilize the spring button in the lower rod). Any of the above shaft options can be purchased with button holes included, for an additional $10.00 per shaft.

Finally, a couple of optional accessories will also be available…

1. Additional lower rods, normally priced at $69 apiece plus shipping, will be available for $55 plus $5 for additional shipping ($60 total), if purchased at the time of/in conjunction with any complete shaft order (numbers 3. or 4. above).

2. “Herke arm cuffs” are available for the Equinox complete shafts, in limited numbers (with additional cuff production possible, depending upon customer demand). The cuffs are made of lightweight, black-powder-coated aluminum, of the same design as the “Herke cuffs” sold for various other machines. The cuffs will include the standard, adhesive pad, plus all necessary attachment hardware, and will be shipped direct from Jeff Herke; the cost of the cuffs is:

• $55 shipped (cuff only)
• $75 shipped (cuff, plus a padded neoprene cuff cover)

3. A counter-balancing system will be available soon (within the next couple of weeks). The system will be comprised of a short length of carbon-fiber tube, with a threaded fitting at one end that will allow easy, screw-in attachment to the butt-end of any “counter-balance-ready” (i.e. threaded) upper shaft. The other end of the tube will contain a threaded end cap – which will permit addition or removal of weight to the tube, per customer desire. The standard counterweight tube will be roughly 3” long, and will include 16 oz. of lead pellets, plus a few small ziplock bags (of the same diameter as the inside of the tube) which can be filled with several ounces of lead pellets to facilitate easy addition/removal of weight, as conditions/desires dictate. Shorter or longer-length tubes will also be available, to contain lesser or greater amounts of weight.

PLEASE NOTE that customized fitting advice with respect to the counter-balance system will be available for any customer purchasing the counterweights. This “fitting” service is included as a standard part of the purchase. Through learning about a particular customer’s needs, and by considering “variables” such as user height, typical lower rod adjustment length, coil or coils being used, and the “amount” of counter-balancing that is desired (ranging from a desire to slightly reduce the nose heaviness of the unit, all the way up to perfect, complete balance of even the largest coil), the result will be a customized (and adjustable) counter-balance system tailored to the specific needs of any Equinox user. Cost of the counterweights will be:

• $35 plus shipping, with lead-pellet weighting included
• $25 plus shipping, counterweight tube without the weight (for customers who wish to provide their own weighting)


THANKS!

Steve



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2019 12:11AM by steveg.

Thanks Steve looking forward to giving it a try! Anticipating your next question I'll be a threaded guy

Nice rhyme, Gary!

EVERYONE -- just thought I'd provide an update. Parts arrived today, for the tubes. I'm VERY pleased with how they have turned out! Here is a 6 15/16" counterweight tube for the Minelab Equinox carbon-fiber shaft, which is capable of holding up to 30 oz. weight. Remember, any weight/length of tube can be produced, up to the full 6 15/16", per customer needs/desires.









THANKS to everyone who provided ideas/suggestions during the thread!

Steve

Looks great!

Rick

THANKS, Rick!

Steve

The fact that a counter weight of 1.5 lbs is needed is just a harsh reality that Minelab and basically all manufacturers still don't consider ergonomics a serious issue. I took the Nox for a spin before all this rain and came to the conclusion that the Equinox might be light in weight, but is just miserable to swing for any length of time.

Not all manufacturers have a blind spot where ergonomics are concerned.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

All the Nox needs is an "S" rod. I added a White's center S rod and lower rod and it made a huge difference in the way it swings. I don't understand why folks would make their detector heavier to make it swing better. I understand the whole "better balance" thing but why not keep it light and improve the swing?

Straight rods may be great for the water, but in air they leave much to be desired. Unless the arm rest is elevated above the rod, the axis of force - a line from the arm rest lower portion, through the center of the handgrip and extended to the ground, will touch the ground well ahead of the attachment point of the rod to the coil. This means that the center of mass (roughly the center of the coil) is behind the center of force. This is clearly the case with the Nox.

This means that each reversal of swing will cause rotational energy along the axis of force. This twisting force requires operator energy to oppose. Another effect is the user’s hand gripping the rod handle is forced upward, causing the top of the hand to rub against the bottom of the control housing.

Des D in the same thread as his lengthy review of the Nox on this forum nearly a year ago pointed out that

“...I didn't cover actual manual coil sweeping speed in the Review.

It's effective either fast or slow but, it can't be 'whipped'
Your wrist will twist off if you try it for extended periods....”

He is likely referring to the torque caused by the misalignment I have illustrated by the yellow line I drew in the picture below.

Imagine that the rod is fixed, not to the coil, but to a ball joint mounted on a vertical surface. When you push the handle to one side, the rod will rotate or twist because of the offset between the force on the handle and the resistance at the end of the rod. In actuality, the same thing happens with the Nox. The mass of the coil is connected via the rod, it’s inertia is exerted at the point of connection, that force, being at a plane lower than the handle, causes the entire device, rod, handle and all - to try and rotate about the axis of the coil rod interface.



This was pointed out to me when I showed Dave Johnson in El Paso my new Nox 600. Before I handed it to him he said. “It has a serious ergonomic flaw - hand it to me and I will show you.” It was then he showed me the two different axes of force and explained the vectors.

Of course, Dave is the guy who designed the F-75, the first and I think still the only metal detector with published ergonomic specs. Here are all the specs. Interesting to compare them to what other makers publish as specs. The ergonomic part I have made Bold print.

Specifications

Mechanical: S-rod with electronics housing mounted on handgrip, 3-piecebreakdown, batteries under elbow, 2-way armrest adjustment —forward/backward & around forearm.

Searchcoil: 11” (28 cm) open-frame elliptical double-D, waterproof.

Batteries:4 AA, alkaline (not included).

Weight:3.5 pounds (1.6 kg) with alkaline batteries installed.

Static Balance:force in vertical plane normal to elbow 0.47 pounds (0.22 kg).Varieswith adjustment and user’s stance and arm/hand physiology.

Dynamic Balance:axial moment, 0.29 foot-pounds (0.39 newton-meters). Varies withadjustment and user’s stance and arm/hand physiology.

Sweep Effort:lateral moment 5.2 foot-pounds (7.1 newton-meters).

Operating Principle:VLF induction balanceOperating Frequency:nominal 13 kHz, quartz crystal timing reference13158Hz, 13100Hz, 1043Hz, 12987Hz, 12931Hz, 12876Hz, 12821Hz

Basic Sensitivity:6 x 109root Hertz (detectivity)

Lag Coefficient:78 milliseconds

Reactive Overload:approximately 10,000 micro-cgs units (volume susceptibility)40,000 micro-cgs units with sensitivity < 30.

Resistive Overload:approximately 1,200 micro-cgs units (volume susceptibility) 4,800 micro-cgs units with sensitivity < 30.

Ground BalancingRange:From ferrite to salt, inclusive

DiscriminationGround Suppression:combination of second and third order methods
ID Ground Suppression:third order

Battery Life:Typically 40 hours with high quality alkaline batteries, Estimated 80 hours with nickel oxyhydroxide batteries, Estimated 65 hours with lithium iron disulfide batteries

OperatingTemp Range:4 to +122 degrees F (-20 to +50 degrees C)

OperatingHumidity Range:0-90% non-condensing

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2019 08:46AM by lytle78.

The balance problem is in the location of the battery for two reasons.

1. The battery is too high in relation to the detector making it top heavy.

2. The entire weight of the battery is in your hand which directs the force away from you when you swing actually pulling on your arm. Just hold a 2 pound weight in your hand and and feel the pull when you swing your arm.

The battery belongs under the arm cuff. The handle should be hollow carbon fiber.

.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2019 12:10PM by Badger in NH.

What? Like a Tarsacci? The MDT 8000 is noticeably easier to swing and is exactly as Badger suggests.
I should add I have Steve's shaft and counterweight on my 800 and am enjoying it.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2019 05:58PM by Pasttom.

Rick,

I get what you are saying, and I can see where if you "whip" the rod back and forth quickly, the offset in those two planes would cause some rotational/torque issues. And yes, you'd have to use your hand/wrist/forearm to offset those torsional forces. However, if you are a very slow, methodical sweeper of the coil, which is -- with this machine, IMO, the "proper" swing speed -- then that "torque" issue is minimized.

The larger issue is that which some have alluded to -- and that is there is ZERO weight, essentially, on the "back end" of the Equinox shaft.

If you consider the handle the "fulcrum point," which it is, then what you have is a one to one-and-a-half pound coil, sitting out on the end of a long lever. The coil -- though "relatively light" -- is utilizing leverage to its advantage, so to speak. Gravity acting on the coil, with that force multiplied by leverage, makes the Equinox feel "nose heavy." In other words, the nose heavy feel of this machine is the manifestation of that "leverage" the coil is exerting, in terms of downward force.

To counteract that "nose heaviness," and keep the coil floating just above the ground as you sweep, you must exert upward force, to keep the coil floating (i.e. to offset the downward force exerted on the coil by gravity). It's the muscles of your hand/wrist/forearm, and possibly even shoulder and latissimus muscles, that must exert the counter-force to gravity working on the coil, so that you can keep the coil "floating" just above the ground as you sweep. And worse, you are exerting that upward counter-force right at the "fulcrum" -- the very worst place to do so. You have ZERO leverage, while the coil has the entire leverage advantage. This is a large part of why so many folks feel hand/wrist/forearm and even shoulder pain, when swinging the Equinox. They are having to fight the coil's leverage entirely through muscular exertion...

A more ergonomically proper machine, as has been alluded to in many posts here (in the talk about having the battery in the butt-end of the shaft, etc.), would be one that REDUCES the amount of force that YOU need to exert to counteract the coil's leveraged, downward force. And there are only two ways to do that -- lighten the weight at one end of the shaft (the coil), OR -- add weight to the OTHER end of the shaft (the butt end). The more weight you have in the butt end, and the longer the butt-end shaft length (i.e. the distance beyond the "fulcrum" i.e. the handle), the more that you are using some weighted leverage to YOUR advantage. For every ounce of weight added at the butt-end of the shaft, to "counter" the coil's leverage, the result is incrementally LESS force that YOU must counteract, with your hand/wrist/forearm/shoulder. It's that simple.

Yes, there may be torsional forces, that are increased if you swing the coil really fast. That's a whole different issue of vectors and forces, etc. But to me, that's over-complicating things a bit -- because, for a slow swinger of the coil, the main source of the ergonomic problems -- and in some cases, pain -- is due to trying to offset that relatively "heavy" coil at the end of that long "lever," entirely with your own musculature, with ZERO assistance from any butt-end counterbalancing. A battery in the butt-end of the shaft would help; a metal arm cuff would help, but the bottom line is, there is NONE of that on the Equinox, and that's why the counterweight idea really helps with the ergonomics.

The bottom line is this -- S shaft, straight shaft, whatever the case, detector manufacturers going forward are going to have to deal with the need for counterbalancing, IMO. With modern batteries (which used to be bulky and heavy) becoming smaller and lighter, and with the overall push by manufacturers to "compete" by saying "our machine is lighter than theirs," what is being lost is the fact that a super-light machine is GREAT -- BUT -- NOT at the expense of poor balance. The simple fact is, a FOUR-POUND Equinox, with a pound of weight in the butt end, swings MUCH MORE COMFORTABLY than a 3-pound Equinox, where HALF OF THE TOTAL WEIGHT OF THE MACHINE resides in the coil itself, out there at the end of that long lever...

Steve



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2019 02:06AM by steveg.

I can hold the Equinox with one finger and think to myself.....this is a light detector.

But after swinging for 2 hours my arm aches.

People on the forums say to keep the coil close to your feet. Yes that feels better. But then I am cutting about 30 to 40 percent of my coverage on a wet sand beach. That really isn't what I want.

Factor in the 15 inch coil and the problem just increases to the point of frustration.

I agree. A counter weight needs to be part of the package sold by manufacturers.

Andy......feel free to put that in your next book.

Goodmore -- what you said hits the nail on the head. The EQX is light, no doubt...but...we've been sold a bit of a "bill of goods," through advertising campaigns by the manufactures implying that "lighter is better," and that "overall weight" is the end-all, be-all. It is NOT. It's an easy-to-understand, catchy thing to say "our machine weighs only 2.8 pounds, while the competition's is 3 pounds" or whatever. And like sheep, we all fall in line with that thinking, feeling that if we buy the "lightest" machine, we've bought the "easiest one to swing." The truth is, unfortunately, more complex than simply weighing a detector on a scale to see whose "wins..."

Steve

All the detectors provide a handgrip and an armcuff. Unless I’m built different than everyone else.
The armcuffs how ever thight I strap them on tend to slip, so you grip the handgrip tighter.

Straining the muscles in your arm.

A second strap right above my wrist, pushes my hand onto the grip and lets me pick up the detector without even using my grip.
The underside of the strap is located where the handle attaches to the shaft.

No more straining of muscles to keep my grip. The detector feels like a natural extension of my arm.

Had an equinox and it burnt up my arm in no time.
Had an excalibur with the behind the elbow mod and it required a harness.
Used the X-terra 705 with the large DD coils and it had a moveable counterweight system to compensate for it being nose heavy.

Nowadays I just use that second strap and it takes away a lot of strain, even when swinging a CTX or SDC.
And the occassional stop to take in the scenery :-)

HH
Johnb

Johnb --

Interesting, your use of a second strap. I could see how that would help take some of the "effort" that you need to overcome the nose-heaviness of a machine, and transfer it away from your hand/wrist, and instead move it to the larger muscles of your arm/shoulder, making it less taking on your wrist...

Not sure I've ever heard of or seen anyone using a second strap, to strap their wrist to the handle...interesting.

Steve

I'll try and take a half decent pic of it this evening.
The second strap is also the ideal attachment point for a bungee or a harness. The detector just hangs of it.

I've been racking my brain for a long time why I could easily swing a heavy Stihl brushcutter all day,... and yet a tiny detector weighing peanuts would burn up my arm.
Very sad ergonomics on just about every detector ever made is the answer.

I've got a Stihl RTS harness coming in to do some of the "heavy lifting",... I'll see how that works.

35 years of servicing chainsaws, brushcutters, lawnmowers and Deere's has taken it's toll.
It needs to be comfortable or it gets tossed ;-)

HH
Johnb

The most physically draining detector/hunting combo I have, is my GPX with 15" Spiral coil attached. The coil itself weighs 3 lbs. My shovel for it weighs 5lb 8 oz. The harness system is required for that setup. Throw into the mix that 15 to 17 inch deep targets are common for it...and it don't take long to wear you flat out.

Swinging the Nox or MDT 8000 after hunting with that thing is like feeling an ocean breeze at night.